#obtheory

[dark-delphine]

Can we quickly go back to the exchange between Delphine and the Messenger in 4x10? Because there was a moment in particular that still stands out. 

Messenger: ‘His altruism saved you’. 

Delphine: ‘That wasn’t what it was’. 

Going back to last year, I interpreted this exchange to signify a shift for Delphine, one that ultimately came down to her saying, ‘love saved me’. To be honest, it could still very well be the case, and I mean, I wouldn’t complain because that’s some ‘pit of the soul’ kinda love right there. 

But now after having watched 5x01, I’m feeling differently about that exchange. To me, in 4x10, Delphine was already rather defiant and dismissive of the Messenger but in 5x10, I feel like her animosity towards him was tenfold. And after watching this episode, it’s so apparent that there is something big going on with her there, something that she seems extremely conflicted, concerned and consumed by. 

So now, I’m thinking perhaps something was used on Delphine in her treatment, something that she is perhaps afraid of. She clearly believes in the science happening around her, she says it’s real, but she clearly does not believe in the cause. Think back to that exchange with the little girl seeking ‘The Fountain’ to cure her cancer. The look on Delphine’s face was troubled and we’ve seen that kind of expression before especially in instances where she has been burdened by information she is made to keep secret. Whatever this ‘Fountain’ is, whatever it is set to achieve, (prolongevity, eternal youth, perfect health etc etc), she is clearly not on par with it. 

So, now going allllll the way back to that 4x10 exchange, I feel as though Delphine may have been, against her consent, treated by science that she does not believe in or that she has come to discover can be damaging. 

The line ‘his altruism saved you’, implies Westmoreland saved Delphine to no advantageous gain of his own; that, by definition is what altruism is. How can we believe that though? At first I assumed altruism might have be the case because she is somehow directly linked to him, through lineage or something but it doesn’t add up; when she is summoned to meet him, her demeanour shifts instantly to one of skepticism and perhaps fear. Rather, what Westmoreland probably considers altruism, is in fact his definition of perfecting the human race; a - this isn’t just for me, this is for us all - kinda thought process. It isn’t a matter of saving one individual life but rather, selflessly sharing and applying his science to bettering mankind. Delphine’s interpretation though, is that he has used his science, his methods, his rationale on her, against her wishes, to propel his science further outwards. That in itself, is not an altruistic gesture. That, is robbing her of humanity, autonomy and freedom. 

So, yeah. To me, there is absolutely something off about Delphine already. Something is tearing her apart and I’m wondering if perhaps, she is now a part of this control group and this study that intends to achieve life extension. 

[itsasunnylife]

Mrs. S

After analyzing the clips from the 60sec spoiler, I think she will die in this final season saving Sarah and Helena; the twins. This is the only way that I would accept her being killed off.

[fangirllikewhoa]

So, here’s the deal about oppression.  It’s insidious.  And we, as queer folk are often asked, or even unconsciously choose, to be complicit in our own oppression.  One of the ways this happens is that we become spokespeople for an entire community.  And we sometimes feel like we have to come to the aid of the very people who are oppressing us because maybe they just happen to be oppressing us a little bit less than that other guy.

So, sweet Jordan’s response here rings so hollow for me, and I actually feel bad that he was put in a place (or took the place) to talk about this as the “token” gay on the panel.  In fact, I feel like he fell into a trap that he, himself pointed out in an earlier interview (at 1:35) in which he roasts a reporter for saying “as a gay man, I’d be offended” by replying “that’s not fair, because you’re not and you don’t understand.” Because I don’t think he understands fully the way lesbians get played for ratings constantly.  I hate to break it to him, but it’s not an attack to critique the Bury Your Gays trope.  ESPECIALLY when your writers have acknowledged its existence.

You don’t get a free pass just because you’ve created characters who are more than their sexualities.  In fact, that’s what makes it all the more heartbreaking.  The creators made a multi-faceted character that fans grew to love, who ALSO WAS QUEER.  And having her be multifaceted and not having her sexuality be “the most important thing about her.” is important, but guess what?  In this particular character’s arc, especially this season, it WAS the most important thing about her, because that’s how she was written. The viewers are told that all of the sacrifices she’s making- the drastic personality change, etc. is because of her love of Cosima. 

So yeah, I’m going to go ahead and critique that through this lens, because that’s how the writers wrote her.  She wasn’t a scientist who happened to be gay this season, she was a queer woman, on the verge of a mental break (also a trope), trying to live up to a promise she made to the woman she loved. That relationship was central to all of her decisions. I have to consider it as the most important thing about her in this moment, because it was the driver of her character.

