Hey, I’m gonna post sometimes, random stuff at that. My main interest at the moment is Stranger Things (Billy Hargrove and many others to be exact) but I also have a few side interest that would post about at random times as well. I’m a multi shipper so you might see a fuck ton of ships here for no reason at all lmao. I can also draw so that’s something. Anyways Fuck Hawkins 😗✌️
Similarities (and differences) between Yong-sik and Billy
Edit (Jan 12, 2026): hello there, this is gonna be left unfinished, it was gonna be way longer but then my mind decided to kill itself and my motivation to finish this just disappeared 🥲 I hope you enjoy it even if it’s not finished at all, hell I’ll probably even edit it at some point and finish it *IF* my motivation comes back…😅 read the warning below. (You should probably read the tags too I explain a lot more in detail there too)
Warning that even though it’s been about almost 5 months since Squid Game ended I’ll still put a spoiler warning for season 3 and honestly I don’t think I’ll be tackling much about season 5 of ST here so yeah and there might be grammar mistakes and stuff…I’m not the best writer lmao. Also I’ll be talking in defense of both of these characters, I love them both very much so please even if you don’t like them don’t send hate my way‼️ Also if I missed any key details please let me know.
I do this this a lot with the characters I end up fixating on, I always see how they are so similar to each other to the point where I feel like if they were in the same room they would find common ground even if their experiences are different and end up empathizing with each other as a result.
And that’s what I’m doing now!
I started fixating on Yong-sik very late July to early August and the fixation (along with my fixation of Cho Hyun-ju) is still ongoing, then Thanksgiving weekend rolls around and I end up watching ST Season 5 with my family, and once it was finally over I went back to see how the Billy fans were doing and honestly through looking through most of @stranger-rants posts that I have missed in a long while it made me realize that Yong-sik and Billy are quite similar! And of course have their differences as well.
Firstly we will start with the similarities:
This one is definitely the most obvious and biggest similarity they have: they are both abuse victims. Park (Yong-sik’s dad) was an unfaithful piece of shit and he physically abused Geum-ja (Yong-sik’s mom) and even though Yong-sik has never mentioned that he himself was physically abused by his father, he witnessed it from a young age most likely and it’s still a very likely chance that he was physically abused by his dad even if it wasn’t explicitly said. Neil (Billy’s dad) was abusive to Billy in many ways but the one we mostly saw in the show was physical as well. Neil was abusive to his mother as well and Billy always tried to stand up for her, pushing Neil away so he won’t hurt her but because of how young he was, there was little he could do to stop the abuse.
They are have unhealthy coping mechanisms (addictions): In the majority of screen-time Billy had in season 2, all we ever see him drink is beer which is not healthy for a then 17 year old who was still developing 😭 and he also smokes a shit ton of cigarettes…he uses these things to cope with what’s going on at home and possibly to help with some issues he has himself (like undiagnosed anxiety perhaps). When Geum-ja speaks to Gi-hun after Hide and Seek, she mentions how Yong-sik has always blamed himself for things that were out of his control, then she mentions that a “trusted friend” of his ran away with his money and that he drank himself stupid that night, so he copes with alcohol (and might’ve lowkey became an alcoholic) and he also has a gambling addiction…which pretty obvious because a lot of the Squid Game players (not all of them though) are there partially due to gambling debts and other factors in their life.
Death: They both die horrific deaths that they DID NOT DESERVE…and if I say anymore than this I’m gonna fucking cry…
I think that’s most of ther of similarities, lowkey kinda lied when I said I saw a lot of similarities because they both live completely different lives but of course I can’t always be so sure, there might be more similarities than meets the eye is just that those were the most two obvious to me.
Now let’s look at the differences:
Their mothers: I had a big ass paragraph for this one then it got accidentally deleted when it moved to the similarities part and I’m so fucking mad so I’ll just briefly explain. Billy’s mom abandoned him with their abuser while Geum-ja ended up divorcing and leaving their abuser with Yong-sik. Billy became his dad’s scapegoat and wasn’t able to escape his abuse and was very isolated, his isolation becoming worse when Neil marries Susan and in just a few months they move MILES away from California to bum fuck Hawkins, Indiana, away from immediate family…away from home, away from anyone who can help. Yong-sik and Geum-ja were able to escape, hell their abuser even dies at some point before they join Squid Game, though they were probably not able to afford proper therapy for what they’ve been through (and also because the social norms in Korea might have to do with them not getting therapy as well), they still remained together and have a somewhat stable parent-child relationship, their lives aren’t easy though especially because of the trouble Yong-sik ends up getting into because of his crippling debt.
Support: it kind of ties in to the paragraph above but it’s very clear that Yong-sik has a support system
The unasked for “There’s certain types of people you stay away from” scene analysis
Why am I doing this analysis… It’s like I hate myself.
