#stranger things timelines

[upsidedownlurker]

Hi, thanks for your theories. How do you feel about the concept of time travel/other timelines? Many people have speculated about this, such as the movie "Back to the Future," the Steve and Dustin t-shirt, and more. If this concept is possible, how do you envision its implementation?

Hey, thanks for the ask!!! :D

I've seen this theory floating around. I think it’s cool, for sure...to me, the biggest pieces of evidence of the time travel/timelines are: 

The themes of time and “turning back the clock”. For example, Henry turns a clock backwards with his mind, the camera turns anticlockwise when El brings Max back to life, and there are 12 numbers on a clock. "Seconds, minutes, hours, days, years" etc.

The Upside Down is “stuck in time” on the day Will went missing. He went missing while dressed like Marty McFly. (His ST5 vest even looks like Marty’s future jacket). Along with that “Back to the Future” t-shirt you mentioned!!

Time discrepancies (e.g. birthdaygate). The anniversary effect, multiple important dates lining up w/ each other, Will’s forgotten/changed birthday.

I’ve personally interpreted this evidence in a more metaphorical way –

Characters’ memories of events/dates are being changed, therefore their “reality” is.

Characters are going to be “turning back the clock” by re-experiencing memories. Going back to 12 on the clock (perhaps age 12).

Similar to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, the Truman Show etc.

But it could absolutely point to a more literal interpretation: time travel/alternate timelines!

The fabric of reality is actively being changed and rewritten, causing discrepancies with timelines.

Characters are going to travel in time or explore alternate timelines on their journey to set reality right.

Similar to Back to the Future, Donnie Darko etc.

I always find other people's time travel theories intriguing, and I wouldn't be mad if it ended up happening in the show. I think it could tell a satisfying story – if done right! The biggest thing would be the ending.

The Duffers have said themselves that they wouldn’t do the “it was all a D&D game” thing because the audience might feel cheated, and it might not be very satisfying. If the characters go back in time and erase everything, including all their memories, in my opinion this would be the same as that theory; not very satisfying. A bit like Umbrella Academy. “So it was all for nothing?” 

BUT, if the characters get to keep their memories of the original timeline, and/or only a few key things are changed, this would be a lot more satisfying for the audience. We’d all feel like we were in on a secret with our favourite characters, and it would feel like everything that happened was necessary for the ending.

It would be especially great if the concept of alternate timelines are explored through this, and we get to see a bunch of different versions of what could've happened in the show, had things gone differently. Henry’s “I became an explorer” line could be re-contextualised! Additionally, this would be an opportunity for the characters to accept the trauma that they've experienced through all their horrific adventures, and begin to move on, but MOST IMPORTANTLY – without erasing it from existence.

That's the biggest risk with the concept of resetting the timelines. If all the characters' memories are permanently erased, they don't grow, and they never actually work through the trauma of what happened, because it basically never happened at all. That's why, if there are time shenanigans, the main characters still need to remember!

...

So, the more metaphorical interpretation makes more sense to me personally, but I def wouldn’t discount the timelines theory. If you know any good analyses/evidence feel free to send ‘em my way!! I’m interested, especially if there’s maybe some evidence I haven’t considered before

:P

[thebylertimeline]

At this point, I don’t know if what people are noticing is “timeline stuff” specifically. It could be timelines. It could be memory fragmentation. It could be Vecna or Kali manipulating perception or stories being told from incomplete POVs. Or honestly, some of it could just be a really elaborate post-finale puzzle the fandom is meant to piece together afterward.

But what makes it interesting is that people are not just pulling random things out of nowhere. There are enough repeated inconsistencies and strange overlaps that it starts to feel intentional. And there are too many of these to be just production continuity errors. Hair changing within the same scene. Lighting changing in the same scene when they’re using artificial light for the scene. Dials changing color. Missing conversational beats. Weird continuity shifts. Calls and moments from earlier seasons that never fully resolve. And the Duffers specifically telling people to pay attention to Seasons 2 and 4 only adds fuel to the fire.

I think the real question is not “are there multiple timelines?” The real question is whether all of this eventually lands as an actual cohesive narrative inside the show itself, or if the audience is ultimately expected to do the final assembly work afterward as a sort of post-show reconstruction project combined with ARG elements.

If they pull it off, and over the course of several seasons, we’ve been seeing multiple spliced together real timelines or “Camazotz” manipulated realities that feel real to the characters, then it may end up being one of the best (or at least most provocative) finales ever.

I just ask that none of them die during any of the timelines, but I don’t think that’s realistic. Right? Right? Especially given that El may have died in at least one of the timelines.

