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@thorthecat-andco
Unless you’re in a country other than the US, Mexico, Canada, Japan, or Russia
Update: you may now be immune to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act if you’re a company that has accidentally killed birds under a new trump rollback as he’s about to leave office, and I’m pissed about it.
Last time I filmed this big jar I just had the baby leeches in there for temporary holding but I decided to make it permanent for them with nice substrate, plants and plant lighting
Framing conversations about police dogs around the fact that the dogs are abused will work for some people, specifically the bleeding hearts of the animal world who care more about animals than they do people, but a lot of people are going to fall back on anecdotal evidence. Their uncle is a cop and he treats his dog wonderfully. Their friends are K9 trainers and the dogs are treated wonderfully. Every dog from the local police station has a home when they retire. Any statistics you bring them outside of this won’t matter to them.
Aside from which, I think it’s disingenuous to frame this as a conversation of animal abuse when first and foremost it needs to be a conversation about state sanctioned violence. If you’re not okay with cops shooting people, or going up to them and repeatedly stabbing them, then you shouldn’t be okay with a dog ripping into someone. Do you understand the physical and mental trauma of being attacked by a dog? Do you understand the damage this does to a person? Do you know the history of dogs being used against people of color, particularly black people?
Like you do understand the very basic concept of racism and how cops violently uphold these racist systems? Right? Like where in the conversation are we losing people? Police dogs are a weapon. If you want to call them a working dog, fine, but understand what that work is. And this includes drug sniffing dogs. It doesn’t matter if dogs aren’t racist when the person commanding the dog is, when the system these dogs work for is. And I shouldn’t need to provide links because at this point in the conversation, you should already be asking and researching these questions on your own. Look at what is happening in America right now. Like, come on.
You ever see a youtube video by someone who sees to know a lot more about fishkeeping than you but seems to be keeping a fish in a too-small unfiltered tank and too-small group but you don’t know much about the species even though what you read online says that that species needs at minimum 15 gallons and should prob be kept in a small group but the fish is in a five gallon with no filtration and by itself but you’re still not sure if you’re just barking at nothing because they seem to know what they’re doing
this is what it feels like to talk with outdoor cats owners
I genuinely don’t understand how outdoor cat owners can sleep at night if they’re aware of the dangers of cats being allowed to free roam and yet choose to allow their cats to do so anyway.
Talking to Outdoor Cat People
@voidofstars136 said: Hello, I volunteer at a wildlife hospital (in Australia). We get a great deal of cat-attack victims coming in, and I was hoping you knew of any particular methods to get people to keep their cats inside. I have an indoor-only cat, and I’ve successful managed to get an indoor-outdoor cat into a indoor-only before, but I cannot seem to convince anyone to do the same. Question Tax: What is your favourite parrot species?
Ah, that old chestnut.
In all my years of blogging, Outdoor Cat People, those that make excuses to justify letting their cat free roam outside (and bad excuses at that, apparently there are no cars, lilies, hazardous weather, dogs, wild predators, asshole humans, rat poison, etc where they live and Indoor cats are ‘an American thing’ despite my feet being firmly in Australia) have been some of the most obnoxious individuals to deal with online.
They are marginally more rewarding to deal with in person, if only because they maintain their manners and decide to be polite to your face and ignore you later.
The problem is, you can have a million excellent reasons to keep cats indoor only, but Outdoor Cat People will not care. They believe they are entitled to let their cat roam outdoors unsupervised (and many will have difficulty comprehending that sentence. Roaming outdoors unsupervised does not include supervised on a harness or confined to a cat run). They believe either that their cat is so special nothing bad will ever happen, or that it’s just ‘part of life’ and they couldn’t possibly have prevented this.
If they don’t care enough about their cats welfare to keep it inside, they aren’t going to care about the wildlife that they probably don’t believe their cat is hunting anyway.
If you just walk up to them and go ‘you should keep your cat inside’ you will be met with dismissal at best, and hostility at worse.
There is a window of opportunity when they can actually see a consequence of their cat being outside. At the moment our clinic waiting room is plastered with ‘Missing Cat’ posters, and that opens up a conversation with some people about keeping their beloved cats indoors, lest they go missing too.
