the duffers calling bylers just "noise" that they have to tune out ----> bylers on twitter coming up with a theory based on the massive amounts of plot holes and conformity messaging in the finale that has become so large there are multiple news articles being written about its evidence and everybody's talking abt it online.
The Duffers purposefully weaponized our analytical skills against us in order to queer bait us (while the straight ga didn't even notice , and the Duffers gaslit us in their post finale interviews ).
So I'm very proud of bylers using their analytical skills to point out: the production flaws, plot holes, pointless easter eggs, and how the show ironically ended in conformity. All while the bylers craft a more cohesive story than the Duffers by using easter-eggs, dialogue, parallels, and d&d lore mentioned within the show .
It's KARMA. It hits the Duffers in their egos: as the bylers tear their whole story a part and show to EVERYONE how poor of writers they truly are . GA: "The finale was so bad it caused mass psychosis and some how makes more sense than the finale." The Duffers were short-sighted since MOST theorists/analyzers in the fandom WERE bylers! A lot of us analyzed more than just byler (but the entire show)! We're not just noise they can tune out . Even if the bylers are more than likely wrong-the Duffers are the ones who look bad in the long run . And I think that's beautiful... and hilarious .
I love that conformitygate is either our most brilliant fan theory to date or an exhibition of how badly the Duffers fucked up their own show.
Because imagine ending a show in a way that is so the opposite of what the show is supposed to be about that fans decide it must be an elaborate scheme concocted by the show's villain.
Pointing out all the inconsistencies is the best part . Because they told fans to “look deeper” and that there is “no coincidences “. But now they have to deal with fans pointing out all their errors, and seemingly crafting a better story that would have made more cohesive sense and be better foreshadowed via easterggs, dialogue, and d&d lore . 😅
Duffers saying El was never going to be with the gang in the end , because she "represents the magic of childhood" is just sad. Because , yes, characters can represent something -but writers need to understand they're MORE than just a symbol . They’re also a person/character in the narrative. The fact she also represents the magic of childhood of all things is awfully portrayed since Jane herself never had a real childhood - and because of the writers she doesn’t get an adulthood either .
They also just ignored how they purposely wrote mileven problematically , and instead of letting them break up , or even having El fake her death to find happiness elsewhere (with her sister) . They instead just let mileven kiss (hand wave their issues with an empty speech/ montage) and then immediately kill El off (after they shot Kali ). Also, El says “I love you “ right before she dies … and mike still doesn’t say it back 🙄. She deserved better than that!
What was the point of Hopper’s speech where he says Kali/El shouldn’t have to off themselves, and that they deserve a happy ending (despite life being unfair to them) ? Guess it was pointless. Can’t let El/Kali : the victims of government oppression and abuse ever get a “happy ending”. In fact , both die due to the government . What an uplifting message during these fraught political times. 🙄 This is the opposite of an uplifting message for ab*se survivors: "break the cycle" by offing yourself??????!!!!
El says in reference to Mike’s plan of going somewhere with waterfalls , that : “this isn’t like one of your campaigns ; you don’t get to write the ending”.But then he does just that (he writes HER ending in HIS campaign )! And after 18 months … Will and Mike never get closure or even bring up the painting ? They ignore the cyarno trope all together? Mike even hangs the painting up in his room cause he’s still oblivious and thinks El commissioned it ? Mike falls for the fantasy of El (that Will created) . Just like Mike falls into the fantasy story he created : where El is the mage who is still alive and looking at a waterfall. Did Mike ever really see the real her (or was she just a fantasy to him )? Just like the fantasy characters in his childhood d&d games . Similar to how the duffers claimed El was just a symbol for the “magic of childhood “, ick. Mike is wearing those ugly glasses cause he’s channeling his final form as his oblivious father (who is blind to everything around him) . mike’s worst fears come true : he’s alone, full of regrets, the party drifted apart, and he seemingly never moves on. And it’s implied Will eventually gets a bf who doesn’t have a name , and is on screen for less than 0.5s. . The writers were cowards .
This is why we can’t trust straight dudes to write woman or queer relationships. Even if you believe el survived : then they brought Kali back to kill her friends, torture her , shoot her , and facilitate the white heroine’s happy ending (which is also super gross optics ) . They also chicken-ed out on byler . And said: let’s queerbait and kill the main heroine ( so we don’t have to follow through on breaking up mileven ). Since we’re afraid to follow through on the og plan: let’s just kill her instead (so no one is allowed to ever criticize the main ship ever again) ! I'll never forgot how they compared mileven to ted/karen in multiple seasons . And In s4 made countless parallels of mileven to El/Brenner . El claims Mike always “understood her the most” in s5 , but in s4 she straight up said he doesn’t “understand” her? You can't gaslight us , and claim they were some great love .
Also , they never explain how hopper is allowed to be the police chief again. They had a funeral? What was the cover story to allow him back in Hawkins PD?
Don’t even get me started on the other plot holes … so many plot holes.
