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@wordsmithic
Happy Pride Month to all of my fellow aces!! 🖤🩶🤍💜
i do have to say that no matter how shitty any sort of media is or how shitty your own creations are. always remember
This guy is absolutely right. How can you "reclaim" voices from a culture that's not yours?? Ancient Greek women are not from your own culture - if you even recognize that Greek culture is its own culture, separate from yours.
On top of that, those authors have no idea about the History of Greek women. We have a voice of our own and you are not trying to amplify it. You just pretend you care so you can get your fame and money.
Oh snap that's me
I made some great points ngl I do fully believe you can write for any religion/Mythology that's not your own I would be a MASSIVE hypocrite if I said otherwise just be very mindful when you are adapting the stories and names and gods and locations
Again great video and very handsome
Hahahaahah hi I didn't know you were on Tumblr too! In one of the reblogs I also added that one can write about many other cultures as long as they have a good understanding and they are respectful about it. (Also who am I going to Sensitivity read for otherwise? a Greek has to make money somehow in this publishing landscape)
Also just saying if you're interested in series with themes and characters inspired by mythology and folklore for it's setting consider checking out this cartoon I (The guy in the video) made with more in development
I do A LOT of research behind these characters and the inspiration behind them and while I do play with the stories they're inspired by I try really hard to not hijack any culture
@greayworks that looks cool! Many different characters, some references to Greek Myth, and an intriguing villain! It sounds like the voice actors had fun, too!
i understand words and phrases. my dialogue is natural and in character. i know where the plot is going. my word count is reasonable. i am not scared of my document
A solid gold Minoan pendant depicting two bees clutching a honeycomb, Old Palace cemetery at Chrysolakkos near Malia, Crete, 1800-1700 BCE.
Andromeda with her friends Hurriya and Bintanat
Hey did you guys know Andromeda had (unnamed so I gave them names) friends? They make up the chorus of Euripides lost play “Andromeda”, they mourn for her and keep her company when she was chained to a rock to be sacrificed, some fragments (from Loeb Library):
F 117:
(To the chorus)
Andromeda: Dear maidens, my friends…
F 118:
Andromeda: Hallo, do you hear? I appeal to you in the cave -leave off, Echo, and let me mourn as I long to with my friends.
F 122:
Do you see? not in dancing choruses nor among girls of my age do I stand holding my voter’s funnel, but entangled in close bonds I am presented as food for the monster Glaucetes,
The Odyssey character designs ✨
This guy is absolutely right. How can you "reclaim" voices from a culture that's not yours?? Ancient Greek women are not from your own culture - if you even recognize that Greek culture is its own culture, separate from yours.
On top of that, those authors have no idea about the History of Greek women. We have a voice of our own and you are not trying to amplify it. You just pretend you care so you can get your fame and money.
Oh snap that's me
I made some great points ngl I do fully believe you can write for any religion/Mythology that's not your own I would be a MASSIVE hypocrite if I said otherwise just be very mindful when you are adapting the stories and names and gods and locations
Again great video and very handsome
Hahahaahah hi I didn't know you were on Tumblr too! In one of the reblogs I also added that one can write about many other cultures as long as they have a good understanding and they are respectful about it. (Also who am I going to Sensitivity read for otherwise? a Greek has to make money somehow in this publishing landscape)
This guy is absolutely right. How can you "reclaim" voices from a culture that's not yours?? Ancient Greek women are not from your own culture - if you even recognize that Greek culture is its own culture, separate from yours.
On top of that, those authors have no idea about the History of Greek women. We have a voice of our own and you are not trying to amplify it. You just pretend you care so you can get your fame and money.
Okay I need to point one thing out though. E.S. McLeod's Andromeda is a story about blackness, they're reclaiming Andromeda's story because Andromeda was black (and Ethiopian, not Greek), and was constantly whitewashed through the ages. This is absolutely a case of reclamation happening! It's a black author reclaiming a narrative about a black character.
About E.S. McLeod's Andromeda: "Black" is not a global culture. The author is Black but she's not from the cultures that are included in her book. I understand that having Black representation matters and I don't disregard that. However, since the video talks about culture: it's still not her culture to write, or women to "rescue". Especially considering her proximity to British culture, education, and approach to the Greek myths.
I need you to know that it is part of black diasporic culture to have aspects of a myriad of different african cultures ingrained into our own cultures. It is the way our history was formed. I can also mention the notion of panafricanism, which preaches for cultural exchange and unity between the different black cultures spread across the globe.
