#stonka

[eirikrjs]

i had a bad news about stonka: it may be fake just like forbi. here's what i found on pixiv wiki: it may be based on the bull gorgon or catoblepas. its name may be driving from "stonify" (石化させる→ストーン化). If you search for the spelling of the word "Stonka," you will find the Polish word for the potato pest "Colorado potato beetle" (Stonka ziemniaczana: "potato ladybug"). and he is only found in that World Yokai Encyclopedia book

ストーンカ

ブルガリアに伝わると言われる、牡牛の怪物。

Fuck this dumb thing! But good work, I definitely believe it. Even Tingkat eventually produced leads. If Mizuki said nothing about a creature, then it's probably inauthentic (with some notable exceptions).

[sorenblr]

Congrats to you, Vesk, and Eirikr for cracking Annwn! Come onnnnnnn Stonka! I want to believe it's out there!

Thank you, but I wasn't involved in the process- my days of ferreting out these things are pretty much over. It was all Vesk on research, with Eirikr compiling the post for Tumblr. I just sat on my ass and gamed like a goddamn monster.

Stonka, if you're out there somewhere, I just need you to know... I want to kill you for wasting a bunch of my time when I was in college......

[eirikrjs]

Have you seen this alchemical engraving of a chimera from Cabala, Mirror of Art and Nature? I'm convinced it served as an inspiration for Master Therion, but I fail to see the connection between the two other than both belonging to Western esotericism.

Yes, I think so, too; it's actually the second entry of Kaneko's Crib Notes:

Kaneko's Crib Notes

KANEKO’S CRIB NOTES, part II The top image is a plate that appears in an esoteric text from 1616, simply titled “Cabala,” by one S. Michelsp

I think the image itself is more pertinent than the "Cabala" subject or the context around it. Because the truth is with a lot of Japanese books (and those from elsewhere) is that images can be used without being properly sourced or credited--if at all.

A couple examples:

This is an entry on Stonka from "World Yokai Picture Book" by Jaguar books, a series of books Kaneko loved. Note of course that this is not artwork of Stonka itself but rather the work of Marc Saint-Saens arbitrarily recontextualized to illustrate the entry.

I first saw the Cabala beast on the cover of this book (not recommended, quite rudimentary); I don't think it is otherwise mentioned or detailed in the book itself.

So I can't say we know exactly where Kaneko saw the Cabala beast, just that I feel confident in saying he did see it before designing Master Therion for SMT2. It could have literally been anywhere--and such a serendipitous glimpse is sometimes all that's required to provide the spark of needed creativity.

[sorenblr]

Hi there! So during Eirkr's search for Stonka he at one point mentioned these two CCGs that had Stonka as cards and i just wanted to know where those cards are from. Here is the image btw

Well, well, well, if it isn't Stonka and her big enormous titties...

The card on the left is from the long-defunct Guardian Cross, but despite many harsh trials, we have not been enable to identify the design on the right. If anyone recognizes the game from the card/summon format, please chime in!

[eirikrjs]

Anything further on the "total losers" from the Mizuki article a couple years back?

At this point I very much doubt we'll find anything on them. Forbi is almost certainly an invention and Stonka is... Stonka. Holy Ghost is just a matter of finding a source for its weird datamined profile from Devil Survivor 2.

A couple years back... actually, in a couple weeks it'll be 5 years old. 😬 I still need to make a couple updates to it, including Rakcharango's real name (Raksha Lango) and the Putz sources that were found many months ago.

[eirikrjs]

Stonka researching.

So a few things about the Stonka.

First things first remember that article about the water bull that was slayed by an equipped bull.

https://bnr.bg/en/post/100467575/ox-cow-and-bull-in-folklore-imagery-and-tales

Well for my understanding Water Bulls or in Bulgarian Водният Бик/Vodniyat Bik are folkloric creatures found around Bulgarian villages.  For what I got the story goes that they are violent bulls that terrorized the villagers until slayed by an equipped four legged animal and also have strong connection with water.  The Bulgarian Wikipedia of the Slavic Water Spirit even mentions the bull being a water spirit and does give some location of it’s encounter.  The article that was founded was one from Kostenets with one which I found record from 1941 for magazine that can be read below along with other .

https://www.360mag.bg/posts/118838

Here’s one from Tishanovo (Page 85; this one couldn’t detect the language being Bulgarian so I just translate only the bit I need for a cleaner translation at Google translators).

