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The breakdowns from idiots when Mileven stays canon and Byler never happens will be hilarious. They will be reaching levels of cope that H*ntluz, D*slestia, Z*tara, M*korra, *some* Gl*mmadora, and *some* Rarijack fans had when Lumity/Huntlow, Fluttercord, Kataang/Maiko, Korrasami, Catradora/Glimbow, and Appledash became either canonically or semi-canonically endgame 😌☕️
I don't think Lunter and Zutara are similar at all in terms of how bad the ships are. I am largly neutral towards Zutara for that reason
1. Lunter gets rid of the best LGTBQ+ romance in history, while Zutara just replaces a fairly average ship with another average ship.
2. Lunter ships two people that are directly portrayed to be the good timeline version of a different sibling dynamic ( With Luz being a good Belos and Hunter being a Caleb that lived). Zuko and Katara dosen't have a sibling dynamic and their main narrative counterparts aren't siblings.
3. Lunter tends to butcher Luz, Hunter, and Amitys characters, turning Luz into just some helpless Bella copy and Hunter into generic edgy twink number 1000. Zutara only tends to mess with Aang's characterization.
I don't ship Zutara but at the very least it's not as bad as Lunter as a ship.
ANTI MAIKO
Let me say firstly: I do NOT think this ship ruined ATLA. That sentiment is passed along a lot, but I still enjoy Zuko's Redemption and the overall experience of watching this show as the Gaang developed as people. Secondly: I am NOT purely a Zutara shipper. I read a lot of fanfics with Zuko with anybody like Reign of the Fire Lady Dowager (Zuko/Yue) amongst countless others. Thirdly: I love Mai as a character overall; just that I hate this ship. Fourthly: I hate the comics and any continuation of ATLA and have avoided them for the most part, so only the 2005 ATLA is taken into context.
However, I want to speak from an outside experience on how much I LOATHE this ship. I was indifferent to it up until the past week or so. People I've interacted with actually think I was mad because I didn't like this ship.
No, I'm going to be upfront.
In my opinion, this ship (not Kataang despite my problems with that ship)... is the worst ship in the Avatar: The Last Airbender show. Right next to Eren and Mikasa, it's one of my most hated relationships in any TV show.
Where do I get started?
I usually ship the canonical characters, but these two HAVE nothing in common. If I had a friend, whose significant other dismissed them trying to talk about their trauma with: “I didn’t ask for your life story,” I would advise them to dump them, directly and with great vehemence. I have a history of being abused as a male and this is the first crack in any sort of context where I realize these two are badly written together.
As others have pointed out, Zuko gave not so much of a thought to her whatsoever; not during his run (in fact he thinks of Azula more than he thinks of Mai), not during her "heroic sacrifice" at the Boiling Rock, and not afterwards. Literally, all those attempts to force chemistry between these two have fallen flat on its ass.
Speaking of the Boiling Rock, I feel the need to mention another argument people make. In case people forgotten, Mai's uncle was behind operations at the Boiling Rock.
Why is this of any bearing? You may ask. Well, another argument I saw was that a political marriage between them would make more sense than any other arranged marriage.
Would it though?
He'd probably tortured so many people. While this is NOT Mai's fault, blood guilt is something that tends to happen when establishing a new order. People are going to point out by their family and friends being killed under Azulon, Ozai, etc, and everybody is going to face bashlash. This is going to affect Poor Mai by blood association.
I have seen people say "ZUKO WITH ANY OTHER FEMALE CHARACTER WOULDN'T WORK! THEY'LL FIGHT A LOT! THEY'LL BREAK UP!"
Oh, you mean like Mai and Zuko?
Mai completely dropped Zuko in this scene. Rather than simply walking away from the situation to clear their heads, Mai breaks up with him on the spot. A few minutes later after Zuko gives an impassioned speech about not knowing what’s right or wrong anymore, and she… gets back with him. They make no promises, didn't communicate, reach no compromise, they just drop the whole incident like it never occurred in the first place, which isn't inherently healthy or respectful. Like the show establishes itself, your trauma is not an excuse for terrible decision-making, but of course that doesn't account for Maiko. Even Ty Lee shows more understanding and sympathy to Zuko than his "supposed soul mate."
