#paladingate

[floresmoth]

got so angry about vol2 and the finale that i started revenge writing a season 5 rewrite… stay tuned i guess?

[nightnut]

Hot take: milkvan kiss in 3x01 is a corrupted byler kiss p. 1

(corruptiongate: part 2, part 3, part 4)

And before you say that I’m out of my gd mind, check this 👇

1. The unicorn

So I’ve been examining El’s things looking for cg details, and one of the first thing I see is a horse? Even a unicorn, which is horsegate, right? (Next to it there’s El’s dictionary, which is fair, and also some cassettes that mb should be studied more.)

But what can it symbolise you might wanna ask! And I want to thank you for this question because this unicorn is literally the first and big detail that we see right away, having such a meaning:

(Which emphasises that in the 80s it would definitely make sense to have it in the shot as a symbol.) Okay, cool 🥲 Let’s move on.

2. Mike’s photo from Halloween

having no connection to El whatsoever, but guess to whom Halloween might have a connection (something something crazy together). Why would El have exactly this photo on her table? Is it the only photo Mike has which he could give her? But guess who would have it logically if they dated ever since? Hmm.

3. The silver cat! Not sure if it feeds but it’s definitely there. The silver cat that feeds when blue meets yellow in the west. If it is originally a byler scene, would it mean the blue met yellow, and having a silver cat then would make sense? And guess what else is there: 1) another horse? 2) a heart with a rainbow 3) DRAWINGS

(Also a small details is that two last names on the shot are Russian, and even Michael Park could be Russian. Not sure if it’s important, but take it anyway as a 3s Russian-plot detail)

4. Now the most intriguing part

Firstly I noticed a mask that El probably took from Kali, which is an interesting detail itself, however what is even more interesting is semi-transparent editing of THE DRAWING OF PALADIN. We never focus on that, it’s never actually in the shot, but it is. It is hanging on the wall but it was shot playing with our attention. (Check the left side of the shots.)

Now tell me pls. Why THE FUCK would Mike gift her a drawing of Paladin? Or do you want to tell me that El is a person who actually draws? And she drew Paladin and left it on her wall? That she knows who that is?

Guys, honestly, unfortunately, I don’t know shit about D&D world, and only the sword gave it to me in this shot. But do you actually want to tell me that there’s another explanation why this drawing even exists in that room?!

4. The picture from Mike’s basement.

Could be a nice detail for milkvans, like, oh, look, he gave it to her!

But… do you really think Mike’s parents would give away a giant picture to… where exactly? To the girl about whom they don’t even know? That Mike would take it out of his basement? The most weird gift for 14 year olds. If Mike really wanted to do something nice to or for El, he could do anything but this, to be honest. It just doesn’t make sense. And I’ll tell you in the end of the post what does…

5. THE CLOTHES COLOURS 💛💙

Mind you, it is the same season where Mike and Will are associated with blue and yellow strongly! And watching this scene today, I got puzzled again, like, why El is even in that blue t-shirt?

And pay attention to the green wall of the room:)

When I rewatched this scene now a couple of times, trying to see every detail and REALISED THAT PALADIN WAS FUCKING THERE I had such a revelation OMG.

It’s not El. Never was!!!

And the blue t-shirt is Will’s t-shirt!!

Now, drawings on the table are of course Will’s drawings. The silver cat, the yellow and blue t-shirts, the fucking GREEN wall — all of it symbolising byler! And that damn picture hanging, again, initially in the basement… All the drawings on the wall — what does it remind you of??? Maybe Will’s drawings in the basement?

Doesn’t it give Will and Mike kissing there, Mike having Will’s drawing of him as Paladin, and the heart with a rainbow, like the one being there since season 1, is still there and never was taken out like the big picture never did?

I mean, technically, it’s another heart pic, but the concept is the same, and why wouldn’t it be corrupted this way too?

now if you have a question how it is possible: my nowadays theory is that ST got corrupted between s2 and s3 (same place where Tales will take part), changed the vibe in s3 and ever since have been getting flayed more and more; s2 ends with the Snowball leading to Hawkins being turned upside down, and the only thing that it was associated before was that the UD is still there, which was not the news. However, for some reason they showed us that turning. For showing evil they didn’t need to turn anything in the end of s1. And, as a hint, in 3x01 we even have Will’s clothing matching s5 dial’s arrow.