Welcome to my combination subtext exploration and nit picking bonanza.
The infamous “there’s certain types of people you stay away from” scene has been living rent free in my head for a while mostly because it has interesting implications that go woefully unexplored by the narrative. Nothing even remotely interesting is explored or even followed up on. And there is zero pay off.
Or maybe the exploration and pay off happened off screen.
Preface: This is not a drastically new idea, as I feel this aligns with the consensus amongst my fellow Billy stans (affectionate). The goal is mostly just to collect these ideas into a single contained argument whenever someone bitches about Billy being racist.
Wish me luck and prepare for my crucifixion upon revealing that I think Billy is/is not racist is not the fucking point™.
Read more because this is unhinged af.
You have been warned!
My purpose is not to conclude if Billy’s actions were racist or not racist, as that is not a coherent way to discuss racism or racial prejudice in society, which is the purpose of the media we consume.
Reducing these scenes down to the an idiotic binary of “he is/is not racist” is not the fucking point, actually™ because that is not a coherent way to discuss racism or racial prejudice.
Additionally, the framing of the "certain people" scene, and all subsequent scenes across all five seasons does not support exploration on racial bias, does not invite any social commentary or perspectives on minorities and people of color, does not discuss anything in relationship to race, and does not prompt self reflection in the audience.
Racism is not something you are. Racism is something you do. Racism is something that people participate in. Racism is more complicated than the simple and black and white (pun intended) way it is often portrayed in media and the Duffer Brothers are not skilled enough writers to portray racism on screen in a meaningful way. More about this at the end.
Lucas, Billy, and Max
Alright, back to the actual focus.
Opinion time: The framing of race in this scene is sloppy, lazy, and it leaves much to be desired because it is not criticized, followed up on, or challenged in any way within the narrative itself. I may explore this idea more later, but for now, regardless of the way the situation is framed, we are never given a satisfying conclusion for several reasons, all of which are wrapped up with the concept that the Duffer Brothers are poor writers who cannot handle nuanced discussions of important issues, like race and abuse.
Who’s surprised?
Having a discussion on both the Max and Lucas interaction and the Max and Billy interaction within the family and social contexts of the respective characters is important.
You'll notice that I don't say anything about Lucas' family. I believe there are scenes with his mother in Season 4, but I never watched Season 4. Hmm, wonder if this was another POC with development off screen.
So let’s go through both scenes.
Note: I am intentionally framing these scenes around Max since she appears in both. However, both interactions-Max and Lucas and Max and Billy-have a neutral focus, at least in the visual sense.
I will analyze two scenes:
1. School scene: Max and Lucas
2. Parking Lot: Max and Billy
1. School scene: Max and Lucas
For context, I wrote both transcripts. Both transcripts will appear first, and will be followed with the analysis underneath.
The scene starts with Lucas running after Max, toward the parking lot.
Transcript
Lucas: What’s wrong with you?
Max: What’s wrong with me? What’s wrong with you?
Lucas: I don’t understand.
Max: yelling No! I don’t understand. You guys act like you want me to be my friend but then you just treat me like garbage.
Lucas: That’s not true!
Max: Yes it is! You just go in the AV club, keeping secrets like we’re in the second grade or something. N— I thought you guys wanted me in your party.
Lucas: We do! But its….
Max: But what?
Lucas: T-There are just things. Things we can’t tell you, alright? For your own safety.
Max: My own safety?
Lucas: Yes!
Max: Because I’m a girl?
Lucas: What? No!
Max: Did you keep secrets from El?
Lucas: How did you know about El?
Max: Did you?
Lucas: That was different… trust me! That was just different!
Max: You know what? Forget it. I don’t want to be in your stupid party anyway. I’m out. Have a nice life.
Lucas: Max!
Max: You still stink, by the way.
End transcript
———
The Max and Lucas interaction
It’s obvious that Max has no issues standing up for herself and is able to easily call out Lucas for pushing the issue on her by throwing his question back at him. In her view, she is not the problem here, he is. She doesn’t understand the sudden change in the boys, how they followed her around, spied on her, and invited her for trick or treating. She went, and they all had fun, and now all of a sudden they've excluded and forced to wait outside the AV room while they have a stupid Party Meeting.
Feeling excluded and hurt because they’re unintentionally making this into an ol’ boys club, hurting her in the process. After all, friends don't lie, right? And the boys are keeping secrets.
Being a 13 year old boy, Lucas does not see it from her perspective and instead is focused on the realities of his situation. There is an NDA, the Upside Down is dangerous, and there are real risks to her life if she is brought into the fold.
The conflict is the fact that Lucas is avoiding making a full decision by having her a little involved, but not totally involved. It's a shit or get off the pot situation. Either tell her or don't. And, to be clear, this is a good conflict to have with a new character.