Hi! Let me chime in because I've started reading the book. I don't think anyone here denies the ties of the Black diaspora to Africa, even as part of a long heritage. To be clear, the author didn't necessarily have to be from this area to represent it correctly. With respect and understanding, proper representation is possible.
Where my disagreement lies is her distance from the cultures she aims to represent, and the claim that her skin tone alone makes her suitable for that.
For different reasons, Mediterraneans - like the Greeks - carry the culture of many other people in their heritage, either by proximity or by direct genealogical lines. Our culture and language have been shaped through millennia by many other languages and cultures (and sometimes by those who colonized us). However, this does not make a Greek automatically fit to represent an Egyptian story, even if they look exactly like the average Egyptian, even if their great-great-grandfather was an Egyptian (and many Greeks have those ties to Egypt). It does not make an Egyptian automatically fit to represent Greek culture either.
The author calls herself "a proud South Londoner". Which is fine, but it's undeniable that she is British and that she IS very immersed in the British society and education system. The British have been misrepresenting Greek stories for entertainment for centuries and still owns military bases on Greek ground, refusing to let go of old colonial conquests. The country instills in all its citizens certain education and social cues, no matter their "race". This author, even if disadvantaged in some ways in the UK, still holds a larger proximity to the Western big publishing houses compared to Greeks, Egyptians, and Sudanese people who live in their respective countries.
I am personally aware of Panafricanism. But even the Africans who see themselves related to other African neighbors will deny that the thousands of cultures and languages across this huge continent that is Africa can be claimed by one person. (Especially one who is a British citizen through and through) "Aspects of" is not the same as having an automatic right to be taken as the authority for representation of all possible cultures on the continent. We all have aspects of at least ten other cultures within our own culture, through exchange, or colonization.
One more note to conclude: Even on the cultural representation, this book lacks severely, to put it mildly. Onto examples from the book itself:
Athena, a Greek goddess, speaks to mortals about her desire to act violently toward another god, Poseidon. Not how the Greek gods work. If you don't understand why, then you don't understand Greek culture - same as the author.
Another odd thing in the same sentence: Poseidon is supposed to have a claim to Andromeda because he has a connection to the amniotic fluid...??? Because... water??? That's... not how the Greek religion/culture has ever worked?? That's a confusing ass-pull, already from chapter 1.
Right afterwards, same page: "Medusa did not suffer the consequences of dangerous looks". Oh, so we are disregarding the entirety of the Greek view of Medusa in favor of one later Roman author with a specific agenda, a story that absolutely breaks ancient Greek customs, breaks the character of Athena and the reason for Medusa's head on her shield. Got it. I did not even mention how they accept Poseidon is not only the rapist of Medusa but also the future rapist of Andromeda. Even though none of these things ever happened. There is even open, sexual disrespect and violence to (objectively) underage Andromeda by other influential men in front of her father! I'm not saying every girl everywhere is safe BUT: Are we supposed to suspend our disbelief that people in the court of the king speak about his underage daughter in such a way in front of him?? And no guards or other adults are present in that garden? Or does she seek to present even the local noblemen of ancient Egypt and Sudan as savages? (for lack of a better word) And why does she invent new violence that we have no record of happening? MUST Andromeda endure imaginary sexual abuse?? Again, what the hell is going on with the voyeurism of Western women on violence against the Eastern ones in Greek myth retellings? Why do you invent new rapes in your books just to feel righteous? Are you all getting on on toture porn or something?? Leave us alooone!
"Those of salt are freshwater's foe." - what...?? in what culture??? Neither Greek nor Egyptian mythology is governed by that rule! Some pages later, I read about the Oceanid, Dori,s who married Nereus, the Old Man of the Sea. Not ony the author conflates the realm of Oceanus, the Sea and the Rivers, but she also tries to make a point out of it, that of a female / Oceanid enstranged because of her marriage. I can't take none of this seriously because it's all based on an ass-pull and confusion!
Another ass-pull: Daughters/female descendants of gods get their periods later in life, and the reasoning of the author is"divinity does not bleed". Not in the Greek or Egyptian culture.
Author has not checked how the basic Greek plural works. It should be "amphineuron" not "amphineura". Amphineura is plural and represents a class. Instead of writing "he is a marine mollusk" she wrote "he is marine mollusks". You can google these things, you know.