I will be doing a more rational breakdown of the Duffers problematic writing choices later (when I’ve calmed down). I actually wrote a whole break down of those issues before the finale just in case so it’ll probably be out soon. And no it’s not just about byler (that’s only 1 bullet point of like a 25 bullet point list). The duffers didn't subvert tropes like we expected them to. They literally tried to bring back old problematic ones.
Brenner, Henry, Mike, and Hopper.
It's been a repeating pattern for El. Even when the people controlling her mean well, they're still controlling her. They're still using her as a tool. Mike even pulls the same "rest up and try again" thing this season as in season 1, and both times it was about her searching for Will.
An independent arc where she's able to have control over her own future is the only ending I want for her.
Preach! This is what I’ve been saying for ages . I wouldn’t necessarily call it an independence arc though . She if anything needs strong female friendships & familial love - something that was taken away from her since she was born. Brenner took away her mother and even her ability to express her femininity. And her whole life has been controlled and dictated by men who think they know what’s best for her .
These aren’t even the only parallels between Mike /el (and her dynamic with brenner, hopper and Henry).
Theories for s5 part2 / part 3 of Stranger things:
We see Henry’s backstory in the play appears to be canon (or semi-canon) in the show . Aka he’s been possessed by the mindflayer since he was a kid . Max and the children will probably be used as a way to establish Henry’s backstory (from the play) within the show. As they’re literally stuck in Henry’s nightmarish memories . It’ll be metaphorical time travel. If Henry is indeed possessed; he may be trapped in his own mind similar to Terry who was stuck in what was described as a “dream” that was essentially a time loop of her worst traumas and memories.
The demos may attack the hospital because Vecna (or the m.f .) are worried about Max waking up and having access to the truth of Henry's possession. Maybe Max being in Henry's mind/memories starts interfering with the mindflayer's hold of him? Or Vecna may just not want her to have access to a certain personal memory -so attacks her body that's in the hospital. But , of course, Max will eventually wake up and be ok in the end.
El and Kali working together will be pivotal in saving the day and their friends- as El can go into people’s minds and Kali can cause illusions (like Vecna can do on his own) . Kali has various parallels to Henry but also key differences as a way to allude to her importance in saving the day as well. I know a lot of people think Kali will be a 'traitor' in s5 , but I hope the writers aren't that predictable . Kali is morally gray, but I feel like she won't be an outright villain-she's named after a Hindu goddess who protects kids after all . Aka Kali helping the 12 kids who were kidnapped in the show.
Also her being brought back to just die (would piss me off). Kali will probably challenge El’s world view in some way in s5, like she did in s2 (and El will probably do the same for Kali). I do believe Kali and Jane in the finale leave together . In one of the st novels, Kali fakes an experiment’s death (via an illusion) in front of a gov official , so they could escape the USA and flee the country. I could see the 2 faking their deaths (via an illusion), and going "somewhere beautiful" -finally free of the government. My guess is Sweden since it also has waterfalls (and in s1 they lied and said Jane was Swedish while she was wearing a disguise). The death of the El look alike in s5e1 could be foreshadowing of her faked death. Especially since el has had a fake death in the s1 finale too . (Theoretically) Jane and Kali are the only 2 to really be able to understand each other fully . They’re the only 2 people left who understand what it’s like to be deprived of a childhood , name and reduced to a number, a "monster", an experiment . And they both could be a comfort to one another as they adjust to the normal world. It would be bitter sweet for El to leave the party but certainly better than El sacrificing her life literally .
When most of the team goes into the upside down I do believe vecna or the mindflayer (or whoever the big bad is ) may cause certain members of the party to have nightmares of their worst fears and traumas as a way to prevent the team in succeeding in their plan . Possibly the core 4 boys , Jonathan , Joyce, etc . Maybe Hopper too- we see Kali flash memories of his daughter Sara to try and prevent him from getting physically close to her. So vecna may do something similar to various members of the team (if they get too close to the physical location of the 12 kids). It would be a good distraction if certain segments of the teams are 'out of it' and 'seeing things'. He did something similar in s4.
I also think that this narrative device (of nightmares) may be what officially OUTS Mike to the audience and re-contextualizes past scenes like the snowball ( and shows Mike's past struggles with internalized homophobia to the viewer) . I think Vecna may exploit both Will & Mike's fear of romantic rejection in these nightmares . Mike may also help snap Will out of his nightmare (or vice versa) possibly at the church in the upsidedown. This may be the catalyst for Will admitting the truth of the painting to Mike (if it's not done by El in her talk with Mike). But Will/Mike probably don't get much time to discuss it right then and there (since their friends are currently in danger ). I would be disappointed, but not surprised, if Mike's feelings aren't confirmed until the very last episode. And all the other byler proof in part 2 is sadly left to interpretation until the very last episode . I could see Mike saying "I know"- to Will admitting El didn't commission the painting (and bylers see the romantic star wars ref while m*levens say it's proof byler isn't happening). Mike may suspect Will's feelings (but if Will doesn't say he's in love with mike in the possible painting confession -Mike may still have lingering doubts about Will's feelings and his motivations for the painting which could be later exploited by Vecna in a nightmare). I discussed this whole dream theory in depth here ( this theory is partially based on films said to inspire st plus prior seasons-I get more into it there ).