Max stands up for herself and asserts her wants and calls out Lucas’ behavior.
However, Lucas is distracted by his own experiences and therefore is secretive and manipulative with Max without it being his intention. Harm can be caused with good intentions too.
Here, it's important that Billy is witnessing an unbalanced, unhealthy conversation between his 13 year old sister and a boy from her class. And speaking of Billy…
Billy as a witness
Billy witnesses this entire interaction between Max and Lucas. Scene framing is critical to visual story telling, and with framing alone, Billy is shown close and part of their conflict, alert and attentive.
In the first screenshot below, Max first raises her voice, when she yells “No!” And advances on Lucas and clearly demonstrates her frustration.
Billy is only circled in the first screenshot only, but given the consistency of his placement, I trust you can find him in subsequent screenshots.
How far away do you think Billy is from this interaction? Because that’s maybe 5 parking spots worth of distance, so what? 50 feet?
Whenever the camera cuts to Lucas’ perspective on Max, Billy is in every single frame until El is mentioned, during which time the framing tightens to just Max and Lucas, indicating that Billy does not hear the italicized portions of the transcript.
During the Lucas/Max argument, Billy is shown in frame behind Max in 7 out of 10 cuts, meaning that Billy is visible when Max's face is on screen 7 out of 10 times, the three exceptions are when El is discussed. There is techncially a 11th cut, but that is a side angle side shot to show the distance between Max and Lucas, which is not included in this analysis. It happens toward the end of the interaction before she storms off.
Importantly, there are 5 cuts back and forth during a single one of Max's lines. While Max is standing up for herself, Billy is shown in the back of every. single. cut. Billy is to her right (camera left). He is literally and metaphorically in Max's corner.
Max: No! [CUT] I don’t understand. [CUT] You guys [CUT] act like you want me to be your friend [CUT] but then you just treat me like garbage. [CUT]
In the second cut, shown below, notice how close Billy and Lucas are in the shot. Lucas is overlapping Billy and there's a large gap between Lucas and Max.There is no doubt that Lucas has Billy's complete and undivided attention here. Using angles, the camera makes it seem like he's standing fully upright, rather than leaning on the Camaro.
Billy is always framed on the left, nearer to Lucas. Several cuts have Lucas intersecting where Billy is standing. The most interesting part of Billy's framing is that there is never an angle in which Billy is between Lucas and Max.
In fact, the opposite is true: Lucas is framed as coming between Max and Billy. Since Billy is not ever shot between them, it indicates he doesn’t have the intention to get involved because Max is doing just fine on her own. Either he simply does not care or can clearly see (and hear) she does not need his help.
Not to mention, look how uncomfortable Lucas is of her reaction. Billy can see how Lucas reacts, but not Max's, but she's yelling, so he can hear her just fine. If Lucas was aggressive, no doubt Billy would have walked over or done something.
When Max says "keeping secrets like we’re in the second grade or something" there's a fascinating shot where the frame starts with just the Camaro in frame with Billy just out of frame, and then the camera moves to show him. This is shown below. It gives the feeling of being watched. Billy is there and based on his body language and the fact that he does not move in any of the shots, it indicates that he is attentive and focused on what’s happening. He is more a statue bearing witness than a character in the scene. Every other extra moves around them. Billy is one of the only one unmoved. The visual contrast is why he is so easy to spot. I clocked him the first time I watched it.
As mentioned above, when El is brought up in conversation, the framing changes to what is shown below. Notice how much smaller and contained this conflict feels? Billy is not privy to information about El. (God forbid we include him in the plot consider they're having this conversation in front of the Middle school, but that's a rant for another day.) El is a secret, something vulnerable between Lucas and Max in this moment.
She covers her hurt feelings in basically the same way Billy does. She basically tells him to get fucked and storms off, no doubt thinking she doesn't need friends like them anyway!
2. Parking Lot: Max and Billy
Creepy music plays as Max skates toward Billy. Notice the massive divide between them, all the empty space and the blank sign. In fact, that blue sign is the only part of the set design that is blue except for Max’s jeans, Billy’s clothing, and the Camaro. Again, visually telling us the divide between Max and Billy, the mostly dead grass between them, with little sprouts of life popping up, but I digress.
My favorite part about this shot is how Billy looks outwardly calm, but is clearly frustrated. Then there's the fact he’s messing with the cigarette filter with his thumb. In basically every scene he's in, Billy is smoking like a chimney, but he is not smoking right now. He’s anxious and annoyed. And yet he is not smoking. Interesting. Another important detail is that he doesn't blink and is looking at Lucas, not Max.
Max says nothing as he approaches. Curiously, Billy is leaning against the passenger (Max's) side of the car. Once again, he is metaphorically and literally on her side.
