Trying to social distance myself out of existence | I got like... not nearly enough sleep | trying to supersede my personality and all my problems with reading | I promise that I'm so normal about Percy Jackson and Obi-Wan Kenobi | my toxic trait is that I think that all my fandom opinions are correct
This is and will always be a pro jedi blog get out of here if you can't understand the culture and nuances of the order also fuck you forever Anakin Skywalker
george lucas, remarkably unsubtley, over and over again: the fall of the republic was because of corporate interests interfering with politics and increased complacency with fascist ideas in the face of a manufactured war
everyone, for some reason: so the jedi were the REAL villains because they didn’t get married
My favourite running gag in Star Wars is Darth Maul being absolutely obsessed with getting revenge on Obi Wan over something he started. Obi Wan did absolutely nothing to him except defend himself. Maul killed someone Obi Wan loved and then tried to kill him as well and now I guess he’s mad that Obi Wan didn’t let him murder him??? So dramatic and for what
HONDOS WIKI PAGE LISTS HIS FRIENDS/ALLIES AND ENEMIES
THE LISTS ARE RIDICULOUSLY LONG AND DISREGARDING THE HILARITY OF THE CLINICAL WAY THEY DESCRIBE HIM, THE LISTS ARE THE BEST PART OF THIS
Enemies:
*very long list of people including each and every one of the kids he kidnapped in that one episode with Ahsoka, R2-D2, and the triumvirate (Obi Ani and Soka)* but Obi, Ani and Soka are all listed as “formerly”. FORMERLY enemies. Which implies he’s friends with them all now. So you go over to the friends list and-
FRIENDS/ALLIES:
*really long list including people like Kanan, Ezra: Aurra Sing, Jango Fett, fuckin’ PLO KOON*
And then you get to the triumvirate.
Top on the list is Obi. Then Ahsoka. And then
“Anakin Skywalker. (Formerly)”
And it cant be because Anakin is dead, because there are plenty of other dead characters on here that don’t say formerly. Also formerly is Cody. Which implies it was like—
Obi: *on mustafar* can I perhaps beg a ride of you?
Hondo: *drunk comming* a ride? Hell, I owe ya a whole ship at this point. Why d’ya need a ride, Jedi?
Obi: the clones have commited treason and my former apprentice has tried to kill me
Hondo:
Obi: also I have a youngling I’ll need rations for.
Hondo:
Hondo: *turns to first mate* you. You right there.
First mate: ?
Hondo: blacklist Skywalker. And all th’ clones. Particularly Kenobi’s commander.
Obi:
First mate: affirmative
Hondo: okay we’re on our way. Ya better not be dead when I get there, I don’t like owin’ debts t’ dead people
Okay, as much as I love Rocky extending Grace's life without telling him, consider: Rocky *does* tell Grace, Grace just then somehow manages to like. Horrendously misinterpret what the treatment is actually for. Like.
Eridian Doctor: We went through the human genome and found a bunch of places with old broken DNA repair mechanisms so we came up with a gene editing therapy that fixes them in order to extend your lifespan.
Grace: *flashbacks to when Rocky found out that humans can experience long term effects from lower doses of radiation exposure and Grace wasn't being as careful as he should have been back when they first met because he still thought this was gonna be a suicide mission*
Grace (internally): Oh, so cancer prevention! Got it!
Okay, but if bby!Obi-Wan was an old Victorian baby brought into the modern time, he'd need to be in a little bubble. Either Force made or one of those hermetic ones to get him slowly used to all the new things and to filter out what he's got.
Just a little baby in a bubble floating and bouncing along, not a care in the world.
Poor wittle guy wants a hug and to put all the new shiny things he shouldn’t in his mouth for the first time in a millennium or 3
Oh now? I kinda want to see an off shoot of Obi-Wan's Slow Breakdown On The Holotube Au? Cause like?? Do these fuckers (every one NOT in the Fancy Tooka loving community) have ANY IDEA(!!!!?!?!?!?) how many LITERAL CENTURIES The Community™ has been trying to get close enough to observe these Beautiful Creatures (of death) without getting mauled!?
They know the risks! But noooooo! The jedi are all "we can't in good conscious let you deliberately get your self mauled, just to observe our jackass(affectionate but exasperated) tookas". Those damn gatekeepers! Well they can't stop us now! *semi-hysterical and unhinged laugh* one of their jedi baby's PUT THIS SHIT ON THE NET! *brandishing their holopad like a weapon*
Like? What a way to find out your Mandalorian co-worker is obsessed with Fancy Show Tookas. Holy shit. J'Eff.... J'Eff, you good, man? Someone get Jaster. I think J'Eff is having a break down. We need to talk him down. (Or tackle him.)
And like? What? Is this cognito-hazard of a video? Why just a Jetii'ad trying to corral indulgent Temple Tooka wearing space carboard Mando'ade armor into acting out what he'd seen. But they keep falling a sleep or wandering off, so he keeps breaking mid explanation to call after them. Cause they CAN understand him, and he CAN understand THEM, so hes ALSO having full on conversations with THEM (they are commentating) but we're only hearing half of THOSE, and-!
It's very chaotic and ill thought out. Exactly like a child's idea would be. Very rambling.
One of the cats yawns atthe camera and- Holy SHIT that's a lot of teeth! Wait, what was that about jaster? Did the cat just suggest he EAT Montross?! Ow! J'Eff! Stop biting! Fine we'll give you back the damn pad!
Templetooka is trying its very best to act. Obi-wan is about to faceplant into it’s fur and cry his little heart out and these fuckers are debating if it’s better to watch for the cat or the plot AND HES LITERALLY ACTING OUT THE DEATH OF YOUR LEADER GUYS PAY ATTENTION
One of the things I actually really like about the Fall of Anakin Skywalker was how it showed the true horror of a popular romance trope.
Over the years, in numerous books and countless fanfics, we've all seen some variation or another of the infamous "I'd burn the world down for you." And fans always swoon over this line because it's framed as this noble or romantic gesture where the character puts their love over everything else.
What I particularly loved about the prequels was that it showed what happened when the character, in this case, Anakin, actually did burn the world down "for Padmé" and we saw how terrifying and horrendous such a thing actually is.
I am pretty sure the expulsion to face her potential execution for the Temple bombing she didn't do and having to go on the lamb to clear her name with only Anakin and Padme trying anything to save her might have a bit to play with Ahsoka being disillusioned with the Order in the end.
And the non apology and bribe of knighthood when the truth came out because the teenager turned political scapegoat has rational doubts after facing her own death because the Jedi Order would sacrifice a child they raised in a heart beat.
It isn't like they sold off Anakin the minute it bought them brownie points when Palpatine first tool office.
See, the Jedi Council did try to clear Ahsoka's name and to get her out of prision, it's just that Ahsoka broke out, following what she tought to be Anakin's plan for a while, before realizing the person helping her was an unknown and still following their plan, and then teamed up with Ventress. What is important about that arc is that Anakin's teachings have removed Ahsoka so far from the Jedi mindset, that she doesn't have the patience to wait until the council finds a solution, or the clear-headedness to recognize that the escape makes her seem more suspicious.