It appears the original plan was for the 12 kids to be used to create enough energy to make a bridge to merge the dimensions together (similar to the teenagers k*lled to open the 4 portals in s4). But who knows , maybe the kids are partially just a trap to lure Will in: "Do you see them William, the children?" If Vecna is still possessed by the mindflayer - Will trying to get into vecna’s head to puppet him may backfire (possibly leading to the mindflayer repossessing and puppeting Will and using him as a bridge of sorts).
If that’s the case it would mirror x-men 134 which Will name dropped in the first episode of s1 . It was about the dark phoenix saga: where a character is possessed by a cosmic entity (the dark phoenix) and temporarily becomes evil. Also similar to the novel ‘never ending story’ : Bastian is taken over by “the darkness” and temporarily becomes evil. cannon st comic:
If Will’s repossessed I assume Mike and Will's other loved ones will be important to help break the mindflayer’s control of him. In the st play, ‘the first shadow’ , Patty (Henry’s love interest) helped him fight the mindflayers control . And the official play bio compares patty & Henry to Mike & Will. Patty & Henry admitting their love for each other - actually temporarily stopped the mindflayer’s possession of Henry .Finale be like: “I don’t know what’s on the other side of this"/ "and we kiss as though nothing could fall and the shame was on the other side" .
I’m still attached to my old crack theory of Will (subconsciously) creating the mindflayer and upside down creatures because of his childhood trauma involving his dad (old theory here ) . In d&d lore, mindflayers are actually from the future , but time travel into the past (which could be an explanation for all the time-travel /clocks refs in ST) . various books/ films referenced in the show could allude to that plot twist of Will creating everything . Let's look at those:
-Jonathan in s2 hands Will "the twighlight zone" film: A subplot in it involves a boy with a bowl cut, uses his imagination powers to create monsters and warp reality. We see the boy first introduced playing arcade games. Like how at the beginning of s2: Will and Co are first seen at the arcade . The boy gets upset after finding a news paper clipping : where someone writes on it, anonomously saying he is a ‘monster’ . Aka like the newspaper, Will found, where someone wrote and referred to him as a “zombie boy”. And this boy also tells a monster (he created) to ‘go away’. similar to Will saying to the mindflayer to “go away”.
-Dustin and susie sing “never ending story” which is literally about a seemingly normal boy named Sebastian (who is from a single parent home) subconsciously making a fantasy world that's being invaded by "the darkness" . The 'darkness' represented the loss of hope/dreams: that only his imagination powers could fix . Also yes, Sebastian does look like Will (since he also has the signature bowl cut).
-Suzie in s3 is seen reading the novel: 'the wizard of Earthsea' . And starts taking to dustin about "GED FACING THE SHADOW" . The trilogy is about a pre-teen wizard named Ged (who also has a bowl cut). The boy wizard casts a powerful spell, but the spell goes awry and instead he releases a shadow creature! The new Archmage, Gensher, describes the shadow as an ancient evil that wishes to possess Ged (like the mindflayer possessing Will, and dustin describing the mindflayer as a very old creature ) . But geshner was wrong- the boy wizard accidentally created the shadow monster, and it wasn’t ancient at all. Ged had to face his metaphorical demons so he could take control of his shadow.
-Duffers cited the silent hill videogames as inspo as well: And in s1 Hopper named dropped the character Alessa’s last name. “The bad guys faked Alessa’s death and prepared a substitute body of alessa; and performed a fake autopsy (like Will in s1) . Young Alessa’s latent psychic abilities were triggered and she shrouded Silent Hill in fog and monsters. Many of the drastic changes that befall the town in the game, such as the horrific creatures that come to inhabit it, are conjured from her imagination. The monsters in Silent Hill are deeply tied to the psychological trauma and repressed memories relating to Alessa Gillespie's abusive parents."
The demogorgan in d&d also means the “deep father” which could be symbolic of his abusive dad (so some of the mindflayers traits could also be loosely inspired by Lonnie, and d&d monsters ) . The demogorgan in s1 was symbolically paralleled to Lonnie a lot. And in s2, Will lied and said the mindflayer drawing (which was placed next to his baseball mitt-and therefore connected to Lonnie) was "for a story (he) was writing." Not to mention the mindflayer attacked/ first possessed Will in a baseball field. And Will in s3 even says "he's back" after he uses his dad's bat .
