Beethoven and Other Composers
This is a collection of Beethoven’s thoughts on other composers as well as other composers’ thoughts on him. This list currently focuses on some of Beethoven’s contemporaries as of September 16, 2021. This will be updated in the future. There will be a second (and maybe more) post in the future containing many more composers I left out here. If anyone has any more information on these people, leave it below! If anyone knows any other composers’ thoughts on Beethoven or vice versa that I did not mention, please let me know! Also, please inform me if I have made any errors in this post.
(Post updated October 1 and October 20)
(https://images.app.goo.gl/kahgbDzLCf2TiYZi8)
Cherubini
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Beethoven on Cherubini
Beethoven and Cherubini met in Vienna in 1805. Beethoven loved Cherubini’s music and appropriated aspects of his style. When Beethoven was asked who, apart from himself, he thought was the greatest living composer, he paused a little startled and then said “Cherubini”. Beethoven had also said another time that Cherubini was “Europe’s foremost dramatic composer.”
Beethoven wrote to Cherubini in 1823, “I am enraptured whenever I hear a new work of yours and feel as great an interest an it as in my own works—in brief, I honor and love you.”
Beethoven loved Cherubini’s Requiem in C minor, he even wanted it performed at his funeral.
Beethoven sent Cherubini a letter around the time of writing his Missa Solemnis, but apparently Cherubini never got it.
Beethoven wrote to Cherubini, “I prize your works more than all others written for the stage.”
Beethoven said to Louis Schlasser, “Say all conceivable pretty things to Cherubini,—that there is nothing I so ardently desire as that we should soon get another opera from him, and that of all our contemporaries I have the highest regard for him.”
According to Seyfried, Beethoven said, “Among all composers alive Cherubini is the most worthy of respect. I am in complete agreement, too, with his conception of the ‘Requiem,’ and if ever I come to write one I shall take note of many things.”
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Cherubini on Beethoven
Cherubini didn’t like Beethoven. He described Beethoven as “an unlicked bear cub” and said that his style was rough. He also said that Beethoven was “brusque.” He attended the first performance of Beethoven’s Fidelio and didn’t really like it.
Franz Joseph Haydn
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Beethoven on Haydn
Haydn was Beethoven’s teacher. He started teaching Beethoven in 1792. He was dealing with a teenage/young adult Beethoven, so Beethoven was obviously going to be difficult.
Beethoven was horrified when Haydn suggested that he write “pupil of Haydn” underneath his name on Op. 1 Piano Trios as a marketing trick. Beethoven felt that he learned nothing from Haydn so he did not write that he was a “pupil of Haydn” on Op. 1 Piano Trios.
Haydn suggested that Beethoven should not publish the third of the piano trios (C minor trio) because it would not have much public acceptance. Beethoven was offended at this remark because he believed that the third piano trio was the best of the set. He believed that Haydn envied the C minor trio.
This event clearly did not soil their relationship since Beethoven dedicated his next opus to Haydn.
On Haydn’s 76th birthday, Beethoven knelt down before Haydn and fervently kissed the hands and forehead of Haydn.
Ries said, “While composing Beethoven frequently thought of an object, although he often laughed at musical delineation and scolded about petty things of the sort. In this respect, “The Creation” and “The Seasons” were many times a butt, though without depreciation of Haydn’s loftier merits. Haydn’s choruses and other works were loudly praised by Beethoven.”
Beethoven said, “Do not tear the laurel wreaths from the heads of Handel, Haydn, and Mozart; they belong to them,—not yet to me.”
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Haydn on Beethoven
Haydn had an interest of taking Beethoven on his second trip to London.
Haydn genuinely liked Beethoven’s compositions and wished the best for him. When they met for the first time, Beethoven showed him his WoO 87 (Cantatas on the Death of Emperor Joseph II) and WoO O88 (Elevation of Emperor Leopold II) and Haydn was very impressed.
Haydn wrote a letter to the Elector Max Franz and said that Beethoven would fill the position of the greatest musicians in Europe. He also said that he wished Beethoven could stay with him longer.
Haydn called Beethoven “Der große Mogul” behind his back. He was basically calling Beethoven “big shot.”
Beethoven’s friend Ferdinand Ries said this, “I knew [all of Beethoven’s teachers] well; all three valued Beethoven highly, but were also of one mind touching his habits of study. All of them said Beethoven was so headstrong and self-sufficient (selbstwollend) that he had to learn much through harsh experience which he had refused to accept when it was presented to him as a subject of study.”