I still believe that Delphine will live, because I simply cannot fathom that they’d be so tone-deaf as to treat the trope- that they’ve even acknowledged is a thing-and their writing choices so flippantly.  I don’t want them to be dudebros of that caliber, not when they’ve given us so many strong female characters. 

I don’t mind it being a mystery. Truly. I get that the show needed a cliffhanger.  Hell, I understand scheduling issues too.  But it’s not that we’re “up in arms”- which comes across as really condescending.  This was a moment John could have said something like “It’s great that the audience connects so much with Delphine, especially after the season she’s had.  It’s a testament to the great acting of Evelyne Brochu that the fans are so upset. We are obviously not going to spoil our own cliffhanger, but we appreciate the passion around the question. It’s going to remain a mystery until next season.”  OR SOME SUCH SHIT. And I would have applauded.

[commandercosima]

Theory about Delphine’s “death”

I’m not good at putting my thoughts into words but I’ll try to make something understandable. First of all, when you want to kill a person you shoot some vital organ. You either aim for the head or the heart. Delphine’s shooter shot her in her belly, which I think was a way to make her weak for other purpose, as kidnaping or something like that. That means that the person who was trying to kidnap her was weaker and couldn’t take her without injuring her first. This makes me think that Shay was the one that shot Delphine, but not to kill. Shay is short and even with treinament i’d be hard for her to kidnap someone like Delphine. Also, Delphine totally knows her shooter and she asks “What will happen to her?” worried about cosima and that wouldn't make sense if it was other person than Shay. I don’t know if she is Castor, Neolution or other thing that will appear in S4, but I do think that she is something and she needs to take some information from Delphine. I won’t guess what kind of information or for who she is working because this show is unpredictable but I’m pretty sure Delphine is not dead. Anyway, I know that this is not well written and thought but it’s my theory and I’ll believe in it untill they show a body

[niehausnautilus]

I think I have to agree when Cophine shippers say “Shay isn’t right for Cosima”. There are clearly ways in which Shay and Cosima can bond that Cosima and Delphine don’t. Cosima was showing signs of thinking more outside the confines of science and a definite turn towards a more spiritual outlook - that’s where Shay can help Cosima understand those feelings and ideas more.  However, what we all forget is that Cosima is verging on (perhaps is) what modern society would call a scientific genius and her love for science has been portrayed time and time again. Although Cosima is starting to explore spiritual ideas, she does so in a methodical, scientific way and is systematic in the way that she studies these thoughts. Cosima’s very existence is also wrapped up in science, her life revolves around science in a way that would be difficult for Shay to understand (having come from a holistic point of view).  Delphine shares the scientific passion that Cosima has (and also understands the processes in which Cosima was brought into the world and the illness that Cosima suffers from) and I doubt that, ultimately, Shay’s hollistic ideology and lifestyle will be able to match up.  

That being said, I do think that Cosima did need to explore the non-scientific thoughts that she has and therefore Shay does serve a very real and importance purpose in Cosima’s development but ultimately, I think Cosima’s passion for science will bring her back to Delphine. 

[free-eden]

I think the reason helena's tag number is a different arrangement is because that is her tag number according to the proletheans so they must have a different system than dyad so helena and Sarah's tag numbers according to dyad are most likely different and I'm guessing probably very close to Kira's because she's Sarah's daughter and Helena's probably really similar to Sarah's

Yeah, it definitely seems like there's some discrepancy between the Prolethean system of tag numbers and the DYAD one. Kira's DYAD tag number is 615c33, so could it be possible that Sarah's is similar but with a 'b' instead of a 'c'? Cosima said in season 1 that there was no taxonomy for the offspring of a clone, so it seems entirely possible that Kira's tag number was created from the base of Sarah's. Going off of this logic, if 615b33 is indeed Sarah's DYAD tag number, then (based on my reversed tag theory) Helena's would be 33b516. Of course, I could be entirely wrong about all of this - just throwing my theory out there!

[free-eden]

When did Kira meet Cosima? She knows about Cosima and brings her up a lot but I don't remember Kira ever meeting or interacting with her...

That's the interesting thing... she's never met Cosima! And yet she knows what she looks like (as evidenced by her drawing of her "aunties") and is willing to do whatever it takes to save her. I feel like the two of them must be biologically connected somehow - perhaps through Kira's DNA, especially since Kira appears to be the key to the cure. Sarah was never intended to have a child since the clones were made barren by design, so is it possible that she could have somehow passed an extra genetic sequence down to Kira that made her biology more similar to that of Cosima? Just a thought...

[gedankenstroeme]

You guys, who is going to be the next Leekie??? Ethan? Delphine? Cosima? A new character?