This could be why there’s so many time travel references in ST : the story could be a closed unpreventable time loop : “there upon a rainbow is the answer to a never ending story” . Cough like the rainbow ship Will created. Because Will created the mindflayer it caused Henry to gain powers and become part of 'project rainbow' under Brenner. This leads to Henry eventually becoming vecna - leading to Will being taken to the upside down and the current story. And since (in the play) all the numbers were created via getting blood transfusions from Henry. And since Henry’s blood was altered after he interacted with the mindflayer as a child : it could mean a lot of characters are connected through a time paradox . St was also based on 'the montauk project' which is about time paradoxes and a psychic kid creating a monster from his imagination that manifests into the real world. The s5 teaser also had the song "child in time" play. The UD being stopped on the day of Will's dissapearance may be a hint of Will's bigger connection in the narrative and the upside-down . The clock young Henry looks at , literally says "WILLIAMS" on it (and 2 Williams were later flayed by the mindflayer). Dustin in s3, even handed Will a “forever clock”. And in s1-2, when the monsters appeared we could even hear the sound of a clock ticking. Right before Will sees the mindflayer outside his house in s2, there's even a zoom in on a random clock . And "time after time" plays at the snowball, and it's revealed the Mindflayer was watching the entire thing. Lyric: "I hear the clock tick and think of you... the second hand (of a clock) unwinds. I'll be waiting time after time." Even choosing 12 kids could be symbolic -cause it'd be like a clock . The clock goes in a full circular rotation --like a closed stable TIME LOOP would)!
Owens in s2 even described Will's anniversary effect as "neurological flood gates opening" (like El opening the gates to the U.D). Since El in the lab was being taught how to go INTO people's minds to spy, the void she opened in s1 with the demogorgan may have actually been a thought from someone's mind- Will's subconscious mind. Nancy even theorized in s2 "this thing is like a big brain controlling everything." Maybe subconsciously, it's Will's brain?
In most of the books and films the duffers have referenced: a character realizes they subconsciously created the antagonist & the fantasy world. This allows them to face their metaphorical demons by using their 'mind' to alter the reality of the dream-scape and the monsters that reside there. And thus get a happy ending . In s5, it was Will who "stopped the scary movie" (the hive mind) with his thoughts. And he may do something similar in the finale. I think it would make the most narrative sense for the creator to be Will, but they may just make it Henry or El I suppose.
A small part of me also wonders if Will does temporarily die (like how in s1 they had to do cpr to re-start his heart). Will was later dubbed “the boy who came back to life.” Which was a reference to Harry Potter ( “the boy who lived” ) . Like Will, he had a psychic connection to the evil noseless wizard . Harry also temporarily died but was brought back to life in the finale. And Will is called a "zombie boy" too. Harry also defeated the big bad with "love" and the teamwork of his friends/ found family. Which is a consistent motif in ST too . So even if there's no fake out death: love/team work still saves the day. Honestly with the power of illusions there might be a bunch of fake-out deaths/injuries just to mess with certain characters or the audience.
Birthday gate is a bit hard to pinpoint but I'll try. Will’s bday was supposed to be in s4 but seemed to be forgotten. In s4, murray brought up a mother forgetting her kid's bday. The s4 promotion also had the surfer boy van play happy birthday music. And the ST account posted a birthday cake before s4 was released.And In s2 Joyce brought up Will’s birthday. And in s2 Will even talks about the upside-down with Mike : in front of a "happy birthday" mug. And Will in s2 even has a "sorry, I forget your birthday" card in front of a drawing of "WILL THE WISE" as foreshadowing.
And apparently vecna’s birthday is also on the same day as Will’s? We also have a character named victor creel in ST (and since xmen was reffed in ep 1 by Will , it may be a easteregg to victor creed). Victor Creed in xmen had a habit of traumatizing people on their birthdays. Which is reminiscent of Lonnie who forced Jonathan to hunt and kill a rabbit on his 10th birthday (which caused him to "cry for a week"). Lonnie did this to jonathan so he'd "be more of a man". Since Lonnie already called Will homophobic slurs -and Will is a proficient shooter. (Lonnie may have done similar things on Will's birthday as well to the point Will blocked out or forgot some birthday events in the past) . If Will did have powerful reality altering abilities ...it's possible people are forgetting the day of his birthday: because Will himself wants to forget a birthday related trauma. We already see how repressed memories have been used in s4 for El.
But again... it's just a guess. I do think the forgotten b day may be brought up in a nightmare/hallucination induced by vecna. If my crack theory about Will is wrong. My other guess is , it's the mindflayer/Vecna messing with the memories of his loved ones (since Mike, Joyce, and Jonathan recounting positive memories of their times with Will broke Will from his possession in s2 ). The mindflayer already wiped some of Will’s memories in s2 so it’s possible he does some memory-erasing like that again I suppose ? But , i'll be honest I like my crack theory more (go big or go home). XD
I DON’T believe stranger things is a d&d game but I do think the finale may have Mike ( or Will?) write a book about what occurred . Aka everything happened - but he writes a fantasy/scifi novel titled “stranger things.” I only say this because many movies the st writers cited: have a character write a memoir of their life discussing the events that just took place in the film, And the title of the book was the title of the film the viewer just watched (very meta). Aka one of the characters wrote their story (of what literally happened in the past ). Which is why every episode is titled a “chapter.” It’d be like a memoir ( being passed off as fiction). Mike being the dungeon master (writer of campaigns) could be foreshadowing his future career as a fantasy writer . But Will in s2 also said he was "writing a story" about the supernatural, so it could be Will who is the author (which would go with the whole theme of him creating the ud etc). Some theorists recently stated they think Mike is the one with powers who created everything -given the fact he's the 'dungeon master' and his ability to seemingly predict the supernatural . It's a super cool theory. But, it's hard to say what's meta foreshadowing or what should be taken more literally. Him predicting supernatural events could just be foreshadowing for the season - and or a hint he'll be the writer of "stranger things" the book (but it could be deeper ). I still hope it's Will who created the supernatural (sorry, I know I'm biased XD).
