Finding middle ground

[theantianti]

Introduction & FAQ

I’m not a Kaylor shipper. I’m not an anti. I am someone who is here to find a middle ground. 

I want this blog to serve as a place where people can call out both sides. I welcome discussion regarding the toxicity of the “Kaylor ship” and blogs such as TTB who promote damaging lies. I also welcome middle ground, rational Kaylors and ex Kaylor shippers who want a place to talk about their opinions and experiences. I am open to any good faith, honest conversation. Any hate or personal attacks will be deleted so don’t bother.

Above all else, I value truth, logic, and fairness from both ends. I want to make it clear that I do not believe that Karlie Kloss and Taylor Swift are in a secret relationship, nor do I believe that everything you see is what you get in the entertainment industry. I know better than that.

Who am I? - I live in a big city in the USA. I work in PR. I am a gay woman who has been a casual fan of Taylor Swift since Speak Now and a bigger fan since Folklore. 

Are you an ex-Kaylor? - No, I have never been a shipper. 

Do you think Josh/Karlie are a fake relationship or bearding contract? - I highly doubt it.

Do you think Taylor/Joe is a fake relationship? - I doubt it. 

Do you think Taylor and Karlie ever dated? - I think there is a possibility. However, if they did, it is mostly definitely not something that is currently going on and insane theories about matching patterns, Instagram captions, and emoji choices on social media posts are delusional. 

Do you think Taylor is gay or straight? - I do not claim to know her sexuality, and will not.  I do think there is a chance that Taylor is not straight, and I do acknowledge and recognize the queer themes in her music. All of her public and known relationships have been with men, so I will not ever claim that she is a secret lesbian who is sending messages to TTB.

I am familiar with the PR game and the entertainment industry. I do not and never have worked with Taylor Swift or Karlie Kloss personally. I am here to call out bullshit on both sides. Remember: discussing a celebrity, even in the form of gossip, is not harmful within reason. Creating elaborate conspiracy theories to convince yourself (or young LGBT people) that two people are secretly still together, despite strong contradictory evidence, is. 

[cages-boxes-hunters-foxes]

Do we have any idea what the timeline of Taylor trying to negotiate with Scooter could have been? I'm currently wondering if it was before she wrote Folklore. Did she literally turn down an NDA that said she couldn't ever say anything bad about him and then write Mad Woman?? Iconic. "What did you think I'd say to that" indeed

I WAS LISTENING TO MAD WOMAN TODAY AND HAD THIS EXACT THOUGHT!!!!!!! i wonder i really fuckin wonder

[bisluthq]

Welcome to a Realistic Kaylor Timeline

Welcome. You’re probably here because you’ve started to think that pop superstar Taylor Swift is… Shall we say… A teeny bit fruity… And you know what? You’re not alone. Many people think that. In fact, over the course of her illustrious career, gay rumors have continuously cropped up linking her to various women. Do I know for a fact that this is what happened? Lmao no. But I (with the help of various friends but mostly importantly @adastrabella) tried to explain what might’ve happened. 

We thank you for reading this Magnum Opus:

1) Welcome to the first “Realistic” Kaylor Masterpost

2) Debunking Joshlie’s Reasons to “Beard”

3) Joshlie starts

4) Back in Tay’s World

5) Kaylor Rises?

6) Things Get Messy

7) Kaylor Reunited?

8) Joshlie Back for Good

9) 2016′s Summer of Mess

10) Debunking Late Stage Kaylor Myths

11) Late Stage Kaylor and Beyond

What will the essays above prove? Well, nothing seeing as how we don’t know these people. But here’s what we think happened.

My vibe is: Kaylor was real in some way, but Joshlie was very very real and flawed too, making things far more complicated than traditional Kaylor narratives would have had you believe. We’ve only shown a portion of Joshlie evidence - this is the realest relationship I’ve seen online. Kaylor started as a real friendship from a few encounters pre-November 2013, then became a PR alliance to help both girls promotion during the 1989 #GirlSquad era. However, when Joshlie went on break, Karlie and Taylor went to Big Sur together, starting the relationship that would bring us into this mess. It was a hot mess for a few years, until the end of 2016, when, after a summer of spiraling due to Karlie choosing Josh and a number of professional difficulties, Taylor ran away to London and cut Karlie off. Taylor and Karlie have been on different paths ever since, except for the Reputation tour in Nashville, and the Masters Heist, neither of which is particularly good or happy events for either of them. folklore’s track hoax is for Karlie. Kaylor is now dead and Karlie is very having a baby with Josh. Mazels 🦒 and 🦖!! Taylor is re-recording her masters. Everyone has moved on. Except maybe us (but now we’ve read this, maybe we can too). So.

[theantianti]

Strong Kaylors will come in like, “Karlie just had a big lunch!” 

[theantianti]

I don’t even have any commentary. These are comedic gold. 

[theantianti]

Amidst celebrating that Trump is OUT of office... I am excited to see what TTB and the big Kaylors come up with next. If Trump is no longer keeping them apart, how will they excuse Karlie and Taylor still not hanging out or acknowledging one another? And when Karlie finally announces the pregnancy and we see her baby bump grow... the breakdowns will be iconic. 

