How would a Deltarune boss rush go? (using Hollow knight Pantheons as a format)
this boss rush is going to be planned with Chapters as a guide
All chapter 1 bosses -> chapter 2, etc.
imagine each chapter is a Pantheon from Hollow knight as a good example
You could use either all bosses from each chapter or just the strongest version for this. It will be using whatever I consider to be unique enough to be counted (the berdly fights being different enough will the K. rounds aren't)
Secret bosses will only be in the Pantheons if you fought them during the chapter (or got their shadow crystal from the wall)
Each pantheon will also end in a hypothetical additional boss (like the bonus ones from Hollow Knight)
This is less a theory more speculation, I guess / theoretical scenario
First things first, they probably aren't going to be in Castle Town (excluding Pink, who is also the only secret boss that seems to be in Castle Town, and I guess Seam might end up being a boss, but ehh).
especially since that last scene with them all screamed "YOU ARE NOT MEETING THEM AGAIN" and "THESE ARE NOT BEING RECRUITED" and "WITHOUT ASGORE THEY ARE PROBABLY GOING TO DIE".
Unfortunately, in the actual game, at best Susie will have a one-off line about how the flowers are doing / they need to be taken care of. At worst, we'll see the flowers wilt and die due to both Susie and Kris lacking green thumbs.
BUT what if since every chapter castle tower appears to be getting a new building (music studio, TV studio and the church), we get two things: an extension to the cafe to allow for chapter 5 interactions with both the flowers and already recruited major Darkners (Lancer, Queen, tenna if not given away, MAYBE secret bosses) and a hospital, which is where Flowery will be kept?
This is because Flowery is almost guaranteed to be a parallel to Rudy, and where is Rudy for 90% of his screen time? Bedbound in a hospital (ignoring Knight identity debate), the rest of the flowers simply share a room in the castle or
To be fair, even though I don't fully believe in the flowers getting to come to Castle Town, I think we might actually get a new building that allows for the Chapter 5 Cafe interactions with some of our recruits and each other, maybe the building is run by Pink, which is what she does in the Dark World. This means we get to see more funnier Darkner interactions (before everyone probably dies during either Chapter 7 or the end of Chapter 6, assuming we see the roaring occur).
Chapter 1 - King (lancer is debatable)
Chapter 2 - Queen
Chapter 3 - Tenna
Chapter 4 - ???
Chapter 5 - Obvious, but not saying to avoid spoilers
Old man would be obvious but he's also the secret boss, which puts him in that group mainly instead
Jackenstein works but also seems a bit too minibossy but also he's the one who dies if you don't recruit enough
The Titan is the final boss but also not even really a character
Ignoring Knight debates they also seem a bit too important to be "the main chapter 4 darkner" since, y'know, main antagonist and all
The MIKES???? - notable darkners who are technically the final "darkners" you fight in the chapter (if you do their fight last) but everything else also points to them being more "secret boss" group instead. (it would also be really weird)
vote.
Old Man
Jackenstein
The Titan
The Knight
I guess the Mikes?
Someone else (please comment)
Voting ended onJun 30
Currently leaning Jackenstein due to the old man being the secret boss instead.
Chapter 6 is going to be the Holiday home, because it allows for greater depth of Dess and allows Carol to take a main antagonistic route, and Rudy is why we have to go there.
Noelle is probably not going to get to go to Castle Town due to Carol blaming Susie for Noelle not being there for Rudy when he "fell down" if this means either him being severely injured or actually "falling down" in Undertale terms and being about to die. Both work.
Chapter 7 -
The weird route has confirmed the existence of "7B", which seems more different than just a weird route version of another chapter (seen with 5's weird route being... like that)
So in the regular route chapter 7, we get the final piece of code from Carol in the Holiday home, and we go to the shelter. This is where we get the Dess story, probably FRIEND, and the entire angel's final tragedy, which we might learn from Carol in 6. This will be the ending of the game.
