Hello! I'm sorry to bother you, but I was wondering how long you studied Japanese for until you became good enough to do manga translations? (Or fluently read manga at all, really 😔) I want to help contribute to projects like that, but I feel I still have a long way to go until then 🤧
so first off: sorry this took so long to reply to! when I first got the message I had exactly Zero free time, and then i simply forgor (whoops lol)
I actually already have a few posts sort of about this in my #translation tips tag, but it's been a hot minute so I might as well provide some updated info~
(under the readmore 'cause it's longggggggg)
How long have I studied Japanese?
A While. I had maybe a not so typical journey with Japanese... If you break it down it looks kinda like this:
4 years of watching a TON of anime to pick up basic vocab just by ear (this was in high school- I did not take any actual classes or even make any effort to learn the language at this point, but apparently I'm pretty good at just picking up things from hearing them)
4 1/2 years of actual Japanese classes in college (actual learning with like teachers and textbooks and homework)
1/2 year of study abroad that I managed to cram in before I graduated (additional classes and also constant speaking the language)
8 1/2 years since then (god has it really been that long???) (no actual like... studying during this time, but a LOT of translating... mostly Saiki)
So.... 13-ish years? if you don't count the first 4 that were just watching anime. And technically only 5 of them were actual "studying".
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How long did I study before doing manga translating?
I, uh….. I actually started translating manga about a month BEFORE I ever took a single Japanese language class.
(not recommended but like… here I am lol)
I had found some volumes of Pyu to Fuku Jaguar(a gag manga I really liked but only had 3 volumes translated at the time) at a used bookstore, but they were in Japanese so I just kind of bought them, downloaded an english to japanese dictionary app, printed out a hiragana/katakana chart, and then just went through the book: looking up one letter at a time, sounding out words, looking them up in the dictionary. I already knew a lot of vocab and had a vague feel for grammar exclusively from watching anime, but like also there was a loooooooot of looking stuff up. I don't remember exactly how long it took to read that first volume (at least a month lol- maybe 2 or more)
I noticed the scan group for Pyu to Fuku Jaguar was updating really slow (and/or had notices that they needed more translators? I forget it's been over a decade lol) So I figured: I can understand this well enough just reading it on my own.... maybe I can help???? it's probably better than nothing right?? So I tried my hand at doing some translations and uploaded them to the newbie board of a manga translation side to have people proofread, and then I emailed the group to ask if I could join. If I remember correctly they only ended up posting one (or none) of my translations?? before disappearing so I just kind of kept doing the translations on my own without uploading them anywhere
and then later when a new group took over they had gotten my translations from the previous group (or was it the translation site where I uploaded some?) and credited me in the release, so I sent them a message like "hey neato! I actually have like 5 more translations done, u want em?" and ended up joining THAT group to continue working on the series!
I started taking classes p soon after starting the translations, and doing translation while taking classes was actually really nice 'cause I had a place to pretty much immediately apply the things I learned in class, and the translating outside of class gave me a lot of practice for reading & a good head start for learning new vocab.
Honestly I think for translating, being good at the language you're translating into is more important than being good at the language you're translating from. Like: you should still at least SORT of know the language you're translating from (that is an important part of it too don't get me wrong) But like even if someone is perfectly fluent in Japanese, if they're translating into English but don't know how to make words sound good in English, then it kind of defeats the purpose haha.
(reading a lot and paying close attention to wording and stuff, and also reviewing and revising your translations will help with that part of the translation process- it's also a skill you pick up as you go)
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Tips for getting better at reading Japanese?
Honestly I think translating is one of the best ways to get better at Japanese (understanding and reading at least- it won't necessarily do much to help you remember how to write or speak haha) Reading is helpful to some extent, but you will probably get to a point where you understand enough of it to get the gist of whats happening, but then your brain will just sort of skim over a lot of the parts you don't know in the interest of enjoying the story without stopping. When you translate though, you're FORCED to stop and look up every word or phrase you don't know and double check things and sort of sit on them and think what it means and how you would say it in your own language.