Billy walks to the drivers side and keeps eye contact with Lucas as he gets in the car.
Lighting the cigarette that's been in his hand the entire time, he takes a drag. The silent tension is fucking fantastic. Sadie and Dacre have such wonderful chemistry.
Transcript
Billy: That kid you were talking to. Who is he?
Max: He’s no one.
Billy: No one?
Max: A kid from my class.
Billy: Why was he talking to you?
Max: S’about a stupid class assignment.
Billy: Then why are you so upset?
Max: I’m not!
Billy: He cause any trouble?
Max: Why do you care?
Billy: Because Max, you’re a piece of shit, but we’re family now, whether we like it or not meaning I’m stuck looking out for you.
Max: What would I ever—
Billy: grabs her wrist Hey! This is serious shit, okay? I’m older than you and something you learn is that there’s a certain types of people that you stay away from in this world. And that kid Max? That kid is one of them? You stay away from him, you hear me? Stay away.
End Transcript
———
The Max and Billy interactions
Speaking of narrative promises that are never delivered, there's an phenomenal shot of Billy looking out over the Camaro at Lucas, and Lucas seems to sense that because he turns around and looks right back at Billy.
Time to gush. The acting and tension in this scene is so good. Look at Lucas' face. The tension in this scene is great. Holy shit Caleb is such a good child actor and the way he stares down Dacre with no fear? With the look on his face of fuck with me and I'll beat the shit out of you. I don't care if you're older and stronger, just try me. Chefs fucking kiss. They should have given him 3x the amount of screen time he had in the show because wow this kid is so talented. (I also like Lucas better than Mike, but that's a tangent).
It's so hard not to gush about Dacre's acting and the choices he makes to convey so much with so little here.
During Sadie's dialogue, he’s not looking at her and takes a deep, loud breath through his nose and he’s fidgeting with his cigarette. What I love about this acting choice is that it shows how angry Billy is, but I personally don't read this as being because of Lucas being black. He’s angry that Max is lying to him. In later scenes, we are shown that Billy hates being lied to. Before the Steve and Billy brawl, Billy is honest, playful, and even friendly right up until the moment Steve lies to him.
gif source: phantom-evil
Billy is visibly annoyed. And shit, wouldn't you be? He watched a kid chase her down, one that she's previously called stalker, and now she's lying about how they know one another when Max yelled about this kid treating her like garbage? If that was my brother, he would have kicked that kids ass whether or not I had it handled.
Character dynamics are my jam, so what makes this scene compelling is the context that Billy oversaw and overheard the interaction.
And, sadly, Max and Billy are divided. Not just because of the move and the recent isolation, but because they can't have a conversation without hurt feelings.
Both Billy and Max are talking at one another and not with one another.
He’s worried about her and wants her to confide in him, to trust him, but he doesn't have the emotionally intelligence (or patience) to make that happen. Max is young and upset, maybe even spiraling from the argument with Lucas. She just moved to a new town and got a shot at a group of friends, but she rejected them before they could reject her. In her mind, Max just lost the only shot she had at friends in this small, rural town in bumfuck, Indiana.
Maybe she confided in Billy when they were in California? Given that they blame one another for the move, is it any wonder there's such distance and animosity between them?
Speaking of distance animosity, it's time to talk about the cause, garbage human Neil Hargrove.
Domestic violence
Billy grew up in a household destroyed by domestic violence.
Witnessing this interaction between Max and Lucas is certainly not a great look for Lucas. They just got here, like, what, FOUR days ago? And here's Max, yelling at him, saying she’s treated like garbage, they’re keeping secrets, her safety is made a topic of conversation, and she brings up being a girl, another girl is mentioned, causing them to drop to a whisper, and then Max is basically told she is different and to just trust him? The whole thing ends with Max storming off saying she doesn't want to be friends.
It's small and subtle, but Lucas unintentionally engages in gaslighting behaviors, including: disregarding Max’s feelings on how she is being treated like garbage with “That’s not true!” and Denying responsibility for how he treated Max. “Things we can’t tell you. For your own safety.” This is expressly saying he is not responsible for lying and excluding her, inferring to the audience that the US government and the NDA is.
Without spending too long on disclaimers and hedging: Lucas is not gaslighting Max intentionally and he is not an abuser. He's just a kid, doing his best. He has good reasons for not wanting to be completely honest. However, that does not excuse him ignoring and minimizing her feelings.
More importantly, Billy likely recognizes what's happening without knowing what gaslighting is. Before getting in the car, she's upset and yelling, then falls almost silent, then lies to him about how a boy is treating her. She's visibly upset before she even gets in the car because of the treatment of this boy he watched chase her.