BUT in the weird route, in my opinion, Noelle has broken the prophecy with chapter 5 and at least killed herself and Kris and potentially the soul, but I don't see the soul needing to breathe. BUT obviously that isn't the end of the weird route. We know it continues into chapter 7, which will be the depths; this chapter will be where Gaster is explained, as we have gone out of bounds to a place we weren't supposed to, a place that the soul itself couldn't reach even if it tried.
Beyond the lake is probably Gaster-related due to NormalNPC (weird blue bird thing who mentions things like G, Undertale currency, and is in general up to something) and the fact he probably killed Onionsan, who tried investigating beyond the lake and is an NPC that stops lake interactions under certain circumstances, and that guy is absolutely related to Gaster or at least something greater. Gaster is related to 666, and Kris and Noelle killed a bunch of darkners and then died; they end up in Deltarune's hell, the depths, instead of whatever the angel's heaven is (even if we haven't gotten any in-universe correlation between the two, it makes sense from a meta standpoint)
Additionally, Sans is vital to the 5 weird routes; not only can he not be skipped, but he also has the bread, which appears to be a direct reference to a glitch in MOTHER that allows you to go out of bounds. Sans also appears to be from the weird route, specifically in Undertale, as Susie only draws three people in the weird route but four in regular (even though it feels weird Undertale wouldn't say "Sans and two smiling people" instead of just "three smiling people") and sans is somehow connected to Gaster; that is essentially true at this point, whatever the relation is.
7B might even be the only chapter to not have either Susie or Ralsei in or maybe not even Kris or Noelle if both of them died and you play as the vessel (or even more tragically, just Kris dies and you play as Noelle controlled by the soul)
I don't think even in the best-case scenario Kris or Noelle "survived" so unless 7B is just going to be a Bad ending cutscene with Susie I don't think the stories will end the same
Also, there is the chance the bunker and depths are the same thing, which would lead to just a remixed chapter, but the weird route is now skipping entire chapters. I think it's fair to assume a level of a different chapter completely; it's not that far-fetched.
So those are current thoughts on the upcoming dark worlds...
Uhh, the next awesome theory – flowers in castle town
DELTARUNE SPOILERS – the "freedom gang" after chapter 5
or technically the "Battat MOtif" gang
This is a really funny group of characters and i need a fanfic of them all in castle town causing problems for everyone else
The primary members are all relatively obvious
But for Kris, it makes sense, right? I can't be the only person who associates Kris with them specifically, right? (barring old man being way more related to Susie, but that's just another trend he breaks hehe)
Secondary members -
RAMB – This also just makes sense, right? If I had to pick a single character to represent Chapter 3's secret boss, it would be RAMB, even if none of the three fulfils all requirements
ERAM - I just like the idea of it being a tiny bat creature pestering Kris and the group.
The Mikes – Could be tertiary, but they are far more connected to the secret nonsense than the second group of three characters, who just have the freedom motif, + I guess realistic Mike is here as well
Seam – Chapter 6 secret Seam boss fight incoming... even if that doesn't happen, it makes sense for them to be here as well by association, even if they don't technically meet any requirements
Tertiary members -
The Knight – it's a bit weird to call the main antagonist of the game a part of the "secret boss group" but the chance that gave out the Crystals and even having chapter 3's crystal means they have to be mentioned
Blue Rudinn - something's up with this guy
Trashy Trio – have the freedom motif, but none of the connection to any greater mystery
...
...
FRIEND - IDK what's up with the horrid cat from hell to be honest; it probably deserves a mention, same with, like, GASTER or ECHIDNA if you think they exist.
Also, why is exclusively Pink the only one who seemingly gets to go to Castle Town?
I mean, JEvil and Spamton make sense, I guess, but they can transform into your inventory when you leave. The old man could have been brought if Susie weren't a coward, AND WHY THE HELL WASN'T JACKENSTEIN IN MY CASTLE TOWN? HE DIDN'T DIE, SUSIE JUST... COULDN'T FIND HIM!