For all intents and purposes, Ahsoka looks guilty. It does not matter what the Jedi believe about her character. They've been wrong about things like that before (Pong Krell, Anakin...). And it turns out to have been a Padawan, just a Padawan who was not Ahsoka. Barriss being the bomber would've just seemed as unlikely as Ahsoka. To add to that, the Jedi can't just skip a trial. Non-Jedi Republic citizens died, it's no longer just a Jedi matter. What do you want them to do? Lock her up in the temple for safe-keeping (putting all the other Jedi in the temple at risk) so that the Republic can't arrest her?
And the Jedi did not sell off Anakin? I am genuinely confused what you're talking about.
The Jedi Order took a teenager, one they had a duty and responsibility towards, and tossed her the wolves because protecting her or just taking a moral stance at all might damage their political standing with the Senate.
They didn't care about Ahsoka, a child that the Council personally knew, taught, and turned into a weapon of war before she was a legal adult.
They left her out to face her potential death alone and /Ahsoka/ is to blame for not trusting the system that set her up to die?
I really don't understand the definition of 'family' where the organization that leaves a child to be potentially executed and still thinks they can claim the high moral ground.
If one of your children is so radicalized and desperate that they want to bomb their own home in order to protest a war that they were forced to fight maybe, maybe some internal self reflection is appropriate.
Maybe you should consider, that all the Jedi were drafted. They had no choice. I also literally didn't say anything about their standing with the Senate. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHOICE THEN TO PUT HER THROUGH A TRIAL. Unless they want to start a civil war with the republic, they can't do anything other then to try and prove her innocence in court. The system is turned against all Jedi. If any of the Councillors were put in Ahsoka's situation, they would stay in their cell and believe that their fellows will find a way to get them out.
I also don't know why you're so convinced that Ahsoka would get executed. We see Barriss in prision. She survives past order 66.
They don't try to claim the high ground. They don't have another choice. You yourself explained why Ahsoka and the Jedi are a family. They raised and taught her. They took her in and sheltered her until they were forced to send her to war.
Are you trying to justify the temple bombing? The Jedi know that the war is having a bad effect on their members, they just can't do anything about it. Jedi are dying by the dozen, but they can't leave. They tried to do their duty and walked straight into a sith trap. They have no where else to go. If they just retreat from the front, inncocent people would die and none of the republic military officers would try to work with the clones. They would have to abandon the republic in a war they know to be run by Sith, because they would have to flee Coruscant after being branded as traitors.
I ask you again, because you didn't answer the question before: What would you have them do?
You do understand that 'just following orders' is not even an excuse that Stormtroopers can use to avoid accountability let alone the elite warrior monks that claim a monopoly on the Force?
Drafts can be dodged.
Principal stances can be made.
Maybe even debate the nature of going to war for a corrupt government that can't even defend itself without chattel slavery?
Or just protect the actual /child/ given over to your care and provide for them even if makes unpopular political waves?
It's not about "just following orders" i don't know where you got that from, as I didn't mention that phrase once. And what accountability do you want them to take? Trying to work within the law to find evidence for Ahsoka's innocence, even though she looks guilty from all angles?
Drafts can be dodged, but not by an entire religious organization that is largely in the public eye and employed exclusively in the high ranks. Especially not if innocent people would die. Inncocent people that they could save, using their magic powers. Especially not if their entire philospohy and identity as people is based on helping people and tied deeply to the republic. Jedi want to help people. They don't want anyone to die, if they can help it.
The Jedi can't leave. The entire war is a trap by the Sith that's been a Millennium in the making. There is no way for all of them to just escape.
The Jedi can't exist without public approval. That's not about politics, but about survival. They need the public to like them so that they can help the most people. All of their members were born and taken in. They don't make money. They most likely need the republic to get supplies. 'Unpopular political waves' is a cute expression, because it makes it sound like that's not hugely important for the continued existance of any group of people. As if the Jedi, being the biggest group of force-users that most people know about, aren't seen as representatives of Force sensitives in general.
You can't protect a child if you don't have the means to. You can't protect it if you're being hunted. You can't protect anyone if your entire people (even ones not in ypur group) get prosecuted for being traitors.
Once again, the Jedi can't leave. Once again, Ahsoka has all the evidence stacked against her.
And what accountability do you want them to take? Trying to work within the law to find evidence for Ahsoka's innocence, even though she looks guilty from all angles?
What did I just read? No seriously... you typed a sentence describing basic due process of law as if it was some kind of absurd notion that should be discarded.
Yes---- they should've investigated and found evidence because that is what justice and morality requires! You investigate so that the wrong person doesn't get punished and the real perpetrator doesn't get away with doing bad things. Why is this hard?
"But she looked guilty!" isn't an argument, its an excuse. Its an excuse for people in power to shirk their responsibilities and not do their jobs. Its the kind of excuse a corrupt police officer or politician might make for a gross miscarriage of justice because actually doing the right thing and finding the real perpetrator was just too hard.
They need the public to like them so that they can help the most people.
Okay. Wrongly convicting and prosecuting somebody for a crime they didn't commit doesn't actually make people like you. In fact, it tends to have the opposite effect.
If the Jedi wanted people to trust them, they should've done a proper investigation. Failing to do so made them look incompetent and corrupt. You can't be the "guardians of justice" when you very publicly allowed a gross injustice to happen to one of your own people because it was politically convenient.
Everything that went down with Ahsoka made the Jedi look bad. People are not going to trust an institution that can't even do right by its own members.
What would happen next time the Jedi came along to "protect people"? They would be "you're the guys who wrongly executed an innocent teenager and allowed the real bomber to escape, and now you claim we need you to stop the innocent dying?"
See how the Jedi now have zero credibility?
There is no choice. The Jedi are trapped
There is absolutely a choice: the Jedi could have investigated. Even if it was hard, even if there was political pushback - because doing the right thing is what wins you friends in the end. People see it, that's what makes them like you and rally to your cause.
Doing what is easy or politically expedient doesn't. It just makes you complicit in all the bad shit that is happening.
People didn't turn on the Jedi because they were stupid or manipulated: they turned on the Jedi because the Jedi had become corrupt. So corrupt that they mistook political convenience for morality. So corrupt, they allowed evil to continue because challenging it might cause them difficulties in the Senate.
People saw that. That's why they didn't like the Jedi. Its also why Ahsoka didn't trust the Jedi.
Anakin didn't make her distrust the Jedi: they did that themselves. Nobody is going to trust an institution which abandoned them twice and them subjected them to wrongful arrest and imprisonment.
They are working within the law. They're trying to gather evidence, but then Ahsoka escapes and it's simply so much harder now. All the evidence that has been found so far (Ahsoka seemingly chocking a woman to death on video, breaking out and seemingly injuring and killing a lot of Coruscant Guard troopers and later being seen with known enemy of the republic Asajj Ventress). She looks fucking guilty because all the evidence is against her. Had she gone back into her cell and not picked up her lightsabers when she saw the troopers on the ground, it would've been pretty obvious that she wasn't the person responsible.
