Don’t get me wrong I love when Hyde texted Jackie about being zen but seeing as Jackie grew up with the more “popular crowd” don’t you think she’d kinda be used to not letting people see her lose it?
Hi Anon!
Respectfully, I completely disagree.
Jackie is an only child to a very wealthy, upper-class family. What we briefly see of Jack Burkhart on screen tells us that though he's largely absent, he's very much fond of his daughter. He gives her a substantial allowance (enough for her to spend a grotesque amount of money on Kelso throughout their relationship), allows her to drive his Lincoln Continental whenever she needs it, and presumably paid for horse-back riding lessons throughout her childhood (speaking from experience, this is not cheap!), to name only a few things.
I don't believe Jackie is a brat (as the writers would like us to believe), but I do think it's clear that her father certainly spoiled her as a child whenever he could. This could be due to a simple belief that his only child should have whatever she wanted, or could be some underlying guilt for being an absent parent -- we don't know enough about Jack to really tell.
My point is, I don't think Jackie was told 'no' a lot as a child. Her more demanding or abrasive (as Hyde puts it) personality traits are likely as a result of this and I believe those are traits she's had for the majority of her life. Until Donna warms up to her in S1, I don't believe Jackie has had a genuine friend her entire life. Jackie's reaction to Donna calling her a friend in 1x17 makes this really obvious to me.
I believe that most of her acquaintances at school merely 'tolerate' her because of her family's wealth and social status. Remember her father is on City Council and a business owner -- altogether a fairly public figure for the relatively small Point Place. Many of her more 'popular' acquaintances at school are probably of a similar social background and there's probably a certain level of 'expectation' for them to be 'friendly'.
Jackie claims to be an 'expert on girl lies' and 'good at lying', but I don't think she's as good at it as she thinks she is. With a few exceptions (usually when her pride is at stake), Jackie is actually not very good at masking her true feelings and is largely ruled by her emotions.
This comparison might not be entirely fair since we only see her for one episode, but Kat Peterson is similarly a 'wealthy popular girl' archetype. If you compare Kat's mannerisms to Jackie's mannerisms, they are almost nothing alike. Kat is aloof, superior, and generally callous. Jackie by comparison is sensitive, passionate, and more often than not generous. Jackie very clearly wears her heart on her sleeve in most episodes we see her in.
Jackie's sheltered upbringing and being spoiled by her father has led her to having this weird combination of confidence and naivety. She sometimes too easily expresses her frustration, impatience, sadness, anger, hurt, etc. and that makes her vulnerable. She allows herself to be manipulated by other people multiple times as a result (e.g. 1x13, 1x15, 2x25, 3x10, almost the entirety of S4, I could go on).
By teaching her 'Zen', Hyde at least teaches her how deal with Laurie's bullying in a more constructive way, as opposed to allowing herself to be constantly baited by her.
As a final note, while we know Jackie is on the cheer squad, the show never actually displays her interacting with that clique meaningfully. Only briefly showing us scenes with Leslie Cannon and Julie. We don't actually know how savvy her interactions with that group are -- though we do know that Jackie was unceremoniously kicked off the cheer squad in S6. This indicates to me that it's more likely she's not got the best relationship with them, and I'm sure Jackie's predisposition to speak her mind and express her feelings contributes to that.
Honestly Fez should not have taken Casey’s advice for very obvious reasons, and this is what I think should’ve gone down.
So there’d still be the grill scene where Casey tries to “advise” Fez and Donna would be chiming in (ugh), but Fez would talk to Hyde about this since they’re still close as this point.
I see it going something like this
HYDE: So you and Rhonda seem to be doing well.
FEZ: Ai, yes. I’m thinking that tonight would finally be that night. I got some very handy advice from Casey and he said that—
HYDE: Hold on, man. You talked to Casey Kelso?
FEZ (naively): And Donna! They actually gave me a lot of good advice.
HYDE: Huh, and what “advice” did they give
Hyde would end up talking some sense into Fez, Fez would listen to that advice, Fez would respond Rhonda’s boundaries and they stay together.
And Hyde will also confront Donna about Casey and Donna would have the same conversation, except he might find a way to ask her about that “advice”. Donna would get defensive since she’s still infatuated with Casey, and she’d storm off (I’ll work out how to add that bit).
Fez and Rhonda would make out like in canon, but Fez would not try to go third base and would respect her boundaries.
Legit the worst thing I can think of that Donna did to Jackie was being unsupportive of her relationship with Hyde. And she got over that a few EPISODES later. Jackie, on the other hand, calls her a ‘big red whore’, insults her height, etc.