During this chapter we get the full story and what happend to dess and kris from Asgore's perspective
this introduces both FRIEND and puts a bigger spotlight onto Dess
this is the point where the dess knight becomes and bigger point for casual players / players who did analysis every single detail before release and means that it sets up FRIEND for a future chapter 6 or even 7 boss fight
(main boss of 6)
(mini/mid boss of 7)
due to right now, FRIEND is a character that the only "obvious" foreshadowing of is the chapter 3 appearance and the tail of hell / decoded organic message. So giving them the actual focus build-up in 5 makes more sense than just dropping them into 5 as a boss.
Maybe they'll even be a reoccurring character who just doesn't get a fight but still torments you in the dark world or even the light world post-fountain sealing (Assuming the fountain gets sealed).
Suppose I'm back again. Warning about text once again below the cut
This time covering 7 more theoreticals and some Much more in-depth character analyses (actual movesets and dialogue)
recruits –
Taxidermy, Antoine + friends, Stuart, Gracie and Clyde
in-depth party member –
masked shadow + Jeanne
New characters and how to recruit them!
Taxidermy -
Enter the apartment as usual; however, DO NOT take anything. Leave all of the taxidermy items and objects alone. You can take the shrunken head and enter further in.
However, once you enter that area and go to leave the apartment, Taxidermy will be blocking the door and will 'ask' you to return his items you have taken. If you do, they will move out of the way, and you can leave.
Returning later on, Taxidermy will have stitched you an improved piece of armour and will offer more to you if you can bring him more materials... in the form of his other creations, who have escaped due to him being distracted while creating your armour
The enemies of the taxidermist's apartment are now found around the building, fighting you, then returning upon defeat. once all of them have been returned, Taxidermy has given you an improved set of armour and can be recruited.
Antionie / Esther / Noah -
After Antionie rushes you into his apartment, you can enter a brief dialogue with him, and if you mention video games, he will start quizzing you on them (Dan will give you hints through mocking comments about the games, while Cursed Dan will give you actual hints).
If answered well enough, Antionie will offer to join you, as you clearly know your stuff.
But eventually, when returning to your apartment, Antionie will ask you to go retrieve some of his stuff, and a side quest much like Leigh's or Dan's will begin. After returning to his apartment, you will find both Esther and Noah complaining at Antionie for skipping on them for their marathon before attacking, with Esther once again complaining about being hungry. During the fight, if you use one of many items dictated as "food", then Esther will stop and demand some, preferring sugary treats to things such as leftovers. Noah will also demand some as well after if both are fed enough, then they won't devour the other one, and both can be recruited once calmed down, acting as an Xaria/Monty combo.
Okay, three shorter ones now
Clyde -
Clyde can be recruited by having enough firearms within your inventory when engaging him AND a child; then, after a conversation about both how cool guns are and how cute both of your children are, he will join.
Gracie –
Gracie will join you upon visiting your apartment will have enough roommates, (6-ish?), as she will see the number of people here and conclude they need a dedicated medic, as you're clearly helping out other people, so by working together, you both can benefit.
Stuart -
After the cave collapses and Audrey has met Stuart, he will have a side quests getting machine parts from the car park, either by looting abandoned cars or fighting the various cursed car monsters, he will build Audrey an "ultimate weapon", majorly improving her stats, but it will break upon Audrey being knocked out, but he can repair it for a price
After this is built, however, returning to him a day later will reveal him under attack from an aggressive curse; if you ignore this, he dies a day later (kinda like Ernest and Rat Hell), but helping him will convince him it's not safe where he is, and he will join your apartment.
So that's 7 more people added to the apartment, but now I want to go into much greater detail on two previous members and see how they would function as actual party members.
MASKED SHADOW - Expanded
Recruitment – Same as normally in-game to get them as a roommate but now they can join you
Role - Support Tank
Equipment – Head, Accessory, Jewellery
Abilities -
Staring contest – The shadow stares blankly at the enemies, having a chance to inflict several layers of fear onto them.
Many-handed hug - Envelop an ally into yourself, protecting them from harm for a few turns but having a chance to apply fear to that ally.