All the evidence suggest Ahsoka is guilty. Everyone thinks she is guilty. The non-Jedi that were working at the temple and got affected by the bomb and all of Coruscant thinks Ahsoka Tano is guilty. Not complying with the Republic's Justice system would've looked like the Jedi were letting someone get away with murder, just because they are a member of the order. They would've needed to have evidence to prove her innocence, which they did not have.
Ahsoka gets arrested. The Jedi are being forbidden from seeing Ahsoka (Anakin gets escourted out by Corries with activated weapons). Everything about Ahsoka's trial is under Tarkin's control, which is stated in the episode. Then she escapes while Anakin is trying to visit her. All of this happens in the same episode on a very very fast timeline. It's dark out when Ahsoka gets imprisoned and it's still dark out when she escapes. That is not a lot of time to gather evidence when Anakin seemingly also just learned that she's being held captive and arrives while she escapes.
The next thing we see of the Council has Tarkin (the guy the republic put in charge of the investigation) telling them that "after further investigation there can be little doubt that the clones officers murdered in the escape were killed by none other then Ahsoka Tano herself". All evidence suggests that Ahsoka did it. The council is shown to not be happy about it, but they officially agree that Ahsoka probably killed that woman and the troopers, because that's waht the evidence says. They are not investigating because they've already sent a council member and Anakin out to capture the presumed terrorist threat, that is hanging out with Sith Apprentice and Seperatist General Asajj Ventress the next time they lay eyes on her.
Throughout Star Wars all we see the Jedi try to do is help. To the point that the Jedi's desire to help and rescue people, their morality, their compassion, is stated to be the weakness you have to exploit if you want to kill them. Lukas descripted them as intergalactic therapists. But they are 10000 and over 2 trillion people live on Coruscant alone. They are spread thin and fighting a war they have slowly been manipulated into over the course of a 1000 year long plan by people that want them dead. It's a pretty big plot point in rots that the Jedi don't trust Palpatine and that they can't even stop him from forcing Anakin onto the council. The public during the Clone wars sees the Jedi as War General that just can't seem to end the war, some seem to really like and trust them, others don't. The rebellion likes the Jedi so much they use their "may the force be with you" phrase.
Um yeah- so what you're describing there isn't due process.
Had she gone back into her cell and not picked up her lightsabers when she saw the troopers on the ground, it would've been pretty obvious that she wasn't the person responsible.
That's a bad as saying a person is guilty if they run and we should convict people on that basis alone.
Even "terrorists" are entitled to legal representation and a trial by jury. Heck if the Jedi convicted everyone who hung out with terrorists Obi Wan should've been in prison several times over because of his little escapade with the Death Watch.
What was done to Ahsoka wasn't in the remit of any justice system anywhere. Period. Tarkin never presented any evidence; he just claimed he'd seen it. Tarkin is also a military general: Ahsoka isn't a member of the GAR. Neither are the Clones. Tarkin shouldn't have any jurisdiction over this case.
You don't try a minor who isn't a member of the armed forces in a military court without any kind of representation. You also failed to mention: the Jedi had to formally expel Ahsoka for her to be put on trial in the first place.
They didn't question anything. They didn't ask why this highly irregular procedure was going on, they didn't ask why due process wasn't being observed. They're just "nope this will make us look bad, so bye I guess!"
(And you wonder why she didn't trust those guys?)
Throughout Star Wars all we see the Jedi try to do is help. To the point that the Jedi's desire to help and rescue people, their morality, their compassion
If "helping people" requires you to participate in slavery and use child soldiers, you probably need to rethink your priorities.
Lukas descripted them as intergalactic therapists.
Yeah, I've read that interview several times and this quote is taken out of context. It was actually a joke, and Lucas described them as "negotiating at the point of a lightsaber". Which means forcing people to comply with a threat of violence if necessary.
It's a pretty big plot point in rots that the Jedi don't trust Palpatine and that they can't even stop him from forcing Anakin onto the council.
Its also a major plot point that they trusted Palpatine enough to let hm have unsupervised access to Anakin for over a decade. That's either complacency or child neglect- take your pick.
The rebellion likes the Jedi so much they use their "may the force be with you" phrase.
Yes, that's because institutions which no longer exist tend to get mythologised and made out to be better than they really were. None of the members of the Rebellion were actually alive when the old Republic were around, or their view wouldn't be so positive.
Also "May the Force be WIth You" is basically the equivalent of saying "God bless you" - its not specifically a Jedi phrase. Just something people say. A greeting.
Anyway, what does any of this have to do with why Ahsoka doesn't trust the Jedi?
Wasn't your original post that big bad evil Anakin made Ahsoka distrust the Jedi who did her no harm ever? Instead of the canon reality that they:
Left her for dead in a warzone
Left her for dead on a training exercise
Expelled her from the order, allowed her to be tried in a Military Court
Anybody would lose trust an institution which treated them like that- and that's definitely not how a "family" acts.
It doesn't mean she's guilty, but it does make her look it, especially since it lead to her working with Ventress and being found with explosive nanobots. Staying and not doing anything would've shown that there's more going on.
She did have a trial. That's the point. Padmé represented her. They were overwhelmed, because Tarkin had a video in which Ahsoka seemingly strangles someone with the force. He had multiple witnessess to her escape (which didn't only leave the injured troopers in the halway), her working with Ventress and her in a warehouse with the bots. There's multiple people that were injured in her escape. There's video evidence of that, too, because they had surveillance drones.
Tarkin is in charge, because Palpatine wants him to be in charge. Ahsoka is a Commander of the GAR - Tarkin shouldn't be in charge of her because he's an Admiral of the Navy, but Palpatine stands over the Navy and the GAR and the Senate because of his emergency powers, and can thus do what he wants. If he wants Tarkin in charge of the entire affair, then he will be. The Clones are the GAR, but they are still shown obeying the Admirals.
She didn't need to be expelled to be held captive. And the Tarkin made it pretty clear, that the Jedi had to expell her (with vegue threats about not doing so being seen as defying the Senate).
They didn't need to question it, because it's pretty obvious. Weird shit is going on because the Temple was bombed and multiple republic citizens and Guard Troopers died - it's not just a Jedi matter and because the Temple is a big public thing, the entire affair is a big public thing. And Star Wars doesn't always follow real World logic. Why is Padmé Amidala allowed to make a snap judgement to release one of the most destructive and elusive enemy generals for one person, without any consequences? Because there's a war and people were given far more power then they should've ever had in emergency motions and because Palpatine has the ultimate power over everything.
I'm not talking Jedi-Clone relations here. Aside from notable exceptions (Slick) canon shows us the Jedi and Clones getting along and caring for one another. This post explains their relationship far better then I could. As for child soldiers - SW often has children in postions that are not acceptable in our world. Naboo is ruled by child-queens that have child-assassines as canon fodder guards. The Rebellion has child soldiers like Sabine and Ezra and no one cares. Boba Fett is a pre-teen bounty hunter and then goes to adult prison. All of this is normal in Szar Wars. The Jedi Padawans are Commanders because the rules of the GAR deem it so and because they would've gone on dangerous missions even without the war.
I don't know where you got that from, but i got my intergalactic Therapists quote "They’re aren’t an aggressive Force at all. They try to — conflict resolution, I guess, is what you might — intergalactic therapists." from this Interview transcript (or this video around 28:50).