Haydn said to Beethoven, “You have a lot of talent and you will acquire even more, a lot more. You have an inexhaustible abundance of inspiration, you will have thoughts no one else has had, you will never sacrifice your thoughts to tyrannical rule, but you will sacrifice the rules to your fantasies. You give me the impression of a man who has many heads, many hearts, many souls.” (I read this on the French Wikipedia so if the translation is iffy, I am very sorry)
Johann Nepomuk Hummel
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Beethoven on Hummel
For some time, Beethoven and Hummel were friends. However, after some incidents, they became less close.
Beethoven wished for Hummel to improvise at his memorial concert.
Hummel made keyboard arrangements of Beethoven’s works and Beethoven did not agree with it. He disliked the style of Hummel’s arrangements.
Beethoven and Hummel had two completely different piano playing philosophies. This caused them to butt heads many times.
According to Carl Czerny, Beethoven’s student, Beethoven’s fans thought that “Hummel lacked all real imagination, his playing was monotonous as a hurdy-gurdy, the application of his fingers was like a garden spider, and his compositions were mere arrangements of themes by Mozart and Haydn.”
Ignaz von Mosel, an Austrian court official, composer, and musician, commented on the differences between Beethoven’s and Hummel’s styles. He said, “Herr Louis van Beethoven, whose playing is marked by velocity, power and precision, even more by his compositions, while Herr Joh. Nepomuk Hummel’s is recognized by it’s order, clarity and grace.”
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Hummel on Beethoven
Beethoven’s arrival in Vienna is said to have shattered Hummel’s self-confidence.
Hummel said about Beethoven, “I readily admit that today Ludwig is far superior to me as a composer. But probably not as a virtuoso at the piano.”
Beethoven was commissioned by Prince Nikolaus II Esterhazy to write a mass. Beethoven wrote his Mass in C and it was performed in Eisenstadt were Hummel was Kapellmeister. The performance did not go well and the prince made a comment behind Beethoven’s back which Hummel reportedly laughed at.
When Beethoven was one his deathbed, Hummel traveled all the way from Weimar to Vienna to see Beethoven. Hummel visited Beethoven three times on his death bed.
On Beethoven’s death bed, Hummel got Beethoven’s signature so Hummel could protect his compositions from illegal copying.
Hummel was present at Beethoven’s funeral. He was a pallbearer.
According to Czerny, Hummel’s fans “reproached Beethoven that he abused the fortepiano, that he was deficient in purity and clarity, that he, through the use of the pedal, only produced confused noise, that his compositions were far-fetched, unnatural, without melody and irregular.”
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
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Beethoven on Mozart
Young Beethoven played Mozart’s piano concertos in Bonn and was heavily influenced by him. Young Beethoven once thought he accidentally plagiarized off Mozart. He wrote a passage in C minor and under it wrote, “This entire passage has been stolen from Mozart Symphony in C, where the Andante in 6/8 from the... [he stopped writing here].” He wrote the supposedly plagiarized passage below the text, however, no such passage was ever found in a Mozart symphony that we know of.
Beethoven meet Mozart in Vienna in 1787. According to Ignaz von Seyfried, this is what happened:
“Beethoven made a short stay at Vienna, in the year 1790, whither he had gone for the sake of hearing Mozart, to whom he had letters of introduction. Beethoven improvised before Mozart, who listened with some indifference, believing it to be a piece learned by heart. Beethoven then demanded, with his characteristic ambition, a given theme to work out; Mozart, with a sceptical smile, gave him at once a chromatic motivo for a fugue, in which, al rovescio, the countersubject for a double fugue lay concealed. Beethoven was not intimidated, and worked out the subject, the secret intention of which he immediately perceived, at great length and with such remarkable originality and power that Mozart's attention was rivetted, and his wonder so excited that he stepped softly into the adjoining room where some friends were assembled, and whispered to them with sparkling eyes: ‘Don't lose sight of this young man, he will one day tell you some things that will surprise you!”
You can read Hummel’s perspective on Mozart and Beethoven’s meeting here: https://www.henle.de/blog/en/2020/01/27/beethoven-meets-mozart/ (Warning! It’s long.)
Beethoven said Mozart had “a fine but choppy way of playing, no legato.”