The most unbelievable thing would be that the cast and crew kept it under wraps for so long, although I can see how you can direct and edit the earlier seasons in such a way where some of the cast wouldn’t know; it would only be clear while filming Season 5.

I would pay good money to see another table read reveal like the one from The Good Place.

And if they do this, and we still don’t get canon Byler in one of the timelines or confirmation from one of their future selves that Byler is canon in the future (if there are time travelers in the mix), I…will…riot!

[thebylertimeline]

To people in the fandom who are still mentally and emotionally struggling or trying to make coherence out of non-coherence:

Byler is canon. Not in the sense that there was a kiss or direct verbal confirmation (not even from Will’s side if we’re being technical), but in the sense that the creators—through the language of media—let you, the perceptive viewer, know that Mike’s and Will’s feelings, though complicated, are mutual. They told you to pay attention and you did.

Do not listen to what the Duffers are saying out loud because they are speaking in coded language anyway. Pay attention to what is right before your eyes and ears (in the framing, music, and yes, even words if you understand both the language of film and the language of the show, itself).

The Duffers are a lot of things (🙃), and they aren’t handling it in the best way because of competing and conflicting motivations and interests, but they are professional filmmakers and had a very large budget and talented crew. And that talented crew of professionals and actors gave us what they could (and it’s a lot), so those of us who have eyes to see and ears to hear would know what doesn’t need to be said.

And I know we wanted it “out loud”, but we may never get that, or we may only get it in some distant minor revelation in a document or interview when guards are down and competing interests aren’t as salient.

Don’t spend energy arguing with people who won’t get it. All things aren’t meant for all people. People are free to interact with art in the way they want and at the level they are capable. I personally like to debate sometimes, but if it’s draining you more than feeding you or changing you in ways that aren’t beneficial, you should let it go.

I’m going to start focusing more on the edits, music, literature, ARG discourse, and art in general that has come from such a beautiful and complicated ship. I honestly think out of all the relationships in the show, we actually came out on top in the end. Our edits and stories are easier to make and have so much heart because it’s all there. In the canon work. Right in front of our eyes. And as we know…

[thebylertimeline]

“Something big is coming” but it’s the television adaptation of The First Shadow slightly revised to remove any Byler parallels.😩

[fairyrona]

What's wrong? Rainbow.

Okay this post is a little of a brain vomit, because I've read so many smart posts lately and I have some thoughts that kinda tie into all of them or maybe provide some pieces.

So, let's add some maybe fresh thoughts. If somebody had already said all that, please step forth lmao

First, the Zombie Boy drawing and different/changing timelines. (and project rainbow) For For context, @willbyersabyss 's post.

S1 version mentioning the mind control experiments.

-> completely erasing that timeline/version of events by the said mind control. -> And now Will Byers has become the Zombie Boy

It's almost unbelivable how much timeline-wrongness/loops S2 hides under it's sleeve.

Trapped in an artificially created time loop / timeline.

What's wrong with Mama? Rainbow. Timeline's wrong.

Oh, what you say Nancy-in-Terry's overcoat/costume?

Murray's? But not yours?

Oh, then what if Murray's timeline?

Zombie Boy version. The one that says Will got lost in the woods. Our timeline. And then we get Lucas telling Max the truth. (Events of s1, that represent the Zombie Boy version.) But on this particular timeline-train of thoughts, he literally repeats after Nancy:

Will didn't get lost in the woods. The timeline's wrong.

And then it get's even more messy, because Max thinks this story feels derivative. This is literally us reading the s1 article. But then, why is she reacting to the s2 version like that?

And then she calls him out for lying. We get told multiple times, that Lucas is not telling the true version of events.

Friends don't lie. Never ever. No matter what. Is that right? Then how do you explain this?

Out of order. The timeline is wrong. Out of order.

Friends don't lie. Never ever. No matter what. Is that right? Then how do you explain this?

Now, lets go back a little. And add some MKUltra.

What's wrong with mama? Rainbow. Timeline's wrong. Out of order.

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the fact that we've got not 1, not 2, but at least 3 Rainbow Rooms.

terry ives' mind loop (with different colour-gradings)

Ray's, the lab ward's home in Chicagoproject nina tape-based memories project nina tape-based memories (with different colour-gradings)

While we're at HNL colour grading I wanna quickly add that Terry's sequences are a lot warmer, I'd even say the walls are different paint all together. But it could just visual clue of time passing, renovations and all.

