Transing minors will trans LGB youth
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Transing minors will trans LGB youth
if you want to lose faith in everything there is a popular discourse on this website insinuating that lesbians are horrible human beings for not being attracted to amab bodies / penis and the people supporting this harmful rhetoric are not even straight men — they are members of the lgbt+ community.
[snipped for length]
pretty cute how afab people get to be “girls” and “lesbians” but amab people get to be fucking “bodies” in this post. could you be any more dehumanizing?? literally what the fuck was stopping you from saying “amab people” ?? jesus christ. is that your way of saying that trans women still aren’t women (or people for that matter) to you even if they’ve gotten surgery? i’m guessing it is lol
btw lesbian sexuality is not all about afab people or vaginas. it’s fine if you’re repulsed by something because you really can’t help that but stop making these blanket statements. you’re probably one of those ppl who thinks “lesbians can never like penis” just bc you dont like it or whatever the fuck. god.
like are people right to harass others and send death threats?? no but this post is still a load of bullshit and paints trans women as being evil and predatory– even though afab trans people support this “discourse” just as often as amab trans people do lol.. but once again, everything is the fault of trans women with you people, isn’t it? afab people are just innocent little angels who are manipulated by trans women, right? :~) fuck you
Female homosexuality is just so problematic.
More from non-gay people at 10.
“even though afab trans people support this “discourse””- Once someone has stated what their sexual preference is any “discourse” to talk them out of it is sexual harassment. If you don’t want young lesbians sending posts like that tell people in the trans community to stop doing what they are doing to lesbians that don't consider dicks female. Because their actions are provoking this. Its actually none of your business if they consider your dick female or not if they are not interfering with your rights to live your life and go where you want to go.
How come I, a lesbian, a female homosexual, can understand that a straight woman, a female heterosexual woman, is not interested in pursuing a relationship with me because I am a female and she is exclusively attracted to males,
how come I as a lesbian understand and accept that fully but so many “trans lesbians” act as if sexual orientation and sexual preference, concepts based on sex i.e. a person’s parts (sex characteristics) and the parts that are parts as a result of original parts (secondary sex characteristics), aren’t a thing and literally villainize lesbians for not wanting to be in relationships with them,
how come lesbians aren’t shitting on straight women for not wanting to have sex with them or for not wanting a romantic relationship with them,
how come lesbians never claim that straight women are oppressive just because they don’t want to have sex with us,
?
I think the problem is that while cis lesbians understand that straight women like men and lesbians are not men, trans women know that lesbians like *women* and because many trans women define “women” as “people who internally, innately understand themselves to be women, regardless of birth assignment or genital shape” and many cis people define “women” as “people who were born with vaginas and designated female as birth by doctors,” there’s a disconnect. Many trans people feel that they *are* their genders, innately, regardless of whether or not they’ve been on HRT or had GRS or can “pass” as their genders. They know that other people perceiving them as their birth-assigned gender and asserting biology as destiny (ie: “you were born with a penis, so that means there’s something masculine about you”) contributes to overwhelming feelings of dysphoria, depression, self-hatred, and suicidal ideation in some trans people. Given that, they often feel that asserting a baby with a penis is a “male” baby and is a “boy” and that a baby with a vagina is a “female” baby and is a “girl” can set potential trans children up for all that dysphoria and pain later on. Because of this, some wish to remove the genital criteria from “maleness” and “femaleness” and either have come up with non-gendered, medical words for “person who reproduces with penis” and “people who reproduces with a vagina” and “person who cannot reproduce” and then let individuals determine their own genders OR completely drop the idea of gender altogether and let people be who they are.
This discourse is relatively new, and people are pushing for “love the person, not the genitals.” Some people in the trans community believe that attraction is based on innate, self-understood gender and not based on genitals or any other sex characteristics. Since they believe that a trans woman is completely, 100% female and they believe that deciding someone is male simply because of their penis erases trans identities and harms trans youth, they often believe that it is that innate womanhood that lesbians want and that lesbians who reject trans women are rejecting them based on a flawed belief that penises are “male.” They suspect that if lesbians understood that penises were not “male” (in the sense that they don’t make someone “a boy” or “a man”), then lesbians *would* be okay with penises. This attitude gets reinforced when many lesbians say stuff like “no, I’m not going to be with a trans woman because I like women, not men” or “you’re not a real woman, so no.”
The fact that “no” is in both these sentences should end the discussion completely, and it’s horrible if it doesn’t. However, if you felt like someone was rejecting you because they thought something was true about you that wasn’t (like that you were a member of a political party you always vote against, for example), you might want to be like “hey wait a second, that’s wrong.” The problem is that while most of them are saying “I want a woman,” what they mean is “I want someone with conventional XX biology or something close to it (since some intersex people are assigned female at birth and grow up essentially indistinguishable from XX women except for things like lack of periods or what-have-you).”