People ask me why I rather read/write a Zuko/Ty Lee fic than a Zuko/Mai fic. Lemme tell you all something, if they had put Zuko with Ty Lee it wouldn't be my favorite ship, but I would respect it because even though Zuko yelled at Ty Lee, that doesn't mean he is going to be abusive to her or anything, or that they wouldn't be happy together. After all, Zuko REDEEMED himself and seeks happiness towards the end of the series. Narratively, Zuko/Mai is boring when they are the focus. I don't enjoy seeing them on screen and I don't enjoy reading nor writing them.
It would check off all the marks in the eyes of Maiko shippers, wouldn't it?
Ty Lee works "politically" because she's a nobleman's daughter of the Fire Nation so that argument doesn't work. Ty Lee is also close to the Prince and Princess of the Fire Nation. Of course "they won't make any sense" because some Maiko shippers would create some other reasonings.
I have a conversation with someone in a Discord server where they said "I can excuse Mai and Zuko having difficulty communicating because they literally weren’t taught how to communicate in a healthy way."
Not wanting to jump on this person's opinions or to make them feel bad, but that is not a good excuse for a badly written relationship like this. You want to know other characters who also grew up in unhealthy, abusive, or mistreated environments?
Exhibit A:
Hordak and Entrapta is the best relationship in the 2018 She-Ra cartoon in my opinion. For those who require context, Hordak was abused and downright loyal to his older brother. Entrapta also had autism and often misunderstood and misjudged for it, something the show touches upon heavily. At first, it is true he wants to use her, but he grows to RESPECT her and treats her with due diligence. Interestingly enough, she doesn't try to change him. She embraces him for who he is from the start, and he changes on his own eventually. Even when praising her beforehand, he still respected her enough to reassure her, awkward as it may be.
"I... acknowledge the work you put into this. It is very technologically sound... and you are not a failure! Any who discount you are... utter fools!"
Near four minutes with these two makes me ship them...
...more than the barely 16 minutes we got with Zuko and Mai.
Exhibit B:
This is Luz and Amity. The first same-sex relationship I have ever paired because they don't even mention it like it was a big thing and it was treated like it is normal, which it is. Luz wasn't abused by her mother, at least, not intentionally. But her mother (Camila) didn't understand her. Opposite of her was Amity; she was abused by her parents growing up (although her father does change), taught with heavy expectations, abandoning and mistreating her friend Willow for years as well as Luz at first. Throughout the show, Amity is shown taking responsibility for her actions and grows to respect Luz as well as apologizing to Willow. She doesn't leave Luz over a stupid argument but stands behind her. Yes, they have their moments, but people doesn't use Amity's trauma as an excuse for her actions, which they shouldn't.
The 38 minutes between them consists of actual, well-written character development that went from what is in my own opinion a perfect to a lover arc:
When it comes down to it, nobody is asking for the perfect relationship. They are asking for one where the characters respect each other so we can respect the relationship. As it is shown, while Mai have stood up for Zuko, that is only one example in what is otherwise a magnitude of an abusive, soulless relationship. People try to say that "it's not meant to be healthy" then that gives more credence to break them up. Why would we want Zuko and Mai to be in an unhealthy relationship for the rest of their lives?
Your trauma EXPLAINS things but it's not an excuse. Funny how people who defend them yet bash on Azula often pull that card out when it comes to Azula.
Having difficulties in communicating is one thing. Discarding each other's feelings is another. I have had difficulties in communicating with people. I eventually came around but I respected them nevertheless and didn't tell them that "I didn't want to hear their whole life stories."
So how the hell am I supposed to conclude otherwise than that these two are completely incompatible?