Hidden assistance – The Shadow pulls out a random object from its cloak. This object will do... something: heal, cure a status, do nothing or sometimes potentially harm.
Mirror image - Copy whatever action Sam did this turn.
Cloak of nothingness – The shadow attempts to fully envelop the enemy within themselves, either ending the fight or dealing massive damage. It always succeeds against non-boss shades but has a lower chance against most other foes.
Dialogue –
The gift system is still in place but now you can talk to them to a much greater extent
How are you doing?
[any negative issue is affecting them.] - The shadow shakes its head side to side.
[When Fine] The shadow nods its head up and down.
We're friends, right?
The shadow nods its head up and down, it's always good to set boundaries.
Did you look outside? + What do you think will happen?
The Shadow thinks about it and then shrugs.
What did you do before this?
The shadow darts its eyes around before focusing on you... you're not sure what that means.
Manage Party -
Join Party
The shadow nods up and down before it starts following you
Stay Behind
The Shadow nods and returns to its... watching?
You need to leave
The shadow tilts its head at you, seemingly confused.
[if confirmed] The shadow looks downtrodden before slowly shuffling out of your apartment.
A second rose will be found on your doorstep the following day
Jeanne - Extended Concept
Recruitment – Follow her questline normally, including the jacket scene, and then offer her to join you. She'll need you to find a way of moving her body. This can be done by either fixing the elevator and helping move her body or having Leigh at your party to teach Jeanne how to move in her new form. (only her main head is following through your adventure through a hole in the ceiling.)
Role - Damage-dealing tank
Equipment – melee, ranged, body, head, accessory, jewellery.
passive - When not in your party, Jeanne will slowly heal, assuming she isn't hungry
Abilities -
Gaping maw – Jeanne attempts to bite down on an enemy, dealing damage... but she's quite inexperienced with it causing her to start crying if she Kills an enemy
Coil – Jeanne coils around an enemy, preventing them from moving and dealing damage, but in return Jeanne takes damage each turn and has to continue to coil to keep the enemy wrapped up.
Uncontrollable Growth – Jeanne sacrifices Stamina to heal herself; if done, and she is overhealed, it instead grows another head. This head randomly attacks both enemies and allies alike.
Tear Head – If another head is grown, Jeanne can tear it off, taking damage but removing the head.
Trap – Jeanne can lie herself across the ground for a turn, meaning if an enemy moves closer, they trip, becoming stunned
Unrivalled nerves – due to her life as a biker (and certain other recent experiences), Jeanne can steel her nerves, becoming immune to mental effects for several turns and curing any she currently has.
Dialogue –
How are you doing?
J - A lot better now... at least I know other people can stop any more heads trying to grow.
Did you look outside?
J - No? Well, I didn't see whatever was causing this, only direct exposure when I was on my balcony.
What do you think will happen?
J- I don't know; I doubt I'll fit on my bike anymore. Maybe I could get a really big sidecar? I'll have to think about it.
What did you do before this?
J - I was in a biker gang. Couldn't you tell based on my sick outfit? Haha, don't worry, we didn't do anything... too bad, only a bit of chaos here and there...
Manage party –
Join party.
J – Don't worry, I'll try to follow you the best I can.
Stay behind
J - Okay, see you later.
You need to leave, Jeanne.
Leave? Your apartment? I guess I could head back to mine...
[if confirmed]
Y-yeah, I get it. I'm still a potential danger... I'll be back at my apartment. See you, [PLAYER]. (Jeanne takes ages getting her body back out the door).
Look Outside theoretical Companion tier list + explanation PART 2 (not everyone, since this has greatly involved in my mind)
Spoilers, obviously, for Look Outside 2.0 and 2.01, since something happened I wasn't expecting within it.
so everyone on the tiers that weren't covered that aren't being saved
FaceTaker – requires killing every Fred, including the real Fred, and also convincing Face Taker you know he's the Face Taker, but being chill enough, maybe working like Spine, where it's a fight but not killing them allows you to talk it out and recruit them after.