ok, that's it for now. This may all change and be updated once part 2 is out. Because it airs on Christmas I'm not sure when I'll be able to analyze part 2 tbh. But I will as soon as I can. Happy Hollidays :)
I also predict that Will will temporarily die and in that moment, Mike would be so heartbroken that he'll confess his feelings to Will while possibly cradling his dead body. Will witnesses Mike's confession from outside his body (because he is dead obviously) and realizes that he has a life worth living that he's not ready to leave behind, a life shared with the love of his life whose feelings he now knows is reciprocated. I predict that a montage of Mike and Wills moments will be played over this scene as Mike confesses to Will and Will watches from beyond his body. Overcome with emotion, either Will used the last of his powers or some other character uses theirs (I imagine this character witnesses Wills longing to be brought back to life and honors his desire, this character could be either El or possibly redeemed Henry) to bring Will back to life. Will then gasps for air as he finds himself in his body again, looking up at Mike's tearful face as Mike is cradling his body. In the moment, nothing else matters besides the fact that they are together again. Before Mike could say a word, Will says "I know" and they share their first kiss, the upside down kiss.
You know the ironic thing is the same people who say : “ it makes sense for Will to learn the important lesson that first crushes aren’t everything (and it would be better if he ended up happy with an epilogue boyfriend)” would be absolutely irate if El had that ending instead .
Even if it makes WAY MORE SENSE for her narratively. She’s the one who said Mike was her “FIRST boyfriend “.
She’s the one who was making out with Mike the whole summer but in that same season asked Max “how do I know what I like?”
Something she should have learned before dating anyone . And max says in response to not let the men in her life (like Mike) dictate what she likes or chooses . Because “there’s more to life than stupid boys”. Maybe El , a week after getting out of the lab , and learning what a friend was, shouldn't have been kissed and asked out on a date? Right before the 1st kiss she even asked Mike if ‘he’d be her brother’ and asked if they'd go 'as friends' to the snowball. And Mike couldn't even explain how friends/siblings/romantic partners are different before he kissed her.
After Mike kissed her and asked her out, they were then seperated. After this she watched soap operas all day, where the main character rushes into a relationship with a character named Mike Roy: Maybe El (romanticized) what her relationship with Mike wheeler could be like in the future because of this.
ps they weren't endgame in the soap. El was maybe never in love with Mike but the idea of him. (Because she had platonic/familial love for him) and subconsciously wanted to be a normal girl. In s4, she felt like the relationship not working and Mike not saying he loved her , was her fault. Because (in s4) she felt like she “didn’t belong anywhere” and had no friends (in Cali) and struggled to assimilate to a normal life .
She lied to Mike in s4 to keep up the facade of being “normal” cause that’s what she wanted (to be normal and accepted). She wanted to fit-in and belong (and have a boyfriend) like a 'normal girl' .Mike may have represented conformity to El-just like El represented it for Mike. Down to the gendered (color coded outfits).
Maybe El once she learns more about the world and herself can find someone who is a better fit for her later on. Maybe instead of the tired over done trope of 'gay best friend learns to get over crush and move on with epilogue bf '... the Duffers do something subversive instead.
I also want to add that the ending in fan’s heads where Will doesn’t end up with Mike has him paired off with an epilogue boyfriend but the ending where El doesn’t end up with Mike doesn’t have her paired off with anyone.
It shows that people do recognise that Will’s arc is centred around romance in a way that El’s never was.
Will not finding romantic love = bad = because he’s wanted that for so long.
El not finding romantic love = fine = because she had Mike and she’s never shown interest like Will has.
In itself, that depicts how difficult their arcs are and how important romantic love is to each of their characters. They just struggle to make the connection that the romantic love in question is all in relation to Mike. Therefore, let’s rephrase that.
Will not ending up with Mike = bad = because he’s wanted that for so long.
El not ending up with Mike = fine = because she’s never shown interest in him like Will has even when she had him.
El’s arc doesn’t centre around her romantic relationship with Mike but Will’s arc does. That is a key difference.
You know the ironic thing is the same people who say : “ it makes sense for Will to learn the important lesson that first crushes aren’t everything (and it would be better if he ended up happy with an epilogue boyfriend)” would be absolutely irate if El had that ending instead .
Even if it makes WAY MORE SENSE for her narratively. She’s the one who said Mike was her “FIRST boyfriend “.
She’s the one who was making out with Mike the whole summer but in that same season asked Max “how do I know what I like?”
Something she should have learned before dating anyone . And max says in response to not let the men in her life (like Mike) dictate what she likes or chooses . Because “there’s more to life than stupid boys”. Maybe El , a week after getting out of the lab , and learning what a friend was, shouldn't have been kissed and asked out on a date? Right before the 1st kiss she even asked Mike if ‘he’d be her brother’ and asked if they'd go 'as friends' to the snowball. And Mike couldn't even explain how friends/siblings/romantic partners are different before he kissed her.