[whatiwillsay]

See, that’s so interesting. One of the reasons I don’t think Karlie and Josh are real is bc his family refused to meet her for 6 years. And referred to her as the “lingerie model.” And she wasn’t allowed at family gatherings. I just think after that much time, that would’ve broken Karlie’s heart and it would’ve gotten in the way of their relationship and she would’ve moved on. I think the Kushners will do whatever it takes to make deals. If Josh having Karlie as his wife assures him $1B investments, I think they’re fine w it.

why would josh pick a beard his family hated? they seemed to fully accept his college-educated, Jewish girlfriend (sophie) that he had before karlie.  she was pictured out with his mother from time to time such as here:

here she is with josh:

lemme guess...

no one ever told y’all about sophie...

[theantianti]

Interesting! 👀 👀 

[taylortruther]

i wonder how much ttb will be disappointed if karlie moves along in her pregnancy and has her baby... and there is still no kaylor reunion...

she’s going to move on to another couple, i bet. i wonder what her next obsession will be

[theantianti]

She will say that Taylor is raising the baby with her 😂 She’s the dad!

[bisluthq]

Ok so I think a lot of people in this fandom are very young and/or have no connection or knowledge of the entertainment or media industries. Some of you have tried to learn stuff but you’ve only done this because of this or another ship and that’s hard to do if you’re 1) young or 2) not connected to the industry.

I’m not in PR but I AM a journalist, and one who has worked in entertainment journalism specifically.

The Insider article was written by a JUNIOR REPORTER whose only job is to churn out articles in order to get clicks. Have a look through her other pieces. This is someone who just has to create content. All. The. Time. She probably looked at Google Trend reports (Taylor and Taylor + lesbian have both been on the trend up) and she did a bit of Googling and found Kaylor masterposts and did a neat roundup. Or, hell, she might be a Kaylor shipper herself 🤷🏻‍♀️ Like Jill Gutowitz 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ Both of those are equally possible.

What is IMpossible is that this came from Tree Paine. Press releases from Tree herself would not be sent to a Junior reporter at Insider. They would be handled by a section editor or possibly a senior reporter at a major fashion, music or entertainment publication. They would also, unless framed as an exclusive, go to several publications at once (so we wouldn’t have this one lonely article, we’d have a barrage of them).

“GP” is not a thing. “Setting up for the general public” is not a thing publicists do. That is literally conspiracy talk. And if they did, if they wanted to do that vibe - to get the average Joe on the street to know about this, to really make something broadly known or recognized they would go to the likes of... People.

Like Joshlie’s PR team did when they sent an exclusive to People about the pregnancy and then sent a follow up press release to every other major publication that is interested in the two of them (like fashion ones and Jewish ones). “BUT THEY ALL SAID THE SAME THING!!!” yes because they were based on a press release (which we call “pressers”). “BUT THEY SAID SOURCE!!” yes because we don’t write “publicist confirmed” for those types of articles as it draws attention to the PR angle and people generally don’t want to know the back workings of entertainment.

TTB and her followers know literally NOTHING about PR. They are not even tangentially in the industry. Don’t be suckered by them.

(And I say this as someone IN THE GAYLOR FANDOM - like you don’t need to believe literal rubbish in order to embrace queer themes in Tay’s music or even to speculate about her queer relationships. But please for the love of everything good in this world, DO NOT SHARE CRAP and PLEASE LISTEN TO ACTUAL INDUSTRY FOLKS).

[theantianti]

Could it also maybe, possibly be because Derek, Karlie, and Josh are all more focused on the election? Derek is posting on Instagram consistently to encourage people to get out and vote… maybe that’s the priority right now… maybe everything in everyone’s life does not revolve around the Kaylor narrative. 

[bisluthq]

Wait so that person says if Derek posts something about Karlie then it must be true???????? So if Derek is being loud and obnoxious about his best friend’s WEDDING she’s married right????????????

[theantianti]

[theantianti]

Could it also maybe, possibly be because Derek, Karlie, and Josh are all more focused on the election? Derek is posting on Instagram consistently to encourage people to get out and vote... maybe that’s the priority right now... maybe everything in everyone’s life does not revolve around the Kaylor narrative. 

[whatiwillsay]

I definitely believe Karlie is pregnant, but I will admit that I think it's strange she hasn't made any announcement herself for 3 days and the articles reporting her pregnancy came out so close to the election. Why would she want her pregnancy headlines to overshadow the ones about her advocating for Biden/voting so close to the election when they're most important? Feels like someone is using her baby for pr and it's not even born yet. 🙄🙄G-d help that kid, cause they're going to need it

the articles didn’t over shadow anything the only people who really care about the pregnancy are us. for what it’s worth she and her friends have been hinting at it on social media (“pumpkin spice spice baby”, and comments about how she’s glowing)

i believe she and josh will comment on it after the election

[bisluthq]

Literally nobody outside of her fans and us demented lesbians gives a shit about supermodel Karlie Kloss and tech investor Joshua Kushner having a baby.