Or it could be Phillipe part 2, as he instead pretends to be the real Fred and joins you, slightly freaking out about the situation, or maybe he is actually your friend.
Tumour – IDK, it's cruel to not kill this guy, right? And getting him to move and fight for you just seems cruel, but I guess giving him like 30x painkillers, he can be taken out once, and he completely sucks in combat, essentially a joke companion
The Teeth Family
for Clint, attack one of his family members, and then after that, he snaps out of it and joins you
For Madison, avoid her, and then when Baby Teeth attacks, you can lead her into the Baby Teeth fight, making her realise you're not her children and join you after feeling like she's failed two children and needs to save the final one.
Baby teeth & Ben – Recruiting all 3 members and entering teeth hell leads to the final fight with Baby Teeth (added in 2.01), and Ben and Baby Teeth do whatever they do in-game, and now Ben is interactable within the apartment again, as the room itself, and is chill. Additionally, he tells you about how Baby Teeth is doing and has hopefully calmed down.
Wilhelmina – there was a glitch that allowed you to fight her several times and get all her weapons, so doing that as a mechanic adds a few dialogues, and assuming you do the fights with Morton, she gets so mad she stops fighting you and demands to join you, claiming "to prove her linguistically superiority once again," and then Morton calls her out again, and she shuts up and joins.
Rat King / Fabrice* - K N E E L and then win the fight, but instead of killing him, you gain the option to spare him, and after ,he K N I G H T S you, he gives you rusty badges which allow you to talk to the rats without the crown. As his personal guard, he commands you to go fulfil his people's requests, and several smaller side quests are unlocked for different rat characters, and once 3 of those have been completed, he joins you, as the royal guard never leaves the king.
Edwin / STARGAZER - Lose to him; doing so will begin a cutscene where he tries to remake you. Resist, keep resisting, DO NOT LET HIM. Eventually, he doesn't give up, PER SE, but instead watches you; he doesn't join you yet. Instead, he can be seen following you as doors will open by themselves, much like in his apartment
. To actually recruit him, you need to recruit Spine fully. Talk to the four astronomers, and return several pieces of equipment from around the apartment to him; afterwards, he'll somewhat regain consciousness and conclude you'll be remade after doing what the other people he vaguely recognises want you to do, becoming recruitable.
Don't ask how he becomes visible permanently. It just happens; I guess the visitor is weird
Spore Mother (& Sylvain, Jean-Pierre & Claire) - requires recruiting Phillipe, after returning to your apartment Phillipe will ask you to return to the princess to make sure she's dead and he's safe doing so will allow you to find the Princess's remains or spore of something like that ( a noticeable amount of the spores have rotted by now showing she has died) taking this back and using a bigger pot found in the plant apartment allows sam to ressurect the Spore Mother, now called the Spore Princess, now talking as she's technically alive, initiate Phillipe conversation MK 2, and she needs to grow more and after growing even more, you can bring the remians of the other three to here and, in combination with items specific to that spore creature, resurrect them, those 3 being the party members, with the Spore Mother never joining you as a party memver.
The funny part is Spore Mother is actually chill with Sam & Co., while the other 4 are freaking out about being murdered any second now when people realise the jig is up or Papineau gets tired of their continued presence.
And that is everyone!
additional notes –
Wow, that is a lot of companions for Sam; his apartment is not enough... if only we had a secondary apartment right next to Sam's... with only one person currently living there... OH WAIT, SYBIL!
After unlocking Sybil's apartment, someone in your apartment breaks through the wall, allowing quick access and more party members to be recruited. Jasper and the other astronomers will never enter Sybil's apartment because some force is stopping them...
Also, Edwin will make a mini area of Meat World in your apartment, allowing you to talk to him and Spine normally; they can still be sensed invisibly, however.