If you're self motivated enough you can probably get some good learning out of language apps like duolinguo or babel or whatever, or even just buying Japanese textbooks/workbooks and going through them by yourself. Otherwise, taking Japanese classes is the standard approach (even if you don't go to a school where they offer Japanese classes, there are private options- just google Japanese classes or Japanese tutors online or in your area if you prefer in person)
This old post of mine has some more detailed tips for how to look things up, and some just general translating tips that I think are still p useful, but it pretty much boils down to "google everything you don't know until you know it"
also the 10ten extension is good for highlighting/translating individual japanese words in your browser (when they're written in kanji or kana) and the google translate app is good for taking pictures of text and reading it so you know what the dang kanji says (or you can hand write the kanji in there too- though I need to find a better kanji dictionary app 'cause google's doesn't really give you enough space to write)
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Sorry this ended up WAY longer than I thought it would but I hope it helped!
طُلب مني هذا الطلب منذ فترة و أود في البداية الاعتذار عن التأخير.سأشارككم ان شاء الله في هذا المنشور ملاحظات و نصائح حول هذا الموضوع.
1- في البداية، قم بقراءة الفقرة قراءة سريعة للتعرف على الموضوع العام. بإمكانك أيضًا أن تكتب بعض الملاحظات كالأفكار الرئيسية أو الكلمات المفتاحية keywords.
انتبه جيدًا للجمهور المستهدف و كيفية مخاطبته : هل ما ستقوم بترجمته مقال عن الركود الاقتصادي في أحد البلدان؟ أم هو مقارنة يعنى بآخر صيحات الموضة للفتيات؟ هل المقال جدي أم يخالطه المزاح؟ و بالطبع فإن نوعية الخطاب و الأسلوب ستختلف باختلاف المقال و يجب الانتباه لذلك جيدًا عند الترجمة.
2- قم بالبحث عن الكلمات المفتاحية، و تجنب الترجمة الحرفية قدر المستطاع فقد يكون لنفس الكلمة عدة ترجمات تختلف باختلاف السياق لهذا عليك أن تترجم جملًا لا كلمات و أن تحاول قدر المستطاع الربط بين الجمل. هذه الخطوة هي خطوة الترجمة المبدئية.
3- عند قيامك بالترجمة، لا تنس أن الهدف هو أن تحصل على مقال قائم بحد ذاته بلغة أخرى. وهذا يعني أن القارئ يجب ألا يشعر أن المقال مترجم (أن الجمل التي فيه ذات وقع غريب على الأذن).
قد نضطر لكتابة مثل يقابل مثلًا مذكورًا، مثلًا عبارة divide and conquer باللغة الانجليزية لا يجب أن تترجم حرفيًا بقول : "قَسّم و انتصر"حيث أن المقولة العربية المعروفة والمقابلة لهذه الفكرة هي "فرق تسد".
كما أن المقولة العربية "الناس للناس" إذا ترجمت حرفيًا للغة الانجليزية ستكون the people are for the peopleو سيعجب القارئ من هذه المقولة العجيبة لذلك يفضل التوضيح بقول people are there for each other على سبيل المثال.
4- قم بمراعاة الفروق بين الثقافتين، فما قد يكون معلوماَ عند إحدى الثقافات أو بديهيًا في أحد البلدان قد يجهله آخرون في بلاد أخرى.
على سبيل المثال كلمة : fourth of July عند سكان الولايات المتحدة الأمريكية مرتبط في الأذهان بيوم الاستقال ولكن في سبيل التوضيح يفضل أن يقوم المترجم بإضافة "عيد الاستقلال" للتوضيح.
5- سأكرر هذه النصيحة مرة أخرى : تجنب الترجمة الحرفية ولا تبالغ في الترجمة : حاول أن تتجنب تغيير الأسلوب الخطابي لمقال. إن كان المقال موضوعيًا عليك الالتزام بالموضوعية عند الترجمة و ألا تستعمل كلمات مشحونة أو قد تحتمل معانٍ معينة تعكس آرائك ومشاعرك الشخصية التي قد تختلف عن المقال الأصلي و ما أراد الكاتب نقله.
6- اترك المقال قليلًا ثم عد إليه لمقارنة النسختين و لمراجعة الأخطاء النحوية و تصحيحها.
7- بإمكانك أيضًا أن تقوم بقراءة المقال المترجم بصوت عالٍ حيث أن سماعك للمقال قد يساعدك بملاحظة أخطاء لم تنتبه عليها عند القراءة الأولية.
8- قم بقراءة مقالات و كتب مترجمة باللغتين و قارن بين النسخة الأصلية و الترجمة. لاحظ الاختلافات و أوجه التشابه بين الجمل ودون الكلمات والجمل التي أعجبتك.
