I hope you wouldn’t mind doing name translations more often from time to time since I’m assuming it takes a little while to complete those lists. I’d love to see ones for the Odyssey monsters, other suitors, and maybe even some of the more underrated warriors from the Trojan War like Pandarus and Cebriones. Apologies if I’m asking for too much, but I do love etymology and Homer!
You are very kind and thanks for understanding but yes it seems these lists have become very popular these days hahaha. I am so happy at how fast and well this previous answer of mine spread!
💬 24 🔁 48 ❤️ 95 · Some of the Greeks: · What are the meanings behind the names of the main Iliad and Odyssey characters? Just curious.
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But sure I could do that! I will try at least to deliver! Hahaha So here goes:
Odyssey Monsters:
Scylla/Skylla-> The Shredder, The One Who Tears Apart, The Mangler
Coming most likely from the ancient verb σκύλλω which means "to tear to shreds" or "to rend" or "to mangle"
(This verb probably gave the modern day name to the "dog" σκύλος from the fact that the canine's teeth and jaws tear apart flesh and also the modern day σκύλα means "female dog" or more fittingly "bitch" as an insult too the same way as in english. I suppose it also helps that Scylla was said to make puppy sounds to lure her prey)
Charybdis-> The One who is Agape and Spits Out
Although the meaning is not 100% certain it seems to come from the verbs χαίω "to be agape", "to be open" and βδέω "to throw up" , "to belch"
Sirens -> The Searing Hot Ones, The Blinding Bright Ones
From the word σειρός which means "scortching hot" and "bright"
(As per my other analysis you can see here Sirens represent the dangerous knowledge that consumes and kills you if you accquire it)
Cyclops -> Round-Eyed
From the Greek κύκλος "circle" and ὄψ "eye"
As per the name Πολύφημος Polyphemus his name means "The One Much Sung About" or "The One with Much Fame" from Greek πολύς "much" or "many" and φῆμις "speech", "talk" "fame"
Laestrygonians -> The Skin Harvesters
Once again not totally clear definition but could be coming from the words λαισήϊον "raw skin with hairs still on" and the verb τρυγάω-ῶ "to gather" or better "to harvest"
Suitors:
So I would assume the Homeric suitors because I totally am not to go through all the list of the hundreds of names suggested by Apollodorous hahahahaha So apart from Antinous, Eurymachus and Amphinomus, Homer names 12 names more (I have made another answer you can see here)
Leiodes -> Smooth-Like, Even-Like
Coming probably from the adjective λεῖος which means "smooth" or "even" while the epithema -δης on occasion means "resembling"
Eurydamas -> The Tamer of Many
From the word εὐρύς which means "wide" or "plenty" and probably the verb δαμάζω which stands for "to tame" or at times "to break" (in the essence of taming)
Le(i)ocritus -> The One Of The Smooth Decision, Smoothly Judged, Even Judge, Smoothly Chosen, Evenly Judged
Possibly from the word λεῖος aka "smooth" or "even" and the verb κρίνω aka "to judge", "to decide" and therefore the word κριτός "the one judged" or "the one chosen"
Agelaus -> The Leader of People
From the verb ἄγω "to lead" and λαός "people"
Amphimedon -> The One of Two Thoughts, Double-Thinker
I had to take a wild guess for this one since the meaning is not perfectly clear. I would estimate comes from the word αμφί "both of two things" or "two things" or "two sides" and the verb μένδομαι "to think" or "to be mindful"
Elatus -> Metal One, Armored One, Fir Tree
Possibly coming from ἐλατός aka "made out of metal"
Same word is used in modern Greek to speak on the fir tree
Eurynomus -> Of Wide Share, Much Distributing
Probably emanating from εὐρύς which means "wide" or "plenty" and νέμω aka "to share" or "to distribute"
Euryades -> Widedly Sung, Much Praised
Once again I had to take a very wild guess because the second part could derive from words that mean "pleasant" or "hated" haha but I think this fits better. coming from εὐρύς "wide" or "plenty" and ᾁδω "to sing" or "to chant"
if it comes from the word ἡδύς aka "pleasant" then his name could be "The One of Many Pleasures" or "Much Pleased"
Demoptolemous -> Warrior Of The People
From the ancient word δήμος aka "people" (in the political essence aka a mass of citizens of a place) and the word πτόλεμος which is an alternative of πόλεμος aka "war"
Peisander -> The Persuader Of Men
From Greek πεῖσις "persuasion" or "obedience" (coming from the verb πείθω "to persuade") and άνδρας "man"
Polybus -> The One With Many Oxen
Most likely from the word πολύς "many" or "much" or "plenty" βοῦς "ox"
Ctesippus -> The One Who Possesses Horses, The One Who Acquired Horses
From Greek κτάομαι-ῶ μαι "to acquire" or "to possess" and ἵππος "horse"
Now for the two names
Pandarus -> Of All Pelts
From Greek πας aka "everyone" or "all" and probably δέρας "fleece" or "pelt"
Cebriones -> The One From Cebrenia
Probably indicating his city or area of origin, named after the river god Cebren (Κεβρήν)
I am not sure what other "underrated warriors" I can include here so if you have something specific in mind I can see what I can do. For example I remember
Hyppothous -> "Fast Horse" or "The One With Fast Horses"
from the word Ἱππος "horse" and θοος "fast"
As always I hope this helps! I am not of course 100% accurate but I think this is a decent attempt
(Check out the end of the post for a goofy sketch I made of him!)