Another important thing? Billy calls her family. There are a couple of times when we see Billy being genuine or sincere: when he is alone in the mirror, when he is in water, and when he calls Max his sister, not his step-sister. In this scene, Billy is genuine and sincere. He calls her family. Despite the situation they're in, he is telling her that he has her back, that she has him, no matter what. He's just too cool to be direct.
Lines line this make me wonder if she was in the car with him at least during some of the drive from California. When they got here, all they had was one another, so it's reasonable that despite the aggression between them, she told him about her day and the school. Remember his line about "What so you like it here now?"
gif source: phantom-evil
That said, there is something worth pointing out that I've never seen mentioned before. Billy grabs when when she raises her hand and his eyes snap to her hand. Billy. Who has been hit on screen, in the face, by his father grabs a hand when it is raised near his face. This might be over analysis on my part, but it is worth mentioning. Even in the gif above where he grabs her wrist, there's an almost startled look on his face when he's grabbing her wrist.
His heart-to-heart route doesn’t work and Max dismisses his advice and concern, he gets angry enough to grab her wrist. And look at the look on her face.
Max is shocked, the implication being that Billy rarely, if ever touches her. And sadly, it works. Now that he’s taken her wrist, Billy has her full and undivided attention. It is not the violence Neil uses to force him to comply, but it is obviously new behavior for him. And, apparently, it's worth the risk that Max might tell Susan or Neil that he did this to her. Based on the frames, he is not holding her that tightly, certainly not tight or hard enough to bruise. it is a firm hold though. If the punishment he could get for grabbing and threatening her is less than the punishment for Max and Lucas being around one another, where do you reckon this racism is coming from?
Without the script, it’s hard to say exactly what emotion Max is experiencing, but based on expression alone, her pinched eyebrows and parted lips, my bet is worry. She is not scared of Billy, but this is an intense reaction from him and one that she seems unfamiliar and unprepared for.
Now, here is where it can go one of two ways: she knows about Neil abusing Billy or she doesn’t. Runaway Max is not considered canon and I've never read it, and from what I've heard it has enough plot holes to pilot an aircraft carrier through, so I'm ignoring the idea that she does. Based on what we see of Max's actions in the show, she has not idea what’s going on at home. Susan and Billy are protecting her, and Neil would do his best to hide it. After all, Max is the Golden Child. Meaning, that she may have seen Billy injured, so the abuse never happens when she's around.
Billy touching her like this is new and Max has never had physical aggression placed on her like this before. Now, don’t misunderstand. This could be terrifying for most people, but it is not abuse. Max isn't afraid of Billy, but she is taking him seriously.
However, Billy says it himself, he’s older than Max and has more experience with things like this. He wants her to stay away from someone who has left Max upset, and according to the argument he just witnessed: lies to her, excludes her, treats her like garbage, and keeps secrets.
Abuse and control, which is entire Billy's life.
A little does Max know, but that is exactly the same position her mother is in. It’s the same position she is in. It’s the position Billy is in. And, it’s the position Billy’s mother was in. Neil has all the control.
While I do think there may be a racial charge in this scene-look at his eye contact and intensity-it does not seem like that is the intention of this scene in particular. Billy is more concerned about her safety and her being hurt and manipulated by someone else. He wants her to be safe, not just because he is charged with taking care of her, but also because he does see them as family. Does anyone remember Neil's motto? What did WE talk about?
Respect and responsibility.
Do you recall what Billy told her in relation to them being family? "I’m stuck looking out for you". Max is his responsibility. When she does something out of line, she is not punished. Billy is. This is the quintessential Golden Child/Scapegoat dynamic.
Importantly, most people focus on two phrases: “there are certain people in this world” and “that kid is one of them”
Now, many people see this as being about race. That “certain people” is code for "black people". And it could be. But, my interpretation of this scene is more of a double meaning.
To Billy “certain people” is about liars and abusers. He is warning Max to stay away from someone who has already done her emotional harm, ignored her wishes, lied to her, and made her feel lesser by the way she was treated.
Billy's own mother was beaten badly enough that she abandoned him. Max has no idea that abuse is going on in the house, which means that it is unlikely that Neil abuses Susan. Billy is his only target (for now). We have already seen Billy jump into a fight and protect his mother. Despite his bravado and bitching, he'd do anything to protect Max. How can I be so sure? Simple. He fought Steve.
Now here’s the thing. There is a racial reading of this scene because as much as people like to pretend that racism is not a factor in daily interactions in the United States, they’re usually wrong. And as much as the show runners like to ignore the setting they chose, this is set in 1986 in the midwest. There are so many interesting things to say about race and sexual orientation and how that relates to outcasts, which was supposed to be a theme of the fucking show.
Billy's actions are tainted by his previous trauma and experiences, which leads to harm to both Max and Lucas. It’s possible that since Max has no context for the abuse, and given the anger showed on her face in various frames when Billy is holding her arm, I suspect that Max reads this as racially motivated. Lucas does too.