I have this conversation after every cat fight, every wound, every injured wildlife found in a backyard and maybe 20% of them consider changing their cat’s lifestyle. Some of them will even stick with it.
There is more room to influence first time cat owners, those with new kittens. If they start out indoor only, they are more likely to stay that way.
I don’t have a magic method to talk people into doing the right thing, because letting their cats outside is convenient and easy for them, and they wont see the consequences until the last day.
My favorite parrot is a hard one. Right now it’s probably the cockatiel, for fitting so much b*stard in such a small body.
You’re from fucking Australia. Everything can kill you in Australia. It is not a fair comparison to any other country where there aren’t killer chickens.
I’m not entitled to let my cat outside. My cat is entitled to be let outside. It’s an animal and it is in its nature to go outside and run and hunt.
With your logic, the “I can prevent this by never letting my cat go outside alone”, humans shouldn’t leave the house either. Cats know as well as humans to move out of the way of cars and not attack huge animals. Humans get hit by cars too, you know, so I guess we should stay inside too.
Some countries don’t have natural predators like coyotes that can harm outdoor cats. In some countries and regions, I would argue they are quite outdoor-cat-friendly, actually. And SOME CATS don’t like being fucking inside. I know cats that get lethargic, get depressed, get unhappy no matter how many cat trees or toys or whatever else you have inside. Who am I to coop my cat up inside all day?
Jumping on the point made above me, dogs get hit by cars too. So do people. It’s a tragedy when it happens, and it’s NOT a discussion of “wow that horrible owner could have prevented this by keeping their cat inside forever,” but rather a discussion of “why did this car not see my cat on the road.”
Me: is asked a question about convincing people to keep their cats indoors to protect wildlife.
States Outdoor Cat People will ignore the list of other hazards to justify letting their cat roam outside (cars, lilies, hazardous weather, dogs, asshole humans, rat poison, etc)
States Outdoor Cat People have trouble understanding the concept of ‘outdoors unsupervised’ and ignore the idea of supervised outside time, on a harness, in a cat run etc.
Outdoor Cat People: demonstrate exactly those points.
And also make an additional fallacy I had forgotten, in his case comparing the wisdom of a cat to an adult human instead of a small child, who also should not roam the neighbourhood unsupervised.
Unless you’re in a country other than the US, Mexico, Canada, Japan, or Russia
the most effective means of preventing dog homelessness are 1) providing material support to impoverished and marginalized pet owners and 2) preventing and addressing behavioral issues before they become cause for relinquishment
but that’s far less fun and takes way more effort and human compassion than self-righteously chirping “adopt don’t shop!”
Yep
Something that ties into #2 that would go a long way: a culture of education around getting the right dog for your situation, about training and enrichment, and about breed traits, rather than “dog people” treating them as some weird ego thing
Animal Welfare Advocate: We understand accidents can always happen, but we believe in risk reduction. Step should be taken to minimize the risk of your pet being harmed, and ensure you can promptly get them veterinary attention if they are hurt.
Asshole on Tumblr: So you’re saying I should keep my pets in a bubble, hm??? Is that what you’re saying??? Answer me. That’s definitely what you’re saying. I guess I’ll bubble my dog. I guess I’ll bubble my child. I guess I’ll bubble my goldfish. These things are all the same and I am Very Smart.
Who deserves happiness and love?
Kiwi says you do!
gentle boy eats a cheeto
I dont think having outdoor cats is neglect. I have 5 cats, and 2 go outside. The inside/outside ones get just as much vet visits and tx as the indoor ones. Just because some cats are outdoor cats doesnt mean theyre neglected??
Except it is, because your cat is being exposed to cars, predators, diseases not prevented by vaccines, parasites, toxins, and extreme weather. And for what? Enrichment that can be safely provided with a harness or a catio? Do you also let your dogs free roam? How about birds? I’m sure they would have a great time, so why not just let them out and to run around? Because they’re exposed to significant dangers, as are cats. Plus, outdoor cats are horrible for the environment. Cats are on the IUCN’s top 100 worst invasive species list. They decimate native small mammal and bird populations and spread disease. Outdoor cats live shorter lives than strictly indoor cats and often die traumatic deaths (usually hit by car). When they come into the ER it’s for unknown trauma/bite wound/missing for x days and is now sick. And the owners can’t tell us anything, because they have no idea where their cat was or what they were doing. How is releasing a domestic animal outside without any supervision not neglectful?? Letting cats free roam is irresponsible. Period.