DISCLAIMER — I AM NO GREEK MYTHOLOGY PURIST NOR HISTORIAN! I just got hyperfixated on the guy.
I'm in the EPIC and Hades fandoms so that should say enough. I ADORE seeing different takes on characters and stories!!! I'm going off of what I read in The Odyssey and what I dug up online. (And ngl I'm too lazy to add in specific references on where I found what info, but if you are curious, feel free to ask and I shall provide!)
This is just going to be a post about my own findings, view and headcanons on this guy because he will not get out of my head. Anyways, onto the topic:
Leodes, son of Oenops.
(A "suitor" in The Odyssey.)
- He's a 'mantis'
No, not the bug, but a 'diviner'/'seer'. Not exactly a prophet like Tiresias (although they technically fall under the same category?), he does not seem to have "visions" per se...
I like to imagine Tiresias to be mostly like an "automatic" prophet, getting visions even without conscious volition, meanwhile Leodes needs to REALLY work to find the signs and interpret them.
Because as much as I read he more-so mentioned dealing with (I'm assuming animal?) sacrifices.
(Interesting to note: this is not something I saw in every translation, sometimes he mentions JUST being a soothsayer? In my estonian translation he blatantly calls himself "the seer of sacrifices". Although the manteis who specifically worked with entrails were called 'existpex' so hm, I feel like a lot of this is up to interpretation/a topic of debate.)
He's just kinda like an unlicensed divinator since he wasn't exactly a... Recognized Oracle of anyone. No. Seemingly he's the seer of the suitors, independently hired?
His role is to make sure all ceremonies are done correctly, all the needed steps to respect gods are taken. Supervising, doing stuff "by the book". And then, most importantly, interpreting the outcomes. Possibly then by checking sacrificed animal's livers, looking at the weather, at water, bugs, birds — quite literally anything could be seen as an instrument for divination.
...Which leads into the most important point.
- HE WAS NOT THE ONE TO TELL THE SUITORS ABOUT THEIR IMPENDING DOOM OF ODYSSEUS RETURNING!
That was another prophet named Theoclymenus (The one that Telemachus dragged along)?! HE had visions. Give my man some recognition, don't let Leodes steal his spotlight! Let everyone know Eurymachus laughed at that guy instead of Leodes! Although he probably bullied both anyway.
- Leodes exists in only 2 scenes.
1. Where he's pouting next to the mixing-bowl until Antinous tells him to be the first one to go and try to string the bow.
And then, after failing because of his delicate hands, Leodes goes on a dramatic rant. Basically just: "This contest is hopeless, I’m out. Everyone, stop wasting your lives chasing Penelope and move on to other women. But maybe some of you need to be humbled with this contest, so pop off y'all, you'll learn I'm right."
Then he returns to continue pouting in his spot. BUT ANTINOUS DOES NOT LIKE THAT. He basically goes off like "Leodes!! Stop being dramatic. You failed because your mommy "blessed" you with literally 0 muscle, not because the bow is cursed and we'll all fail... ANYWAY. MELANTHIUS, GET US STUFF TO MAKE THIS BOW MORE EASY TO STRING."
2. The scene where he's begging for mercy.
In quite literally a bloodsoaked room, Leodes runs to hug Odysseus' knees to be like "PLZPLZPLZPLZ SPARE ME, I WAS SO NICE! I STAYED RESPECTFUL— I TRIED WARNING AND STOPPING THOSE OTHER MEN! I PROTECTED THE WOMEN!!! I'M A SIMPLE SEER! DO I DESERVE THE SAME FATE? PLEASE, MERCY!"
But in the end Odysseus just goes, "Uh-huh. Boo-hoo. You probably prayed for me to never return. And you probably just wanted to fuck my wife so. Die." and then beheads Leodes with the sword that once belonged to Agelaus.
First one to try and string the bow, final one to die. Kinda poetic, huh?
- So. Tl;dr. The solid info we get about him is that he is:
1. The mantis/soothsayer/diviner/seer. Most likely using animal sacrifices as his main "tool".
2. He respected women and tried to keep the other suitors in check. He just kinda sucked at it. (Although here we could debate how true his own words are? Since Ody doubts him? But for argument's sake let's say he is truthful, it would line up enough with what Homer described Leodes being like.)
3. He despises all the suitors for being such disrespectful assholes. He sees himself as above them. Purer. Morally cleaner. (But we genuinely have no idea what he could have done since he was not spared in the end, guilty by association at the very least.)
4. Don't forget his "unworn delicate" hands and unmuscular body! (Just the way those traits are worded make me laugh every time, dw Leodes, you don't need to be strong to be loved <3)
Now my favorite part... Time for my own interpretations/theories/headcanons~
- It's very clearly stated that he despises the suitors... Yet when turning to them he refers to them as "friends".
