#mob theorizes

[mobthoughts]

alright so new wisdomverse update is out and i got food for one theory of mine(seems like its my turn to theory post after the update lol)

alright so in a few previous streams Lin mentioned that fable was the healer among the zeldas, due to her healing legend with her magic in one of her games(i think it was oracles but cant be sure here) but she had never mentioned how she healed... until now

fable has the life spell, specifically it was created by one of her ancestors and i think i know who: Downfall Kasuto

we dont know a lot about Kasuto, we barely even saw him however what we do know does point out to this being the case, Kasuto being a spell caster is supported by his Downfall Timeline title being the "Scholar King" as confirmed by lin in this post this is supported by his appearance in time's flashback in TSWK where time describes him as having a scholarly build if not for the muscle he ended up gaining after being drafted, Lin also mentioned him being her personal ship with lullaby, i personally wouldnt be surprised if he ends up with Elegy

now why does this point towards him being the inventor of the Life spell? well there is one thing i havent mentioned about kasuto yet, wich is his appearance on Lin's timeline for wisdomverse,

now for those who havent seen the wisdomverse timeline(go check it out) but Lin organized it the following way, the Zelda and Link for the game on one side and the other side its the game's name, and a section with the allies under FT and a section with the enemies under VS, Lin did explain what Dawn was doing in AOL with her saying that Dawn was teleporting the potions that refill your magic to rulie's general Location to help him, but she left the role Kasuto plays obscured

my guess? Kasuto is the wizard... no not that one the other one in the present that helps you by teaching you spells

as for how he survived all the way to AOL Times despite being from the era of the timeline split? well thats the neat part:he didnt, he is a ghost wich is why he sprite is half translucid(you can see the lines of the bricks behind him), how he somehow is present in kasuto town despite it being overrun by moas and destroyed and why he magically disappears after teaching rulie a spell

[mobthoughts]

i havent talked about this yet but if i dont talk about it now i'm probably not going to get the chance anytime soon but from a wisdomverse perspective i find it fascinating that octavo is capable of using 5 elements similar to dot

each of the champions he creates is inbued with one of the same 4 elements she uses (gleeokenspiel-lightning/wind, bass guitarmos knights-fire, gohmaracas-earth and wizzroboe-ice/water) wich are also the 4 elements that four uses to forge the four sword and COH treats music as its own element, going as far to give it its own special effect (if you get hit by sound attacks from music wizzrobes or knights with a guitar you get deafened) similar to how dot also has light magic, i like to think that this is because while dot uses the elements as a lens to focus unkeyed and diffuse magic, octavo can tune the instruments so he can conduct the elemental magic trought them like a maestro conducting a orchestra

he also seems to be very capable of enchanting items given how:1 he made the golden lute by enchanting it with the threads of fate and that he creates the bosses from those instruments(yet another thing he seems to have in common with dot) and since we have no idea where those instruments came from i like to think that he also was the one to make them similar to how four is a smith and thus makes his own stuff

TLDR:Octavo is a massive four and dot fanboy, he is terrible at hiding it and would absolutely be starstruck if dot was summoned by echo or if the chain stumbled into echo's era

[mobthoughts]

honestly i feel like rambling about artemis's sheik

because playing hyrule warriors is actually making me see the vision behind what is probably the worse disguise in the zelda timeline :P

ok so we know that the sheik thing is extremely recent for artemis, we know this not just because of impa's utter confusion over sheik's existance, its important to point out that this impa is the leader of the sheikah and thus anyone who would be teaching artemis the ways of the sheikah would have to go trought her, not only that but artemis and impa are extremely close, we see this in the first cutscene of the game, when artemis wakes up from a nightmare with impa by her side so if any sheikah would be artemis's teacher it would be her