There was a pretty big change after that decade in the form of Palpatine suddenly amassing a substantial amount of power through emergency notions during a war that he handled very badly.
It has only been twenty years since the republic fell. There's multiple Jedi in or working with the rebellion. Bail Organa and Mon Mothma were both on the Senate during the Clone Wars. What are you talking about, "none of them were around"?
Before the fall of the Republic we only see the Phrase used by Jedi. It's only once the Jedi have been mostly massacred, that we see other characters use the phrase. Granted, other force religions like the Guardians of the Whills also seem to use it. We do not see it used as a greeting, it's used like "Goodbye and Good Luck".
It has to do with the post because it's a response to your previous message. I also don't know how we got started on the wrong Jedi Arc, because Ahsoka distrusts the council and escapes following what she initially thinks is Anakin's plan immediately upon first capture and then escapes, before any of the trial stuff even happens. What training exercise did you mean? The one that Anakin secretly organizes where Clone Troopers shoot at Ahsoka until she passess out and then start right back up when she wakes? And when do they leave her for dead? They search for her when she gets captured. Do you mean when Luminara thinks Ahsoka and Barriss died under the rubble of an entire Geonosian colony?
I'm not talking Jedi-Clone relations here. Aside from notable exceptions (Slick) canon shows us the Jedi and Clones getting along and caring for one another. This post explains their relationship far better then I could
Yeah, that's BS. The Clones are property. They are legally considered property of the Republic and have no rights. That makes them slaves. The Jedi "treating them well" doesn't change that. You treat your slave well you're still a slave owner.
You're probably one of those "but muh Watto was a good slave owner!" people too. There's no such thing as a a "good" slave owner, nobody has the right to *own* other human beings. This is basic.
Why is Padmé Amidala allowed to make a snap judgement to release one of the most destructive and elusive enemy generals for one person, without any consequences? Because there's a war and people were given far more power then they should've ever had in emergency motions and because Palpatine has the ultimate power over everything.
Or why the Jedi were able to hide that dirty little secret about how Dooku really ordered the Clone Troopers whilst holding Sifo Dyas hostage? You'd think *oh btw the Clones were actually created by the Sith* would be something the Senate might want to know but I guess "Palpatine controls everything" is a neat way of erasing their agency...
. And the Tarkin made it pretty clear, that the Jedi had to expell her (with vegue threats about not doing so being seen as defying the Senate).
Yes "just following orders" - the old Nuremberg Defence- except its not accepted as a defence. "We might be seen as defying the Senate" isn't an excuse for doing evil shit.
It has only been twenty years since the republic fell. There's multiple Jedi in or working with the rebellion.
Ahsoka doesn't count herself as as a Jedi. Ezra was never with the Order.
Bail Organa and Mon Mothma were both on the Senate during the Clone Wars. What are you talking about, "none of them were around"?
Neither were Jedi and Mon has no known associations with them. Padme was actually the one who got them involved in the anti- Palpatine movements as per a deleted scene. .
As for child soldiers - SW often has children in postions that are not acceptable in our world. Naboo is ruled by child-queens that have child-assassines as canon fodder guards. The Rebellion has child soldiers like Sabine and Ezra and no one cares.
Sweetie, its a major plot point in the whole Wrong Jedi arc that being forced to fight at a young age is what made Barriss and Ahsoka so messed up in the first place. Naboo's child Queens rarely participate in combat, and decoys aren't the same as putting a kid on a battlefield.
"Everyone does it" doesn't make it acceptable and Sabine is at least 19. Legally an *adult*
Boba Fett is a pre-teen bounty hunter and then goes to adult prison.
Which was almost entirely due to the actions of Mace Windu- first killing his father then not doing anything to help the kid. An adult Jedi abandoning a child? Quelle surprise!
All of this is normal in Szar Wars. The Jedi Padawans are Commanders because the rules of the GAR deem it so and because they would've gone on dangerous missions even without the war.
"But its just normal" doesn't make it morally acceptable or cancel out the trauma. And the Jedi being abusive and negligent of children anyway doesn't make sending them into battle any more acceptable.
What training exercise did you mean? The one that Anakin secretly organizes where Clone Troopers shoot at Ahsoka until she passess out and then start right back up when she wakes?
Lol, the one you say is "abusive" but is actually not very much different to any Special Forces training. Its funny how you all want to see "abuse" where there is none but ignore the very real instances of child abuse- by the Jedi.
💬 0 🔁 12 ❤️ 22 · "It's Called Training: In Defence of 'Practice Makes Perfect'" · A Meta on the Difference Between Tough Training and Abus
Like the whole Padawan Lost arc, in which Ashoka discovers a whole group of Padawans being *hunted for sport* because their Masters abandoned them. Left them for dead. That is every shade of messed up- that the Order *regularly* left children for dead on training exercises. Not just once but dozens of times.
And when do they leave her for dead? They search for her when she gets captured. Do you mean when Luminara thinks Ahsoka and Barriss died under the rubble of an entire Geonosian colony?
Yeah in a battle they should never have been fighting. What the heck do you think would happen if an adult abandoned a child in real life to prove they're "not attached"? They'd be up on charges for child neglect, abandonment and possibly culpable homicide.
Are you seriously accusing me of supporting fuckin slavery right now? No, Watto and all the other slavers in SW, like the Zygerians, are pieces of shit. They Jedi just aren't the ones calling the shots about the clones, the Senate is. While the Kaminoans say that the clones were made for the Jedi, they don't have the money and the republic senate discusses financing options to create more clones. The Senate owns the Clones. And the Jedi are also forced to be here - while their situation is no where near as bad as the clones, they were drafted into the war against their will. Did you read the post I added?
Dooku's involvement is kept secret and not explored on-screen until very late, because the writing of the Star Wars Universe requires it to stay secret. That's the same reason Obi-Wan doesn't simply cut Anakin's head off on Mustafar and the reason Padmé dies in childbirth is a very technologically advanced universe. It just has to happen for the plot. In universe you could explain it with: 1.why tf would anyone believe Dooku, 2. the Jedi only discovered it when the republic was so entangled in the war that the Clones were needed because it would've ended badly otherwise, 3.what would do the republic even do with millions of highly trained men (probably kill them), 4.the Jedi now know the clones and they are pretty stand up guys and, aside from the rare outliers, they're all very loyal to the republic and no one has noticed anything evil about them.
And yeah, the fact that Palpatine control both sides of the war and pretty much everything else and that everyone's agency is limited because of that is rather part of the central problem of the movies.
It's the defence when your entire order is a religious minority with limited rights that is being forced to do something by the political and legal system that controls their lifelyhood and has already drafted them into a war. We end the Prequels by seeing what can happen to the Jedi if they don't comply. They get killed, because they are a vulnerable minority. They might fight better then many other people, but bounty hunters (and the clones) are consistantly able to pose a danger to them.
I am not talking about Ezra and Ahsoka. I mean Ezra's Master Kanan Jarrus or Caleb Dume and Cal Kestis, Cere Junda and Obi-Wan Kenobi (and later Luke Skywalker).