I have to wonder if the language could be rephrased to say “I like this *kind* of woman better” rather than “I like women and you’re not a woman,” maybe dysphoria would be less triggered by this kind of rejection. Maybe not. I don’t know. The fact is that trans women are a marginalized group, and so there’s this hair-thin line between “I am not comfortable with the kind of body you have/I am not attracted to the kind of body you have” and “I think being trans is bad/dirty/wrong/invalid/etc.” Regardless of which category you’re in, no one should pressure you into sex.
I personally think that people who experience gender and attraction as something innate are just as valid as people who experience gender and attraction as something biological. I think we need language to support both groups of people without anyone getting labeled a “bigot” for having their own needs and preferences. That said, I also recognize that there’s a problem of too few people wanting to be with trans people. I think that problem should be addressed more globally by spreading understanding so that people who are on the fence can make informed decisions like “oh, I thought negative things based on porn stereotypes, but now I realize this is actually okay” or “I hadn’t considered that a trans person could be attractive, but now I’m thinking differently” and people who have “no penises” or “no vaginas” as hard-limits won’t be harassed for feeling that way anymore.
In short, there is a difference between a lesbian being angry that a straight woman who likes men doesn’t like women and a trans woman being upset that a lesbian who likes women doesn’t like the kind of woman they are or acknowledge that the kind of woman they are is a woman at all. They’re different issues, but they’re similar in that no one should pressure anyone else into sex or create ultimatums surrounding attraction.
However, if you felt like someone was rejecting you because they thought something was true about you that wasn’t (like that you were a member of a political party you always vote against, for example), you might want to be like “hey wait a second, that’s wrong.” The problem is that while most of them are saying “I want a woman,” what they mean is “I want someone with conventional XX biology or something close to it (since some intersex people are assigned female at birth and grow up essentially indistinguishable from XX women except for things like lack of periods or what-have-you).”
I understand the sentiment behind that.
I also knew the other concepts you talked about in your response (thanks for it, by the way, it explained a lot of points I wanted to allude to in a way far more eloquently than I had made them to be in my post), and made this out of frustration one day. I know that there’s a difference between a lesbian being upset about a straight woman not wanting to pursue her and a trans woman being upset that a lesbian won’t pursue her, especially as gender politics become more and more and more popular in society. I know that the lines can be a lot less hard and fast when it comes to trans individuals and dating at times and that this could have come off as insensitive to them. It was not the best comparison, I admit. And I could have made that clearer instead of just “blowing off steam” with a badly-worded narrative.
That said, I also recognize that there’s a problem of too few people wanting to be with trans people. I think that problem should be addressed more globally by spreading understanding so that people who are on the fence can make informed decisions like “oh, I thought negative things based on porn stereotypes, but now I realize this is actually okay” or “I hadn’t considered that a trans person could be attractive, but now I’m thinking differently” and people who have “no penises” or “no vaginas” as hard-limits won’t be harassed for feeling that way anymore.
I agree 100 percent. The fact that our society really makes trans people out to be predatory or creepy or gross or unattractive is unfortunate, and I’m sure there are plenty of LG people–more so than not–that are actively working to fight this stigma, I’d like to think myself included. I’m all for trans people finding love and happiness with other people, romantic or otherwise. And to say that we all don’t have a lot of unlearning to do–even the most accepting of us–about trans people and our preconceived notions of them would be a lie. Trans people deserve to have their bodies, and more importantly their experiences and human-ness, respected. That’s a basic right, of course.
But that onus is not on gay people. That onus is not on lesbians. And gay people should not be some type of acceptance milestone or what have you for trans people to validate themselves IF that means pressuring gay people to date/have sex with/pursue a relationship with people they otherwise would not have just so they can prove that they aren’t bigoted or hateful. This is what I had really meant to illustrate with my example/rant. The idea that LG people having boundaries is seen as trans-hating, when there’s nothing about LG identities that are transphobic inherently (LG people can and have and will continue to, I’m sure, date trans and dysphoric individuals) is not a notion that should be embraced… I know no LG people that think that straight people are homophobic for not experiencing same-sex attraction. And for good reason–it isn’t.
It’s interesting that you mention dating L and G people being some kind of “milestone” for some trans people. I once watched a video where a trans guy mentioned a similar thing for straight trans men wanting to date straight women to show that they’re “male enough” to specifically date straight girls. Personally I wonder if this is somewhat constructed by society since passing is seen as the ultimate marker of whether or not a trans person’s identity is valid. If a cis guy could easily date gay men, then a trans guy who had better luck with bisexuals and pansexuals might feel like he wasn’t on a totally equal playing field with cis men who are easily able to date biology-attracted monosexuals or something. Regardless of why it happens, feeling like a trophy is definitely not a pleasant feeling for any partner, regardless of attraction type.
I wonder if this ends up hurting pan people or bi people at all, especially when it seems like there’s an unspoken accusation of “but you’d just be attracted to anybody, so how do I know you see me as a woman?” or something like that. Obviously not all people feel that way or think those things, but that question seems to be there when so much emphasis is placed on needing to date monosexuals, regardless of biological attraction factors.
