#thengel

[from-the-coffee-shop-in-edoras]

Unwilling, for the WIP ask game please!

It’s very fitting for you to have picked this one given our shared interest in the House of Thengel, because this is my big Morwen fic! It follows the outlines of my HC for her, which you’re already broadly familiar with — she’s clever and ambitious and naturally politically minded but feels herself wasting away in the flowery pleasantness of Lossarnach, where absolutely nothing interesting ever happens… until she meets a thoroughly average seeming guy on a quick trip to Minas Tirith and discovers he’s the heir in exile to the throne of Rohan. He might not want it, but she does!

Here is Morwen right after discovering that the guy she couldn’t spare a moment’s thought for five minutes ago is suddenly MUCH more of interest:

Heir to the throne? That didn’t seem right. Not for the unassuming man she’d met that afternoon. The weak-chinned, middle aged man who had barely strung together three stammering words in her presence. Though even as she thought back on him now, she could already feel that perception changing. The chin was kind of adorable actually, and the graying hair distinguished. Even his shyness could be a virtue. It could portend a deep thinker, someone who only spoke when he was certain he had something of value to say. That might be true. But, really, it didn’t matter what he might be. It mattered what he was, and that was a way out of beautiful, peaceful, painfully boring Lossarnach. For good.

(No offense to Thengel and his middle aged graying temples — I quite like a silver fox myself — but he was nearly 20 years older than her and I feel like that’s relevant!)

[celeluwhenfics]

Here’s one for thoughts now, later or never, depending on how you feel about it…

Got any headcanons or opinions about the 3 sisters of Théoden who weren’t Théodwyn??? What they were like, where they were during the events that we’re all familiar with, what their relationship with Théoden was like, etc.? It’s bonkers to me that we know they exist and that he preferred Théodwyn to the other sisters but that’s. literally. it!

Omg what a good question! Thank you for leading my thoughts in that direction. There is SO MUCH to unpack there, and even more to imagine, because as you said Tolkien left us a lot of room there (euphemism of the month). I will allow myself to add Morwen Steelsheen to this reflection, because I think it makes sense to link her to her daughters, and similar questions arise around her character.

But I’m a scientist, so let’s think about this rationally and stay organized. I will answer in four parts (I’m not sorry about it)

1. What the canon actually says 2. What are the possibilities, what must be ruled out and why 3. Why I will NOT be going there with my current WIP pHORSEuasion 4. Freeform headcanons I still have on this matter!

Part 1: Deep dive in the canon

Most of what we know about Thengel’s family comes from a couple paragraphs in Appendix A. I have laid out this information in a timeline, with the following assumptions, which can be contested, but that’s what I chose to work from: -Only one child is born per year -There are no twins in the family -The first child of a couple is born at earliest one year after their wedding -Ages given assume a birthday on January 1st. If the actual birthday happens after the event in the calendar year, the character would technically be one year “younger”

2905: Thengel born in Rohan 2922: Morwen born in Gondor 2943: Thengel (age 38) and Morwen (age 21) marry in Gondor Between 2944 and 2947: First daughter born in Gondor 2948: Théoden born in Gondor Between 2949 and 2953: Second daughter born in Gondor 2953: Thengel (age 48) becomes king of Rohan Between 2953 and 2962: Third daughter born in Rohan 2963: Théodwyn is born in Rohan. She is described as “a child of his (Thengel's) age” (Thengel is then 58 and Morwen is 41). 2977 or before: Théoden (age 29 or less) and Elfhild (age unknown) marry in Rohan 2978: Théodred born in Rohan. Elfhild (age unknown) dies 2980: Thengel (age 75) dies. Théoden (age 32) becomes king of Rohan 2989: Théodwyn (age 26) and Éomund (age unknown) marry in Rohan 2991: Éomer born in Rohan 2995: Éowyn born in Rohan 3002: Éomund (age unknown) and Théodwyn (age 39) die. Éomer is then 11 and Éowyn is 7 3017: Éomer becomes Third Marshal (age 26) 3019: Théodred (age 41) and Théoden (age 71) die. Éomer (age 28) becomes king of Rohan. Éowyn (age 24) and Faramir (age 36) marry in Rohan 3020 or later: Elboron, son of Éowyn and Faramir, born in Gondor. 3021: Éomer (age 30) and Lothiriel (age 22) marry Early Fourth Age: Elfwine, son of Lothiriel and Éomer, born in Rohan. Fourth Age 63: Éomer (age 91) dies Fourth Age 82: Faramir (age 120) dies

