you can't vow an oath to evil and demand respect

Tubular They/Them autistic. my blog for when I want to talk about trans discourse. do not gender me. icon is egon schiele, banner is susan valadon

[tubularnb]

I use they/them pronouns, I am nonbinary and trans-neutral. do not binarize me, and don't gender me.

[stellariantrans]

It’s clear that some trans people genuinely think the only issue with legal definitions equating binary sex and gender are how it affects sex-segregated or gender-segregated spaces.

Nonbinary and intersex people are defined out of existence in almost every anti-trans bill I’ve ever read but so many of y’all only talk about how these bills affect binary perisex trans people. As if you either think these bills have no impact on nonbinary and intersex people, or you think that impact is so unimportant it’s not even worth a footnote.

Defining the legal gender/sex binary has had massive implications and impacts on nonbinary and intersex people. It’s not a “mild side effect” within these bills. These binaries are enforced on purpose to eradicate us.

[the-delta-quadrant]

calling nonbinary people naive (or worse) for "telling the government we're transgender" by getting an x gender marker is a weird way to avoid acknowledging that nonbinary people are uniquely vulnerable and marginalised.

[hotnfreshtakes]

it's so awesome how if you're afab and nonbinary and androgynous and people find out your agab they mentally label you as "basically a cis girl" forever and if you're amab and nonbinary and androgynous and people find out your agab they mentally label you as "basically a trans girl" forever and if you're nonbinary and masculine at all then they mentally label you as "gross creepy man who's faking being trans" regardless of your agab

[noctuusarts]

I feel like many binary people don’t consider that there’s many nonbinary people who regardless of transition could never “pass” as their gender in a binary world. That it’s just impossible because there’s not a social place for our genders, no matter what we do or look like we will at best be seen as confusing and weird or an *insert slur here.*

And we, as said nonbinary people, don’t talk enough about how exhausting it is. That we will never be casually correctly gendered in day to day public life. That’s not something we get to have. It’s get misgendered or try to start a potentially dangerous and overall socially unacceptable dialogue about your gender and pronouns with every person who *might* address you (impossible). And we don’t talk about it for specific reasons. The reasons is exorsexism

[boythingrobot]

I think the trans community would improve dramatically if people acknowledged that men and women aren't solely binary terms that exist on opposite poles of a magnet. That you can be both, either and outside the binary, relate to binary and non-binary at the same time, fluctuate between being a man or a woman, etc, etc. They're not inherently exclusive of each other and they're absolutely not opposites that can't coexist at the same time.

[thatrwbyenby]

Talk more about the issues non-binary people face, I am no longer asking.

Talk about how most of us can never legally transition because even if legal transition is an option it's typically restricted to the binary.

Talk about how even non-binary gender markers which seem like the solution actually force us into a double bind of either misgendering ourselves constantly or outing ourselves constantly.

Talk about how there is no way to "pass" as non-binary and that the only way to be stealth is to be closeted one way or the other.

Talk about how "non-binary" as a term was meant to be an umbrella term for a myriad of gender identities but was forcibly homogenized into one "third gender" by others.

Talk about how the MOGAI movement which sought to give names to the wide breadth of gender identity and experience was relentlessly mocked both by transphobes and other trans people alike, abandoned by our own communities because our identities were "too weird."

Talk about the slur "theyfab" and its misogynistic and transmisogynistic usage. Talk about how it contributes to the rampant erasure of amab non-binary people and treats all non-binary people as "whiny little wome- i mean afabs."

Talk about exorsexism. Talk about oppositional sexism. Talk about how they hurt us, how they hurt all trans people.

[bowlingwithroman]

"theyfab isn't a slur! it's just a pejorative to denigrate people based on both their gender identity and their assigned gender at birth!"

[chimera-summer]

I think if you make statements like "AFAB nonbinary people always xyz" or "AFAB intersex people have a habit of zyx" you're just a plain misogynist because tell me why... tell me why when it comes to groups consisting of people who typically do not share their AGAB you just happen to "know" the people who disagree with you are always AFAB. And if you reduce people to their alleged AGAB I know for a fact you just use "AFAB" to mean "womanesque" regardless of reality so like can we just be serious

People love complaining about Those Damn AFABs like comrade are you self aware at all of how you sound

[noctuusarts]

I feel like many binary people don’t consider that there’s many nonbinary people who regardless of transition could never “pass” as their gender in a binary world. That it’s just impossible because there’s not a social place for our genders, no matter what we do or look like we will at best be seen as confusing and weird or an *insert slur here.*

And we, as said nonbinary people, don’t talk enough about how exhausting it is. That we will never be casually correctly gendered in day to day public life. That’s not something we get to have. It’s get misgendered or try to start a potentially dangerous and overall socially unacceptable dialogue about your gender and pronouns with every person who *might* address you (impossible). And we don’t talk about it for specific reasons. The reasons is exorsexism

