Gravenhurst: the quotes see daylight. Or, the second longest Nick Talbot interview on the net.
Back in February I nipped round to Nick Talbot’s place to interview him ahead of the release of ‘The Ghost in Daylight’ album. You can read the resulting feature here. It’s got context and everything. On the other hand, it was written for print and, as such, limited to 850 words. Plenty of musicians should face a word count limit whenever they open their mouth. Mr Talbot, most assuredly, isn’t one of them.
So here is everything that was said on the record: the catalyst for return, inspiration, the dubstep side project Ex. 1, the sound of the new album, dissecting key tracks, and the largely unheralded collaboration with Mike Paradinas, Heterotic.
I’d done all of the previous albums while married - a stable, domestic background going on. At the same time, there were lots of aspects of the music industry I wasn’t enjoying. Mainly, not touring in a way I was happy with. The Broadcast tour of 2005 was really good fun, but I was still having trouble. A lot of tours we were having to cancel dates because I was losing my voice. We’d end four shows short in Germany, or France. Cancelling shows is awful because even if you go back and do them again the ticket sales are never as good - it just creates chaos and lets lots of people down. I lost a lot of money because I still paid everyone, even if we didn’t do the shows.
One of the biggest problems was that I couldn’t hear my voice. A lot of the songs were pretty loud. ‘Flashlight Seasons’ was quiet, but I was writing more and more songs which were getting fucking loud. I was singing the same way - I don’t have a very strong voice - and a lot of the venue monitoring left a lot to be desired, so I was often having to shout above it and losing my voice.
I wasn’t enjoying it, and touring is a really big part of being a musician if you’re putting out records and you want to promote them. Unless you’ve already got a massive, established base - like XTC were able to say ‘Right, we’re never playing live again’ - you’ve got to go and do it. Even on the last tour, when I’d decided to get in-ear monitoring, I’d still have some trouble. I was dreading it.
Some individual gigs worked really well. You’d arrive in a really wonderful government-funded art space, in Brussels, or something, like Le Botanique, or somewhere in Germany, and the monitoring would be fantastic.
So I thought ‘What about this am I enjoying?’ You never want to whinge about it, because you’re doing what so many people would lose a limb to do, be a musician for a living. When I finished ‘The Western Lands’, we went on tour, I ended the relationship I’d been in throughout my time with Warp, so I no longer had another half, an anchor to bolster me. Also, I’d written a lot of songs in my previous band, Assembly, that became Gravenhurst songs, so I built up a back catalogue of songs which were half-finished and could be rearranged. After ‘The Western Lands’ they were all used up. I was writing from scratch completely. We went through 2008 promoting the album, I lost my voice, got a throat infection, we had to cancel tours.
I made a really bad decision to move into a flat on my own. When you come back from a tour to an empty flat, which I hadn’t had time to sort out, it was a bit depressing. I should have moved in with other people - I isolated myself at the worst possible time. I was faced with several new situations: having to write from scratch, being single, and being faced with the ultimate question: is being a musician good for my health, is it really a good idea? I carried on doing shows, but just solo shows. I enjoyed them because I could hear my voice, communicate with the audience, and not lose money. 2009-11 should have been ample time to write.
As well as having to write from scratch, I’d run out of ideas. I really needed to restock the pond of ideas: read a lot, watch lots of movies, find new people to rip off. If I’d been in the mindset of ‘Make another album, I’m enjoying this’, then I’d have just got on with it. But I wasn’t in that mindset. I knew that to do it I’d have to tour. Warp wouldn’t release my records if I said I wasn’t touring. So with that in mind, I didn’t have anything to spur me on to write anything. So I drifted for quite a long time, constantly saying to people ‘I don’t know if I’m going to be able to make another record’.
Michelle, my manager, was constantly saying ‘You’ve got a good few albums left in you’. A few songs slowly came together, like ‘The Prize’. She said ‘That’s the best thing you’ve written, you’ve got to make another album. You’ve written this, you could definitely write more’. I first played it for Ali at Toybox, who wanted to put together tracks for the website of artists who’d played there. That must have been 2009. But because I didn’t know whether I wanted to carry on, I didn’t sit down every day and try and write songs.