Also, I think the hostility hurts cis gay and lesbian people who do date trans people because they’re seen as traitors in some battle rather than people living their lives.
Also, I think the hostility hurts cis gay and lesbian people who do date trans people because they’re seen as traitors in some battle rather than people living their lives.
I’m not sure if you’re referencing my hostility or not. I honestly do not care if someone who identifies as a gay man, for example, dates a trans man or if someone who identifies as a lesbian dates a trans woman if that’s what they had wanted to do and weren’t pushed into doing it. I have other opinions on those instances but that’s for another post, but it’s mostly just do what makes you happy.
Rather, I’m addressing a set of circumstances where a LG person feels pressured to date someone they don’t ant to–trans or not–in order to be accepted. LG people already bombarded with messages saying that we actually like penis/vagina and/or men/women when we don’t and aren’t attracted to them; most people can see the homophobia (and rape implications) inherent within that. My only wish is that trans people, on all levels of passing, respected LG people for that and respect our “no, thanks” and not see that as hate… Like I said, it’s not always as hard and fast when it comes to trans individuals but rather than demanding access to unwilling LG people’s bodies, one would think the argument is “let me find someone that DOES want to be with me in that way.” Not “let me MAKE someone that does not want to be with me in that way want to or feel like they have to.” Like you mentioned earlier, there is an issue of stigma when it comes to trans individuals that tend to paint them in a bad light, and this is undeserved. However, me saying I don’t want to date a male person or dmab/amab person or “penis person” or what have you is not me saying, or thinking, that those stereotypes or those stigmas are okay. They aren’t. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
My no, and other LG people’s no, is not tacking on a “you’re disgusting” or “you don’t deserve respect” or anything like that. Not inherently. There are plenty of LG people that do think that–and may say that verbatim–but the fact that the two are conflated is so problematic and troublesome.
It’s interesting how this issue–the issue of not being able to say “no” without backlash–impacts gay people far more than straight people, and lesbians far more than gay men, but what else is new?
People have every right to base their sexual orientation on biology. If others don’t I think that’s great. But for most people biology is a factor in attractions. And the only people that get seriously harassed for this regularly are lesbians and it needs to stop now period. The depression and suicide rates in the trans community are tragic. But the burden of rejection and high suicide rates in the trans community should not fall on an 18 year old lesbian on Tumblr who just wants to enjoy pussy the way god created it in her sexual relationship. If other people aren’t hung up on physicality great. If others fall in love with people based on personality and are into different situations that trans people present awesome. But attacking lesbians who aren’t like that needs to stop because 99% of straight people are like that as well. And no there isn’t an actual difference to not being attracted to certain types of women and not being attracted to a person of the same sex if you are heterosexual. A lesbian that is sincerely attracted to a trans woman will date her if she is feeling it. Stop the pressure.
A lesbian that is sincerely attracted to a trans woman will date her if she is feeling it. Stop the pressure.
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y. “Lesbian” is a label that describes, not prescribes. A lesbian is a lesbian whether she identifies that way or not. A bisexual woman is a bisexual woman whether she identifies that way or not. If a lesbian-identifying woman is genuinely attracted to a trans woman, there’s no Sappho Shield™ or some bullshit that will stop her from pursuing her if she so pleases. The fact that there is this active agenda (cotton ceiling) that is dedicated to pressuring lesbians into sleeping with trans women is so rape-y because if you have to pressure a lesbian into dating you, SHE DOESN’T WANT TO DATE YOU! If you have to talk someone into dating you, they don’t want to date you. You’re being predatory. Trans or not. Sorry. But move on. Don’t be a manipulative shit.
(also, “but the burden of rejection and high suicide rates in the trans community should not fall on an 18 year old lesbian on Tumblr who just wants to enjoy pussy the way god created it in her sexual relationship” 10/10 line tbh)
The weight of this is directed at the lesbian community but sexual freedom also applies to bisexual women who have an extreme amount of pressure to identify as pan. A bi woman has a right to not be interested in a trans person because she isn't turned on by the fact that someone suffers from dysphoria issues enough to surgically alter their body. That’s not transphobia, that is her personal tastes. And it’s no one’s business and she should not be harassed for it. In addition a bi woman or lesbian is not actually obligated to even view trans women as women if they don't look at it that way. It’s not math here. As long as they treat the trans women with respect and compassion and DO NOT interfere with trans women’s human rights it is completely irrelevant what they think despite what this identity-affirming obsession culture says. I am all for trans people dating. The world is a big place and there are partners out that with all kinds of wants and needs for trans people. But the right to personal boundaries and sexual agency is a hill I will f***ing-die on. Young women tend to want to put others needs above their own desires and that doesn't need to be encouraged.