Therefore, we have at the start of the War of the Ring, let’s say in January 3019: Definitely alive: -Théoden -Théodred -Éomer -Éowyn

Possibly alive (no canonical death): -Morwen (age 97, but she is of Dunedain descent, so a long life is possible) -Her three eldest daughters, with ages between 75 (if the eldest was born right after their parents' wedding, in 2944) and 57 (if the third daughter was born right before Théodwyn, in 2962)

A few extra notes on the canon

One thing that I had not fully realized before, is that Théodred is born and Elfhild dies when Théoden is not yet king. Therefore: -Thengel technically met Théodred (he was 2 years old when his grandfather died) -Elfhild, although Théoden's wife, was never queen of Rohan -When Lothiriel becomes queen, Rohan has not had a queen since Morwen, 41 years earlier, at the death of Thengel in 2980 -Théodwyn was only 15, or going on 15, at that time. (I know that I have read somewhere the headcanon that she cared for Théodred from his birth, which is valid and possible, however in my opinion her age makes it doubtful that she would have been the main carer and parental figure.) -Théoden ascends to the throne whilst bearing not only the immediate grief of his father, but also the relatively recent (2 years) loss of his wife.

Of Théodwyn, we know that she was “the fairest” and “her brother loved her dearly”. After her husband was killed, she “took sick and died to the great grief of the king”. Théoden then “took [her children] into his house, calling them son and daughter”.

And we learn a little about Morwen when Éowyn is described: “Éowyn was slender and tall, with a grace and pride that came to her out of the South from Morwen of Lossarnach, whom the Rohirrim had called Steelsheen.” (I must say that I am questioning this past perfect “had called”. It sounds like Morwen is not there anymore, otherwise past simple “called” would have been used. But then, it is hard to pinpoint when in time the narrator is placing themselves in this passage. If referring to Éowyn’s early adult life, it would be a clue in the direction that Morwen is not alive anymore by the War of the Ring, or at least that she is not in Rohan anymore. If referring to an undefined point at the moment of writing in the Fourth Age, it means nothing at all. But we’re now at the level of microscopic details from the text!)

Part 2/4 coming eventually in a reblog!

[torchwood-99]

Headcanon: Morwen Steelsheen loved Rohan more than Thengel.

Thengel left Rohan and made a new home in Gondor, and returned to Rohan "reluctantly". After his return, he held onto Gondorean customs ("though the speech of Gondor was used in his house, and not all men thought that good"), and while he loved his land and ruled it well, he perhaps held on a lingering contempt for his homeland, and a preference for Gondor.

Morwern was nicknamed Morween Steelsheen by the people of Rohan. Such a nickname really suggests respect and admiration from the people, which isn't a small feat, considering we know that the speech of Gondor being used at court was not something everyone approved of.

I think Morwen was attracted to Thengel partially because of his Rohirric birth. I think she was fascinated with the legends of Shieldmaidens and was felt a calling to the wild land of the horse lords. While Thengel returned to Rohan grudgingly, Morwen was excited to reside in a land that had been a fascination for her for years, and on arrival it felt almost like a homecoming.

Her beauty and grace, combined with her obvious admiration for Rohan, and her knowledge of their history and customs (something she had made a study of before she even married Thengel) made her extremely popular, and improved Thengel's popularity as well.

[tolkien-povs]

"Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-Earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep for not all tears are an evil." ~Gandalf

R.I.P Bernard Hill. You were a king in the hearts of many. All your years of acting, pouring so much zeal, passion, and love into your work have made you amongst the most beloved of human beings.

Becoming among the few of the most renowned actors, starring in two of the only three films in history who have 11 Oscars, has made you a respected king.

A king of acting, in the eyes of your fans and viewers alike.

But in the hearts of us, you are the uncle of Éowyn and Éomer. The father of Théodred. The brother of Théodwyn. The son of Thengel and Morwen Steelsheen.

The Lord of the Mark.

The Horsemaster.

The Father of Horse-men.

Théoden Ednew.

The King of Rohan.