بإمكانك أيضًا أن تتمرن على ترجمة صفحة من كتاب أو مقال ثنائي اللغة bilingual ثم أن تقوم بمقارنة ترجمتك بالنسخة المترجمة في الكتاب نفسه.
9-بإمكانك أيضًا أن تقوم بمثل هذا التمرين عند مشاهدة الأفلام المترجمة : قارن بين الترجمة و ما تقوله الشخصيات.
اجعل لك عادة تدون 10 كلمات جديدة عند مشاهدة فيلم جديد أو 3 جمل باللغتين. لا تكن سلبيًا و حاول الاستفادة من كل فرصة للتعلم.
9- لا تشعر بالاحباط إن أخطأت. ولا تقس على نفسك.ضع أهدافًا واقعية ولاتحمل نفسك أكثر من طاقتها. و إن أمكن، حاول أن تبحث على فرص تدريب مع مترجم محترف كي يعطيك ملاحظات و يساعدك على اكتشاف أخطائك و تصحيحها.
10- فكر بالتخصص بنوع معين من الترجمة فهذا سيفيدك فيما بعد و سيساعدك على التطور بشكل أسرع، على سبيل المثال هناك الترجمة القانونية، أو قد تفضل أن تترجم مقالات صحفية، أما إن كانت المقالات والبحوث العلمية تستهويك فبإمكانك التركيز على هذا النوع من الترجمة.
It might not be the best I’ve ever heard, and it certainly isn’t the most appropriate for this moment in time, but the advice I most often need to hear is: You’ve got to get out. Take a walk. At the very least, these days, leave the screen and stand by a window. So much work can happen while you’re not working.
Natascha Bruce, in this week’s Ten Questions; read the rest at pw.org!
Hello! Thank you for your Saiki scanlations. How long have you studied Japanese? Did you study abroad? Any tips on translating or language improvement?
Thanks for the message! I studied 4 years of japanese in college and a half year of study abroad- then I've been translating for like 3 after graduation, so that's like... 7-8 years total?
Anyway here are my tips!
Study Tools: School definitely helps (especially for kanji) since it gives you a tailor made lesson plan with built in practice partners. BUT school is also expensive. If you're diligent enough for self study and want to save money: Go find some textbook PDFs and use those to study. Genki books one and two for beginners, then Tobira after that. (iirc Tobira has a little overlap with the Genki 2 book and isn't as well organized/easy to follow as the Genki books, so it's a bit of an awkward transition, but stick with it!)
Kanji: Make flashcards. I'm p sure there are some premade Genki flashcards online you can print out, and maybe some for Tobira too? Making your own is probably more effective (but also more time consuming). Do the kanji on one side, the reading + meaning on the back. That way you can go through them on one side to learn how to read the kanji, and then one side to learn how to write the kanji. Try to make flashcards with full words/kanji compounds on them, and not just the individual kanji. ie. Flashcards with 行く and 旅行 are going to be much more useful than just 行. You can also try some flashcard apps if you don't want all the physical cards: Anki's the only one I've used but it's p good.
Vocab/Grammar: tbh translating manga has been my best study tool and has resulted in the most improvement for me personally. It helps if you have someone who can look over your translations for you, but even if you don't: just having to google the words/phrases/grammar you don't know is super helpful. Plus it's way more fun than just reading textbooks. Reading manga in japanese or playing games in japanese helps too, but it's way more tempting to just skip over the words you don't know that way. When you translate, you're forced to look EVERYTHING up. Start with Shonen/Shoujo manga that's got the little furigana to help you read the Kanji. The vocab is also a little kinder in those. Give Seinen/Josei a go once you're ready to struggling with kanji.
Listening: I don't know what to say about how to improve listening skill. By the time I started taking classes I had already pumped my ears full of japanese anime/music non-stop for all of high school, so I was already p good at picking up stuff. Just listen to as much japanese media as you can I guess?
Speaking: You just gotta practice. If you're in school, then you should be able to practice in class. If you're doing self study, you could also try Japanese Language meetups, which is apparently a thing that people do to go to practice speaking japanese with other people who also want to practice speaking Japanese. I learned about this when I was job hunting, and then never actually tried it. Also if you're having problems with pronunciation, somehow singing a word is easier to pronounce than saying it- so maybe give karaoke a try?
Do you have advice on how to improve on translating? Also, what made you want to start translating? Major props to you for translating Saiki because Akechi Touma’s lines kinda make me wanna die inside.