How come I, a lesbian, a female homosexual, can understand that a straight woman, a female heterosexual woman, is not interested in pursuing a relationship with me because I am a female and she is exclusively attracted to males,
how come I as a lesbian understand and accept that fully but so many “trans lesbians” act as if sexual orientation and sexual preference, concepts based on sex i.e. a person’s parts (sex characteristics) and the parts that are parts as a result of original parts (secondary sex characteristics), aren’t a thing and literally villainize lesbians for not wanting to be in relationships with them,
how come lesbians aren’t shitting on straight women for not wanting to have sex with them or for not wanting a romantic relationship with them,
how come lesbians never claim that straight women are oppressive just because they don’t want to have sex with us,
?
I think the problem is that while cis lesbians understand that straight women like men and lesbians are not men, trans women know that lesbians like *women* and because many trans women define “women” as “people who internally, innately understand themselves to be women, regardless of birth assignment or genital shape” and many cis people define “women” as “people who were born with vaginas and designated female as birth by doctors,” there’s a disconnect. Many trans people feel that they *are* their genders, innately, regardless of whether or not they’ve been on HRT or had GRS or can “pass” as their genders. They know that other people perceiving them as their birth-assigned gender and asserting biology as destiny (ie: “you were born with a penis, so that means there’s something masculine about you”) contributes to overwhelming feelings of dysphoria, depression, self-hatred, and suicidal ideation in some trans people. Given that, they often feel that asserting a baby with a penis is a “male” baby and is a “boy” and that a baby with a vagina is a “female” baby and is a “girl” can set potential trans children up for all that dysphoria and pain later on. Because of this, some wish to remove the genital criteria from “maleness” and “femaleness” and either have come up with non-gendered, medical words for “person who reproduces with penis” and “people who reproduces with a vagina” and “person who cannot reproduce” and then let individuals determine their own genders OR completely drop the idea of gender altogether and let people be who they are.
This discourse is relatively new, and people are pushing for “love the person, not the genitals.” Some people in the trans community believe that attraction is based on innate, self-understood gender and not based on genitals or any other sex characteristics. Since they believe that a trans woman is completely, 100% female and they believe that deciding someone is male simply because of their penis erases trans identities and harms trans youth, they often believe that it is that innate womanhood that lesbians want and that lesbians who reject trans women are rejecting them based on a flawed belief that penises are “male.” They suspect that if lesbians understood that penises were not “male” (in the sense that they don’t make someone “a boy” or “a man”), then lesbians *would* be okay with penises. This attitude gets reinforced when many lesbians say stuff like “no, I’m not going to be with a trans woman because I like women, not men” or “you’re not a real woman, so no.”
The fact that “no” is in both these sentences should end the discussion completely, and it’s horrible if it doesn’t. However, if you felt like someone was rejecting you because they thought something was true about you that wasn’t (like that you were a member of a political party you always vote against, for example), you might want to be like “hey wait a second, that’s wrong.” The problem is that while most of them are saying “I want a woman,” what they mean is “I want someone with conventional XX biology or something close to it (since some intersex people are assigned female at birth and grow up essentially indistinguishable from XX women except for things like lack of periods or what-have-you).”
I have to wonder if the language could be rephrased to say “I like this *kind* of woman better” rather than “I like women and you’re not a woman,” maybe dysphoria would be less triggered by this kind of rejection. Maybe not. I don’t know. The fact is that trans women are a marginalized group, and so there’s this hair-thin line between “I am not comfortable with the kind of body you have/I am not attracted to the kind of body you have” and “I think being trans is bad/dirty/wrong/invalid/etc.” Regardless of which category you’re in, no one should pressure you into sex.
I personally think that people who experience gender and attraction as something innate are just as valid as people who experience gender and attraction as something biological. I think we need language to support both groups of people without anyone getting labeled a “bigot” for having their own needs and preferences. That said, I also recognize that there’s a problem of too few people wanting to be with trans people. I think that problem should be addressed more globally by spreading understanding so that people who are on the fence can make informed decisions like “oh, I thought negative things based on porn stereotypes, but now I realize this is actually okay” or “I hadn’t considered that a trans person could be attractive, but now I’m thinking differently” and people who have “no penises” or “no vaginas” as hard-limits won’t be harassed for feeling that way anymore.
In short, there is a difference between a lesbian being angry that a straight woman who likes men doesn’t like women and a trans woman being upset that a lesbian who likes women doesn’t like the kind of woman they are or acknowledge that the kind of woman they are is a woman at all. They’re different issues, but they’re similar in that no one should pressure anyone else into sex or create ultimatums surrounding attraction.
However, if you felt like someone was rejecting you because they thought something was true about you that wasn’t (like that you were a member of a political party you always vote against, for example), you might want to be like “hey wait a second, that’s wrong.” The problem is that while most of them are saying “I want a woman,” what they mean is “I want someone with conventional XX biology or something close to it (since some intersex people are assigned female at birth and grow up essentially indistinguishable from XX women except for things like lack of periods or what-have-you).”
I understand the sentiment behind that.