So, I believe, all these details from 3x01 tell that it was a basement byler kiss in the basement. Looks like it indeed was a double date with lumax in the cinema. And probably even Snowball happened the other way.

That would also explain side-lining Will in season 3 because he was lwk performed by El that season…

So am I right about all this? Fuck knows. But how can it have all this and mean nothing??? You don’t know? Me neither. Now, if you would excuse me, I need to go out and scream my head off. Have a good byler, y’all! We deserve it like no one else

[ theory posts: Part 2 about music and butterflies; Part 3 about a Bad parent Jim Hopper + bonus post about the drawing of Paladin + more corruptiongate key posts ]

[floresmoth]

me when i put the conformitygate burger on the plate with the birthdaygate fries and the churchgate milkshake and the flickergate napkin with the paladingate chocolate pie all in my fic what then

[nightnut]

Corruptiongate p.3: Bad parent Jim Hopper, byler field scenes and Will taken to the Lab (p.1, p.2 + bonus, p.4)

It’s a theory based on cues hinting that m11 is byler in s3, the idea of which is the show being built upon corrupted memories. There are more significant posts revealing what exactly was altered (links will be below), but the ones based on El’s character, explaining cues around her, are its base.

Have you ever felt that Hopper yelling at El the way hatred for him feels with the whole body is in the heaviest way ooc after everything he’s done by this time? That’s because it’s not Hopper.

If you know corruptiongate, then you probably know how suspicious El’s room in s3 m11 scenes is. T85 didn’t make it ‘easier’, turning orange objects (as if orange being Vecna’s colour wasn’t enough) into pink and placing the bird poster in two rooms at once (in part 1 I theorised what it can mean, but I’d genuinely recommend to keep up with all three main posts).

What stood out for me this time is that s2 room looks nothing like s3 room (as if s3 room is not real at all): the walls are not green, the curtains are not yellow, and even El’s bedside table is different.

And, as much as t85 timeline is questionable (pretending to be post s2, while it heavily feels like post s5), I mind you: if anything in T85 even is real, it wouldn’t make sense for s2 to end at Snowball in the end of December with no plans for Hop and El to renovate her room, and in two weeks to have a fully new look for it (as T85 takes place in the middle of January). And even if we dismiss t85 as it’s still not a continuation of s2, but of s5, take into consideration just the og show and imagine that even though they had half a year till July to do that, it still doesn’t seem reasonable, as El lived with Hop for almost one year, they prepared the place for it, but they never coloured the walls and didn’t have a reason to do it urgently for s3.

Now I need to take you back to the opening scene of the episode: it has a parallel that I caught later in the notorious scene of the fight between El and Hopper. Let’s check how Will is doing (not great).

… your little what trip? your little field what? 👀

1️⃣ In the show playing a lot with a topic of drug trips, is what Will experienced at the field anything but a trip 💨? (yes, that’s trippygate over here)

2️⃣ Who are we even looking at this scene? Who is Hopper speaking to? Is it Will?

Let’s move for a second to the way Hopper grounds El: he forbids her to watch TV. The show playing (and the shot implies that she likes it) is Cheers… who else, as we know, loves this show?

Doesn’t it seem reasonable that out of all kids Will would be the one loving Cheers, bc he used to watch it with his mother?

I started the post claiming that this is not Hopper. You know, as many times as I watched this scene, I always tried to excuse Hopper as his arc is surely constructed to make us want to trust him, and bc of that this scene feels like a whiplash.

I get that people can lose their temper, even (or especially lol) when it comes to their kids, and we know that he’s so nervous for El etc… It seems like we have every reason to understand him even here, but his anger looks too beastly, not normal at all, so, the way he behaves throws us off.

I caught the feeling of something being wrong about Hopper behaving like this again this time with a thought yelling in my head “this can’t be him”, so I started rewatching trying to understand how it is even possible that it’s not him… That’s when I found the field line. That’s when I suddenly understood that the kid kept in the cabin is Will, and the bad parent is not Jim Hopper, but Lonnie Byers, known for suspicions in kidnapping his own son since the very beginning of the show.