I think because Donna is a hated character (which I don’t get? Just because she doesn’t take any bullshit doesn’t mean she’s mean), they’re looking past her amazing loyalty. Jackie is absolutely downright insulting to Donna. She’s constantly pointing out Donna’s insecurities, calling her a “lumberjack”— which is so insulting! Just because Donna likes casual clothes and is tall doesn’t make her a lumberjack. And like you mentioned, Jackie called her a whore. Jackie also continually insulted Eric as well, which Donna protested against numerous times.
I’m sorry, but if my friend insulted me by pointing out my insecurities, and insulted my boyfriend constantly, I wouldn’t be friends with her!
Donna was pretty mean to Jackie in s8, from what I’ve read. I, admittedly, have never seen s8. But I’ve seen video essays on how Donna’s character was totally annihilated, bringing down with it her amazing friendship with Jackie. One of the things I love most about Donna is her loyalty and quickness to forgive; because, like I said above, I wouldn’t stay friends with Jackie.
A Meta Rant About "The Trials of M. Kelso" That Nobody Asked For
(Forewarning, this rant is very long, and it is most certainly a rant.)
I want to preface this with: I think the subplot of Jackie and Kelso getting back together in S3 is in-character and perfectly believable for both of them—it's how it's presented that I take issue with.
Nobody probably wants to talk about it, but in regards to 3x18 "The Trials of M. Kelso" my opinion is this: the most realistic thing that arguably should've happened is that Kelso failed each and every test of Jackie's, only for her to agree to date him again anyways. After all, everyone probably knows someone who went back to a bad relationship in spite of all the good reasons not to.
Making a bad decision to go back to Kelso is understandable character development for Jackie. Negative character development in this case, but one that absolutely makes sense all the same. Especially when one considers how much her self-esteem suffered from her first relationship with him! It would be totally natural for her to have misplaced nostalgia towards Kelso, and maybe even a belief that Kelso and how he treats her is all she deserves.
However, the way the writing tried to suggest that Kelso had somehow developed genuine feelings for Jackie is frankly absurd to me. The fact is Kelso's motivations for being with Jackie in S3 are the same as they were in S1: he wants to be with her for the main purpose of having a physical relationship.
In the pilot, Jackie correctly observes that Kelso doesn't enjoy being with her, but because she's a cute girl who is attracted to him and is willing to "give him some" (i.e. engage sexual activity) he stays with her.
He admits as much in 1x04: [Kelso raises his hand and declares loudly,] "All those who are getting some hands up!" [Neither Hyde nor Fez raise their hand despite Kelso's goading.] "Yeah!" [Kelso says, triumphantly.]
There are numerous other examples of Kelso's interest in Jackie being grounded in their physical relationship and/or her looks throughout their first attempt at a relationship, but how does this apply to S3?
In 3x07, Kelso reveals that he's trying to get back together with Jackie. His reason? "This is a small town with a limited number of women. I've already gone through all of them once, and now I'm back to Jackie." [He then adds to this in an obviously flippant manner.] "Oh, and I love her."
This sentiment of his does not actually change for the remainder of S3, though the writers certainly attempt to portray it as having changed.
While Kelso acknowledges in 3x15 that he realizes his infidelity hurt Jackie (and treats her like a human being worthy of his empathy for perhaps the first time ever), he only does so after he experiences a similar betrayal, because he is selfish and his capacity for empathy is very limited. Importantly, this moment is not connected to him suddenly realizing he has genuine romantic feelings for her and who she is as a person. He is just expressing a feeling of "wow, this really sucks and hurts and now I understand why you were so upset."
The disconnect between this brief moment of empathy he displays with his allegedly "genuine feelings" for Jackie is how the writers essentially kneecap any potential for me to take his supposed character development seriously. Instead of Kelso continuing in the vein of treating Jackie like a person deserving of genuine love and respect, the writers opt for the humor route all the way through.
After Kelso's spontaneous impotence with Pam Macy in 3x16, he has a dream about Jackie and gets an erection. He doesn't think deeply about this at all, and instead immediately calls Pam Macy so that he can have sex because that is ultimately what he wants to do. Jackie later treats him kindly and he has a "realization"—or rather, he has another erection.
Aside from being sexually aroused by Jackie, there is no actual development to his character that points to this meaning he has genuine feelings for her. Jackie hypothesizes that Kelso is 'maturing' and that maybe he 'secretly' didn’t want to have sex with Pam Macy. The latter might be true, but if we're to apply any sense of continuity to the show, Kelso's behavior in S4, S5, early S6, and S7, indicates that Jackie is more likely projecting onto him things she wants to see in him.