I also knew the other concepts you talked about in your response (thanks for it, by the way, it explained a lot of points I wanted to allude to in a way far more eloquently than I had made them to be in my post), and made this out of frustration one day. I know that there’s a difference between a lesbian being upset about a straight woman not wanting to pursue her and a trans woman being upset that a lesbian won’t pursue her, especially as gender politics become more and more and more popular in society. I know that the lines can be a lot less hard and fast when it comes to trans individuals and dating at times and that this could have come off as insensitive to them. It was not the best comparison, I admit. And I could have made that clearer instead of just “blowing off steam” with a badly-worded narrative.
That said, I also recognize that there’s a problem of too few people wanting to be with trans people. I think that problem should be addressed more globally by spreading understanding so that people who are on the fence can make informed decisions like “oh, I thought negative things based on porn stereotypes, but now I realize this is actually okay” or “I hadn’t considered that a trans person could be attractive, but now I’m thinking differently” and people who have “no penises” or “no vaginas” as hard-limits won’t be harassed for feeling that way anymore.
I agree 100 percent. The fact that our society really makes trans people out to be predatory or creepy or gross or unattractive is unfortunate, and I’m sure there are plenty of LG people–more so than not–that are actively working to fight this stigma, I’d like to think myself included. I’m all for trans people finding love and happiness with other people, romantic or otherwise. And to say that we all don’t have a lot of unlearning to do–even the most accepting of us–about trans people and our preconceived notions of them would be a lie. Trans people deserve to have their bodies, and more importantly their experiences and human-ness, respected. That’s a basic right, of course.
But that onus is not on gay people. That onus is not on lesbians. And gay people should not be some type of acceptance milestone or what have you for trans people to validate themselves IF that means pressuring gay people to date/have sex with/pursue a relationship with people they otherwise would not have just so they can prove that they aren’t bigoted or hateful. This is what I had really meant to illustrate with my example/rant. The idea that LG people having boundaries is seen as trans-hating, when there’s nothing about LG identities that are transphobic inherently (LG people can and have and will continue to, I’m sure, date trans and dysphoric individuals) is not a notion that should be embraced… I know no LG people that think that straight people are homophobic for not experiencing same-sex attraction. And for good reason–it isn’t.
It’s interesting that you mention dating L and G people being some kind of “milestone” for some trans people. I once watched a video where a trans guy mentioned a similar thing for straight trans men wanting to date straight women to show that they’re “male enough” to specifically date straight girls. Personally I wonder if this is somewhat constructed by society since passing is seen as the ultimate marker of whether or not a trans person’s identity is valid. If a cis guy could easily date gay men, then a trans guy who had better luck with bisexuals and pansexuals might feel like he wasn’t on a totally equal playing field with cis men who are easily able to date biology-attracted monosexuals or something. Regardless of why it happens, feeling like a trophy is definitely not a pleasant feeling for any partner, regardless of attraction type.
I wonder if this ends up hurting pan people or bi people at all, especially when it seems like there’s an unspoken accusation of “but you’d just be attracted to anybody, so how do I know you see me as a woman?” or something like that. Obviously not all people feel that way or think those things, but that question seems to be there when so much emphasis is placed on needing to date monosexuals, regardless of biological attraction factors.
Also, I think the hostility hurts cis gay and lesbian people who do date trans people because they’re seen as traitors in some battle rather than people living their lives.
Also, I think the hostility hurts cis gay and lesbian people who do date trans people because they’re seen as traitors in some battle rather than people living their lives.
I’m not sure if you’re referencing my hostility or not. I honestly do not care if someone who identifies as a gay man, for example, dates a trans man or if someone who identifies as a lesbian dates a trans woman if that’s what they had wanted to do and weren’t pushed into doing it. I have other opinions on those instances but that’s for another post, but it’s mostly just do what makes you happy.
Rather, I’m addressing a set of circumstances where a LG person feels pressured to date someone they don’t ant to–trans or not–in order to be accepted. LG people already bombarded with messages saying that we actually like penis/vagina and/or men/women when we don’t and aren’t attracted to them; most people can see the homophobia (and rape implications) inherent within that. My only wish is that trans people, on all levels of passing, respected LG people for that and respect our “no, thanks” and not see that as hate… Like I said, it’s not always as hard and fast when it comes to trans individuals but rather than demanding access to unwilling LG people’s bodies, one would think the argument is “let me find someone that DOES want to be with me in that way.” Not “let me MAKE someone that does not want to be with me in that way want to or feel like they have to.” Like you mentioned earlier, there is an issue of stigma when it comes to trans individuals that tend to paint them in a bad light, and this is undeserved. However, me saying I don’t want to date a male person or dmab/amab person or “penis person” or what have you is not me saying, or thinking, that those stereotypes or those stigmas are okay. They aren’t. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
My no, and other LG people’s no, is not tacking on a “you’re disgusting” or “you don’t deserve respect” or anything like that. Not inherently. There are plenty of LG people that do think that–and may say that verbatim–but the fact that the two are conflated is so problematic and troublesome.
It’s interesting how this issue–the issue of not being able to say “no” without backlash–impacts gay people far more than straight people, and lesbians far more than gay men, but what else is new?