There is a theory that Lonnie was the one to take his kid to the Lab for money, as we know that he’s very capable of it as he infamously known for not giving a damn about his family at all. And he’s also of course disgustingly homophobic.

We know Will’s powers are “innate”, so he was a person of interest for the Lab: it also explains all the supernatural stuff El does in the scene.

Now, remember the weird drawing of Paladin that El had in her s3 room that made no sense (weird bc she doesn’t care and knows nothing about D&D, has no idea who Paladin is, doesn’t draw as good as Will, there’s no reason for her to have this depiction of Mike at all)? If we consider those s3 scenes as Will’s corrupted memories, it suits perfectly well: he lives with Lonnie (not all El’s scenes are his, but at least a specific one is) and has a drawing of Mike as Paladin on his wall. Lonnie hides Will, doesn’t let him leave, the only thing that can support Will is a drawing of Mike.

Looks like Will escaped from the Lab/was taken back by Lonnie, but Lonnie doesn’t want to be caught, and his supernatural kid is his pain in the ass. He still has contacts of the Lab though, and he still threatens Will to take him back:

Meanwhile, he manipulates or even truly believes that he’s doing something good for them both, Will included: let’s say he’s the shittiest parent, but probably still thinks that Brenner is evil, worse than him, so he explains himself, let’s Will know that he keeps him safe, but also…

confirms that he is in danger too. Will’s being found by anyone is not in his interests.

Maybe Lonnie doesn’t hate Will to the point where he wouldn’t feed him, for example (and that’s where good-parenting lines saving Hopper’s character in this scene build not pure evil-but still disgusting bad father Lonnie Byers), maybe he found out something he didn’t like about the Lab/stopped getting money from there, and decided to take Will back. But he surely despises his own son enough to do egregiously awful things to him (still believing that teaching and feeding him in that environment is enough to demand gratefulness and obedience).

I hope the idea of Will being into Cheers makes even more sense now as it’s literally the show he used to watch with his mother, when everything was alright, and which now helps him to feel safe and to remember the way life was going before.

Now that we look at Hop and El seeing Lonnie and Will, this line also reads (and hits) differently:

Will, not being able to see Mike for over a year (almost a year in the cabin and god knows how long while he was in the Lab), knowing that Mike still believes he’s alive (canonical events of Will’s going missing and El’s presumably being dead interestingly match here, and absolutely add up to each other, being just one storyline about Mike never giving up on Will), surely misses him, draws him and quotes him, which pisses Lonnie off.

Will desperately wants to see Mike, and Lonnie knows that. We also know how Lonnie calls him and can assume that he suspects that Mike is the one “not just a friend” to Will making him “queer”. And now even this question, that already had two layers, reveals the third:

Where’d you go on your little trip?

From Mike. To Mike.

Coming back to the first post of corruptiongate: Does it mean s3 m11/byler-kiss is a part of Will’s life at Lonnie’s? I don’t think so. (But Ig it’s time to finish my old theory of what is really going on with s3 through s5 lens.) Surely, not every scene of El and Hopper could be read as Will and Lonnie, so, most likely it has other explanations; however, El substituting Will barely leaves her as her own character with her own plotline. She might represent another character (Sara? still Jane but not Eleven?) in the right timeline/reality, but with every new detail El, as we know her, seems to be more of a concept and not her own character.

Now I suggest you watching the full scene with new eyes, and please pay attention to the OST (it starts being heard around the middle of the scene), it sounds eerie, but in a sci-fi way, like it implies that something scientific happens in this scene: like, a corrupted memory being loaded into the brain of a receiver, laying in the Nina machine, and only the sound directly gives it away.

I’ll finish this post with a picture of Hopper with matrixgate cue, i.e. blue and red [pills].

After all, if El is not fully real, it can mean that the whole storyline was corrupted since the very beginning, so we didn’t have just Snowball as the point of no return, but some memory fuckery was happening all the way through.