In the entire time he is with the Gaang, he mentions his relationship with Mai one time... ONE TIME even after she sacrifices herself for him. He speaks about Uncle Iroh at length and even Azula, but the girl he is supposedly in love with only gets a single mention to one of his new friends. I understand he has more of a guilty conscience in regards to his Uncle than Mai (at least at first). After all, in his words, he left her because “everyone in the Fire Nation thinks [he] is a traitor” and he “couldn’t drag her into it.” He is vindicated for breaking up with her because he did it out of concern for her behalf. …But shouldn’t he still miss her? You know… ever? He couldn’t look at Sokka and Suki and feel the smallest pang of longing for his lost love? He couldn’t casually mention conversations they had, or reminisce about past times? They couldn’t have given us even the slightest indication that he gave a single crap about her? Even after she *risks her life* to save him, he never talks about her or mentions her in any way, doesn't even look back. Hell, immediately after it happens, he shrugs it off like it didn’t matter.
Honestly, I rather have Zuko and Mai go find their own significant others and just be friends. People claim to love Zuko and Mai so much, but why would you want them in a loveless, passionless, and empty relationship that already shows that they could break up at any moment at any argument? I rather have Zuko and Mai become their own people who find their own happiness than be forced in a engagement that could break apart at any moment.
Maybe it's just me but I don't see any way these two work whatsoever.
So, not-so-fun fact:
When Elijah’s reaction to this released…
…I left a comment that was basically the joke that Callum went up to Opeli and told her that “Rayla has a permit”…
…and it attracted two people who apparently think Rayllum should have been yet another relationship that argues and breaks up over a dumb, easily explainable misunderstanding, the second person going as far as to say, “Callum would get along with Vi as they’re both kiss-ups to their oppressors,” and I don’t think you need me to tell you how braindead of a take that is, so I deleted the comment.
If anything, Callum would get along with Amity Blight in terms of both his relationship with Rayla and her relationship with Luz Noceda both being mature enough to not blow up at each other for keeping secrets and letting each other explain themselves.
I’m sorry other shows have conditioned you to think these relationships should have been super angsty and break up every other episode, but the writers of these three shows are smart enough to not write the relationships to fall into the obvious relationship traps such as:
“Oh, no, one character has a horrible secret that might put the entire relationship in jeopardy! Would you just think of the drama when the truth finally comes out?” (Suits)
“Oh, no, they broke up for completely contrived and stupid reasons. However will they learn to love each other again? What’s this? They did the exact same thing next season? Wow, how crazy.” (Stranger Things)
“Oh, wow, these two keep going on again, then off again, then on again, then off again, then on, then off, then on, then off, then on, then off all the way to the finale and it’s so painful! Will they ever reach true happiness?” (Austin & Ally)
“Oopsie, someone’s accidentally found themselves in a situation where they’re cheating on their partner! Things are about to get juicy!” (Suits)
“Oh, no, there’s a horrible yet agonizingly easily-explainable misunderstanding due to contrived circumstances!” (Phineas & Ferb)
“Oh, no, their ex reappeared! And there’s a third person in the picture! Now there’s a dramatic love triangle, despite one side already having been caught cheating! Oh, my, who will she choose?” (Liv & Maddie, Austin & Ally, Good Luck Charlie)
OH, MY GOD, WHO CARES?!
"Luz is a shitty girlfriend!" "She lied to Amity and didn't tell her the truth!" "Amity should have dumped her in TTT-"
Dude Luz lied because she HELPED A GENOCIDAL DICTATOR WITH HIS PLAN AND THOUGHT SHE WAS GOING TO LOSE ALL OF HER FRIENDS ONCE THEY FOUND OUT THE TRUTH!!!!!!
Ya know, I'm pretty sure Amity would be fairly understanding of why Luz lied to her that time cuz again, she helped a fucking dictator and thought they'll all hate her for it. I feel the need to reiterate that.
https://chng.it/xCJwvvcMv4
Don't Stop Making The Owl House - Diversity is Important!