It's also important to note that despite Billy's warning, Max does not stop seeing Lucas after this. Lucas even comes to her house and Billy doesn't call her out on her obvious lies about Mormons, chatty Mormons.
When Max goes 'missing', Billy knows exactly where she is, and goes so far as to lie to his father (his abuser) and Susan about it. Look at this face. This is a face that says, oh that stupid little shitbird is gonna get me killed running off with that dumb kid.
And yet, he still covers for her. Covers for them both. This is peak sibling behavior.
When he's sent off to find Max, Billy goes directly to the Sinclair house. Not only does Billy know where Lucas lives, but he speaks to Mrs. Sinclair about Max and Mrs. Sinclair trusts Billy enough to give her the Wheeler's address. Have they met before? Have they interacted before this evening? Another wonderful off screen interaction.
Curious as to why we had to be tortured with a scene between Billy and Karen fucking Wheeler instead of Billy and Mrs. Sinclair, but that's a rant for another day.
Also, I want to point out that there are is no GPS, no cell phones, nothing. Him knowing where Lucas' house is located is important because it means he knows the street, the house number, and how to drive there without any assistance.
Regardless of what the writers or Dacre wanted, in the narrative, Billy's actions caused harm to both kids, especially Lucas who would have reason to be afraid of Billy who is larger, stronger, and has a reputation for being violent.
Sometimes the way we perceive something is more important than the thing itself. Billy having racially charged interactions with Max (and later Lucas) is important, as it turns out. Micro-aggressions are real and without clear communication, this idea festers and causes tension.
Race is a factor in this discussion, however, the issue not not whether or not Billy is racist, because the narrative, the story we are watching does not tell us that. Yes, there is inferences, there is speculation, there are interviews, but there is no concrete, factual evidence of racism in the fucking show. The show is all that matters in terms of the message it sends and what it communicates.
As I said earlier, is he or is he not racist is not the fucking point. It should have never been the point.
Instead of the show DOING literally anything with subject of race, they tossed the racism innuendo in there so they could have their cake (representing racism in the 80s), and eat it to (never bring it up again)! And, respectfully, they also threw racism on a queer coded abuse victim who is so scared of his father that he freezes up, emotionally shuts down, and cries.
You don't bring in two serious issues that are this important into the plot and then never fucking address them again. There is no indication of how this story line affected Lucas. Did he tell his parents? Is he afraid of Billy? What happened after ward? Did they ever interact? Did Billy ever apologize to his sister's boyfriend?
We don't know because most things apparently happen off screen.
See what I mean about the is / is not racist question not being the point??
The issue of race is never presented with LUCAS as the focus. If this was a racism narrative, then why is the focus never on Lucas? The supposed victim?
Responsibility of writers and show runners
Finally, I put forth that if a writer has nothing meaningful to say about race, racial inequality, or systematic oppression, then they should sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.
Sure, make a fun, strange show about the 80s, but don't bring racism into it unless you're going to say something meaningful about racism.
Speaking without a coherent message in relation to race can unintentionally glorify certain actions or demonize race relations for the sake of shock value to create narrative tension without doing any of the narrative work required to actually engage with a topic as complex as racial injustice.
Do not sloppily open a can of racism if you don't intend to shoulder the consequences if you trip and spill it all over the table.
Do better, multi-million dollar media production houses.
And for those who think bashing Billy is the right answer? Here's a thought: maybe demand better from entertainment creators and show runners. Instead of being pissed off at a character in a show, maybe be upset with bad writers who are irresponsibly added a crude jab of 'Hmmm! Racism!’ into their show, by using a 13 year old boy to tell that story.
And speaking of that boy, he's a better actor then two of the the four boys and yet gets almost no screen time. More off screen development?
Are you sensing a pattern yet?
Fuck this shit. I'm out.
------
This meta actually ballooned out of control and I cut HUGE sections of it to make this more focused and coherent. If people are interested, I can create posts for the removed sections, which include:
Stranger Things' inability to discuss racism or racial injustice in any meaningful way
Racism and the armed forces/army (in respect to Neil)
Billy at the Byer's House (scene break downs similar to above)
Color and Costume analysis of the "There’s certain types of people you stay away from” scene
Discussion on Men as the Enemy (Billy's victimization at the hand of another man)
"at least venezuela lost a dictator" "the good thing about trump's invasion" "maduro deserved it" oh my god some of you are dangerously susceptible to fascist propaganda.
unfriendly and honestly hostile reminder that trump isn't invading venezuela because maduro is a dictator, or because of drug cartels. he's doing it only and exclusively because they have desirable oil reserves and no other reason. reminder that venezuela is a comparatively poor country that will never financially recover from this. reminder that venezuelans are suffering with the bombing and the air strikes. reminder that trump did it to steal from them and no one did anything. reminder that this sets a dangerous precedent and now all trump has to do to invade another country is claim they're in a dictatorship. reminder that trump is a fascist dictator.
this will only be bad, for venezuelans and for all of latin america (and possibly the whole world) in the long run. trump did this not to help the venezuelans or their country, but to steal their petrol and get away with it. and he will. because that's what dictators do.