After Mike kissed her and asked her out, they were then seperated. After this she watched soap operas all day, where the main character rushes into a relationship with a character named Mike Roy. Maybe El [romanticized] what her relationship with Mike wheeler could be like in the future because of this.
ps they weren't endgame in the soap. El was maybe never 'in love' with Mike but the idea of him. (Because she had platonic/familial love for him) and subconsciously wanted to be a normal girl. In s4, she felt like the relationship not working and Mike not saying he loved her , was her fault. Because (in s4) she felt like she “didn’t belong anywhere” and had no friends (in Cali) and struggled to assimilate to a normal life .
She lied to Mike in s4 to keep up the facade of being “normal” cause that’s what she wanted (to be normal and accepted). She wanted to fit-in and belong (and have a boyfriend) like a 'normal girl' .Mike may have represented conformity to El-just like El represented it for Mike. Down to the gendered (color coded outfits).
Maybe El once she learns more about the world and herself can find someone who is a better fit for her later on. Maybe instead of the tired over done trope of 'gay best friend learns to get over crush and move on with epilogue bf '... the Duffers do something subversive instead.
I don't see how anyone watched any of the El/Mike arc and thought it was romantic. It was unhealthy and toxic and SO cringe from the end of season 1 all the way through. It just goes to show that the cishets will ship literally anything M/F coded. the only way to resolve this is to let El find herself through healthy friendships and family before she even considers a romantic partnership again. And I think we've seen plenty of hints that's where she's going. I still have faith in the subversive (read: sensible, obvious) ending because it just makes too much sense at this point to do anything else.
You know the ironic thing is the same people who say : “ it makes sense for Will to learn the important lesson that first crushes aren’t everything (and it would be better if he ended up happy with an epilogue boyfriend)” would be absolutely irate if El had that ending instead .
Even if it makes WAY MORE SENSE for her narratively. She’s the one who said Mike was her “FIRST boyfriend “.
She’s the one who was making out with Mike the whole summer but in that same season asked Max “how do I know what I like?”
Something she should have learned before dating anyone . And max says in response to not let the men in her life (like Mike) dictate what she likes or chooses . Because “there’s more to life than stupid boys”. Maybe El , a week after getting out of the lab , and learning what a friend was, shouldn't have been kissed and asked out on a date? Right before the 1st kiss she even asked Mike if ‘he’d be her brother’ and asked if they'd go 'as friends' to the snowball. And Mike couldn't even explain how friends/siblings/romantic partners are different before he kissed her.
After Mike kissed her and asked her out, they were then seperated. After this she watched soap operas all day, where the main character rushes into a relationship with a character named Mike Roy. Maybe El [romanticized] what her relationship with Mike wheeler could be like in the future because of this.
ps they weren't endgame in the soap. El was maybe never 'in love' with Mike but the idea of him. (Because she had platonic/familial love for him) and subconsciously wanted to be a normal girl. In s4, she felt like the relationship not working and Mike not saying he loved her , was her fault. Because (in s4) she felt like she “didn’t belong anywhere” and had no friends (in Cali) and struggled to assimilate to a normal life .
She lied to Mike in s4 to keep up the facade of being “normal” cause that’s what she wanted (to be normal and accepted). She wanted to fit-in and belong (and have a boyfriend) like a 'normal girl' .Mike may have represented conformity to El-just like El represented it for Mike. Down to the gendered (color coded outfits).
Maybe El once she learns more about the world and herself can find someone who is a better fit for her later on. Maybe instead of the tired over done trope of 'gay best friend learns to get over crush and move on with epilogue bf '... the Duffers do something subversive instead.
Even if Byler doesn't happen, I want Mike and El to break up.
Like in addition to this, I also believe that Mike (atleast in the earlier seasons) only started dating El cause he to some degree sees girls as potential partners and El is, in Lucas' words, the first girl not disgusted by him. It would explain why he's so against max in s2 as well as why he seems to mention El whenever the topic of letting Max into the party would get brought up, like the fact that he doesn't want to date Max, makes the idea of befriending her unnecessary.
Obviously his dislike of Max in the earlier seasons could be because of other stuff too, like him feeling like they were trying to replace El by befirending Max, him being possessive of his friend group or worried that Lucas and Dustin will fight over her (breaking up the friendgroup), but this one makes more sense to me. It also explains how he could start to "like" El before even properly knowing her. Like he knew she was dependent on him, bad at speaking, had magic and liked Eggos. Thats kinda it
I actually discussed this way before s4 premiered, here, but I wanted to re-explore this theory since we now have s4 and s5 part 1. Any movies mentioned in this analysis have been claimed to be inspiration by the ST writers .Significant inspirations for ST, that have been mentioned over and over again, are penny wise (from It) & Freddy Kreuger (from nightmare on elm street) . Like Vecna, they are monsters that make people see nightmares of their worst fears and traumas come to life. Vecna in s4 does this to all of his former victims.