[transandrogyny--turtlebug]

I'm gonna start saying "especially non binary ppl" when talking about trans issues. Trans people are really struggling, especially non binary ppl, because we're treated like jokes and freaks in our own communities. I'm kind of sick and tired of things being "especially" about everyone else but us

[transandrogyny--turtlebug]

Non binary people are treated like the scapegoats of the trans community, everything is our fault. We're too loud, to assertive, too annoying, too cringe. Too out there, we are visibly trans a lot of the time, and that pisses people the fuck off because we like it and it's a part of our gender identity and expression. We are just as oppressed and face just as much violence as everyone else

[ghostboyravenight-deactivated20]

Hate it when people say “these new laws in place affect all trans people especially [insert binary identity]” when literally trans laws don’t even include non-binary people in the first place. Inaccessibility to gender affirming care affects all trans people, especially non-binary people who aren’t even allowed access anyway if they’re not going through a binary transition. Bathroom bills affect all trans people, especially non-binary people because there are still only two gendered bathroom that they’re forced to use, both of which are potentially hostile because not every non-binary person can or wants to pass as a binary gender. Enforced gender markers affect all trans people, especially non-binary people because they either have to pick a gender marker that misgenders them or they have to take the risk of using the very visibly trans marker “X” which could put them in danger of harassment and discrimination by any official who chooses to target them.

Like, it feels like the current goals for trans liberation have returned to such a binary place, which means non-binary people are left out entirely despite being so targeted by anti-trans legislation that they’re written out of basic human rights laws more than any other trans person.

[tubularnb]

Limiting replies for a while because I need to stop arguing lmao

[tubularnb]

I like arguing with people it seems 🤝.

[razortouched]

On a purely theoretical level, another reason why trans male privilege doesn't make sense is because it would inherently break the foundational structure of patriarchal systems.

Socially enforced gender roles are key to enforcing the patriarchy. Its why we're all assigned genders at birth and raised with social expectations based on those genders (for the most part).

The subjugation of women requires that there be no possible way for women to leave their roles of subjugation. That's why, historically, there were numerous methods to ensure that women continued to be property to their fathers or husbands. Can't get a job, can't have a bank account, can't buy property, can't vote. Hell, even the lack of public women's restrooms was another way to ensure women could never leave home for long periods.

If people could instantly escape misogyny by transitioning, and gain male privilege, there would be a relatively straightforward way for people assigned female at birth to escape subjugation. This cannot be allowed by the patriarchy. Its not like there's any exception in abortion laws for trans men. Its not like someone who believes women are property is suddenly gonna respect you when you tell them you identify as a man.

Its a huge part of the reason why trans people are so hated. If you can transcend socially enforced gender... how do you keep enforcing gender? How do you continue subjugating people?

It just doesn't work that way.

[tubularnb]

It is also frustrating to me that my posts about exorsexism get far less engagement than my Transandrophobia posts. It feels sometimes that both sides of the discourse are very interested in a binary/non transneutral view of it, that benefits themselves. Either that or they do not think to actively seek out discussions on exorsexism because it's seen as transandrophobia lite™ (Which is Horseshit btw)

It's also deeply frustrating when exorsexists are allowed to say completely terrible things about us but its ok because we are making a mockery of being transgender. It's ok because we're "theyfab". It's ok because we're trenders.

That's what it feels like anyways, we're an easy target. And yes this includes exorsexism against people who identify as MOGAI.

[tubularnb]

I do not like how asserting that Transandrophobia exists is assumed to be anti transfeminist. Treating it like MRAs in response to Feminism- which reduces the arguments to bad actors instead of a genuine exploration of gendered dynamics and how that affects trans men.

People who talk about Transandrophobia are not trying to disprove transfeminism, nor diminish the (very serious) affects of systemic transmisogyny. And the way some people rush to devalue these opinions because of some surface level similarities to MRAs is... Deeply annoying.

It's frustrating the way these two ideologies are treated as though they cannot coexist and interact with each other. And the way there's so much actually virulent discourse over what is essentially semantics.

[tubularnb]

The FBI got to you if you think that the semantics of the terms transmisandry is an important point to make.

[tubularnb]

I do not like how asserting that Transandrophobia exists is assumed to be anti transfeminist. Treating it like MRAs in response to Feminism- which reduces the arguments to bad actors instead of a genuine exploration of gendered dynamics and how that affects trans men.

People who talk about Transandrophobia are not trying to disprove transfeminism, nor diminish the (very serious) affects of systemic transmisogyny. And the way some people rush to devalue these opinions because of some surface level similarities to MRAs is... Deeply annoying.

It's frustrating the way these two ideologies are treated as though they cannot coexist and interact with each other. And the way there's so much actually virulent discourse over what is essentially semantics.