So…I’m not gonna bring up my feelings about this finale, it’s not about that but rather i wanna answer a genuine question I’ve seen a lot for the past few days. The question is how the hell did Max manage to graduate if she was absent for her remaining months as a freshman, her entire sophomore year, and part of her junior year (because I would assume that she went back after winter break and not thanksgiving break even though in her state I would doubt that is enough time to recover)? Well I have just the answer to that somewhat!
…Credit Recovery
Yes, a painful yet helpful class known as Credit Recovery. Now for context I was enrolled to this class in my senior year of highschool because I failed U.S History and honestly my grades weren’t the best in my sophomore year. This program helps students who fail required courses (in my case) or who have fallen behind (which fits Max’s case due to being absent due to being comatose at the hospital). Though I’m not sure if Credit Recovery existed back in the late 80’s, I just wanted an excuse to give a valuable answer with my insights instead of just getting the excuse of that she somehow got it all done offscreen (looking at you duffers…👀).
So yeah even though it was alot on her plate she managed to get back on track and managed to walk the stage with her friends! Her friends helped her even when she thought of giving up and dropping out, they encouraged her to keep going and she did it! At night on days where she would study for those quizzes and written exams, she would feel oddly light, like a feeling of relief as she sleeps, maybe because she knew in the back of her mind that she would pass, or maybe it was something greater than that…that maybe something no…someone was lifting her up without knowing. Her older brothers spirit comes to her on occasion, praying, praying to the lord to open Max’s mind, to guide her and to help her remember every goddamn formula, every goddamn word, everything, and most importantly praying for her success. Though he knows he doesn’t have to he just does because he couldn’t be more proud of his shitty little sister.
Who do you think was really at fault in making the whole family move from California to Indiana? Max or Billy? And perhaps if any of them was actually right while arguing about it in Billy's car.
Guys, question, should I risk posting this to Twitter? Also, did I say my words right? I was just rambling and it probably doesn’t make sense, I just wanna know if I made sense of with what I was saying. (Edit: I probably missed some things too)
Every now and then I just think about Billy and where he could be in the moment. Well I mean, yeah he’s dead but Vecna always said that his victims always lived inside his mind. So every time I imagine it, I imagine there a dark corner in the back of his brain where Billy and the other victims (from season 3) of the mind flayer are. All of them floating endlessly in a void of either pure brightness or pure darkness, no escape. Here’s one scenario that pops in my head more often:
Billy is endlessly floating around, his body hurts, everything hurts, but he can’t move, he can’t speak, he can’t scream, his voice was taken, everything was taken from him. He feels like he’s attached to someone, his glossed over eyes look over weakly and see’s Heather, attached to him, stuck, it was comforting a tad bit, they were good friends but he can’t handle it. He can’t handle the constant screaming of all the other victims, Mrs. Driscoll, one of the kids that took swimming lessons with him, and Heather as examples but he had no choice but to listen to them all day while he himself couldn’t scream with them, it was a constant reminder of what happened, a constant reminder of what he-….no…the mind flayer did. All that he can do is cry, endless tears stream down his face as he realizes he might never be able to really rest, realizing that there are other horrors beyond his control and that most importantly, his little sister is in trouble, and he can’t help her at all, he can’t save her from this evil that he didn’t get the chance to understand. Hell for the second time…
Absolutely nothing will make me forget that Karen Wheeler is a sexual predator, that she wanted to be with a young man the same age as her daughter, that she enjoyed harassing Billy along with other women, and that she actively sought to provoke a sexual encounter with Billy.
I don't care how much they try to whitewash her image by portraying her as a strong woman and a good mother; she is a predator!
once again i really feel like, lucas sinclair is, ironically, the only one who's ever understood that there needs to be a balance between protecting el and letting her take her own risks. other characters - entirely understandably in most cases - either overrely on her powers or want her to suppress and stop altogether. lucas repeatedly states that she'll do her thing but they can and SHOULD help.
