Discover Top Posts Tagged with #raymond jones

Cover of the Day: Power Man #31 (May, 1976) Art by Rich Buckler and Dan Adkins

#Marvel #Comics #Luke Cage #Power Man #Piranha Jones #Raymond Jones

This is a question I've never been able to sort out. Did Raymond Jones actually exist? He says he did! Others say he's a Beatle myth. What do you know?

“The story of how Brian Epstein became the Beatles manager had now passed into Beatles legend, which sadly often means that the facts of the matter go straight out of the window. My memory is as fallible as the next man’s, but I was there when it happened, and in spite of what you might have read or heard to the contrary in the avalanche of Beatles books and articles, this is the truth.

“I got so fed up with people asking if we had a record of ‘My Bonnie’ by the Beatles and having to say No that I put through an order for it myself under a name I simply dreamed up. Brian refused to order records unless there was a firm order. Once there was an order, Brian’s claim was that if the record existed, anywhere in the world, we could get it.

“The famous story is that a guy called Raymond Jones came into the shop and asked for a record by the Beatles. I know that I invented the name and put it in the order book. But now Liverpool people claim to know ‘the real’ Raymond Jones and a chap with that name can miraculously recall placing the order. Rubbish. It was a name I picked at random because I wanted to get this bloody Beatles record that people kept asking about.”

[Alistair Taylor, With The Beatles]

But…

“On Saturday, October 28, I had just come back from a long holiday in Spain during which I had wondered how l could expand my interests. And then, suddenly, though quite undramatically, a few words from Raymond Jones brought the solution. The words, of course, were “Have you got a disc by the Beatles?” […]

“On October 28 [1961] Raymond Jones left the [NEMS] store after I had taken note of his request. I wrote on a pad: “’My Bonnie.’ The Beatles. Check on Monday.” But before I had time to check on Monday, two girls came into the store and they too asked for a disc by this curiously-spelled group. (And this, contrary to legend, was the sum total of demand for the Beatles’ disc at this time in Liverpool. It is untrue that there was a milling, fighting crowd around Nems waiting for the disc to arrive).”

[Brian Epstein, A Cellarful of Noise]

and

“My ex brother-in-law Kenny Johnson was the lead guitarist with a group called Mark Peters and the Cyclones. It was him that told me The Beatles had made a record in Germany. The following Saturday I went to NEMS to ask for the record, not realising the person I spoke to was Brian Epstein. He started asking me questions: who were they? Where did they play? What type of music did they perform?

“After I had answered his questions I told him they were the best group I had ever seen. The next time I went to NEMS I picked up the record. Shortly after that it was common knowledge that Epstein had become their manager.

“I had never heard the Tony Sheridan/Beatles record at the Cavern or anywhere else before going into NEMS that day. As I said before, it was just a chance conversation with Kenny Johnson that prompted me to go to NEMS and ask for the record. About two weeks after that that I heard Bob Wooler playing it at the Cavern. […]

“When the Beatles had had a couple of recordings under their belt, Brian Epstein was telling his story in a national newspaper, I was livid when he described me in the article as a “scruffy” 18-year-old leather-jacketed youth. I wrote to NEMS to show him my disgust about his remark. In the letter I said not everyone wore suits and that some people had to work for a living.

“Shortly after that someone from NEMS wrote to me and asked me to contact Mr Epstein at his office, which at that time was in Moorfields off Dale Street. When I contacted him he asked me to call to his office and said he would like to apologise in person. […]

“Some time later a neighbour of mine wrote to Brian – for what reason I’m not quite sure – but by return of post she received a letter from Diana Vero, Mr Epstein’s secretary, asking for my address so he could send me a copy of his book. A week or so later I received it.”

[Raymond Jones, Interview on The Beatles Bible]

Conflicting accounts all round. Brian said there was only mild interest in the record and Raymond Jones’ request was the first time he’d heard of the Beatles. (He goes on to say that he’d seen the Beatles in his shop but didn’t know who they were). Raymond Jones says Brian quizzed him about the Beatles, suggesting that Brian had been aware of some sort of demand for this groups record. Alistair says all of that is rubbish, he ordered the record, Raymond Jones never existed and this “Raymond Jones” chap is just trying to cash in.

So what’s the truth? Who’s lying? I don’t think any of them are.

In Autumn 1961, Brian took a five week holiday and went to Spain. This was the longest time he’d been away from NEMS. My theory is that while Brian was away, Alistair Taylor, back in Liverpool, busy running NEMS, did get quite a lot of requests for the Beatles record, something Brian would not have necessarily known about. NEMS’ brag was that if they didn’t have a record in stock, so long as it was available somewhere in the world, they would get it for you.

If demand for the record was so high, why wouldn’t anyone ask if they could order it? Maybe they did, but they couldn’t find it. Both Brian and Alistair say they had trouble finding it initially as it wasn’t a record by The Beatles, but by Tony Sheridan and The Beat Brothers. So I hypothesise that if Alistair looked for it, while Brian was away, maybe he couldn’t find it. But people kept asking for it.

When Brian came back, I think maybe Alistair (or his other staff) may have mentioned to him that people were asking for this record. It was curious - it obviously existed but they couldn’t find it. So when Raymond Jones came into the shop and asked Mr Brian if he could buy the record, Brian might have turned round and quizzed him on the group as they couldn’t find anything by ‘The Beatles’.

And I do believe Raymond Jones went into NEMS and asked Brian - not Alistair - for the record.

So what about Alistair who claims, quite vehemently, that he made up a name so he could order the ‘bloody Beatles record’. I don’t see that he had any reason to lie - I don’t think he is. I think he tried to order it, but maybe he couldn’t find it. He admits he had to do some research to get it. I think he could have made up a name to get it, but I think it’s possible, maybe even likely, that he wouldn’t remember what that ‘John Smith’ type name was. Years later when the story comes out and the name Raymond Jones is mentioned, Alistair thinks, yes, that’s the name I made up.

But I do believe Raymond Jones. He was a Beatle fan who watched the Beatles at the Cavern lunchtime sessions. His dad was a bus driver with George’s dad, though he didn’t know the Beatles well, just a nodding acquaintance. He was friends with Bob Wooler and Spencer Leigh though, who supported his story. The info he gives about being offended by Brian calling him “scruffy” and the letter (picture from Beatles Bible interview) is too detailed to be untrue, in my opinion.

This is my theory of the events, because I don’t see any motive for either side to lie. Raymond Jones doesn’t strike me as someone who wants the recognition or the fame, or to cash in on a Beatles connection, because he seems quite shy and reticent to talk about it. If he wanted to cash in, he’d be at every Beatles festival going.

In any case, NEMS ordered around 20 copies, which they wouldn’t have done (probably) if there wasn’t a demand for the record outside of Mr Jones and a couple of girls. They put a notice in the window, sold all copies within a few hours, ordered 50 more and the rest was history.

“People have told me that my name will go down in Beatles history. That may be true, but all I did was buy a record by a group that gave me so much pleasure and enjoyment.”

[Raymond Jones, Beatles Bible interview]

#Ask #Beatles #Raymond Jones #Brian Epstein #Alistair Taylor #1961 #Tony Sheridan and The Beat Brothers #NEMS