The manner in which Jackie projects her own desires onto Kelso about his supposed maturity is a consistent character flaw she displays in both her relationships with Kelso and Hyde. Fundamentally, Kelso is not a serious person and his primary focus when it comes to sex is his own gratification. He is consistently shown not to think deeply about this.
The consistency with Jackie's character flaw about her projecting onto Kelso was likely unintentional by the writers, as they clearly want the audience to take the observation at face value as being legitimate, but the substance and follow-through in later seasons simply is not there to back it up.
In turn, when it becomes apparent to Kelso that he is no longer sexually aroused by Pam Macy, but is still sexually aroused by Jackie, suddenly his interest in her becomes "genuine" and he renews his pursuit of her. His motivations for being with her, however, remain exactly the same as they were at the beginning of the season, and even the same as S1-S2 in my opinion. The fact that his S3 mentality ultimately boils down to "Jackie = erection = I get to have sex = therefore I want to date her again" renders any illusion of his alleged 'character development' hollow.
Further proof is how he approaches his renewed pursuit: by manipulating her in 3x17. He tries to get closer to her by putting on a facade of harmlessly being her friend, but his main driving motivation is to have a physical relationship with her. He literally asks Hyde and Eric "Girlfriends sometimes make out, right?" The writers then input a joke about Kelso suggesting he and Jackie engage in a "nice sweaty pillow fight" [inspired by Hyde's obviously sarcastic comment] because he's hoping it will result in him receiving some form of physical gratification (i.e. her making out with him).
The next episode (3x18), where the infamous reconciliation occurs, is littered with numerous examples of how incompatible Kelso is for Jackie. He is a self-centered, unserious person that, when given the opportunity, will manipulate her to get the outcome he desires. Jackie uses a (debatably) underhanded tactic to test his "faithfulness" and we as the audience are privy to his thoughts during this test.
He restrains himself because Donna has already told him about the tests and he correctly deduces that this is yet another one. However, he has zero problem at least considering the prospect—he even thinks to himself: "My body says yes, my mind says yes".
Now, I'm not trying to call the thought police, but herein lies the issue with the 3x16 suggestion that his arousal is supposedly now connected to his 'deeper' and 'more mature' feelings for Jackie. If his 'body' is saying yes, clearly his spontaneous impotence was pretty soundly because of Pam Macy, and not because he inexplicably developed sincere feelings for Jackie.
He then admits that he knew about the tests all along and this is presented as a "sweet moment" where he's "finally learning to be honest with her" but the audience already knows that he's not being entirely honest even in this moment.
He blatantly states to Donna the night before that should some horrible illness or disfigurement happen to Jackie to impact her looks, he will think she's "gross" and his attitude certainly implies he would dump her immediately. Donna, understandably, expresses complete disgust by this admission.
If the writers really wanted to display his intention to be honest, and maybe even earn a few more laughs, they should've had Kelso say something like: "But you're definitely not going bald, right? Because I'm not into bald chicks."
That alone would've made the scene much more palatable to me, and likewise would've fit the unserious, humor-focused vibe the writers gave the entire relationship reboot attempt between them. They even prove Kelso is incapable of reading the room on when to be or how to be honest with Jackie literally the next episode. Instead, they have this overly saccharine scene that simply falls flat (to me) due to the lack of actual effort to show any real reason, beyond his sexual arousal towards her, for Kelso to have actual feelings for Jackie.
The fact that the genesis of these "newfound feelings" are all related to him being sexually aroused by her basically solidifies to me that his interest in Jackie is purely physical and he does not have (and I would argue never has had) genuine feelings of love for her.
Do I think he has an unhealthy attachment to her because she was his first real girlfriend who he was able to emotionally manipulate into getting what he wanted (i.e. sex, money, attention, emotional support, etc.)? Yes.
Do I think that means he loves her? Hell no!
The presentation of his feelings for her after they reconcile are all 'tell' and no 'show'. The writers tell us his feelings for her are genuine and have him behave differently, but they don't actually show him go through much change at all. His primary goal (i.e. to have sex) remains consistent, but the writers present it as being 'real feelings' with nothing serious or substantial to back it up.
This shoddy attempt at conveying any sort of sincerity to their relationship brings to mind the idiom "lipstick on a pig". The writing changes around Kelso's character in this relationship reboot lack real depth and do very little to mask the fundamental flaws.