If you don’t sit down and treat it like a job, then you’re not going to write songs. I’m going to completely contradict myself now: I never went into this because I wanted to work hard. Richard Thompson treats it like a day job - he gets up, starts around nine o’clock, and knocks off at five. I know psychologically that would be good for me, and being up at the same time as other people, but I’ve never been like that. I’ve always been a night owl, never felt like picking up a guitar at that time in the morning. I tried, but it didn’t feel right. Slowly, things started to come together. Alongside doing Gravenhurst, I’ve contributed to Guy [Bartell]’s Bronnt Industries Kapital. I started making a lot of dubstep as Ex. 1.
Two things happened: I got really into Elliot Smith, and really into Burial. It’s not dubstep - the rhythm is more two-step garage sounding. I feel like wearing a t-shirt that says ‘I Like Generic Dubstep’. I really love the wobble bassline, really got back into dance music. I think a lot of people did. Drum and bass got really stale, dance music had been a bit boring for a while. Rob Ellis - Pinch - brought the Croydon sound - my original stamping ground - to Bristol, and I was really into that. I started making dubstep-type stuff, but I was really influenced by Burial. He has something far more ‘Gravenhurst’ in his production style - the cobwebby hiss and noise and everything. I was inspired, but it didn’t help because I thought he’d left everyone behind completely - two albums in a row that are completely seminal. And Elliot Smith just raised the bar so high in terms of songwriting that I couldn’t compete.
At the end of 2010 I did a tour supporting Paul Smith. He was putting out a solo record, and thought it would be good to have me as support. I thought that’d be great, because he’s a really lovely bloke - I’d got to know him through Maximo Park being on Warp. It was brilliant, the most positive touring experience I’ve had. I got on with his solo backing bandmates so well. My backing band in Gravenhurst, the Allender Band, were friends of mine and got on really well as friends, but in some ways we didn’t have that much in common in terms of other interests. As soon as I started talking about politics their eyes had this glaze to them, they suddenly found things they needed to do elsewhere. So I felt a bit isolated in terms of conversation topics. When I’m on tour, if I get bored I get depressed, and all it takes to stop that is decent conversation. They’re great musicians, but them being a band in themselves they kind of have their own in-jokes. I felt very, very lonely. Them combined with me losing my voice all the time was hellish.
Paul’s backing band are lovely, I’ve far more in common with them. I think a big part of it is because they’re all northerners, politics isn’t something they choose to be interested in. They’re tribally, have parents who were affected by the miners’ strike. We were the only Labour-voting family in the whole of Surrey, I think. They didn’t read the Economist every week, weren’t complete newshounds or politics nerds, but just had that interest in the blood, so you could have that conversation at any time. And their other interests were sociology, arts and humanities, general stuff. Mine weren’t interested in talking about anything except music and comedy, and our sense of humour was a bit different: mine was more ‘South Park’, more satirical, theirs’ was more ‘Mighty Boosh’, whimsical. These things don’t matter that much normally, but when you’re on tour they matter enormously.
It wasn’t just nerdy conversations about politics. We were playing in Milan and went to the venue two nights before the actual gig, and were camped out. Really helped we were in a tour bus - that made it luxurious! The people running the venue said ‘Come to the club’, so we had two nights of free cocktails all night. It was really great fun, we were just dancing to pop music - ‘Dancing In The Dark’, ‘I Feel Love’, Pet Shop Boys, all the stuff you want to hear. Paul set me a challenge: finish your album by Christmas. I didn’t, but I finished writing it by Christmas. I didn’t finish it for another year! But when I got back I realised ‘Okay, so I can tour, but it’s like any job and you’ve got to find the right people to work with’.