People have every right to base their sexual orientation on biology. If others don’t I think that’s great. But for most people biology is a factor in attractions. And the only people that get seriously harassed for this regularly are lesbians and it needs to stop now period. The depression and suicide rates in the trans community are tragic. But the burden of rejection and high suicide rates in the trans community should not fall on an 18 year old lesbian on Tumblr who just wants to enjoy pussy the way god created it in her sexual relationship. If other people aren't hung up on physicality great. If others fall in love with people based on personality and are into different situations that trans people present awesome. But attacking lesbians who aren’t like that needs to stop because 99% of straight people are like that as well. And no there isn’t an actual difference to not being attracted to certain types of women and not being attracted to a person of the same sex if you are heterosexual. A lesbian that is sincerely attracted to a trans woman will date her if she is feeling it. Stop the pressure.
Is it transphobic to not be attracted to trans people in your opinion?
if the reason you don’t find someone attractive is because they are trans then yes that is transphobic
No its not
uh. yea it is
It’s not. Some people are only attracted to cis people.
yeah they’re called transphobes
Oh fuck lol
That makes no sense though. So every straight person who thinks homosexuality is as normal as can be, but is just not attracted to any gay men as a cis man or not attracted to gay woman as a cis woman, is a homophobe? What about sexual preference? Or if someone is black and only falls for white people, that makes them a racist? I don’t think so. You like what you like, simple as that.
Trans women are women and trans men are men. When marginalized groups are talked about in absolutes that’s what’s extremely problematic. Saying you could never be attracted to a trans woman but you are into all other women is transphobic because its rooted in thinking that their identity is less than a cis woman’s and vice versa for trans men with people attracted to men. It is problematic when all of your attractions are based about euro-centric cis skinny standards and environment 100% influences our attractions. I think if we are going talk about sexuality we need to realize what influences it and the prejudice that comes with it. Sexuality doesn’t exist in a bubble, your sexuality can completely be problematic.
I won’t go into as much detail because I’ve said it’s been said a ton of times, but there is a huge difference between “Oh, yeah, I see that trans person over there and I just don’t feel any attraction” and “Oh my god that is the hottest woman I’ve ever seen, she’s smart, amazing and I just want to— wait, you’re telling me she’s trans. Sorry, I’m just not attracted to trans women.”
When people say they are not attracted to trans people, they are usually imagining themselves as the first example, but the reality is that you can never be sure if someone is trans or not unless you’re told. So for every single person you’ve ever had a crush on in your entire life – did you do the ground work to figure out if they were trans or cis? Or did you just assume they were cis because you’re only attracted to cis people so of course they must be cis.
The root of what makes this behavior cissexist is that it is based on the assumption that you will always know if someone is trans, or that there is some mystical connection that will prevent attractions from forming if someone is trans, and more often than not when this statement is tested in real life experience, it’s not actually about the lack of attraction, but denial and shame about the existence of attraction.
Im literally gonna reblog this nonstop for a couple months
And if you say it’s okay for some people to not be attracted to trans people, you’re resulting to the idea that it’s okay if trans people are never loved, that this one thing of being trans that they can’t help is worthy of not being loved. That’s what you’re saying. You are literally saying trans people are not worthy of love.
THANK YOU!
First off plenty of trans people do and will find love and that’s awesome. But there is an issue here that some people want certain sexual experiences in their intimate relationships. Even post ops may not provide that feeling someone may want. A straight women may just want a man with a natural penis and not a surgically created one. That is her right. Sexual attraction is heavily rooted in biology for most people of all sexual orientations. Some can’t help wanting certain thing sexually anymore then trans people can’t help their dysphoria. I think straight men may have an issue with not dating trans women because of transphobia and homophobia. But lesbians get guilt tripped all the time about this (more then anybody). But they have already proven their willingness to have relationships outside of the norms of society by dating cis women. So I feel it is way overblown that lesbians specifically are transphobic against trans women. But they are the group most expected to keep trying really hard to cater and worry about others people’s feelings and to subvert their own wants. This isn't a healthy dynamic. People fall for all kinds of people all the time. Just let it happen naturally. Accusations of bigotry aren’t going to do any good. In fact it has created a bad backlash because people rightly feel they are allowed to enjoy certain sex acts and do not appreciate being called bigots because of it. Again there is someone for everybody and people have differing needs and wants. Just let them be.