[ main theory posts ] [ more corruptiongate key posts ]

❗️bonus post: Will (as El) checking on Mike

_____________________________________________// tagging those who were interested in the crazy shit I found yesterday and who liked my comment where I mentioned proofs for s1-2 corruption: @sorafyr3 @gritstartar @itswhatyougive @warmglowhc @rgwriter@sidoniemoon @cypher-heart-no-key @eclecticmentalitytheorist @solariansea @wrathfulstarlightcavern @bbghostbones

[floresmoth]

got so angry about vol2 and the finale that i started revenge writing a season 5 rewrite… and this is how it’s going!

four chapters out now! https://archiveofourown.org/works/77469521/chapters/202863921

[nightnut]

🦋 Illusionary milkvan in 3x01 (aka m11 kiss is a corrupted byler kiss) p.2 + mixtapegate? (p.1 & p.3, p.4)// corruptiongate

The most suspicious part about milkvan in s3 was and still is the drawing of Paladin that makes no sense for Jane to have. Aside from it, I published also another post where I showed weird changes of the drawing’s placements and it’s changing looks. Interestingly, in s4 El also took the drawing to Cali.

In part 1 I mentioned that it might be important to analyse music in 3x01 m11 scenes, and there truly is something to talk about; also there are some other details in both kiss scenes giving away that something is corrupted / illusionary / or just off.

1. Cassette player

To begin with, it’s simply orange. It’s hilarious that it’s that simple, but well! What music does Vecna’s thingamajig play? We listen to it in two scenes (= two songs). In both we also see three tapes.

Tapes: Corey Hart, Bryan Adams (scene 1), El’s mixtape, Bryan Adams (scene 2).

Songs: Corey Hart — Never Surrender (scene 1), REO Speedwagon — Can’t fight this feeling (scene 2)

🧮 Now, let’s do some maths and see how what we see and hear work together.

Scene 1: Mike sings “Never surrender”, Eleven shuts him up. This is the song from one of the cassettes we do see on the shelf, Corey Hart’s.

So Eleven shuts Mike up while he’s singing along to the song about being loyal to yourself? The song from the album “Boy in the closet box” (and the name of the album is actually even seen on the cassette case)? Okay.

Scene 2: “Can’t fight this feeling” is playing, the song by REO Speedwagon. And there’s no tape of the band, only “El’s mixtape”. Mhm. Interesting.

We have never heard of this tape in the show, it’s seen just once, with no context. And we have byler mixtapegate. Before I continue with my speculation, I’ll introduce you to the song.

which doesn’t sound like m11 to me? 😅 but you know what it does sound like? I know you know.

Tell whatever you want, but this is a byler song. (There’s zero m11 lore in those phrases, but as for byler…) Also tell me that it doesn’t sound like a song for byler endgame? I mean, it could be used in s5… Which together with mixtapegate and some other details that, ngl, melt my brain making me think that s3 and s5 mb connected more than it seems.

One of the speculations on that part I posted here:

As I found out that the rain fight has happened bc of Vecna’s presence, and we also see him during the rain in Holly x Mary’s scene, both scenes (the rain fight and the rain movie night) felt suspiciously related. The connection is subtle, and I get that it’s easier to speculate on the possibility of this scene being just s5 byler version, I agree. Which made me wonder more of how s3 can be corrupted s5 (meaning that in s3 we might see something from s5, but distorted) and some of these thoughts even make sense but melt my mind… however, I believe that’s for real a conversation and a theory for another post.

This speculation suddenly explains mixtapegate: 1️⃣ this is For Will tape from s5 but corrupted; 2️⃣ Jonathan could help Mike with a tape, while in s3 we have no context who could do that for El (could it be even Mike, or was it Hopper?) and no one ever discusses the tape; 3️⃣ at least, one of the songs from that tape is byler coded.

I believe, if the show recontextualises itself somehow revealing that El represented either byler in general, or was never in the picture before “corruption”, it’ll explain m11 scenes being byler scenes at their cores. Maybe, we’ll hear some specific songs again but in their true contexts, conveying true meanings?

There are two more certainly sus things for me in the shots with the player: the first one is a rocket (?) which surprises me no less than Paladin (why would El have it?) and the second one is —

2. Butterflies 🦋

Do you still remember that butterflies at least symbolise illusion? (And at most time fuckery?)