That canon status of deleted scenes is uncertain, but Mon Mothma and Bail Organa are the people we see as leaders of the rebellion, and Bail especially is always shown of a supporter of the Jedi, to the point that he risks his life to go to the temple and later to help Obi-Wan and Yoda. Leia is also raised with a very Jedi positive attitude. Many other rebels were also alive and aware when the Jedi were still alive. There's people over 20 years of age in the rebellion.
Barriss is, once again, an outlier. She is one of 3 Jedi were are shown to have fallen before order 66 - that's Dooku, Krell and her. Sabine is 16 in season one of rebels, and has already been in the rebellion for quite some time, so she's Ahsoka's age. And very, very much a child soldier. The Handmaidens spent all their time waiting for assassines that possibly want to kill their Queen so that they can die instead. They received special combat training before. They are child soldiers with a specialized guarding role. Boba only left his hiding place when the Arena was empty, they didn't even know he was there. The Jedi and Clones left and immediately started fighting a war.
I mentioned the people I did because they show a clear sytematic pattern of child-welfare simply not mattering as much in Star Wars as it does in reality. It's not the Jedi, it's the entire Star Wars Galaxy.
Ahsoka's training in totj is different. Anakin makes her do it, because he does not consider the training she gets otherwise enough. I'm calling it abusive because it's held secretly in what is not a training room and the Clones also Question it, because it's out of the norm.
We talked about that arc in the replies. The children are not Padawans, they are younglings and thus don't have masters. They were kidnapped from a training exercise. We aren't shown if the Jedi searched for them and were simply unable to find them, or if they thought they had died.
Luminara thought the Padwans were dead. They only survived because one of the indestructable tanks happened to go into the room they were in and they happened to get into in in time. Even then they were almost dead when the others found them. Their survival is a miracle, not something expected.
my personal Star Wars conspiracy theory, since none of you asked, is that the solar panels on TIE fighter wings only generate like 1% of the power the ship needs and the Empire put them there as greenwashing propaganda
I am pretty sure the expulsion to face her potential execution for the Temple bombing she didn't do and having to go on the lamb to clear her name with only Anakin and Padme trying anything to save her might have a bit to play with Ahsoka being disillusioned with the Order in the end.
And the non apology and bribe of knighthood when the truth came out because the teenager turned political scapegoat has rational doubts after facing her own death because the Jedi Order would sacrifice a child they raised in a heart beat.
It isn't like they sold off Anakin the minute it bought them brownie points when Palpatine first tool office.
See, the Jedi Council did try to clear Ahsoka's name and to get her out of prision, it's just that Ahsoka broke out, following what she tought to be Anakin's plan for a while, before realizing the person helping her was an unknown and still following their plan, and then teamed up with Ventress. What is important about that arc is that Anakin's teachings have removed Ahsoka so far from the Jedi mindset, that she doesn't have the patience to wait until the council finds a solution, or the clear-headedness to recognize that the escape makes her seem more suspicious.
For all intents and purposes, Ahsoka looks guilty. It does not matter what the Jedi believe about her character. They've been wrong about things like that before (Pong Krell, Anakin...). And it turns out to have been a Padawan, just a Padawan who was not Ahsoka. Barriss being the bomber would've just seemed as unlikely as Ahsoka. To add to that, the Jedi can't just skip a trial. Non-Jedi Republic citizens died, it's no longer just a Jedi matter. What do you want them to do? Lock her up in the temple for safe-keeping (putting all the other Jedi in the temple at risk) so that the Republic can't arrest her?
And the Jedi did not sell off Anakin? I am genuinely confused what you're talking about.
The Jedi Order took a teenager, one they had a duty and responsibility towards, and tossed her the wolves because protecting her or just taking a moral stance at all might damage their political standing with the Senate.
They didn't care about Ahsoka, a child that the Council personally knew, taught, and turned into a weapon of war before she was a legal adult.
They left her out to face her potential death alone and /Ahsoka/ is to blame for not trusting the system that set her up to die?
I really don't understand the definition of 'family' where the organization that leaves a child to be potentially executed and still thinks they can claim the high moral ground.
If one of your children is so radicalized and desperate that they want to bomb their own home in order to protest a war that they were forced to fight maybe, maybe some internal self reflection is appropriate.
Maybe you should consider, that all the Jedi were drafted. They had no choice. I also literally didn't say anything about their standing with the Senate. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHOICE THEN TO PUT HER THROUGH A TRIAL. Unless they want to start a civil war with the republic, they can't do anything other then to try and prove her innocence in court. The system is turned against all Jedi. If any of the Councillors were put in Ahsoka's situation, they would stay in their cell and believe that their fellows will find a way to get them out.
I also don't know why you're so convinced that Ahsoka would get executed. We see Barriss in prision. She survives past order 66.
They don't try to claim the high ground. They don't have another choice. You yourself explained why Ahsoka and the Jedi are a family. They raised and taught her. They took her in and sheltered her until they were forced to send her to war.
Are you trying to justify the temple bombing? The Jedi know that the war is having a bad effect on their members, they just can't do anything about it. Jedi are dying by the dozen, but they can't leave. They tried to do their duty and walked straight into a sith trap. They have no where else to go. If they just retreat from the front, inncocent people would die and none of the republic military officers would try to work with the clones. They would have to abandon the republic in a war they know to be run by Sith, because they would have to flee Coruscant after being branded as traitors.
I ask you again, because you didn't answer the question before: What would you have them do?
You do understand that 'just following orders' is not even an excuse that Stormtroopers can use to avoid accountability let alone the elite warrior monks that claim a monopoly on the Force?
Drafts can be dodged.
Principal stances can be made.
Maybe even debate the nature of going to war for a corrupt government that can't even defend itself without chattel slavery?
Or just protect the actual /child/ given over to your care and provide for them even if makes unpopular political waves?
It's not about "just following orders" i don't know where you got that from, as I didn't mention that phrase once. And what accountability do you want them to take? Trying to work within the law to find evidence for Ahsoka's innocence, even though she looks guilty from all angles?
Drafts can be dodged, but not by an entire religious organization that is largely in the public eye and employed exclusively in the high ranks. Especially not if innocent people would die. Inncocent people that they could save, using their magic powers. Especially not if their entire philospohy and identity as people is based on helping people and tied deeply to the republic. Jedi want to help people. They don't want anyone to die, if they can help it.
The Jedi can't leave. The entire war is a trap by the Sith that's been a Millennium in the making. There is no way for all of them to just escape.
The Jedi can't exist without public approval. That's not about politics, but about survival. They need the public to like them so that they can help the most people. All of their members were born and taken in. They don't make money. They most likely need the republic to get supplies. 'Unpopular political waves' is a cute expression, because it makes it sound like that's not hugely important for the continued existance of any group of people. As if the Jedi, being the biggest group of force-users that most people know about, aren't seen as representatives of Force sensitives in general.
You can't protect a child if you don't have the means to. You can't protect it if you're being hunted. You can't protect anyone if your entire people (even ones not in ypur group) get prosecuted for being traitors.
Once again, the Jedi can't leave. Once again, Ahsoka has all the evidence stacked against her.