So that tour changed everything. Without it, I’m not sure this album would have happened. It was so positive. I went away for three weeks and was always stimulated. I’m basically poaching Paul Smith’s backing band, but he’s been doing the new Maximo Park album so I felt it was okay. Rachel the guitarist I’ve got playing bass and singing harmonies - first time I’ll have had harmonies live, which will be amazing - and it turns out Claire the bassist plays drums. I’ve got to play quietly. Any track like ‘The Prize’ will be with bundle sticks, not sticks. We can still play stuff like ‘Song From Under The Arches’ - that’s really loud, but only in the bits that don’t have singing. If they’re loud and singing, like ‘The Velvet Cell’, I can’t do them. Everything’s about preserving the voice.
For inspiration I was reading Gordon Burn. He died, sadly, at the age of 60 and clearly had a couple more decade’s worth of books in him. Half of one of the lines in ‘The Prize’ is nicked from one of his books. You can open any of his books on any page and see a line of prose that’s fantastic. Lots of David Peace, lots of Iain Sinclair - his novels are so dense, so difficult to read, but you can get great ideas from them, symbolism. The only one I’ve read start to finish in a reasonable, normal manner is ‘London Orbital’. It’s a bit like ‘Naked Lunch’ - William Burroughs sent it off to be printed in Italy because nowhere else would touch it because of obscenity. They couldn’t read English, printed it all in the wrong order, and it came back and he was delighted! Completely plotless.
Doing things compulsively that you don’t want to do, anything from drug habits to sexual addiction to pursuing fame to holding onto unhealthy relationships - ‘The Prize’ could be about any of those things. When Elliot Smith was asked about songs that seemed to be about drug references, he said he used drugs as a metaphor for any kind of dependency.
On his first album, Elliot Smith was recording in a bedroom at night and had to sing quietly. Similar situation with me - those choices are often made through practical limitations. He didn’t get the full band sound until he had the money to record in a studio with ‘X/O’, his first on Dreamworks. He wanted stuff to sound like ‘Abbey Road’, was pissed off he’d made these lo-fi four-track albums - lots of stuff he recorded he considered demos, but were released because when people at the label heard them they thought they were amazing. I didn’t start recording with a full drumkit until I had the ability to record with four microphones at the same time, and that was when I had the money to record ‘Fires in Distant Buildings’ at Toybox.
With this album there are two songs with full drum kit, the rest are very minimal, no drums at all, or one track electronic. I think in the back of my mind it’s been influenced that I want to be able to play these songs solo. I thought to myself ‘How did I do this before I was even on Warp, before any of this pressure - the money pressure - how did I do it? How did I used to just enjoy playing the guitar?’ I used to do lots of different tunings, play lots of covers, work out what tunings they use. Like when you gave me ‘Jack Orion’, you introduced me to Bert Jansch, I worked out that stuff. I was listening to ‘Pour Down Like Silver’ by Richard Thompson, it’s got a tuning I’d not used before, and I came up with something new. ‘Flashlight Seasons’ came out of that open-endedness where you don’t know what’s going to happen, that playfulness where you’re doing it for itself. I wanted to get that back, and be able to play solo and be independent, and be able to sing and not lose my voice. So with all that in mind, a lot has gone back to the acoustic sound of ‘Flashlight Seasons’, but at the same time it’s actually the most electronic.
Whilst it’s got very acoustic guitar sounds, there’s lots of these kind of sounds - unidentifiable, choral, possibly synth sounds, possibly organ, it’s not clear - they’re electrical sounds. There was a lot of underlying electrical noise in ‘Flashlight Seasons’, but they’re more to the fore here. Some of them are dominating it. There’s a track that hasn’t got any guitars at all, just all organ/Mellotron/synthesisers, and the drum beat is a Roland 606. I was playing around, I didn’t think it was going to be a Gravenhurst track. I don’t know why I started putting vocals over it, the vocals are completely buried in the mix, very impressionistic, very Slowdive. This is the first album where there’s a song that’s purely acoustic guitar, nothing else. Even on ‘Flashlight Seasons’ there’d be overlays. There’s a lot on ‘Flashlight Seasons’ that sounds quite naive to me now. Lyrically, certainly, but also in the way that I’ve arranged things. This is definitely more sophisticated.