Kelso and Jackie are fundamentally bad for each other and while I don't enjoy them being together, I definitely don't see them getting back together in S3 as being out of character. The worst part of their S3-S4 relationship to me is the way the writers attempt to convince the audience that this is supposed to be legitimate character development and that his feelings for her are genuine. However, the way its presented simply makes this impossible for at least me to take seriously.
I want to see your thoughts! If you had full creative control, how would Eric and Donna’s couple arcs look in S6 and S7?
Hellooo!
I get into a few details on this post about things I might've liked to have seen for Eric and Donna in S6 and S7. Majority of my fics may touch on certain things from that list -- that is to say, I'll doubt I'll ever write Eric or Donna rushing to plan a big wedding, taking a year or two off instead of going to college, or going to Africa lol.
If I had full creative control, instead of Red, Kitty, and Bob being so (imo unnecessarily) irate about the engagement, I would've had them all focused on trying to cram as many life lessons into their remaining high school months as possible in order to set Eric and Donna up for success. After all, if Eric and Donna both clearly state they have no intention of breaking off their engagement, continuing to try and pressure them to do so is just an exercise in time wasting (for all parties) -- they might as well have pivoted and done the best with the time available to them.
Plus, I think the parents trying to hammer in life lessons, much to Eric and Donna's chagrin, would've been a lot funnier than the parents just being unhappy about it. It could've given us opportunities to see Red and Donna interact more (since I think it goes without saying that Donna would be the handier one around the apartment/house). Eric and Kitty could've had scenes where Eric tries to learn how cook -- especially after Donna feeds him under-cooked chicken lol.
This would all culminate in Eric and Donna navigating living together in S6 and S7. They could've had call backs to episodes like 3x11, where they both have midterms to study for but they're distracting each other and what not. Maybe they have to organize a chore schedule and Eric makes the mistake of referring to it as "Blue Jobs and Pink Jobs" (something I've heard some couples do), and the disagreement over that.
Maybe they can keep in certain subplots that exist, like Donna missing a pill in her birth control and how they deal with that (without it ending in the 'abstinence until the wedding' subplot, obviously).
One thing I do think they could've considered for a later episode (assuming S7 remained the final season as intended), is Donna getting an opportunity to study abroad. She mentions having dreams of doing so as far back as S3, and it might have been nice to revisit that only for her to want both to take the opportunity, but also maintain her engagement with Eric.
Ultimately I would end such a conflict with a compromise that is also a happy ending (either Eric says he's willing to wait for her and wants her to take advantage of the opportunity, or Eric offers to look into options for him to study abroad and go with her). Which would feel like, to me, bringing their story full circle.
At least it would've been a lot better than whatever the hell the Africa thing was.
If for Halloween Jackie went as someone out blonde hair (causing her to wear a blonde wing) do you think Hyde would like it? I feel like Jackie could of pulled off blonde hair
Hi Anon!
I don't think Hyde would think deeply about it one way or the other, to be honest. If it was a fun or sexy costume, he'd like it because it was fun or sexy in a general sense. If it was a lame costume, he'd think it was lame. Whether or not Jackie wore a blonde wig wouldn't really make much of a difference to him.
Although Hyde seems to find blondes aesthetically appealing in the show (e.g. opting for Mary over Patty initially in 2x09), I don't think Jackie's hair color plays a defining factor in his attraction towards her. After all, Hyde also comments about his attraction towards big breasts and older girls, neither of which apply to Jackie.
Hyde likes Jackie, therefore Hyde likes the hair that is on Jackie's head, if that makes sense.
Respectfully, I disagree with the suggestion that Jackie could pull off blonde hair. Not that she'd look terrible (she could never look terrible), but Jackie has very, very dark brown hair. The process of lifting her hair several shades up to blonde would be arduous at best, risky at worst. While I am not a hairstylist, I worked as a hairstylist's assistant years ago and I'm also someone who has had blonde hair for the majority of my life.
The effort to treat her hair (especially back in the 70s and 80s) to maintain it blonde would likely result in it getting fried to some degree. There are also many opportunities for things to go awry during the color treating processes, even in the hands of professionals. I'm talking orange hair, highlighter yellow roots, green hair, etc.
This is all not accounting for her eyebrows, which would remain dark unless she bleached those too.
Ultimately, I think with Jackie's skin tone and eyes, she looks much better as a brunette with nearly black hair. And I think Hyde would be happy with how she looked even if she never bleached or color treated her hair -- but let's be real, it's unlikely she'd ever allow greys to remain unaddressed.
What do you think jakcies wedding dress might look like?
Hi Anon!