ALSO, because this is already out of hand, you can find paints around the apartment and based on what paints you give to whatever Fred's you recruited, you can repaint the other ones (This is now the premier way of recruiting Shadow and Toxic Fred ) (also, Faceless/Real freaks out when you do this, with him. Does that means none of the Freds are the real one anymore)
FINAL RESULT -
Damn, Sam really has this apartment wrapped around his finger, doesn't he? (excluding children and non-Sapient animals, obviously)
Uhh, Part 3, or interactions, prob doing both in someway
Part 3: LET'S GET THE ENTIRE APARTMENT INVOLVED! (Suggest who below, I guess).
Interactions that will probably suck (suggest a few)
Interactions, but spin a wheel to see who the interaction is between
Look Outside theoretical Companion tier list + explanation PART 1
Spoilers for major characters and endings, probably for look outside 2.0 below (also a lot of text)
Look outside characters based on if they could become a companion theoretically -
So first, with enough changes, every character could become a companion, every single enemy could be pacified in some way, but that wasn't the intention of this list
Additionally, Mutt's customers, the cursed hideout group and David's kids are all included with him (Except Emanuel)
And this isn't me demanding more companions or anything. If more get added, I'm not complaining, but this is for fun
Also, I feel several ranks don't require explanation, so I won't (the obvious meanings)
Already a Roommate Easy –
all three of these just need a moveset and 3 new companions done (in order of difficulty of that)
Already a roommate hard -
Add Sam's plant into this, and these two just have a lot more limited options.
Would be RM, not PM –
Both of these wouldn't be full party members and you would have to work for Spider Husk, but they would just be more roommates
Could be a PM without much issue
Harriet + Beryl + Aurelius - could be added that they can join your party now, and I wouldn't be surprised
Jasper - harder to recruit than Beryl/Aurelius, but still easily plausible
Real + scared Fred – leave as the last Fred standing, and they join your apartment just like wriggly does (scared may be more of an RM)
Emmanuel – after giving him enough tapes, he would offer to join, as you clearly know, good music
issues, but not many –
Jeanne - purely a logic issue, not an issue with Jeanne joining you. Maybe she has to use a head in the ceiling or something, but other than that, she would join you if she could
"Cursed" morton - if you don't open the door, I'm pretty sure he returns to normal in the base game anyway on a revisit
Pierre – The new final step of getting over the fear is Pierre staying with Sam. Sam has a horrible time.
Godhead + bright – bright has movement issues, and godhead seems more reluctant to actually join me
Spine – I saw a really funny idea of using the dinosaur fursuit to fully cover Spine, but all she needs is a way of not dying outside of Meat World, which once she has that, she can join you fully.
Cinnamon - has a similar mechanic to Rat baby about taking care of her; if you take good enough care of her, she doesn't attack you, and she becomes an ally
Major changes –
Bitey Fred – could be moved down, but I feel he just had more issues than the previous Freds
Shadow + Toxic – requires a greater Jump of logic than the others to conclude they would join you
Cursed Dan and Harriet – both major hostility changes, or some way of changing their aggressiveness, maybe by feeding Dan enough bone items or someone showing Harriet that Sophie is safe with you?
Mr Henderson/landlord – simply save him from the hands or use enough healing items on him. The major changes come from the fact that an entirely new path for the Disc and area would most likely be needed, and a significant area of the game would be skipped.
Summer – I don't think you kill summer herself... my fight with her glitched out, so maybe if you clean up all the trash and enemies in her apartment after a few days, she'll be willing to leave, and you need to find a helmet for her to be able to travel and she'll probably take up either the sink or shower so you lose access to one of those Or she could just move, I guess
Steve - IDK should probably be a tier higher and Cinnamon a tier lower, but he seems harder to recruit than most, as he does at least attack on sight without food, but just give him enough bandages or use enough dust, and he'll join.
the two pink tiers
have to try really hard and Insane idea will both be explained in a Part 2, as they need more explanation, and the insane ideas like Spore Mother would be complete story changes (also it's almost midnight for me as I'm writing this)
Also might give a few previously mentioned greater detail, such as Harriet and the astronomers.