And what accountability do you want them to take? Trying to work within the law to find evidence for Ahsoka's innocence, even though she looks guilty from all angles?
What did I just read? No seriously... you typed a sentence describing basic due process of law as if it was some kind of absurd notion that should be discarded.
Yes---- they should've investigated and found evidence because that is what justice and morality requires! You investigate so that the wrong person doesn't get punished and the real perpetrator doesn't get away with doing bad things. Why is this hard?
"But she looked guilty!" isn't an argument, its an excuse. Its an excuse for people in power to shirk their responsibilities and not do their jobs. Its the kind of excuse a corrupt police officer or politician might make for a gross miscarriage of justice because actually doing the right thing and finding the real perpetrator was just too hard.
They need the public to like them so that they can help the most people.
Okay. Wrongly convicting and prosecuting somebody for a crime they didn't commit doesn't actually make people like you. In fact, it tends to have the opposite effect.
If the Jedi wanted people to trust them, they should've done a proper investigation. Failing to do so made them look incompetent and corrupt. You can't be the "guardians of justice" when you very publicly allowed a gross injustice to happen to one of your own people because it was politically convenient.
Everything that went down with Ahsoka made the Jedi look bad. People are not going to trust an institution that can't even do right by its own members.
What would happen next time the Jedi came along to "protect people"? They would be "you're the guys who wrongly executed an innocent teenager and allowed the real bomber to escape, and now you claim we need you to stop the innocent dying?"
See how the Jedi now have zero credibility?
There is no choice. The Jedi are trapped
There is absolutely a choice: the Jedi could have investigated. Even if it was hard, even if there was political pushback - because doing the right thing is what wins you friends in the end. People see it, that's what makes them like you and rally to your cause.
Doing what is easy or politically expedient doesn't. It just makes you complicit in all the bad shit that is happening.
People didn't turn on the Jedi because they were stupid or manipulated: they turned on the Jedi because the Jedi had become corrupt. So corrupt that they mistook political convenience for morality. So corrupt, they allowed evil to continue because challenging it might cause them difficulties in the Senate.
People saw that. That's why they didn't like the Jedi. Its also why Ahsoka didn't trust the Jedi.
Anakin didn't make her distrust the Jedi: they did that themselves. Nobody is going to trust an institution which abandoned them twice and them subjected them to wrongful arrest and imprisonment.
They are working within the law. They're trying to gather evidence, but then Ahsoka escapes and it's simply so much harder now. All the evidence that has been found so far (Ahsoka seemingly chocking a woman to death on video, breaking out and seemingly injuring and killing a lot of Coruscant Guard troopers and later being seen with known enemy of the republic Asajj Ventress). She looks fucking guilty because all the evidence is against her. Had she gone back into her cell and not picked up her lightsabers when she saw the troopers on the ground, it would've been pretty obvious that she wasn't the person responsible.
All the evidence suggest Ahsoka is guilty. Everyone thinks she is guilty. The non-Jedi that were working at the temple and got affected by the bomb and all of Coruscant thinks Ahsoka Tano is guilty. Not complying with the Republic's Justice system would've looked like the Jedi were letting someone get away with murder, just because they are a member of the order. They would've needed to have evidence to prove her innocence, which they did not have.
Ahsoka gets arrested. The Jedi are being forbidden from seeing Ahsoka (Anakin gets escourted out by Corries with activated weapons). Everything about Ahsoka's trial is under Tarkin's control, which is stated in the episode. Then she escapes while Anakin is trying to visit her. All of this happens in the same episode on a very very fast timeline. It's dark out when Ahsoka gets imprisoned and it's still dark out when she escapes. That is not a lot of time to gather evidence when Anakin seemingly also just learned that she's being held captive and arrives while she escapes.
The next thing we see of the Council has Tarkin (the guy the republic put in charge of the investigation) telling them that "after further investigation there can be little doubt that the clones officers murdered in the escape were killed by none other then Ahsoka Tano herself". All evidence suggests that Ahsoka did it. The council is shown to not be happy about it, but they officially agree that Ahsoka probably killed that woman and the troopers, because that's waht the evidence says. They are not investigating because they've already sent a council member and Anakin out to capture the presumed terrorist threat, that is hanging out with Sith Apprentice and Seperatist General Asajj Ventress the next time they lay eyes on her.
Throughout Star Wars all we see the Jedi try to do is help. To the point that the Jedi's desire to help and rescue people, their morality, their compassion, is stated to be the weakness you have to exploit if you want to kill them. Lukas descripted them as intergalactic therapists. But they are 10000 and over 2 trillion people live on Coruscant alone. They are spread thin and fighting a war they have slowly been manipulated into over the course of a 1000 year long plan by people that want them dead. It's a pretty big plot point in rots that the Jedi don't trust Palpatine and that they can't even stop him from forcing Anakin onto the council. The public during the Clone wars sees the Jedi as War General that just can't seem to end the war, some seem to really like and trust them, others don't. The rebellion likes the Jedi so much they use their "may the force be with you" phrase.
Um yeah- so what you're describing there isn't due process.
Had she gone back into her cell and not picked up her lightsabers when she saw the troopers on the ground, it would've been pretty obvious that she wasn't the person responsible.
That's a bad as saying a person is guilty if they run and we should convict people on that basis alone.
Even "terrorists" are entitled to legal representation and a trial by jury. Heck if the Jedi convicted everyone who hung out with terrorists Obi Wan should've been in prison several times over because of his little escapade with the Death Watch.
What was done to Ahsoka wasn't in the remit of any justice system anywhere. Period. Tarkin never presented any evidence; he just claimed he'd seen it. Tarkin is also a military general: Ahsoka isn't a member of the GAR. Neither are the Clones. Tarkin shouldn't have any jurisdiction over this case.
You don't try a minor who isn't a member of the armed forces in a military court without any kind of representation. You also failed to mention: the Jedi had to formally expel Ahsoka for her to be put on trial in the first place.
They didn't question anything. They didn't ask why this highly irregular procedure was going on, they didn't ask why due process wasn't being observed. They're just "nope this will make us look bad, so bye I guess!"
(And you wonder why she didn't trust those guys?)
Throughout Star Wars all we see the Jedi try to do is help. To the point that the Jedi's desire to help and rescue people, their morality, their compassion
If "helping people" requires you to participate in slavery and use child soldiers, you probably need to rethink your priorities.
Lukas descripted them as intergalactic therapists.
Yeah, I've read that interview several times and this quote is taken out of context. It was actually a joke, and Lucas described them as "negotiating at the point of a lightsaber". Which means forcing people to comply with a threat of violence if necessary.
It's a pretty big plot point in rots that the Jedi don't trust Palpatine and that they can't even stop him from forcing Anakin onto the council.
Its also a major plot point that they trusted Palpatine enough to let hm have unsupervised access to Anakin for over a decade. That's either complacency or child neglect- take your pick.
The rebellion likes the Jedi so much they use their "may the force be with you" phrase.
Yes, that's because institutions which no longer exist tend to get mythologised and made out to be better than they really were. None of the members of the Rebellion were actually alive when the old Republic were around, or their view wouldn't be so positive.