i already talked about who i think artemis's teacher was in this post with @tetraswings because i really like the idea of artemis summoning lullaby and her being artemis's teacher, tho being unable to fight alongside her because artemis's not being particularly good at summoning other zeldas (even at current wisdomverse she is the second worst at keeping other zeldas in her era, imagine then) and summons taking a toll on the host body(tho said toll seems to diminish with skill) wich would put artemis in more danger in a real combat scenario and chalked the glaring issue of "there are other sheikah alive in this era who would not buy artemis being a sheikah menber to lullaby having little to no context over artemis's era sheikah and artemis being way too startstruck by getting ninja lessons from one of her most prominent ancestors and getting this cool mantle passed on to her to realize that maybe that mantle doesnt fit her current time, but a thing that didnt really make sense to me at the time was sheik's main weapon:the godess's harp

you see the godess's harp is a sacred relic of the royal family dating it all the way back to hylia, sky and sun hyrule's founders and its patron godess,having the harp on her person should be a dead giveaway of artemis's identity In OOT Requiem's Sheik does carry the harp in order to teach Time music, but he carries it hidden only really showing it to teach time a song and then putting it away, if lullaby does carry the harp its probably in a similar way or she doesnt carry it at all heck they probably summon the harp like we see sheikah summoning things in BOTW/TOTK or wizzro summoning a rapier when disguised as artemis

artemis on the other hand?

she carries it, in full view

something that only makes it more incriminating once you consider that in her dream sequence at the start of the game, artemis is seen playing the harp for fun so she probably does enjoy playing the harp

so why would she even bring the harp if its such an obvious giveaway?

and my opinion on it is simple:artemis and lullaby didnt have a choice

as i said before:the only time artemis could have been trained into becoming sheik would be if she was away from impa, otherwise she would have recognized her, given how close the two are there is only one real moment when artemis could have been inducted into sheikah tradition:Hyrule's castle fall at the end of the tutorial(wich is conveniently when she disappears)

wich means this must be the first time artemis and lullaby met, artemis accidentally summoning lullaby while impa and link were busy with king dodongo and they leaving the battlefield together, in order to hide themselves

however:artemis's fighting style with the rapier is extremely dependant on light magic and especially the bow of light (i'm not kidding btw one of her combos has her shoot a volley of 6 arrows, even in the game's start atleast 3 of her moves use the damn bow), wich is a really good way to say "princess zelda is here), and of course they dont have much time, they barely escaped hyrule castle its only a matter of time until Cia finds out where they are so artemis will need a weapon that doesnt immediatelly give her away especially because due to: 1only being there for a limited amount of time and 2:her presence taking a toll on artemis lullaby probably cant train her as well as she would want to

in fact given the sheikah's tribesman pre battle description...

artemis didnt even have a month in before fighting rejoining with the army, she simply didnt have time to properly master what lullaby was teaching her

however, teaching artemis music with the godess harp would be far faster, in order to prepare artemis for the coming war even if it came a bit at the cost of her disguise so thats why they needed the harp(wich becomes a massive part of sheik's hyrule warriors moveset)

anyway wisdomverse by @linderosse

[mobthoughts]

so time's refrain showed how lullaby got her nickname(It was from her mom after she learned her lullaby early and it was really cute) and that got me thinking if there is some kind of culture among the zeldas for official nicknames or something like that

because think about it, Zelda is the tradicional name for a hylian princess, this means that every female heir from the royal family would be named Zelda, Dawn and Echo prove that 2 Zeldas can be alive at the same time and if every female heir is named Zelda then i wouldnt be surprised if a scenario where 2 zeldas co exist is somewhat common(mom and daughter and maybe in an extreme scenario a grandma a daughter and a grandaughter)

so they could go by the number (like zelda the first, zelda the second etc) but that sounds way too formal wich might make casual conversations weird AND the number scheme isnt trustworthy as tetra's name is implied to be tetra because she is "princess zelda the 4th"(lin stated that its because she is the 4th zelda since the flood in the nicknames post) and echo is stated to be "princess zelda the 1st" wich makes NO sense considering there are atleast 4 zelda before her

we do know that the middle name of the royal family changes over time(and since my name is pretty common people sometimes refer to me by my middle name)... but look at the middle names of these people

yeah i'd rather be called togore in my day to day life :P

so it is very much possible for the Zeldas to adopt some kind of nickname for the sake of convenience, maybe it even became some kind of cultural thing like a rite of passage, lullaby herself is stated to be quite proud of getting a nickname to differentiate herself from elegy and requiem

so the zelda naming scheme in universe probably looks something like "zelda "nickname"(middle name) hyrule"

wisdomverse and time's refrain by @linderosse

[mobthoughts]

I love the theme of Echo stumbling over backwards into having some ridiculously good continuity and i was talking a shower and realized she did It again

For context among the items in COH there is the rito feather

Now the obvious implication of the rito feather is well the existance of a rito tribe in Echo's era

A rito tribe that we never see in any of the downfall era games...