Queer Culture is Normalizing Shaming People for their Sexuality
http://www.sapphictastic.com/?page_id=708
There’s a segment in the copy of Lesbian Connection I have all about care-giving and one woman tells the story of how when she was in her 20s her first lover was a woman in her 50s and they remained friends after they separated. So later on her former lover has a stroke and basically is incapable of caring for herself so the author of the piece and her current partner take her in and care for her until she passes and I just feel like that is an incredible story. But the author also said seeing her ex in this predicament made her think long & hard about how often there is no one to care for our elder lesbians in their time of need, and it made her consider what would happen to her partner and herself when they grew older. This also all made me think of Storme DeLarverie, whose story I read in the same issue. She was an amazing woman and a mother to all lesbians in New York. She used to carry a gun and patrol the lesbian bars to ensure no one was being nasty towards “her baby girls”, and she worked in lesbian bars into her 80s. But as she grew older she had financial difficulties, and declining mental health, which lead to housing insecurity. With no one to take her in, she ended up in a state facility for the elderly. It wasn’t until 2011 that two of her long-time friends fought the state and gained custody. This is a black woman who was so incredible, and such a force for good, without whom Stonewall may not have taken the turn that it did, who struggled more than anyone should have to near the end of her life. When she initially needed her community the most no one was there to offer her the love and support she’d spent her life providing others. Luckily she spent the last three years of her life in comfort. However that doesn’t erase the hardships she dealt with for years before. For me this raises the question: how many senior lesbians suffer in the same ways? And how many don’t have friends left to fight for them, to ensure that at least their last years are peaceful? I feel that it’s disgraceful to let our elders fade away, to end up god knows where, when they have done so much to support and uplift us. We wouldn’t be where we are today were it not for many of them, and if we don’t acknowledge that we won’t be able to move forward. To forget our elders is to forget ourselves, but it’s really not enough to just say it. There needs to be real action taken to support these women who are often, at this point, being left alone to fend for themselves.
“they/them” has been used in the singular since Chaucer and Shakespeare. criticism of it has only existed since the 19th century. punch transphobic grammarians in the face
@violentreceipts
Tbh I feel sad on coming to a realization I'm a lesbian as I'll lack a lot of emotional support. As I'm realizing dudes have never gave me that "aha he's cute" moment and I never really liked men in any sexual manner or context. Girls on the other hand I do. It just makes me sad as my family isnt going to be there in the emotional sense for me. As my dad'll think Im trying to be a man, my mum equates it to the same as pedophilia and my grandmother's worse about it than my parents.
Unfortunately, I can’t say you’re wrong. Being a lesbian is a very lonely endeavor. You will feel alienated by the very culture that surrounds you. Your family won’t understand, and they will make those wild assumptions that you describe. The average woman you meet on the day to day will not be your peer.
It’s lonely, and it’s hard, but you are who you are, and it comes to a point where pretending you’re someone else is just unbearable. Now, don’t feel pressured to come out to your family or anyone else, you have no obligation to do that. Do it on your own terms and keep yourself safe. I myself have been out to my parents for over ten years, but I’m not explicitly out to some other parts of my family because they’re very conservative Catholics and I don’t need this kind of stress in my life. So don’t feel bad for picking your battles.
My biggest advice is to form community. Connect with other lesbians whenever you can, as they’ll be your only true allies. It’s a harsh thing to say, but I’ve come to realize no one really cares about us but ourselves. The mainstream LGBT community will call us exclusionary and bigoted for rejecting males, the general public will call us sinners and perverts, and in the end they all want the same thing, which is for us to shut up and submit. Stay strong, and form support networks with other lesbians. Don’t let romantic relationships destroy your network. Stay friends with your exes, if it’s possible and healthy for you to do so. And don’t let minor political disagreements tear you away from other lesbians. We NEED community, we NEED to support each other. No one else will.
EDIT: Also, seek your elders and seek your history. Older lesbians have a lot of knowledge and experience, and they can tell you a lot about lesbian culture and how it came to be. Some of them don’t access the internet, but a lot of them do, and they’re usually more than willing to embrace young lesbians and help them integrate the community. That’s what happened to me, and it changed my life.
There are so many amazing, articulate young lesbos out there.
“Oppressed” Muslim Women
This images are so important because when people (esp. people who identify vocally as feminists) say that the veil prevents women from doing things, that it is an instrument of oppression, we make that veil an instrument of oppression. Islam does not say that veiled women cannot be pilots or doctors or teachers. Bad feminists do. Islamaphobes do.
Thank you.
I love this so much.
There may be some women in Islam that are doing good work. But if you want a reality check look at the high levels of extremism, misogyny, and homophobia when muslims themselves are polled, it’s shocking. As a a feminist you should be calling this out. Not minimizing it.
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/pew-report-on-muslim-world-paints-a-distressing-picture/
Cis Women Need to Be Able to Talk About Their Vaginas- And I’m a strong trans rights supporter.
http://www.sapphictastic.com/?p=462
Obesity Study Showing Lesbians with a Higher Obesity Rate is a No Brainer.
This study shows lesbians are %25 more likely to be overweight then straight women. But it also shows that straight men are twice as likely to be overweight as gay men. So the affect of sexual orientation on obesity is actually greater for straight men then lesbians. But lesbian hating right wing sites won't bother to mention this in their lesbian bashing headlines. The reasons for this are obvious. Straight women and gay men have to please men. Gay men are also more likely then straight men to have eating disorders. We lesbians are some of the most love and relationship addicted people around. If we thought we could not get girlfriends unless we were skinny we would all be sweating to P90X right now. Regardless, I’m for taking care of your physical health and looks but without the unhealthy obsessive mirror gazing straight women and gay men often do.