Thanks!!! (though tbh Akechi’s blathering is not NEARLY as bad as the non-stop puns/obscure references lol)
For what made me start translating:I found some Pyu to Fuku Jaguar raws for cheap at a used bookstore and started learning Japanese so I could read them. Once I got a little faster at reading, I noticed the Jaguar scanlation team had lost their translator, so I offered to join. My first translations were super not great (the only reason they’re even somewhat accurate is because Mangahelpers was more active at the time and I posted my translations there in the forums for people to proofread/asked for help whenever there was any kanji/grammar I got stuck on.
(If you want to go read my first translation, it’s ch62 of Pyu to Fuku! Jaguar. …Looking at it now, there’s so many places I could’ve translated better lol)
Since then I’ve gotten a lot better:
So here’s my hot tips on how to get better at translating!!!(under the readmore ‘cause it’s looong)
The number one thing that I recommend is… Just Translate! Pick up some raws and start doing some translations! They’re probably gonna be bad at first but who cares! You gotta start somewhere! Translating forces you to think about how to actually translate stuff and makes you look up words/grammar you don’t know. If you’re translating for a group/actually releasing your translations: You’ve got deadlines now! People looking forward to your translations! You’ve got consequences that will make it harder for you to slack off and drop your studies!
Google things! Whenever there’s a word/phrase/grammar that you don’t know: Google it! Google is a translators best friend!!!
Here’s some keywords I use:“[vocab/phrase in japanese] 英語で” will give you a google translate of the vocab, and if you scroll down a little like a weblio page or something with some translations for the vocab (the weblio/other pages are usually more accurate than the google translate option).
“[grammar in japanese] grammar” - Example 食べさせた (tabesaseta). Can’t remember what the -saseta verb ending meants? (I don’t blame you lol) Google “させた grammar” and you’ll get some pages in english explaining it along with several examples.
Have another translator proofread your translations! They can help you with vocab/grammar, parts that you misread, or even just suggest different ways to translate things that might fit better in different situations. The first scanlation group I was in did this and I learned soooo much that way! I don’t know how many other groups do this though (or how many other groups even have more than one translator) so maybe I just lucked out!
Fun fact! If something seems out of place when you’re reading/translating, it’s probably one of the following:a). A pun/cultural reference. b). A specific phrase/saying that shouldn’t be taken literally. (Googling the entire phrase will usually give you an equivelant phrase or appropriate definition in English.)c). Some weird grammar that you’re translating wrong (do a deep google: a lot of grammar forms have multiple meanings/change meaning based on very small factors/are very similar sounding to other different grammar forms)
Understand that a literal translation is not always a good or accurate translation: There’s some famous Natsume Souseki shenanigans where the line “I love you” was translated as “The moon is beautiful” in Japanese, because of how Japanese people are more shy or something and would never say “I love you straight out”. Natsume Souseki is valid- some things when you translate directly lose their nuance and change the meaning to something completely different.
That being said, changing TOO much will also ruin your translation. It’s a fine balance.The point is: once you understand what the Japanese says, you gotta think “okay now how would they say this in English?” If this series were originally in English, how would the author write that dialogue? What is the main point that needs to get across and what is the tone and how do you accurately convey both of those in English?
Consume! Consume media! Read stuff! Watch TV! Listen Learn how people talk! Get a bunch of English vocabulary up in your head and save it for later. Translating is not just understanding, it’s also WRITING. You need to have at least SOME understanding of how to write a poem if you want to translate a poem. You need to have at least SOME understanding of how to write comics/fiction if you want to translate comics/fiction.
Read/watch translated stuff! See how other translators translate certain words/phrases and take notes. Steal their cool ways of translating things and incorporate them into your own translations. Notice what DOESN’T work in a translation and make a mental note to not do that. (Season 2 of Aggretsuko on Netflix had me going “WOW that’s a good translation!” constantly while watching it. Good job Aggretsuko S2 netflix translator!)
Google again! Remember how you had to google to learn Japanese words? Good! Now google English words too! Google vocab terms! Google synonyms! Google phrases/sayings! Google words to make sure you’re spelling them right! Google grammar to make sure you’re using it right! GOOGLE!
Accents/dialects: Tread carefully with accents and speech quirks. Sprinkle them in, don’t lay them on heavy. Read the dialogue you’ve written and think “Does this sound like how an actual person would talk? or does this sound like someone putting on a shitty fake accent?” I’ve seen so many translations where people slam the accent on so hard you can’t even read the dialogue any more… It’s not great. *Exceptions for if the character IS putting on a shitty fake accent in Japanese, in which case go hog wild.