Why I fell out of love with some of the characters in Stranger Things (no hate to the characters…except for one)
(SPOILERS FOR SEASON 5) <— forgot to put a spoiler warning my bad
The main kids (excluding Lucas (sort of), Dustin, and Max): Starting with Mike, Mike was never really my favorite but I still liked him but then he was just an asshole through most of season 3 and 4 and he doesn’t deserve Jane OR Will so yeah…I feel like I liked him just a tad bit more during season 5 but still… Then with Will, he was one of my favorite characters…but then we were on thin ice because he barely ever had screen time…and then Noah literally handed out “Zionism is Sexy” stickers (FREE PALESTINE BTW‼️‼️🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸) and I was done with the character as a whole after that, like yes maybe for like a few short minutes I thought Will now having powers was cool but then the hype inside of me immediately faded I’m just tired of this guy (I don’t hate him for being Gay though…but for Mike? You’ve gotta do better than that bro 😭) For Jane, honestly idk bro I just don’t like her as much as I used to but she’s still cool as fuck in my book and I really hope she kills Vecna’s bitch ass 😤 (and honestly, I just feel bad because everyone is depending on her, a 15 (?) year old, to carry the burden of saving the fucking world let her RESSTTTTTT 😭✋) . Then I put sort of for Lucas because he’s one of my favorites in this main group of kids, but honestly this show really doesn’t do much with him, he’s just there to help the cast, doesn’t really get much development, is villanized in some occasion’s and honestly idk he just doesn’t get much recognition and it just pisses me off badly 😭
Murray Bauman: Lost interest in him too after his actor defended Noah for the “Zionism is Sexy” stickers and thinks it was sexy as well…do I need to elaborate further on how fucked up that is 😭 I was just looking at this mf with pure malice when I watched season 5…
Eddie Munson: AND THIS ONE IS A BIG ONE FOR ME BECAUSE I LOVED HIM SO FUCKING MUCH GUYS HOLY FUCK 😭😭😭 guy when I tell you I was obsessed with Eddie Munson, I was O B S E S S E D after watching the first part of season 4 so you can imagine how fucking devastated I was when he died in volume 2 I literally became depressed over this mf (along with other factors of my life during this time contributing to that) and then after my month long depression episode I realized that HE DIED FOR ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHINGGGGGG😭😭😭 and that thought pissed me off so bad that I fell out of love with him…I still love metal sandwich though and he’s one of the characters that got me through a tough time in my life so I can’t really dislike him as much as I want to
Robin Buckley: This one is for a stupid reason but I still really like Robin and this has nothing to do with her developments as a character through the 4th and 5th season. I fell out of love for her because there was this one instance where I wanted to search up something along the lines of, “Is Maya Hawke part of the LGBTQ+ community?” And now you may be wondering why would I search that and it’s because any other time I’ve ever seen her in media other than Stranger Things she is always kissing women so I was curious…two seconds later I find out she’s NOT part of the LGBTQ+ community and I just stared at my screen for a few moments because I didn’t know what to do with this information so yeah that’s basically why but like I still love Robin don’t get me wrong it’s just that that piece of information really threw me off…other than that I really love our Lesbian Queen ✨
Steve Harrington: Not so much but it’s still just weighs heavily in my soul how he had excellent character development from season 1 to 3 and then it just fucking FLOPS because of the fuck ass love triangle going on between Jonathan, Nancy, and Steve…like it pisses me off so bad how much the Duffers do not know how to FUCKING WRITE 😤
Jonathan: No development past season 2 and that really pisses me off, like yes he gives Will solid ass advice but he’s just…there bro he serves nothing like hello writers are y’all in the fucking building or??? 😭
Karen Wheeler…: I was manipulated by the narrative into thinking she was a girl boss and a good mother at the ripe age of 13 or 14 I don’t remember, but then as I came to the fandom by 2022 and became fixated on Billy I realized she was very predatory which was something I didn’t pick up on when I watched season 2 when I was way younger, everyone convinced me that Billy was the villain…which was way farther from the truth…this is a Karen Wheeler hate blog so Karen lovers please don’t interact…
Nancy Wheeler: idk there’s just something about her, like she’s very smart and I can respect her for it hell she even has some really good and badass moments but it’s just that all the Wheelers (except Holly) give me a bad taste in my mouth like I really dislike them 😖
This isn’t a character but…the show in general bro, I’ve fallen out of love with it…all my favs keep dying for no fucking reason, the plot is all over the goddamn place and just yeah…they got rid of Argyle too and with that and the amount of Zionists in this cast it has just gotten to the point where I want this show to be fucking OVER I’m sick and tired of it…but I will never be sick and tired of Billy and other background characters too (that have sadly passed away) though that’s for sure…
I think that’s all lowkey, sorry for the yap session I really needed to get this off my chest lmao. Maybe there’s more and I just haven’t thought about it much but I’ll make sure to update it if I can remember, also this is just a filler post, I have another post cooking up in my drafts, hope you guys look forward to it‼️ also despite what I’ve said here, it’s all just my opinion, you don’t have to agree with everything said but I do not want anyone to send hate my way I’m just saying why *I* fell out of love with these characters, it might be different for everyone‼️
Have a good evening guys and yes I’m not dead, just got reawaken hehe‼️