Author does not know how basic gender worked/works in Greek or Latin grammar. "Cetus" is clearly a masculine noun in Latin. In Greek, it is clearly a neutral noun. And yet, the characters call Cetus a "she". And I'm not referring to the plot "oh, it's a she!" / I'm referring to the sentence "Cetus, waiting to swallow anyone that so much as glances at her master in the wrong way." That sentence is grammatical nonsense and if you don't know why, then congratulations, you understand that at least you don't know something.
Already from the initial chapters, we are met with a glaring absence of descriptions of the local environment, architecture and culture. There is one mention of "kalasiris" but no explanation of what it is. A mention of a blue lotus here, a mention of a honeyed drink there, a reference to chamomile tea. But it doesn't tell me anything. At one point, without descriptions of local dresses, Andromeda's mother just "wears red and gold".
We get a lacking and vague description of a palace in the third chapter, only after many scenes have taken place there. And still, I would not be able to understand how it looked, if not for the image at the first few pages of the book!
The Greek gods are referenced as "Western gods". Shouldn't they be "Northern gods"? Does the author know geography?? Yes, the Greek lands are sliiightly West of Egypt for the most part but the difference is negligible. That's like people from Cyprus island calling Crete island "the West"…..
I'm not reading any more of this book. I'm TIRED.
I beg your pardon but if that's the inaccuracies and deficiencies I can spot in just two and a half chapters (just a couple of pages, really), I will not trust that author to represent my culture and the culture of anyone ever Hellenized. Not even the culture of ancient Egypt, to be honest.
E.S. McLeod is no different than any other Anglophone author who butchered or misinterpreted my heritage to a wide audience. And the shit she'll get for it is exactly the same as the other authors before her, because she's doing the same harm as those before her.
my notifications are once again devolving into a spirited debate about the ethics of actions that could potentially make someone uncomfortable, and at risk of sounding like someone about to get a lot of irate anons I think we're frankly giving way too to much moral weight to hypothetical discomfort
the thing about discomfort is that it's an extremely nebulous category that can be triggered by virtually anything and that's far too broad a category to have any inherent moral quality to it. like. my mom was mad uncomfortable when I stopped shaving. that didn't mean I was doing violence against my mom it just meant she needed to get over herself. many such cases it must be said.
there's not a single example I could give that's better than this
I am so mad at this!! People legit seem so unbothered to to learn but also feel entitled to comment on one's culture they don't belong simply because one part of its legacy is massively popular so they make it as a silly fandom to play with rather than trying to read about it besides stereotypes
I feel you! And I also feel that most of them don't do it out of malice. It's their society that's taught them they have the right to do as they please with foreign cultures, especially if they are their "wEsTeRn HeRiTaGe". So they can have fun in their little bubble while ignoring the real world - aka the Greek culture - and any ramifications their attitude brings. This has been going on for literal centuries, and us Greeks are so fed up.
This guy is absolutely right. How can you "reclaim" voices from a culture that's not yours?? Ancient Greek women are not from your own culture - if you even recognize that Greek culture is its own culture, separate from yours.
On top of that, those authors have no idea about the History of Greek women. We have a voice of our own and you are not trying to amplify it. You just pretend you care so you can get your fame and money.
Typical author marketing their rerelling: guys so literally all history was written by men and because women were always a victim we should FIX HISTORY by making this book that treats all characters like a 21st century melodrama with no depth only spice and lots of assault! (To stay true to the source because women only were victims). And no issue whatsoever! i can mock ancient Greeks while making money of them because all men are barbarians and no culture matters if it's not modern and progressive like ours! (Western)
YES! It's like every popular Greek Myth retelling that comes around has this exact same formula baked in! At this point I wonder if they know how to write anything else.
Have you ever visited the Greek mythology subreddit? If so, what's your opinion? (Tumblr doesn't have a very good reputation there 😵💫)
Yes, I have, and I can't say I like that subreddit. While there is some genuine effort by the mods and some members to elevate its quality, it's more like an echochamber and a fandom than a community interested in the religion and customs of a foreign culture. Most people there don't seem that educated. They may know all the trivia about the gods, but the way they see our Myths (separated from Greece and Greeks) doesn't show me people who have studied their supposed biggest love. As a Greek who loves her culture and is informed about it, I feel uncomfortable there, and I regret every time I lurk around.
what a fucking relief to be the one kid in this family without a blue name