However. It's a cool detail that while Terry's memories are warm-ish-> turn greenish just as it cuts to little Jane and Kali and then the lighting immediately becomes cold - like in Will's scenes. (And Ray's, ''true'' version is warm as well. Outside of the girls nightgowns, that are more cool-toned. and that's another mindfuckery detail, bc Ray's kids are dressed more like lab subjects than the lab subjects.) (out of order)

I wanna talk bout the middle Rainbow Room. And its possible connection to MK Ultra.

First. Light is important. Here are two posts about light's and rainbow's involvement in the experiments'.

For context, go to the two @conflictofthemind 's posts.

breathe. sunflower. rainbow. three to the right, four to the left. four-fifty. breathe.

breathe. (He isn't breathing!)

sunflower. (follows the light. Joyce to find Will, El to talk to Terry etc. Will's house being all lit up in the pilot. AND the shed. And the light bulb thing. followed the light? and went back?)

rainbow.

(electromagnetic spectrum gets separated. different wavelengths reflect at a different angle. but in the end it's still just an optical illusion. it doesn't exist in a specific point in the sky.)

Rainbows are actually full circles. The antisolar point is the center of the circle. Viewers in aircraft can sometimes see these circular rainbows. (The horizon obstructs our view. It's as if the second half was under. In the Upside down.)

three to the right, four to the left. 43. 1943?

four-fifty. (Turning up the dial on the machine. 450° degree angle? it loops.

breathe. it loops.

Also, the safety vault, the rainbow and the dial is all circle shaped, and it ends on the dial being turned, as if we're actually going round on it's axis. (But in Terry's memories, and Ray's flat, we're only seeing one half of the story. S4? we get too many versions. A half circle, the rainbow going around the room, turning upside down etc.)

In that scene they are in Ray's apartament. (another light reference)

And I have a few theories. This is the writers telling us that

there are multiple versions of the event

these memories from another timeline. which i'll touch upon in a different post, to keep things in order

the event is replicating itself in different manners

Okay, now a rundown of the scene:

-> The Kali Gang bursts in. The RAY-guy begs for his life. Says he's gonna help El find Brenner.

-> Nobody believes the guy, neither the audience nor the characters, but the thing is - he was telling the truth! Now, after s4, after being introduced to yet another, COMPLETELY different rainbow room, we know that.

What also interest me is that Ray said Brenner trusts him - thus he knows Brenner is alive. Was that a secret between the bad men as well? Is Brenner being alive something more than not succumbing to injury circa s1?

The things is!! El and Kali never entered Ray's rainbow room.

And Ray telling us the truth feels like a check mark - this! This is the one!

I think either:

a) there are different versions of the event: Where the girls in the room were not El and Kali, but some other two kids, possibly actual siblings.

a.1) this only happened once - and Jane is not El.

b) The original event that keeps weaving itself into the plot his hasn't happened to Terry specifically.

c) Or there was no ''original'' but it keep's repeating to trigger something, or replicate an effect. Somebody finding two ''kids'' in a rainbow room.

This really feels more like a visual and storytelling metafor.

Same with @erikiara80 post about colour green.

Especially with what happened st Ray's place.

El and Kali on different sides of conflict, Kali being the more blood-thirsty, revenge seeking one.

-> Kali and El want to kill Ray. But Kali want it to last, to make him suffer. -> For a moment El listens but then Kali-Gang find the girls in the rainbow room -> El notices a photo frame with Ray and his daughters and doesn't kill him in the end. -> This pisses off Kali, she want to kill him, but El stops her. And they evacuate without killing the guy.

vs. El showing 'empathy'.

But we know that NINA's memories are not entirely trust-worthy... (s4 Owens: how much did you skip?)

This might be a nod to the fact that El doesn't actually relate to the strong emotions Kali is feeling about this. (That El is not Jane, Ray didn't torture her mother.)(Or that they originate from different timelines.)

Oh and, let's not forget about the staring point. The Zombie Boy articles. And how Will-Joyce-Hopper are involved in that scene sequence.

Want it or not, in this color grading, this car looks like Joyce's green pinto.

And this, also, looks like Joyce's green pinto.

Now, why am I suddenly pulling Joyce and Hopper into all of this? Because Hop says a funny line in s2.

"You wanna take him back to Chicago?'' (about Will having episodes. They also mention Boston, where another comic takes place.)

All in all, Hopper discourages Joyce from looking for help anywhere else but HNL.

But take this car parked by Ray's place, take that one line, and take the fact that Ray was not bullshitting El?

And to that let's add that the Zombie Boy event having ''Chief Hopper'' literally written all over the page? Zombie Boy is encircling him for gods sake. (in green) Pointing fingers.

(Which Chief Hopper tho haha)

oh and

I really hope this makes sense. Might not. Hopefully it does.