If you think you’re a responsible pet owner and let your cats free roam outside, please take a moment to learn why that’s horrendous or just unfollow me. I’m pretty sick of seeing entirely preventable problems like this on ICU.
This is a misconception based on several different things. Foremost among them is the idea that all cats owners live in urban environments, and secondly that people don’t acclimate their cats to the outdoor environment into which they are released. I don’t have experience owning outdoor cats in urban areas, and probably will not allow my cats outdoors now that I live in one, however I have owned outdoor cats in rural areas for more than a decade. Yes, these cats have gotten into fights and been injured, gotten sick, and disappeared for multiple days at a time. However, I know the outdoor areas they frequent, I know what predators exist in the area, and I have a vet who is also familiar with both of these factors. I keep outdoor dogs on the same land that control the predator population, keeping them well off of our property. Any injuries are quickly diagnosed and treated either by a member of the family, or a vet if it is a more “involved” fix. I have only experienced two pet fatalities in this environment with these precautions in place. One was a certain death that was determined to be from a snake bite after examining the body. This is extremely unlikely as domesticated cats tend to avoid snakes instinctively unless with a pack. The second death occurred when a coyote (notoriously clever predators) managed to make a home on the land that the dogs couldn’t find. After the cats disappearance the den was found and the coyote was humanely chased away.
There is a reason the vet asks if your cat is an indoor/outdoor animal. I’m by no means an educated expert, but I have first hand experience and I listen to my local vet. Chucking your middle aged cat out into the street with no supervision? Unsafe and neglectful. Slowly weening young cats into their outdoor environment with observation and a controlled location, supplemented with the advice of a local vet or wildlife expert? Perfectly acceptable.
Oh and don’t de-claw outdoor cats. They will die and they will die fast.
How can you seriously say that “oh some of them just got sick or disappeared for a while or died but yeah it’s totally acceptable”? Do you not understand that regardless of whether or not you seek out vet care for these injuries, they are totally preventable? You are putting your animals in a position where they are getting sick, injured, or by your own admission, straight up dying. It’s great you are seeking veterinary care, but they are still feeling pain from their injuries. Their lives are still being put at risk. And being “fixed” by family members??? Are you serious?? Are any of you qualified veterinarians able to make a diagnosis to determine that the injury isn’t more “involved”, as you say? And do you think your veterinarian enjoys having to repeatedly treat your cats, only to find that you are making no changes to prevent the injury/illness from happening again?
This has nothing to do with urban vs rural. Your dogs are faster than a hawk? More clever than a fox? You’ve already admitted that a coyote was able to get onto your land. And seriously, again, you’re actually going to sit there and say that it’s no big deal that two of your cats died painful deaths? Deaths that were 100% preventable by keeping them inside, by the way. And that little tid bit about cats avoiding snakes is absolutely not true. I have no idea what you mean by cats traveling in “packs” are but that’s not how feral cats behave. Feral cats do form colonies, but they don’t prowl around together cooperatively hunting prey like a pride of lions (and they’d still be at risk of a snake bite regardless). Cats definitely do not avoid snakes. They see something moving in the grass, and they pounce. They don’t have the capacity to stop and think about what it is, or if it might be dangerous. And cats don’t confine themselves to property, either. Your dogs (which have their own risks from being free roamed) might protect your property, but cats have been tracked multiple kilometers from their home, even when their owners claimed they “just went around the block”. You have no way of knowing where your cats are going or what they are exposed to.
What about parasites? Most parasite control is 99% effective. Even if your cats are up to date, the level of exposure is often overwhelming for traditional parasite prevention. What about disease? Are your cats up to date on rabies vaccines? What about tularemia? That’s a bioterrorism risk and we don’t have a vaccine for that. FeLV? FIV?