Josh and Karlie are both Democrats. He has not spoken on Biden because it’d probably be unnecessarily controversial. He did donate to Beto O’Rourke in the primaries. She has publicly supported Biden.

I genuinely don’t know what’s not clicking.

They probably announced it this way in case she’s papped and because the rumors were looooud.

[theantianti]

Agreed. They are putting too much weight on Karlie and/or Josh not confirming the pregnancy themselves. I doubt they would want to announce a pregnancy immediately before the election. Karlie being a co-owner of W Magazine is enough for me to believe that it’s legitimate. Not to mention, if it wasn’t, they would’ve been able to do a swift denial and moved along.

[theantianti]

I’m a Gaylor, but I wish you the best on your blog if your mission is actually what you say it is. Other people have tried to do this sort of thing before and they became antis; maybe you’ll have better luck. I’m a bit skeptical though, as you say you want to “call out bullshit on both sides”…yet every post on your blog at this point only calls out Kaylors. I look forward to your first post calling out anti “bullshit” 🙂

---

Hi there anon! Thank you! 

I understand your concern completely. This blog is just getting started, and there has been A LOT to talk about on the Kaylor side since Karlie announced her pregnancy. I am gay myself, and I realize some anti blogs will claim that as well, but I promise to be sensitive when it comes to these things. I have my limits, and there are a lot of things that anti blogs on here say that I am not okay with. 

Thank you for your words. I will be making a post in the next few days or week that outline the chosen ignorance of anti blogs claiming that PR and bearding relationships are not common in the industry.

Have a nice day!

[theantianti]

No, actually, I don’t think that most of you have ANY understanding of how PR works. 

Clearly. 

The way that all of the big Kaylor blogs have worked together to remain in their little bubble, taking anonymous sources on Tumblr as gospel, and feeding into the echo chamber they’ve created together, is actually very alarming. 

How would it make any logical sense for Karlie, co-owner of W Magazine, to have an article published about her pregnancy? Project Runway also posted about it. At this point, if Karlie was going to deny the rumors, she would have. 

There is no feasible way to look at this situation and say, “yes, Karlie and Josh are relevant enough to normalize the Kushners and increase votes for Trump.”  It doesn’t make sense. Or the idea that they are using pregnancy rumors to “seed the divorce narrative.” Right, because before a divorce is announced, it’s totally commonplace to have pregnancy rumors confirmed by People and W Magazine. 

[theantianti]

As far as gaylor blogs go, yours seems to be one of the most rational and level headed. What’s your take on all of this fake pregnancy mess? @swiftgron-get-married

[whatiwillsay]

well hello there thanks for the compliment i guess lol!

i am not surprised that karlie has gotten pregnant at all, whatever the nature of joshlie truly is i think it was expected of them socially and i think they both are probably excited to start a family

i obviously don’t think it’s fake and i really really hope large swaths of the fandom don’t go the route claiming it’s fake.  just because karlie is pregnant now (and i truly believe she is indeed pregnant) doesn’t mean some iteration of kaylor didn’t happen back in the day.

i think fans and shippers have been led astray by big blogs saying kaylor went on way longer than it did and that’s a shame but i think fans should still be able to appreciate kaylor for what it was even if it’s over (obviously that’s what i do with swiftgron)

i checked out your blog and it’s interesting…what’s your deal? are you a gaylor? an anti? most importantly do you believe in swiftgron?

[theantianti]

Well, I’ll answer the last part of your reblog first. I’m not a gaylor, and not an anti either. I’m open to the possibility that Taylor is not straight, but I think any amount of conspiracy theories that are created by big Kaylor blogs, such as TTB, are extremely harmful to the community. 

I’m glad to hear that there are some voices of reason in Gaylor world. By no stretch do I think that Karlie is faking her pregnancy. The most disgusting, but not shocking, part to me was the speculation that she is going to fake a miscarriage. I mean, WOW. 

For swiftgron, I am not convinced lol. However, there’s a higher probability than Kaylor to me. As someone who works for people in the entertainment industry, there is definitely talk of Diana and has been for a long time. Until the Kaylor rumors got loud (around 2015 or so), I hadn’t heard a peep on Karlie’s sexuality. Not that it means much. Gossip, speculation, discussion, none of it is bad UNTIL it becomes conspiracy theory level insane. When it begins to cross boundaries, invade personal lives, harm friendships, etc. Industry relationships can be, and often are, much more complex and messy than people on the outside give them credit for. I don’t reject the possibility of Kaylor, I just don’t believe in it either.

It is entertaining to see what kind of stories people come up with to support a ship that, if it ever happened, has been long dead for years. Have a good day! 

[theantianti]

As far as gaylor blogs go, yours seems to be one of the most rational and level headed. What’s your take on all of this fake pregnancy mess? @swiftgron-get-married

[karliesbuzzcut]

I’m honestly very glad that TTB, iwanthermidnightz & industryhearts decided to go the “it isn’t true until Karlie confirms it” route, because that means we will get another day worth of quality content when Karlie inevitably confirms it.

[theantianti]

Can’t wait! I bet it’ll be after the election.