In s5, we also see that Max & Holly are now trapped in Henry's dream-scape of memories . In Elm street 3 (cited by the st writers) a group of friends are trapped by Freddy Kreuger: and initially placed into separate dream-scapes, much like It:chapter 2. I believe once everyone goes in the upside-down , vecna may try to 'divide and conquer' by separating some of the team via illusions . He's already doing something similar with the kids/Max. . If vecna tries to mess with people’s minds - Kali/el will be important to combat that . In the Stranger things VR game vecna attempted to show the main boys their worst fears/traumas. So he may try something like that in s5 to various characters (not just Will & Mike) . There have been many other films cited by the ST writers that also have a similar premise of going into surreal dream-like memories . Maybe that's the metaphorical time travel: the characters going into Henry's mind and nightmarish memories (but also Henry going into their minds/memories as well)?
So how does this relate to Mike? In the recent movie adaption of IT , the creature OUTS a gay character's sexuality to the audience . And this character (played by Finn Wolfhard) was secretly in love with his childhood best friend, while he pretended to be straight prior to this. We even have pennywise cause a zombie boy to flirt with him . And pennywise mocks him saying he knows his "dirty little secret" and how he’s afraid of the “truth” getting out to everyone .Richie is also called a "fairy" by a boy he was playing video games with at the arcade (which connects to the "fairy" comment in s1) . Plus, byler who also went to the arcade: "what did you expect, that we'd never get girlfriends play games for the rest of our lives/we could just play nintendo and games for the rest of our lives"").
I think it's very possible Vena will impersonated Will to mess with Mike (similar to how vecna impersonated Billy, Max's mother , and Lucas to mess with Max psychologically). In the Stranger things VR game vecna attempted to go into Mike's mind and tell him he'd lose El (only to realize that’s not mike's biggest fear). And then the scene transitions to a d&d game table with RAINBOW dice hmmmm.
Frankly, it would make sense for vecna to target Mike since he’s the “leader” and “heart of the party”. Especially since he doesn't have any powers to defend himself. Getting to him would make the team " fall apart" theoretically. And vecna messing with Mike would be a good way to possible re-contextualize past memories / other scenes from the past as well ...such as the snowball.
But , I also see vecna shapeshifting into Mike to mess with Will too (similar to him impersonating Lucas- to hurt Max). Especially if in part 2 Will’s already kidnapped or being controlled by the hivemind.
We even see in s5 part 1 Vecna put in Will's mind , moments related to his heart break over mike as possible foreshadowing.
I think Vecna may try to exploit Will's insecurity over being possibly rejected by Mike due to what happens in IT:chapter 2. Ben/beverly have a lot of parallels to byler. Beverly was poor, an artist, had an ab*sive dad, and in the past was kidnapped by Pennywise so gained psychic abilities (aka same background as Will ). She ends up with Ben her childhood friend, but before that there's a misunderstanding. She thinks a love poem to her was not from Ben but another boy (so she initially dates him instead). And Ben doesn't initially tell her the truth.That sounds familiar: aka the painting lie that hasn't been addressed yet.
Pennywise (in IT) makes Ben see an illusion of Beverly rejecting his confession (before they get together irl). Fake-bev mocks him and states she'd never love him and only saw him as a friend. Fake-bev calls him "gross"(Will said love is “gross”) .And fake-bev says his poem for her is "stupid" (cough Will’s painting for Mike + love making you "crazy/stupid" and Will calling himself "stupid" after fighting with mike in s3). Ben has to remind himself that the real Beverly wouldn't be so cruel with her rejection... and it’s not the real Beverly .
Both Ben/Beverly get trapped in their own nightmares Pennywise causes. And they only break free initially because they hear each other’s voices on the other side. Since Mike has always broken Will from thinking of the ud in s2 and s3 via his voice …this wouldn't surprise me. It’s in character for Mike to help Will break from the UD's control:
Mike may be what breaks the illusion for Will. Or maybe if Will is being used as a weapon in the hive mind - Mike may help break Will free.
Or, it may be Will that helps Mike snap out of vecna’s control first as a role reversal , so Mike can then also rescue Will (aka they save each other). I only say this cause of what happens in ‘IT: chapter 2’. Ben when he thinks he's about to die in the hallucination, calls Bev's name says not to listen to the monster , and admits he loves her and wrote the poem : "my heart is... (cough "you're the heart"). This causes Bev to break through her hallucination and also save Ben from his hallucination in the process.
And of course they don't have any time to discuss this love confession cause they have to help save their friends from Pennywise right after this. HMMM...a gay gal can dream.
Finale be like: “I don’t know what’s on the other side of this"/ "and we kiss as though nothing could fall and the shame was on the other side" .
Also, I think Vecna causing nightmares is maybe how 'birthday gate' comes into play too.
We had in Bill & Ted’s bogus journey: Bill (another name for William) have to deal with a awful bday nightmare .
And Will’s bday was supposed to be in s4 but seemed to be forgotten. In s4, murray brought up a mother forgetting her kid's bday. And In s2 Joyce brought up Will’s birthday. Will in s2 also has a "sorry, I forget your birthday" card in his room. And in s2 Will even talks about the upsidedown with Mike : in front of a "happy birthday" mug. The s4 promotion also had the surfer boy van play happy birthday music. And apparently vecna’s birthday is also on the same day as Will’s? So vecna may bring up the forgotten birthday in s5, whether or not he caused others to forget Will’s bday .