Though he wasn’t exactly bashing Mozart’s operas, he believed that he would never write music to librettos with similar themes to Mozart’s. He said, “I need a text which stimulates me; it must be something moral, uplifting. Texts such as Mozart composed I should never have been able fo set to music. I could never have got myself into a mood for such licentious texts. I have received many librettos, but, as I said, none that met my wishes.”
I’m putting this quote I already showed in the Haydn part too: “Do not tear the laurel wreaths from the heads of Handel, Haydn, and Mozart; they belong to them,—not yet to me.”
Beethoven said, “I have always reckoned myself myself among the greatest admirers of Mozart, and shall do so till the day of my death.”
Beethoven said this to Cramer after hearing Mozart’s piano concerto in C minor: “Cramer! Cramer! We shall never be able to compose anything like that!”
Beethoven said according to Seyfried, “‘Die Zauberflöte’ will always remain Mozart’s greatest work, for in it he for the first time showed himself to be a great German musician. ‘Don Juan’ still has the complete Italian cut; besides our sacred art ought never permit itself to be degraded to the level of foil for so scandalous a subject.”
The Baronin Born asked Beethoven what his favorite Mozart opera was and he said it was ‘Die Zauberflöte.’
(https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ludwig-van-Beethoven)
Mozart on Beethoven
When Mozart heard Beethoven play for the first time, he said, “Mark that young man, he will make a name for himself in the world.”
Mozart died shortly after Beethoven came to Vienna so they did not get to interact much.
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Second Part: https://theferretgeneral.tumblr.com/post/662537492215496704/beethoven-and-other-composers-part-two (Schubert and Rossini)
Third Part: https://theferretgeneral.tumblr.com/post/662710737497735168/beethoven-and-other-composers-and-musicians-part
Fourth Part: https://theferretgeneral.tumblr.com/post/669959288702337024/what-did-brahms-liszt-and-schumann-think-of
Sources:
Beethoven and Haydn: Their Relationship. ClassicFM. https://www.classicfm.com/composers/beethoven/guides/beethoven-and-haydn-their-relationship/
Did Beethoven Meet Mozart? ClassicFM, 6 March 2018. https://www.classicfm.com/composers/beethoven/guides/beethoven-and-mozart/
Haydn and Beethoven. Popular Beethoven. https://www.popularbeethoven.com/haydn-and-beethoven/
Johann Nepomuk Hummel (1778-1837) - Reproduktion eines Schabkunstblattes, vielleicht von Franz Wrenk. B 1618, Beethoven-Haus Bönn. https://www.beethoven.de/en/media/view/4767400939487232/Johann+Nepomuk+Hummel+%281778-1837%29+-+Reproduktion+eines+Schabkunstblattes%2C+vielleicht+von+Franz+Wrenk?fromArchive=4886601146564608
Jones, Rhys. Beethoven and the Sound of the Revolution in Vienna, 1792-1814. Cambridge University, 12 November 2014.
Luigi Cherubini (1760-1842) - Stich von Friedrich Wilhelm Bollinger. B 2383, Beethoven-Haus Bönn. https://www.beethoven.de/en/media/view/5065980724117504/Luigi+Cherubini+%281760-1842%29+-+Stich+von+Friedrich+Wilhelm+Bollinger?fromArchive=4886601146564608
Predota, Georg. Ludwig van Beethoven to His Fellow Musicians. Interlude, 22 September 2020. https://interlude.hk/ludwig-van-b-and-his-fellow-musicians/
Predota, Georg. Ludwig van Beethoven to His Fellow Musicians II. Interlude, 20 October, 2020. https://interlude.hk/ludwig-van-b-and-his-fellow-musicians-ii/
Salieri and Beethoven. Popular Beethoven. https://www.popularbeethoven.com/salieri-and-beethoven/
Seiffert, Wolf-Dieter. Beethoven meets Mozart. The genesis of Beethoven’s Mozart Variations WoO 40 according to Johann Nepomuk Hummel’s memoirs (first published). G. Henle Verlag, 27 January 2020. https://www.henle.de/blog/en/2020/01/27/beethoven-meets-mozart/
Somlai, Petra. Two Viennese piano schools: Beethoven and Hummel. Royal Conservatory, 2019. https://www.researchcatalogue.net/view/555906/559358
