Ooo this is a fun question! Well, let's take a look at the wedding dress she wears in 6x18:
The ruffles and poofy accents mostly stay in style for the 80s which is when I presume Hyde and Jackie would be getting married. Although with Princess Diana's wedding dress in 1981, the sleeves get even poofier! But I have a feeling that Jackie would stay away from big, heavy satin poofy sleeves around her shoulders. She makes a remark that implies she doesn't like shoulder pads for women when she's trying to help Rhonda be more feminine, and I think that she would worry about sleeves being too big or overpowering her 'natural beauty and charms'. She might just go with a very similar dress to the one she wears in the show (especially since it was the one that Hyde said she looked beautiful in).
Otherwise, taking a cursory look around ebay and other vintage shops, I was able to find some vintage dresses I think she might be drawn to -- mostly inspired by her prom night dress, actually. They have sleeves, but also a lot of lace. I think these options are romantic and princess like:
Image one (found on ebay), and Image 2 (vintage bridal store)
I was also able to find a Buzzfeed article showing off some vintage 80s wedding photos highlighting the dresses. I also think, if Jackie was interested in an off-the-shoulder style, Number 16 on this list might be something she would be interested in (though I don't think she would go with those bridesmaid dresses).
Overall, I think she would go with a style that was very feminine and romantic.
Jackie is my favorite character, finding her to have multiple layers, and such a dynamic personality!
However, one thing I didn't care for, and this could be for my own personal reasons, is that she kicks when she doesn't get her way. I've often wondered why they had her character do that. I'm sure it was supposed to be funny or cute, but that type of physical violence bothered me. And maybe, I'm overreaching and it's not considered physical violence? I wish they would have had her character deal with her emotions a different way. If one of the guys kicked one of the girls when they were upset, I don't think it would be acceptable.
Given it's one of her trademark characteristics to kick shins, I wish she wouldn't have kicked Hyde, especially given his background with his mother. Let me be clear in that in no way am I comparing Jackie to Edna. Edna was vile. I only wish Jackie's character didn't kick.
As said, this could be just something personal given my background experience, and I may be overthinking something where there's nothing to overthink.
I appreciate your time and perspective.
Hi Anon!
I understand and agree with your perspective for the most part! Hitting/kicking others is generally not an acceptable way to process one's emotions -- and in the real world it is, fundamentally, assault.
That said, I don't think the writers/directors thought very deeply about this habit of Jackie's. I think it was mostly done, as you mention, for laughs about this 'tiny cheerleader expressing her annoyance in kicks or hits'. Likewise, the writers outright ignoring or glazing over the nuances of Jackie kicking Hyde in the shins given his pre-established history with physical abuse as a child is upsetting, whether it was done intentionally or not doesn't matter.
However, it's also worth mentioning that physical altercations are a core part of the show's humor, for better or for worse. Donna frequently asserts that she can beat up all of the guys in the group, and she does so multiple times -- towards Kelso in particular. Hyde punches Kelso numerous times throughout the series, as well as occasionally the other guys if they've annoyed him. Eric punches and beats up Kelso a couple of times. Donna and Jackie slap each other's sunburns after a minor argument. Donna and Jackie occasionally pinch each other. Kelso makes a comment alluding to him choking Jackie that's apparently supposed to be funny.
For what it's worth, I don't think Jackie hitting or kicking someone just because she "didn't get her way" is actually very common in the show.
When I think about instances where Jackie gets physical, it's usually because she's been pushed to that point by others. Some examples:
Laurie bullying her,
Kelso telling her he lied about an outfit being 'pretty' and that she actually looked 'pretty skanky',
And kicking Hyde in the hospital was clearly a defense mechanism because he was making her feel vulnerable after he'd cheated on her/broken her heart.
Ultimately, I don't think Jackie would ever kick or hit someone with the intention to do serious physical harm and I think the writers do mean it to be 'harmless' for the laughs.
I would also say Jackie exhibits the most concern for others' physical safety/well-being more than anyone else in the group. Even Eric laughs about Fez getting beat up in S3. Some examples of her demonstrated concern:
She's very protective of Kelso after he falls off the water tower in S1,
She's the one who is tending to Donna's 'bite wound' from Laurie in S2,
When she thinks Hyde fell off the water tower in S5, she rushes down to the hospital to check on him even though she is still devastated over what he'd done to her,
And she's the one who brings up how unsafe what they're doing with the canoe in S6 is.
While Jackie kicking Hyde in the shin isn't really that cute of a habit (despite the writers attempts to make it so), I usually chalk this up to the show's focus on physical comedy and a lack of sensitivity around Hyde's childhood abuse.
Those are some of my thoughts around it! Thanks for the ask! 💖