Also there's definitely something weird with birthdays in general. We have a character named victor creel in ST (since xmen was reffed in ep 1 by Will , it may be a easteregg to victor creed). Victor Creed in xmen had a habit of traumatizing people on their birthdays. Which is reminiscent of Lonnie who forced Jonathan to hunt and kill a rabbit on his 10th birthday (which caused him to "cry for a week"). Lonnie did this to jonathan so he'd "be more of a man". Since Lonnie already called Will homophobic slurs -and Will is a proficient shooter. (Lonnie may have done similar things on Will's birthday as well ... to the point Will blocked out or forgot some birthday events in the past) . Maybe he doesn't even like celebrating his b-day because of it? jonathan even handed Will a stack of movies in s2 ( one was the twilight zone film: it also had a bday party with a bunny monster). And Bill & ted bogus adventure also has a dream seq where a character goes 10years into the past when he was a kid : and it involves a monster-bunny, and his little brother crying.
Argyle didn’t call Jonathan’s dad issues a “nightmare-cycle” for nothing… vecna may cause jonathan (or Will) to see a nightmare relating to their dad. It would also echo how Kali made El see papa in a hallucination and she screams "get out of my head!" films like: 'the cell' were about dream-scapes relating to traumatic memories of an ab*sive father. And before Ben broke beverly from her hallucination - the hallucination involved her abusive dad from the past too.
The fact Lonnie is mentioned every season verbally -makes me wonder if he may come back in s5 as a flashback or nightmare via vecna. Especially because Lonnie's actor posted THIS on his socials way back in the day...hmm.
Usually i'd say it's a coincidence but after Lucas' comments it's hard to say...
Alright thanks for listening , I’ll probably post a ‘part 2 theories post' before part 2 comes out on Christmas . Same with part 3 (the finale) :)
Mike liking Will is "obvious" , but Will is missing the signals. And "nobody " ( the general audience) observes the hints either , because most of them are not Sherlock Holmes.
Mike liking Will is "obvious" , but Will is missing the signals. And "nobody " ( the general audience) observes the hints either , because most of them are not Sherlock Holmes.
ok this got me thinking about how memories are going to play into this season- with max being trapped in a loop of vecna’s memories, what if mike ends up in there as well trying to save holly/ what if he ends up in will’s memories somehow since will and vecna are connected? maybe will’s memories from that 8mm film strip are shown to mike, and as he goes through will's life he realizes how many of will's memories they've shared together and this is one of them that makes mike realize that he loves will / will loves him back?
that's just a half-assed theory, but i think at the very least this scene will be replayed as a pivotal memory mike looks back on to realize how he feels about will and how will feels about him. will is outwardly showing affection for mike for the first time, and i think this is the beginning of the "avalanche." and robin knows!!!!
WAIT ok I was thinking about this again. This is a visual representation of a film reel. The colouring of it to me also reminds me a little bit of the dark orangey brown colouring of film reel negatives. This is robins pov, and we believe she has her perspective distorted on their connection right? (The Mike is/is not Tammy debate which shouldn’t need debating) she sees them the opposite way than they actually are - the image is there but the colours aren’t right. The photo isn’t fully developed yet. Also she’s literally in the dark (and while they’re in the light). And she can only see their shadowy side. I could go on. This single shot as a person with even just a little bit of a media analysis background, is just pure perfection and I could honestly write a whole essay about it
I really do think it’s possible m•leven already broke up between seasons since they were paralleled to Vickie/ her bf multiple times in s4. Whether she broke up with her bf at the end of season 4 was also ambiguous (similar to m*leven ) . They compared m*leven to stobin in s3 too. And even paralleled m*leven to Vickie/ Dan & Robin/ Tammy :
M•leven breaking up during the time skip would be in direct contrast to Vickie / robin who got together at that time . Which is interesting since byler was compared to Rockie in s4 too.
It would make more sense for why Will is thinking Mike may be interested in “dating” (if mike’s already single). It would be very odd for Will to try and get m*leven to stay together all of s4 - only to interfere a season later. Could he be pulling a Steve…sure, but that’s seems pretty out of character for him.
As for why Lucas called m•leven “love birds”. Well , this whole group does have a thing for inadvertently pressuring people to get with people (or their exes). It’s not just a Murray thing. Robin/ Eddie last season kept on telling Stancy to get back together ( after they already broke up). While Murray this season is pressuring Jonathan to “lock it down” with Nancy despite Jonathan wanting to "slow motion break up" last season .
Could m*leven still be together, sure. But it would be an interesting reveal if they weren’t . OR- maybe they're going through a "slow motion breakup" like their siblings...
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if we get a flashback to them breaking up. El was spotted at the high school in June 1986, three months after season 4 ended. They can reintroduce the painting at the same time by having it be part of the same conversation, perhaps even the final push they needed to realize there wasn't anything there to hold on to anymore.