Also "May the Force be WIth You" is basically the equivalent of saying "God bless you" - its not specifically a Jedi phrase. Just something people say. A greeting.
Anyway, what does any of this have to do with why Ahsoka doesn't trust the Jedi?
Wasn't your original post that big bad evil Anakin made Ahsoka distrust the Jedi who did her no harm ever? Instead of the canon reality that they:
Left her for dead in a warzone
Left her for dead on a training exercise
Expelled her from the order, allowed her to be tried in a Military Court
Anybody would lose trust an institution which treated them like that- and that's definitely not how a "family" acts.
It doesn't mean she's guilty, but it does make her look it, especially since it lead to her working with Ventress and being found with explosive nanobots. Staying and not doing anything would've shown that there's more going on.
She did have a trial. That's the point. Padmé represented her. They were overwhelmed, because Tarkin had a video in which Ahsoka seemingly strangles someone with the force. He had multiple witnessess to her escape (which didn't only leave the injured troopers in the halway), her working with Ventress and her in a warehouse with the bots. There's multiple people that were injured in her escape. There's video evidence of that, too, because they had surveillance drones.
Tarkin is in charge, because Palpatine wants him to be in charge. Ahsoka is a Commander of the GAR - Tarkin shouldn't be in charge of her because he's an Admiral of the Navy, but Palpatine stands over the Navy and the GAR and the Senate because of his emergency powers, and can thus do what he wants. If he wants Tarkin in charge of the entire affair, then he will be. The Clones are the GAR, but they are still shown obeying the Admirals.
She didn't need to be expelled to be held captive. And the Tarkin made it pretty clear, that the Jedi had to expell her (with vegue threats about not doing so being seen as defying the Senate).
They didn't need to question it, because it's pretty obvious. Weird shit is going on because the Temple was bombed and multiple republic citizens and Guard Troopers died - it's not just a Jedi matter and because the Temple is a big public thing, the entire affair is a big public thing. And Star Wars doesn't always follow real World logic. Why is Padmé Amidala allowed to make a snap judgement to release one of the most destructive and elusive enemy generals for one person, without any consequences? Because there's a war and people were given far more power then they should've ever had in emergency motions and because Palpatine has the ultimate power over everything.
I'm not talking Jedi-Clone relations here. Aside from notable exceptions (Slick) canon shows us the Jedi and Clones getting along and caring for one another. This post explains their relationship far better then I could. As for child soldiers - SW often has children in postions that are not acceptable in our world. Naboo is ruled by child-queens that have child-assassines as canon fodder guards. The Rebellion has child soldiers like Sabine and Ezra and no one cares. Boba Fett is a pre-teen bounty hunter and then goes to adult prison. All of this is normal in Szar Wars. The Jedi Padawans are Commanders because the rules of the GAR deem it so and because they would've gone on dangerous missions even without the war.
I don't know where you got that from, but i got my intergalactic Therapists quote "They’re aren’t an aggressive Force at all. They try to — conflict resolution, I guess, is what you might — intergalactic therapists." from this Interview transcript (or this video around 28:50).
There was a pretty big change after that decade in the form of Palpatine suddenly amassing a substantial amount of power through emergency notions during a war that he handled very badly.
It has only been twenty years since the republic fell. There's multiple Jedi in or working with the rebellion. Bail Organa and Mon Mothma were both on the Senate during the Clone Wars. What are you talking about, "none of them were around"?
Before the fall of the Republic we only see the Phrase used by Jedi. It's only once the Jedi have been mostly massacred, that we see other characters use the phrase. Granted, other force religions like the Guardians of the Whills also seem to use it. We do not see it used as a greeting, it's used like "Goodbye and Good Luck".
It has to do with the post because it's a response to your previous message. I also don't know how we got started on the wrong Jedi Arc, because Ahsoka distrusts the council and escapes following what she initially thinks is Anakin's plan immediately upon first capture and then escapes, before any of the trial stuff even happens. What training exercise did you mean? The one that Anakin secretly organizes where Clone Troopers shoot at Ahsoka until she passess out and then start right back up when she wakes? And when do they leave her for dead? They search for her when she gets captured. Do you mean when Luminara thinks Ahsoka and Barriss died under the rubble of an entire Geonosian colony?
I am pretty sure the expulsion to face her potential execution for the Temple bombing she didn't do and having to go on the lamb to clear her name with only Anakin and Padme trying anything to save her might have a bit to play with Ahsoka being disillusioned with the Order in the end.
And the non apology and bribe of knighthood when the truth came out because the teenager turned political scapegoat has rational doubts after facing her own death because the Jedi Order would sacrifice a child they raised in a heart beat.
It isn't like they sold off Anakin the minute it bought them brownie points when Palpatine first tool office.
See, the Jedi Council did try to clear Ahsoka's name and to get her out of prision, it's just that Ahsoka broke out, following what she tought to be Anakin's plan for a while, before realizing the person helping her was an unknown and still following their plan, and then teamed up with Ventress. What is important about that arc is that Anakin's teachings have removed Ahsoka so far from the Jedi mindset, that she doesn't have the patience to wait until the council finds a solution, or the clear-headedness to recognize that the escape makes her seem more suspicious.
For all intents and purposes, Ahsoka looks guilty. It does not matter what the Jedi believe about her character. They've been wrong about things like that before (Pong Krell, Anakin...). And it turns out to have been a Padawan, just a Padawan who was not Ahsoka. Barriss being the bomber would've just seemed as unlikely as Ahsoka. To add to that, the Jedi can't just skip a trial. Non-Jedi Republic citizens died, it's no longer just a Jedi matter. What do you want them to do? Lock her up in the temple for safe-keeping (putting all the other Jedi in the temple at risk) so that the Republic can't arrest her?
And the Jedi did not sell off Anakin? I am genuinely confused what you're talking about.
The Jedi Order took a teenager, one they had a duty and responsibility towards, and tossed her the wolves because protecting her or just taking a moral stance at all might damage their political standing with the Senate.
They didn't care about Ahsoka, a child that the Council personally knew, taught, and turned into a weapon of war before she was a legal adult.
They left her out to face her potential death alone and /Ahsoka/ is to blame for not trusting the system that set her up to die?
I really don't understand the definition of 'family' where the organization that leaves a child to be potentially executed and still thinks they can claim the high moral ground.
If one of your children is so radicalized and desperate that they want to bomb their own home in order to protest a war that they were forced to fight maybe, maybe some internal self reflection is appropriate.
Maybe you should consider, that all the Jedi were drafted. They had no choice. I also literally didn't say anything about their standing with the Senate. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHOICE THEN TO PUT HER THROUGH A TRIAL. Unless they want to start a civil war with the republic, they can't do anything other then to try and prove her innocence in court. The system is turned against all Jedi. If any of the Councillors were put in Ahsoka's situation, they would stay in their cell and believe that their fellows will find a way to get them out.
I also don't know why you're so convinced that Ahsoka would get executed. We see Barriss in prision. She survives past order 66.
They don't try to claim the high ground. They don't have another choice. You yourself explained why Ahsoka and the Jedi are a family. They raised and taught her. They took her in and sheltered her until they were forced to send her to war.