That's what makes me feel like he has 0 desire to be there but is sorta forced to, I imagine cause he was basically hired as a personal mantis for the suitors... And as a personal mantis? You're expected to give as favorable results as possible on readings. So he's forced to stay all polite and agreeable even with them. Yet in turn the suitors must also at least slightly respect him, his role is hard to replace.
- Let him be low-key sassy plz. Passive aggressive sass with the suitors.
- I don't believe he was in love with Penelope at all? I've seen the headcanon that he's one of the only suitors who was genuinely in love with her... And don't get me wrong! That's a very cute take! But I read his character more as someone just clocking in because he has to. While still making sure to be respectful with everyone, protecting the women as much as he could. Kinda just going along with "being a suitor" because Antinous bosses him around and uses him as like a 'test rabbit' constantly. Guilt by association. Even if he meant no harm and tried his best... In the end he still was complicit, even if it was from cowardice.
- Like? The only hint that we have for Leo's love is Ody being like "I'm assuming you didn't want me back so you could have my wife"... Meanwhile all we saw Leodes do was show signs of not wanting to be there. Trying to string the bow because Antinous told him to, putting on a pathetic display and being like "okay, I tried, can we go home now?". And once everyone is dead him just being like "PLEASE! LET ME LEAVE ALIVE, PLEAAASEEEEE!!!".
- Oh, I also totally wanted to go more into detail about this, but it feels more fitting into this theorizing/headcanon territory... Him sitting next to the mixing-bowl has some interesting implications?
So. A mixing-bowl aka a 'krater' is, like the name implies, a large vase where wine was mixed with water. Because in ancient Greece they didn't really drink pure wine, it was an "uncivilized act". And so they mixed it.
This huge vessel was placed in the center of the symposium, which happened after dinner. No wine until you've eaten your veggies, I guess. And then the servants have pitchers they refill at this krater to bring it over to the guests. Makes sense so far.
Now the fun part — Every symposium has someone called a 'symposiarch', an overseer of sorts. Deciding how strong the wine is, making sure nothing gets out of hand and keeping an eye that formalities were taken (like libations, pouring a small amount of wine in honor of deities or mourned souls).
But more often than not the "three-krater limit" wasn't exactly respected and stuff still went a bit wilder than "First for health, second for pleasure, third for sleep" and ended up more in the "fourth for bad behavior, fifth for shouting, sixth for rudeness" territory.
So what I'm trying to get to is that even if Leodes wasn't actually given the duty as the symposiarch (Since the suitors anyway barely gave a fuck about being proper about anything so as if they gave that duty to anyone)... It feels like he kinda took it on himself? Sitting next to the krater?
Of course he sat there because that's where the other men were the least, only having the servants fetching wine every once in a while... But I dunno, pretty funny to imagine this dude pouting in the middle of the room going like "Hmph, I'm the only guy here who's ACTUALLY keeping things in control. I'm keeping track of how much we're drinking. How the wine is being mixed! That the gods are getting their part! Everything! And yet everyone is still so idiotic UGH-". And that could nicely play into him using the liquid in the vase to try and make some readings, oooOOooOoooo~ He's so mysterious, staring into the wine, what does he interpret from it~
- Imagine him already having arrived at the conclusion that Odysseus would be returning... And that he wouldn't be sparing Leodes. Him feeling like a dead man walking. And due to that becoming even more complicit. Just pure hopelessness. That final scene where he goes to beg his king, desperation to live still there but deep down he already knows the answer. Even when his head is on the ground, it still tries to cling on and keep begging... UGH- Just a shockingly impactful death, the description of his head falling is so... Ahhhh!!!!
- He definitely has lots of very "weird" interests. Fascinated by like bugs and entrails, will infodump about them. No, Leodes, infodumping about livers isn't rizz. /lh (It would 1000% work on me ngl)
- I kinda like the idea that he comes from a linage of manteis? So he has learned his craft from his father Oenops.
- Him being hyperaware constantly and concluding things from wildly specific coincidences. Like:
Antinous: *sneezes*
Leodes: A sneeze? Right after finishing your third goblet of wine? On a Saturday evening? In clear weather? You won't be having any children.
- I'm giving him a tragic love story. And nobody can stop me. Him falling in love with a wreath maker outside the palace, but ofc he gets killed by Odysseus before he can really confess anything.
- In my eyes he's a short-king. He deserves a tall girlfriend (or ofc any type of partner, pansexual pride rahh, I just happen to be making a female oc).
Welp. That's about it.
I wanna reiterate — If anyone has different takes on this character, that's a-okay! I like seeing them! I just had so much fun doing this deep-dive and seeing how my own take differed in ways.
There's a 100% chance I got some info wrong, but I did genuinely try my best with my interpretation of stuff... In the end this is just for funsies, DO NOT TAKE MY INFO AT FACE VALUE, OH MY GODS, PLEASE. GO DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!
And if you sat through this whole post, aww, thank you! Here, have a lil sketch~
(Design for Leodes belongs to @messymoonmad !!! And the wreath maker gal is then my OC, Eulalia ♥︎ I so didn't do Leo justice with this sketch but it's the thought that matters, right?)