However there is a biological factor that may contribute to this that is good to be aware of. Lesbians are more likely to be affected by POCS, a condition that affects fertility and is caused by an increased level of androgens but also causes insulin resistance which can cause weight gain. It would make sense that increased androgens could affect sexual orientation. Not that this is a problem but its just good to be aware of this issues health issue.
Obesity Study Article
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/us-government-spends-3-5m-on-lesbian-obesity-study/
Gay Men and Eating Disorders
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070413160923.htm
Most of us will feel little nervous when we have our first sex experience with another bisexual woman or lesbian. My suggestion is to take a little time and just take it easy and nice. The followin...
Nice article on a ladie’s first time.
Bakers Pay Damages Because Of Revealing Lesbians’ Address not Just Refusing to Bake the Cake for Lesbian Wedding.
No one is emphasizing this. It’s an important distinction. This couple apparently were receiving death threats as a result of the bakers revealing their contact info.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/oregon-bakers-werent-fined-over-cake-they-were-punished-for-sharing-lesbian-couples-home-address/
Gay Cake Lawsuits are Dumb But Christian Bakers no More Opressed then any other Citizen
I don't think lawsuits against anti-gay bakeries are productive for the LGBT community and have helped to create the religious freedom law backlashes we have seen in places like Indiana but all citizens must serve people who offend them in some way at some point.
You want to refuse to bake a gay cake? Then you have no right to force a gay, lesbian, or atheist business owner to serve / employ people that follow religions (Islam, Mormonism, Judaism, Christianity for example) that perhaps offend their personal moral sensibilities which THEY have to under the law. Religions whose holy texts advocate for slavery, murder, and telling women how dirty they are when they have their periods anger/offend some people as much as same sex marriage offends you (and no Jesus actually didn't deny the old testament, he supported it). Religious beliefs aren't anything special. The universe does not revolve around your special religious beliefs over other peoples moral beliefs and these laws don't either. If this woman wants to deny my business great. No problem. But then the government should not be able to force me to hire her or make products for her religious ceremonies when I know she is teaching this to her children...
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
Or we can all agree to get along as I am not forcing her to participate in a gay 3 way (not my thing) and she isn't making me go to her church which I would find backward and morally suspect. Otherwise we can all go back to whites only diners if this is what we all want. Its not libertarian unless all people are allowed to exercise all their prejudices / morals. No "special rights" for the religious that others do NOT have. But I still think these lawsuits are are horrible idea and actually hurt our cause.
UPDATE: See details of what the bakers were actually sued for. It’s not just not baking the cake.
Are Lesbian Relationships the Most Unstable?
I’m starting this blog to have a discussion about healthy lesbian relationships as we have now achieved marriage equality in the United States where I live. Some data coming out of Europe and elsewhere has shown a very high rate of breakups (higher then heteros or gay men even) between female/female couples in civil union and domestic partnership type arrangements. I feel it is important for us as a community to have a discussion about the possible high rates of break ups and therefore drama that happen in same sex relationships between women. Only time will tell how lesbian divorce rates will play out now that marriage is legal in the United Sates where I am from.
The reasons why I think break up rates are high for female/female couples...
1) Lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals that choose same sex long term partners, have been operating outside of the norms of family structure for eternity and have no role models or adults to guide them about the differences and nuances of same sex relationships and how they may be similar but also different from hetero relationships. We haven't had any societal support for our relationships until very recently.
2) Women jump into moving in together after starting a new relationship quickly before giving it time to see if they are compatible i.e. the stereotypical “Uhauling.”
3) Studies on civil unions and domestic partner arrangements aren't the same as studies on actual legalized full marriage equality and those unions are not likely to be as stable.
4) Women are shown to initiate about 2/3 of heterosexual divorces (and women cheat almost as much as men so no this isn't the reason). It’s possible women are pickier and harder to please in relationships then men (sounds like a stereotype but I refer to the divorce stats to support this). F/F relationships would be more likely dissolved based on this fact alone.
5) Reasons why I think lesbian breakup rates are shown to be higher then gay men’s- a) the moving in too quickly situations, b) stats on legal unions seem to show more lesbians entering these unions in the first place so gay men’s relationships aren't more stable in general, they are just more restrained in making commitments to move in together and form legal arrangements (a good thing in my opinion).
6) Women aren’t as aggressive about initiating sex in relationships which may make continuing a sexual bond more difficult and may make moving on to a more exciting new relationship more appealing (just a theory, I don't have proof).
I will post more later siting references about high rates of lesbian breakups soon but I just wanted to get these initial thoughts out there for now.
If anyone else is as concerned about this issue as I am or has any suggestions about what to do about it please contact me. I plan to put out a lot of info on this topic on multiple forums to hopefully create more self awareness among young lesbian and bisexual women so we can have healthier relationships in the queer community.