Here’s variety from Tishanovo that’s slightly different from the one above.

https://georgealall.blog.bg/lichni-dnevnici/2012/09/30/iz-spomenite-na-moia-pradiado-pavel-iovchev-kmet-na-s-tishan.1004781

https://www.academia.edu/17300553/Mount_Sacra

Here’s one from Bosnek.

http://www.bgnow.eu/news.php?cat=2&cp=4&newsid=36508

Here’s one from Ugyrchin (page 78; had to use image translated it).

http://sfera.logica-bg.com/treasures/XII-05.pdf

Here’s one from Sveshtari (page 15-16; this one also couldn’t detect the language being Bulgarian so I had to us so I had to uses Google translators again; this one had two buffalos rather than a bull named Karaman and Sakar with one of them slaying the water bull and their owner being named Demir Baba or the Iron Father)

https://gutenberg-bg.com/ludogorie.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0-%D0%96%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F-%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%89%D0%B0_%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81-%D0%98%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2.pdf

However the one that strikes me the most is this one from Rabisha.

http://www.vidin-online.com/legendi/legenda-za-vodniyat-bik-i-selo-rabisha

The story was said to come from a book from 1969 called “Шепот от вековете. Легенди от Видинския край”.  While not identically to the Stonka story it does have more similarity compared to the other sure as The bull being defeated with something made of gold (which is the bulls horns), the water bull able to bring earthquakes and storms, but the most striking comparison is that the bull has one eye on his forehead (and another on the back of his head).  I felt this is the closet we reached to the Stonka.

The main problem that none of these stories features a man slaying the bull, so wonder where that version originated from.

____________________________________________

Okay, I finally have to release your great research into the wild.

While you’ve reached mostly the same conclusions and stories about the “water bulls” as @indecisive-grenadier did years ago (though they were never posted publicly as far as I know), I don’t think I heard the Rabisha story with the single eye and the gold weapon. That does sound like the closest we’ve gotten, but I think we are still a bit off.

Take the profile of Stonka from Megami Tensei II no Subete, probably the oldest one available of any MT materials:

ブルガリア、ユゴスラビアの、怪力で知られる不死身の牛。二本の鋭い角で、牧場の牛馬を殺しまくった。馬の皮を着て馬に化けた英雄が、黄金の剣て刺し殺したという。

An invulnerable bull from Bulgaria and Yugoslavia known for supernatural strength. He slaughtered farms’ cattle with his two sharp horns. A hero disguised with a horse’s skin stabbed him with a golden sword.

And SMT4′s profile for fun and completeness (which seems to be functionally identical to the Stonka profile in Kaneko Works I, which itself is probably from that one SMT1 book I don’t have with all the demon art and their profiles):

A one-eyed bull that caused chaos around the Balkans. With a cry like thunder and speed like lightning, it would run through ranches, ramming and killing any cow or horse in its way. Its skin was made of bronze and could deflect arrows with ease. It was also very cautious, never getting close to a human when it spotted one, and could sense traps with its magic. It was finally killed by a man who made a golden sword.

Then, take a look at the profile translations by Miwasatoshi on Stonka’s talk page. Only source three is from a printed publication (and source two is just the SMT4 profile), indeed the World Yokai book from the early 70s. Importantly, the MT2 blurb above and the World Yokai profile are essentially the same, only I suppose MT2 didn’t have the room to mention Stonka’s knack for detecting traps. But MT2 definitely got the information from World Yokai.

But where did World Yokai get its information from? That’s the mystery. But thinking about it, the fact that Rabisha has stuff also in the SMT4 profile that World Yokai/MT2 don’t is probably a good sign you’re on the right track.

[eirikrjs]

Some blessed individual found my Blogger with this search:

So I couldn’t help but pay tribute to their stirring curiosity with this 'shop. Searches like these are exactly the kind of inspiring actions we need in these fallow SMT times!

[eirikrjs]

Are there still demons with unknown origins like how tenong cut was, or have they all been placed with their original myths now?