Wich is what i would say If It werent for these guys

Meet:the fokka, AoL's hardest enemies and some of Echo's fiercest defenders who exist solely in the great palace and probably the rito tribe that goes unseen in EOW/COH

Something extremely interesting given How they arent the only aspect of the great palace to bê foreshadowed in COH, as you can also see statues of the thunderbird in the temple of storms

[mobthoughts]

Why do you think people get a Keyblade? What marks a strong heart?

In Sora’s case, he kind of happened to be in the right place at the right time, while both Riku and Kairi had a Bequeathing — even if Kairi’s was accidental

I tend to think of a strong heart as someone with a lot of determination, myself :) what’s your thoughts?

thats a interesting question, its never explained how or why do people get keyblades beyond bequeathing and i doubt that sora being chosen for being on the right place at the right time is a unique event, daybreak town was filled with young keyblade wielders and i think thats way too many for the MoM and the foretellers to have bequeathed all of them and other than characters hitchhiking other characters's habilities to wield keyblades throught their connection (roxas and xion with sora and probably vanitas with ventus) being lucky is the only way we saw happen(tho one of the few things we knew about ML was that it would play a bit with the concept of keyblade wielding bloodlines) :P that being said having a strong heart certainly has to do with it and probably has something to do with how good you are at it as well

as for having a strong heart while determination certainly plays a role into it i do think that there is something more important than it when determining one's strenght of heart:the hability to connect with others

this is a major theme in KH(well duh "my friends are my power" is often quoted in the series) but its also something that was shown with most if not all strong keyblade wielders, both Xehanort and Sora are shown to have a great hability to connect with others with xehanort often exploiting said connections to further his plan(the organizations, Eraqus, ansem's apprentices, etc) even in dark road he is shown to get along well with the entire class before everything went wrong, and i dont think i need to explain sora right? but even without counting them the bonds to others are often shown to affect one's hability to wield the keyblade, with certain characters(mostly riku tho ansem, anti form sora and the darklings from KHUX probably also apply) even going as far as to lose their hability to wield a keyblade as their heart grows weaker and darkness begins to control them(while strong hearts seemingly having the hability to controll darkness instead as noted by riku, terra rage form sora and notoriously:xehanort)

Riku loses his keyblade to sora when he is left alone as sora regains his friends in KH1, he doesnt even get a keyblade back until he is reunited with sora and kairi in the end of KH2

Terra is isolated by Xehanort(both in a literal way as xehanort 1v1 terra in the pillar while vanitas deals with aqua and ven and in a psychological way by sowing discord amongst the wayfinder trio) before getting norted, and its his connection so aqua and ven that allows both him to keep his will bound to his armor, and return to his body after being trapped in the guardian for over 10 years

Roxas gives riku Oblivion due to Xion's interference, this almost kills him until riku decides to allow roxas to get it back for some reason(he was on the ground riku why did you let him get oblivion back?!? XD)

the only time where we see sora truly powerless(ever since i think KH1) is when he witnesses his friends dying to the heartless tide wich leads to him having a mental breakdown, this does not affect riku as he knows that if they survive this they can get their friends's hearts back

its aqua's connection to terra and ven that keeps her sane in the realm of darkness for over 10 years(and she would have made it if ansem hadnt pushed her over the edge... literally)

the chains that Terranort uses to bind aqua ven and sora in their confrontation are stated by himself to be their bonds wich they will never be able to break

vanitas who could be a exception to the rule seems to feel the pain of his own unversed as they are struck down(i think that was only shown in non canon material so dont quote me on that one)

even in KHUX, ava's mission is to pick keyblade wielders with potential and enlist them into the dandelions who were above the divisions of unions at the time

and of course as mentioned before:weaker hearts seem to have a harder time dealing with darkness thus becoming heartless easier and we never saw a heartless with a keyblade(other than riku-ansem, but ansem was using riku's body in that ocasion :P)

so my conclusion:while having a strong heart probably deals with several factors(Determination, quantities of light and darkness and etc) being able to connect to others and have people by your side is absolutely a sign of a strong heart