Are you trying to justify the temple bombing? The Jedi know that the war is having a bad effect on their members, they just can't do anything about it. Jedi are dying by the dozen, but they can't leave. They tried to do their duty and walked straight into a sith trap. They have no where else to go. If they just retreat from the front, inncocent people would die and none of the republic military officers would try to work with the clones. They would have to abandon the republic in a war they know to be run by Sith, because they would have to flee Coruscant after being branded as traitors.
I ask you again, because you didn't answer the question before: What would you have them do?
You do understand that 'just following orders' is not even an excuse that Stormtroopers can use to avoid accountability let alone the elite warrior monks that claim a monopoly on the Force?
Drafts can be dodged.
Principal stances can be made.
Maybe even debate the nature of going to war for a corrupt government that can't even defend itself without chattel slavery?
Or just protect the actual /child/ given over to your care and provide for them even if makes unpopular political waves?
It's not about "just following orders" i don't know where you got that from, as I didn't mention that phrase once. And what accountability do you want them to take? Trying to work within the law to find evidence for Ahsoka's innocence, even though she looks guilty from all angles?
Drafts can be dodged, but not by an entire religious organization that is largely in the public eye and employed exclusively in the high ranks. Especially not if innocent people would die. Inncocent people that they could save, using their magic powers. Especially not if their entire philospohy and identity as people is based on helping people and tied deeply to the republic. Jedi want to help people. They don't want anyone to die, if they can help it.
The Jedi can't leave. The entire war is a trap by the Sith that's been a Millennium in the making. There is no way for all of them to just escape.
The Jedi can't exist without public approval. That's not about politics, but about survival. They need the public to like them so that they can help the most people. All of their members were born and taken in. They don't make money. They most likely need the republic to get supplies. 'Unpopular political waves' is a cute expression, because it makes it sound like that's not hugely important for the continued existance of any group of people. As if the Jedi, being the biggest group of force-users that most people know about, aren't seen as representatives of Force sensitives in general.
You can't protect a child if you don't have the means to. You can't protect it if you're being hunted. You can't protect anyone if your entire people (even ones not in ypur group) get prosecuted for being traitors.
Once again, the Jedi can't leave. Once again, Ahsoka has all the evidence stacked against her.
And what accountability do you want them to take? Trying to work within the law to find evidence for Ahsoka's innocence, even though she looks guilty from all angles?
What did I just read? No seriously... you typed a sentence describing basic due process of law as if it was some kind of absurd notion that should be discarded.
Yes---- they should've investigated and found evidence because that is what justice and morality requires! You investigate so that the wrong person doesn't get punished and the real perpetrator doesn't get away with doing bad things. Why is this hard?
"But she looked guilty!" isn't an argument, its an excuse. Its an excuse for people in power to shirk their responsibilities and not do their jobs. Its the kind of excuse a corrupt police officer or politician might make for a gross miscarriage of justice because actually doing the right thing and finding the real perpetrator was just too hard.
They need the public to like them so that they can help the most people.
Okay. Wrongly convicting and prosecuting somebody for a crime they didn't commit doesn't actually make people like you. In fact, it tends to have the opposite effect.
If the Jedi wanted people to trust them, they should've done a proper investigation. Failing to do so made them look incompetent and corrupt. You can't be the "guardians of justice" when you very publicly allowed a gross injustice to happen to one of your own people because it was politically convenient.
Everything that went down with Ahsoka made the Jedi look bad. People are not going to trust an institution that can't even do right by its own members.
What would happen next time the Jedi came along to "protect people"? They would be "you're the guys who wrongly executed an innocent teenager and allowed the real bomber to escape, and now you claim we need you to stop the innocent dying?"
See how the Jedi now have zero credibility?
There is no choice. The Jedi are trapped
There is absolutely a choice: the Jedi could have investigated. Even if it was hard, even if there was political pushback - because doing the right thing is what wins you friends in the end. People see it, that's what makes them like you and rally to your cause.
Doing what is easy or politically expedient doesn't. It just makes you complicit in all the bad shit that is happening.
People didn't turn on the Jedi because they were stupid or manipulated: they turned on the Jedi because the Jedi had become corrupt. So corrupt that they mistook political convenience for morality. So corrupt, they allowed evil to continue because challenging it might cause them difficulties in the Senate.
People saw that. That's why they didn't like the Jedi. Its also why Ahsoka didn't trust the Jedi.
Anakin didn't make her distrust the Jedi: they did that themselves. Nobody is going to trust an institution which abandoned them twice and them subjected them to wrongful arrest and imprisonment.
They are working within the law. They're trying to gather evidence, but then Ahsoka escapes and it's simply so much harder now. All the evidence that has been found so far (Ahsoka seemingly chocking a woman to death on video, breaking out and seemingly injuring and killing a lot of Coruscant Guard troopers and later being seen with known enemy of the republic Asajj Ventress). She looks fucking guilty because all the evidence is against her. Had she gone back into her cell and not picked up her lightsabers when she saw the troopers on the ground, it would've been pretty obvious that she wasn't the person responsible.
All the evidence suggest Ahsoka is guilty. Everyone thinks she is guilty. The non-Jedi that were working at the temple and got affected by the bomb and all of Coruscant thinks Ahsoka Tano is guilty. Not complying with the Republic's Justice system would've looked like the Jedi were letting someone get away with murder, just because they are a member of the order. They would've needed to have evidence to prove her innocence, which they did not have.
Ahsoka gets arrested. The Jedi are being forbidden from seeing Ahsoka (Anakin gets escourted out by Corries with activated weapons). Everything about Ahsoka's trial is under Tarkin's control, which is stated in the episode. Then she escapes while Anakin is trying to visit her. All of this happens in the same episode on a very very fast timeline. It's dark out when Ahsoka gets imprisoned and it's still dark out when she escapes. That is not a lot of time to gather evidence when Anakin seemingly also just learned that she's being held captive and arrives while she escapes.
The next thing we see of the Council has Tarkin (the guy the republic put in charge of the investigation) telling them that "after further investigation there can be little doubt that the clones officers murdered in the escape were killed by none other then Ahsoka Tano herself". All evidence suggests that Ahsoka did it. The council is shown to not be happy about it, but they officially agree that Ahsoka probably killed that woman and the troopers, because that's waht the evidence says. They are not investigating because they've already sent a council member and Anakin out to capture the presumed terrorist threat, that is hanging out with Sith Apprentice and Seperatist General Asajj Ventress the next time they lay eyes on her.
Throughout Star Wars all we see the Jedi try to do is help. To the point that the Jedi's desire to help and rescue people, their morality, their compassion, is stated to be the weakness you have to exploit if you want to kill them. Lukas descripted them as intergalactic therapists. But they are 10000 and over 2 trillion people live on Coruscant alone. They are spread thin and fighting a war they have slowly been manipulated into over the course of a 1000 year long plan by people that want them dead. It's a pretty big plot point in rots that the Jedi don't trust Palpatine and that they can't even stop him from forcing Anakin onto the council. The public during the Clone wars sees the Jedi as War General that just can't seem to end the war, some seem to really like and trust them, others don't. The rebellion likes the Jedi so much they use their "may the force be with you" phrase.
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