Let’s get to scene 1 again: it has TWO butterflies. Given that, I believe, you won’t see the small one in any other shot with that shelf. You’ll see the big one later though. But yes. Illusion. Two butterflies.

The second shot almost killed me, when I noticed, bc wdym they put the 3rd butterfly in the corner so that it is still in the frame when we see m11! It’s not needed (?) but it’s there… it’s like they are screaming to our faces: right now you’re watching an illusion, don’t believe it! It’s not real!

An orange lamp and a pillow on El’s knees and weirdly uncoloured Paladin drawing (after we saw it coloured in the same episode) are our bonuses.

3. Hopper frames

1. He opens the door, sees m11 — the orange lamp is seen next to his head.

2. Wide shot gives us: rainbow imagery, Rubik’s cube (which has been associated with byler, but it’s a speculation so far), an orange hat, also another orange thingamajig and, who could’ve guessed it, the 4th butterfly!

3. During the dialogue we constantly see: a mirror (a frame within a frame even), a big butterfly, a rocket, two orange things (one is a hat). A full combo of weird stuff having double meanings.

And the last thing I want to drag your attention to is a moment after which Hopper enters the room: he peeps and sees 1) firstly, the orange lamp, 2) and only after the lamp he sees m11 (the orange pillow between them again? yeah, right). (That’s btw the first scene, where El wears a blue t-shirt.)

Even if my interpretations are wrong, implied illusionary fuckery seems to be pretty obvious, as all these details were put there for a reason… too many coincidences for each shot, I swear! (And yk what my good friend Lucas thinks about ones…)

[ all the main theory posts, other key corruptiongate posts ]

[floresmoth]

the first two chapters of my season 5 byler rewrite fic are posted! it’s a long fic in the making so just prepared! also check the tags

https://archiveofourown.org/works/77469521/chapters/202863921#workskin

for those of you who asked for a tag on my other post, here u go! ty for your patience :3 @biblothecary @karadoyoucopy @dancarter23 @max6painter @mikewillbegay @thatoneuserfromtheinternet @arikakari @midnightmoonstarss @danmeicoffeecat @revevivant @deliciousenemywonderland @reddthekingg @ode-to-berlermo @clarisssafairchilds

[nightnut]

The mysterious adventures of Paladin on Jane Hopper’s wall

This is a continuation of corruptiongate, born bc it doesn’t make sense for Jane to have this drawing whatsoever. Which can mean that some m11 scenes are corrupted byler scenes.

Here are two shots from 3x02 vs 3x03. Firstly, it seemed to me that this is another Paladin, but I guess, it’s the same but just not coloured yet.

In the next episode it’s shown finished.

But the thing is… we’ve seen a finished version in the👇 opening scene of m11 in 3x01 (on the left)

And that is the longest distance from the drawing till the big picture: the poster is not seen after Paladin, there’s a mask between them (absent in all next shots). The drawing moves in all scenes! (why would the production team change things all the time? Doesn’t it make sense to hang all in one place and leave it there, not moving it in every episode? Unless it’s needed for smth, or I don’t see some specific non-narrative reason for it?).

But the most important changes of Paladin are: 1) 3x01 coloured 👉 3x02 non-coloured 👉 3x03 coloured again; 2) hanging far in 3x01, hanging close to the bird in 3x02 and 3x03.

and here it’s even upper than before

Also what is also interesting is that the bird poster also moves. Why? Just check all the screenshots, both pics (if we assume that it’s just one drawing, being sketchy and finished — and the big picture) are in different places, even if it changes just a bit. But the most intriguing part is still 3x01 for real (right away coloured Paladin hanging far).

And if anyone still questions whether it still could be Mike’s gift to El, I’ll remind you that he’s not an artist. And neither is El. And why in one episode she has a sketch of Paladin on her wall (not even a finished drawing) is an absolute mystery.

Could be a continuity error? But don’t you know that you hang a non-coloured drawing in the place for a coloured one if it should be coloured? Or what is the other reason for it?

[ Corruptiongate p.2: butterflies and music ]

[ other key corruptiongate posts ] [ all the main theory posts ]