This is exactly the kind of neglect we’re talking about when we refer to outdoor cats. You have admitted that your cats are injured and killed, and yet are not choosing to stop letting them outside. That is incredibly upsetting. Also, no wildlife expert with an actual education would ever support letting cats free roam! Once again, they are on the IUCN’s top 100 worst invasive species list. Cats kill millions of native wild animals every year. They kill more than they need to eat, and their saliva has gram negative bacteria that is deadly to small mammals, birds, and reptiles, so even if they get away they will probably die anyway. Cats are responsible for extinctions world wide. Letting your cats free roam irresponsible and bad for the environment.
This post, in which some random person with no veterinary training thinks they can correct two vet students about an animal health issue, is such a good microcosm of the outdoor cat debate in general.
Since I see some of you morons talking about how your local area is totally safe for your cat to roam around unsupervised, here’s a quick list of things outside that can injure, sicken or kill your cat.
- Predatory animals, from weasels, foxes and coyotes all the way up to mountain lions, alligators, bears and wolves. Even neighbourhood dogs may take a chunk out of any cat they can catch.
- Birds, and not even just birds of prey. Corvids, owls, herons and even large gulls can easily kill an adult cat.
- Venomous animals. These are particularly high risk, as cats like to play so much with the animals they catch. It’s not just snakes and scorpions, many spiders that are harmless to humans have bites that can be fatal to cats. There are also plenty of stinging insects that will absolutely kill your cat if they’re unlucky enough to be allergic to the venom.
- Poison. Not just antifreeze from cars, but poisonous animals such as toads, poison put down to kill pests that the cat may eat, and field sprays that the cat then licks off their coat are all equally dangerous.
- CARS. The leading cause of death for cats in the UK is currently road traffic accidents. No, they’re not “streetwise” if they don’t get hit - they just got lucky. All it takes is one time when they don’t and poor old kitty becomes pate for the scavengers.
- Pretty much anything you could find on a farm. Horses, cows, sheep, pigs, goats and even geese and chickens can and will kill a cat if they don’t like it being there. Farmers are also allowed to shoot cats on their property in most countries, and no one will bat an eye if a farm dog kills and eats your pet.
- Deer, moose and elk. The kick of the red deer can shatter a wolf’s skull into pieces. It’s not going to take a very big deer to do the same to your cat.
- Boar. These are not just your regular bacon making hogs. They’ll happily make a meal out of a wandering cat.
- Parasites and disease. Ticks and fleas are one thing, but fungi, bacterial infections and viruses can all be picked up easily from other cats or infected animals, eating from an infected carcass, or drinking contaminated water.
- PEOPLE. Not everyone is as nice as you and me, some people are assholes who like to see animals suffer. A friendly kitty is a very convenient target for someone who wants an animal to abuse. Unlike other animals, human have a great capacity for cruelty against the helpless, and very imaginative ways of making your curious, loving cat suffer.
Uptight rescues be like:
We have no idea why Fido hasn’t been adopted! His adoption fee is only $500 and we will reject you if you have an intact dog, don’t have a fence, rent, don’t have a certain amount of experience, have ever bought a dog from a breeder, participate in dog sports, use a tether, are a student, don’t have air conditioning, have ever shown a dog, work full days, have ever euthanized a dog, don’t feed a certain diet, or have any relatives that might possibly be allergic to dogs. We just don’t understand why no one will adopt him!
4 or 5 years back we went to go adopt a cat and we found a nice little rescue not too far away. i found the sweetest, friendliest, older cat and i begged my mom to let me adopt her. we got all the papers in order and were then denied because we checked the box indicating that we might let her outside sometimes. we ended up getting a couple of younger cats (who we let outside) instead. i’m still mad about it.
Rescue: Hey you’re not allowed to get a cat just to let it outside to destroy the environment, die of disease, get killed by another animal, or spend hours on the side of the road dying a slow and awful death
You, a certified clown: Wow :/ can’t believe how uptight they are :/ can’t believe these people don’t want me to endanger the life of this elderly cat :/ guess I’ll just get some kittens I can let outside instead lol :/
Because this is surprisingly still floating around, I feel the need to clarify something: things like free roaming cats and declawing are nowhere on the list of ridiculous requirements. Those are very reasonable, and should honestly be at the top of the list for any rescue or breeder for reasons to deny an applicant. This post is not a justification for outdoor cats or declawing. Both are harmful to the animal, and free roaming cats are also harmful to the environment.