Puns: If you hate yourself, you will try to translate the puns instead of putting a translators note. Don’t worry too much about translating the pun EXACTLY. With puns/jokes, there’s two important factors at play: 1. What is the joke? Is it a reference? Is it a play on words? 2. What is the text ACTUALLY saying?Start by translating the line with no pun, just regular dialogue, and then adjust from there. Then re-word to try and fit in the pun- swap out words for ones that lend themselves better to punnery, or change which part of the sentence has the pun worked into it. (Wanna know a secret? Sometimes*, if the pun is the main focus of the line and there isn’t actually any important meaning to the dialogue? You can just write whatever the fuck you want to fit the pun. *but only if you’re ABSOLUTELY sure that it’s 100% about the pun and there’s no other significance)
しかたがない: This sucks. This phrase sucks. “It can’t be helped” sucks 98% of the time. “What choice do we have”, “Fine then” “What did you expect?” “I guess” “If you insist” “Whatever”. There’s a million ways to translate it, but no one way works for every situation. Sometimes you can just take it out completely. It all boils down to “I don’t want to do this but I’m doing it anyway” so think of what someone might say in that scenario that conveys that feeling and still feels natural.
Sentence structure/double bubbles: Japanese grammar structure is weird. Sometimes they do stuff like put the subject at the end of the sentence. It sounds weird when you do that in English. Don’t do that in english when you’re translating it. If you’ve got a line like 強いね、君は (tsuyoi ne, kimi wa). Please don’t translate it as “You’re strong, you are”. Just translating it as “You’re strong” is good enough. If you want to try and keep the pause in there, you could do something like “Yknow, you’re pretty strong.” If you’ve got something like this that’s split up across multiple speech bubbles- DON’T try to translate each bubble individually. Translate them all together as one big block of text, then divide it where it feels natural, and THEN re-distribute it to the speech bubbles. Sometimes what was in the last bubble will end up in the first bubble.
If it sounds awkward in English- Change it. Figure out what doesn’t sound awkward and make it be that.
PROOFREAD. You’re gonna spell things wrong. You’re gonna misread things. You’re gonna go back and decide to change the wording of a sentence but forget to change the tense of one of the words. You’re gonna translate something too close to the Japanese sentence structure and you won’t really notice it the first go around but when you go back to proofread you’ll be like “Wow. No one talks like that in English.”
For reference, here’s my translation/proofread process:
1. Translate. Get it into English. Doesn’t matter if it sounds janky or awkward right now, just try to get the meaning down in English. Anything you’re not sure you translated right? Mark it so you can double check it later. (I usually do this in a google doc on my phone.)2. 1st passthrough. Go through, and turn all that janky english into more natural sounding English: Check for anything that sounds off and give it some tlc. Reword anything that needs it. Do some hard research on the places you weren’t sure about the first time.3. 2nd passthrough. One more sweep through to polish up any parts that still sound awkward in English. If you’re not pressed for time it’s good to do this one a day or two after the previous passthrough so you’ve had some time to let the translation simmer in the back of your mind. Maybe you’ve come up with a better way to word something? Maybe you came up with a good way to make that joke work?4. Final proofread. Usually I do this after it’s been typeset: Sometimes something that read fine as a script doesn’t read so great when put on a page, divided into bubbles or split into separate pages. Adjust those parts. Check extra hard for any missed typos or messed up grammar ‘cause there IS going to be some that slipped through.
KEEP NOTES: If you’re working on a series, consistency is important and makes you look professional! Keep a document somewhere with translation notes so you can do a quick consistency check whenever necessary. Write down things like: How to spell/translate the names of characters/places/special attacks/etc (especially side characters that only show up every once and a while), how you translate certain catch phrases, how you handle certain characters’ speech quirks. You WILL forget if you spelled that name with one R or two Rs and it’s WAY easier to keep it all in one document than to have to go back and scan through every chapter until you find the ONE panel to see how it was written before. It also helps if you have multiple translators working on a series.
Put your name on your translation scripts if you want to be credited! Doesn’t have to be on every page, just once at the top- I used to not bother 'cause they were always just uploaded directly to the scan groups/never publicly uploaded, but then one day someone used one of my translations and the credit page just said something like “don’t know who to credit” lol
…and that’s all I can think of right now! Hope that helps!
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