[mobthoughts]

Theory:why echo lost the power of the trirod

hey so the hero is defeated made me think about things again... and i think that i figured out why the tri rod isnt working anymore

so for context:after echo woke up the tri rod stopped working this has been said a few times but the most prominent is this post, echo still has bind but her hability to create echoes(and probably her spells like din's fire and nayru's love) have gone away

so i originally had assumed that the reason why the tri rod isnt working anymore was a similar reason as to why dawn cant summon and echo cant summon or be summoned, and of course things would be revealed on echo and dawn's eventual chapter however i dont think that anymore

so its fairly obvious that the tri rod and the tris are connected to the triforce, specially when you consider what happens in ALBW was probably Null enjoying the oportunity of the lorulean triforce being destroyed to just wreck the place(with this eventually spiraling into EOW after the triforce was restored), however echo is not the only zelda with powers connected to the Triforce, there are 2 others with triforce related powers due to carrying the full triforce within themselves, those being Dot and most importantly here:Flora

Flora specifically is important for 2 reasons:lin has talked about echo being a narrative foil to flora(i talked more about this in this post(god thats some old art, its rougher than i remenber :P)

and 2:similarly to echo flora also went throught a powerless phase, and lin actually talked about this recently on stream(i dont remenber wich one tho it was either drawing or one of the recent wild era streams), more specifically she explained how on wisdomverse its flora failing to balance the triforce's aspects, more specifically while she demonstrates wisdom throught her reasearch and does everything in her power to try and help her kingdom and the champions she notably lacks courage to stand up against her father and begrudginly goes along with his idea that praying will help her awake her sacred powers, and its not until they are surrounded by the guardians and link finally falls tired and wounded that she finally gathers the courage to stand up for herself thus awakening her power

we can also extend this logic to Echo as her powers also have a direct connection to the triforce and analyze her journey throught these lens

in EOW we see echo showcase wisdom in the way she handles the multiple crysis around the kingdom usually learning what she can around the places where the rifts are and often helping or guiding the characters around the area, and honestly i'd argue that the first and second halves of the game are about courage and power respectively, the first half of EOW has rifts as an unknowable phenomenon and echo is pretty much standing alone against her kingdom due to the impostors and the second half of EOW has echo killing an eldritch god, those are self explanatory

she doesnt use the tri rod in COH but i'm including it anyway as she also demonstrates all aspects there, she avoids direct confrontation with octavo a the beggining of the game, choosing to escape the castle and rally her forces before the battle, fights off numerous hordes of enemies and a few bosses herself alongside completely curbstomping ganon and rises up against octavo immediatelly after fleeing the castle not letting anything be it octavo's warnings, his forces a future ganon or even death stand in her way

things take a big change after the great decline tho

echo still demonstrates her wisdom, both serving as a guide to dawn and sharing her ancient knowledge about the world and as shown in this statement by hyrule she certainly still shows her power

after the great decline, a major part of her character is her depression and longing for her original era, but most notably:she seems to be desperately clinging to dawn as a reason to live, and as she puts it herself:if anything happens to her i will kill everyone and then myself

echo lost her courage, her ability to pick herself up after she gets knocked down like it was shown in her previous games because this time she really did lose everything and there no way she can ever get back to the way it was, she lost her will and now desperately clings to dawn in order to not kill herself not that following dawn is a bad thing(14 year old dawn is probably better than every hylian king that flora met lol) but echo's dependency on dawn is definitly not a healthy place to be in, and with that loss she also lost her powers as the trirod stops working

wisdomverse by @linderosse