[anghraine]

@brynnmclean:

#'thengel's monsterfucking legacy' is KILLING ME elizabeth#i am laughing SO HARD#lord of the rings#dunedain#numenoreans#truly cackling

Normally I'm happy to leave many of my thoughts in the tags, but I'm currently in a moment where I felt that was the one that absolutely needed to be in the main body of my reblog :P

[arofili]

men of middle-earth ♞ house of éorl ♞ headcanon disclaimer

        Thengel was the son of Fengel, and the sixteenth King of Rohan. He quarreled often with his father, a greedy and incompetent king, and left Rohan in his youth to serve under Steward Turgon of Gondor. There he met and married Morwen Steelsheen of Lossarnach, a descendant of an offshoot branch of the Princes of Dol Amroth, a proud and noble woman whom he loved greatly.           Morwen bore him five children in all, four daughters and one son. The eldest was Frithild, a gentle woman whose heart remained always in her birthplace of Gondor. Then came Thengel’s heir Théoden, likewise born in Gondor, but raised a prince of Rohan with the understanding of his place in the line of succession.           Shortly before the birth of Thengel and Morwen’s third child, Mereliss, word came to Gondor of Fengel’s death. Reluctantly, Thengel returned to his land of origin and was crowned King of Rohan. Despite his yearning to return to Gondor, Thengel was a wise and firm king, much more respected by his people. During his reign, the wizard Saruman took full control of Isengard and began to fortify it, which troubled Thengel for a reason he could not name.           Then appeared the ranger Thorongil, a mysterious warrior who entered into the king’s service for a time. Thorongil rode at Thengel’s side against any enemies that dared cross into the borders of Rohan, earning the king’s trust and friendship before he heeded the summons of Steward Ecthelion II and went to Gondor.           Thorongil remained in Rohan long enough to see the birth of Shadufled, fourth of Thengel’s children, and with his foresight guided Thengel and Morwen in how best to raise the babe he Saw would chafe against the expectations of a Lady and wish sometimes to be a Lord instead. True to his predictions, Shadufled grew to express both masculine and feminine qualities, and remembering Thorongil’s advice, their parents were able to support them as they discovered themself.           The last of Thengel and Morwen’s children was Théodwyn, fairest of their daughters and kindest of heart. She and her siblings were raised with the customs of Gondor, the land of their mother’s origin and of their father’s heart. Sindarin was the daily tongue of Thengel’s house, along with Westron, and his children used Rohirric only to converse with their friends outside their home.

[witchkings]

*jumps on bandwagon* So, I wasted long hours creating my favourite royal family from Lord of the Rings on Artbreeder.

Thengel

Théoden and his wife Elfhild

Their son Théodred

Théodwyn and her husband Éomund

Their children Éomer and Éowyn

Eómer’s wife Lothíriel and her cousin/Éowyn’s husband Faramir

Bonus: Elfwine (Éomer’s and Lothíriel’s son) and Elboron (Éowyn’s and Faramir’s son)

[lesbiansforboromir]

You know what, this is a side step but no one talks about Theoden’s dad enough and his fucking buck WILD life. Thengel was just a kid but he realised his dad was just a cruel, vicious and heartless son of a bitch and was just like ‘I’m OUT’. That baby princeling grabbed his horse and ran away from home!! And came to Gondor!! That was his instinct, it wasn’t enough to leave Edoras, Thengel wanted to be safe and he wanted to be as far from his dad as possible. And really what an absolutely mind blowing portion of diplomatic history between these two countries ey? Turgon lovingly accepts Thengel into his court, totally supports him, obviously quietly hated Fengel too but what the hELL was Fengel gonna do about it?? “Give me back my son.” They aren’t keeping him, he’s here of his own free will, “Then I will come and take him back.” Sorry that’s a no, Gondor doesn’t allow the kidnapping of foreign dignitaries on our soil :)

And then Thengel’s like ‘I think I’ll also become a hero of Gondor too :D’ and just DOES, he fights in it’s wars and wins himself so much distinction that one of the most elligible noble ladies in the whole country accepts his pursuit. That’s WILD. I’m 99% sure that’s the first time a person of noble Gondor lineage takes someone of Rohan to wed. It’s almost funny, it’s like Thengel forgets Rohan even exists or that he has any attachment too it until Fengel goes and dies and he realises he does actually have to go back and run this country he hasn’t set foot in since he was 14. But then he DOES and by all accounts does an essentially good job at it. What a fellow.