There isn’t a word for what I want to say. ‘Electronic’ you think ‘electronica’, to one extent you think Kraftwerk and, to another, Autechre, or Minotaur Shock. I say ‘electrical’ because it makes me think of the hum of switching on an organ, rather than Max/MSP patches that make granular synthesis like Autechre, sounds that are completely alienating. All of the sounds I’ve used on the album are - I hate to use the word ‘warm’ or ‘organic’ - but there’s something humane about them.
One track on the album, ‘Fitzrovia’, is about that part of London: the psychological history of the political space. A hot bed of anarchist thought at the turn of the 19th century. I allude to the way the left has lost its way, hark back to the days when it was proud of being labelled socialist, people pinned their colours to the mast. People drawn toward left-wing thinking have spent too much of their time being influenced by the kind of people who think it’s more important to wear a Che Guevara t-shirt than read George Orwell. Guevara bought into the culture of suicidal martyrdom, the religious aspect of glorious death - he went into that jungle to die, basically. He started forced labour camps, killed anyone who disagreed with him - just because he was on the left doesn’t make him any less despicable a figure. We’ve got completely false idols. The lyric goes ‘You’re a poster child for revolutionary brands... you never see you’ve canonised the wrong man.’ They really should be walking around with George Orwell t-shirts - he’s the man who pointed out the left needed to be very suspicious of Stalin. He had apologists on the left ’til the 90s.
In the track I talk about the Battle of Cable St, a time when you had solidarity on the left, this wonderful moment of trade unionists, Jews, socialists, communists, average Joe on the street, all coming out to face down Moseley: “Riot scenes on Cable Street, government boots on civilian dreams / A lost event consigned to history”. The song is woven into a metaphor about London’s lost rivers: Wandle, Falconbrook, Effra, the idea of simply paving something over and pretending it’s not there. But you still need to be able to access them, check they don’t suddenly start bubbling under and turning up on Oxford St; the left paves over things about its history that it doesn’t like, the fact it’s shown more solidarity with Stalin than with any Kurdish trade unionist.
Someone writes a song about the Holocaust in the popular song idiom - is that a good idea? How can that work? But I think I got away with it. The song is called ‘The Foundry’, written from the point of view of an American soldier imagining what it was like to be a German civilian living next to a concentration camp and being in denial about what was going on. One of the lyrics is ‘The gathering dust on aspen leaves’. There’s a German poet called Heinrich Heine who wrote, ‘Where they burn books, so too will they in the end burn human beings.’ So I took that and wrote: ‘If you let them burn books, you let them burn bodies, the man with the match could be anybody / A uniform changes something inside, holding a gun makes you feel so alive, and everyone else is doing it too, it’s all right.’ And then the chorus... [For the record, Mr Talbot adds this with can’t-quite-believe-it-himself hearty chuckle] the chorus is ‘You won’t know when evil comes, evil looks just like anyone, I blame I blame I blame anyone but me.’ It’s the best lyric I’ve ever written, without a doubt.
I’m so proud of this album, it’s the best thing I’ve done. And I’m particularly proud of the lyrics - even good bands have shit lyrics. One of the few areas we get consistently good lyrics is hip-hop - even the most commercial hip-hop generally has good lyrics, and often very funny lyrics. It’s central. Whereas words in rock ‘n’ roll can be throwaway.
I’m doing a project with Mike Paradinas at the moment, called Heterotic. He’s sent me 40 pieces of electronic music, and I’m writing vocal lines and lyrics. I don’t think he understands how long it takes me to write the words. How long it takes to condense down, have as few extraneous words as possible. He writes two tracks a week, doing it all on his laptop in bed, and it doesn’t work like that! I can’t sit down and expect to have something at the end of a session at writing - I can have less than I started with, and that’s progress!