can i say that nonbinary people experience a specific type of oppression that binary trans people don't or will y'all get mad at me?

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can i say that nonbinary people experience a specific type of oppression that binary trans people don't or will y'all get mad at me?
I'm archiving a lot of transandrophobia posts and I've now spent hours skimming posts before recording the link, date, and html. I don't know how to do it with a program or code.
And I want to say that reading each post makes me feel proud of my trans siblings more than anything. I'm proud that so many of us have discussed experiences and phenomena that's been so hard to wrap our heads around. I'm proud of the art I find in there, both visual and literary. I'm proud that so many of us have seen others insist we're assholes and refuse to be that kind of enemy.
I'm proud of our trans fem allies who engage in these things despite risking alienation from other trans fems.
I'm proud of the trans mascs who aren't men. I'm proud of the trans mascs who are.
I'm proud of the diversity of gender expression we include.
I'm proud of the variation we have with points of transition.
I'm proud of intersex people who refuse comp dyadism. Who push back against intersexism.
I'm proud of the transneutral and multigendered trans people who continue to push for their visibility in the shitty "masc v fem" discourse.
I'm proud of those of us who mention the rights of trans mascs in the middle east and global south, who demand to be recognized.
I'm proud of the trans mascs of color who started this conversation and who continue to give significant insight from their lives and experiences.
Your experiences, your voice, is important. I love you all
iâm surprised exormisogyny (the intersection of exorsexism and misogyny) is not a coined term even though it describes the exact phenomena that the trans community is plagued to death with that for that same reason ever since the beginning gave rise to one of the most prominently used slurs of the trans community, that being âtheyfabâ
I like this term. There's something I feel like has been missing from discussions of exorsexism so far, and it's how forcing a link towards womanhood can take a lot of different forms. It's "theyfab", and it's regarding of nonbinary people AMAB as empty vessels to be filled with womanhood.
- mod Sun
yes! i think it's an important word for a very influential intersection!
funny that i thought about making a post about the misogynistic idea that everything associated to/produced by/experienced by people who are seen as connected to femininity and/or womanhood is like. fundamentally unserious or less serious. how this idea influences exorsexism and, for example, the assumption that every nonbinary person was AFAB (which is intersexistly conflated with being raised as a girl and expected to be a girl, and transphobically conflated with "being basically a girl anyway").
like. nonbinary people and nonbinary identities are seen as fundamentally unserious because they shake the white patriarchal ideas of gender binary. people and things associated with womanhood and/or femininity are seen as fundamentally unserious because of white patriarchal ideas that womanhood and femininity are irrational and not to be taken seriously. so they draw connection between two fundamentally unserious things.
(important note: fundamentally unserious doesn't mean non-threatening. nonbinary people, women, feminine people, and people who are perceived to be ones are often demonised and seen as threatening, dangerous, aggressive, especially people of colour. but it, for me, also about fundamental unseriousness. they can't have really important things to say. they can't be reasonable and justified in their anger. they are irrational and not to be taken seriously, but it makes them even more threatening in the eyes of white patriarchy. that they're unreasonable and couldn't be reasoned with. so white patriarchy responds with crushing violence "to protect itself from this dangerous unreasonable people.")
"transmasculine nonbinary people" and "transfeminine nonbinary people" with no mention of transneutral nonbinary people is creating a binary, actually.
and no, these categories don't include intersex people.
no mention of transneutral/transandrogynous/transnull/transxenine/transaporine/transomnine/transnonbine/transfemasculine individuals, no mention of multigender individuals, no mention of genderfluid/genderflux/genderfluix individuals, no mention of non cis/non trans (iso, abs, centr, sens and etc) individuals, no mention of anonbinary individuals....
can i just
At present, the dominant strand of transfeminism does not promote unity and solidarity. Instead, it has fallen into relying upon toxic and often separationist politics- a crude distortion of the founding ideas of transfeminism. Emi Koyama, author of The Transfeminist Manifesto, was explicit in transfeminisms inclusion of all trans people in its movement. She wrote that transfeminism began primarily for trans women and that "it is also open to other queers, intersex people, trans men, non-trans women, non-trans men and others" (2). Her initial publication of The Transfeminist Manifesto was in the year 2001. Two years later, she revisited it and added the following in the postscript of the 2003 edition "I take full blame for the fact that this manifesto is heavily focused on issues male-to-female transsexual people face, while neglecting unique struggles that female-to-male trans people and other transgender and genderqueer people face" (3). Numerous other transfeminist publications recognise the need for greater solidarity between all trans people and for transfeminism to be explicitly inclusive of all transgender and nonbinary people. Talia Bettcher explained in 2017 that "since trans men are also vulnerable to sexism, transphobia, and the interblending thereof, trans feminism would be ill-advised to exclude them from its purview" (4). [Reference 2: Koyama, Emi. The Transfeminist Manifesto, 2001 & 2003 p. 1] [Reference 3: Koyama, Emi. The Transfeminist Manifesto, 2001 & 2003 p. 10] [Reference 4: Bettcher, Talia, Trans Feminism: Recent Philosophical Developments, 2017, p.2]
"Transandrophobia describes the transphobia primarily experienced by trans men. While trans men do experience an intersection of transphobia and misogyny, they also experience an intersection of transphobia and a hatred of men or masculinity. Arguably, much of what is called transmisogyny for the experiences of trans women is also partially an intersection of transphobia and a hatred of men or masculinity. The ideal word for the concept is sadly marred by disingenuous cis men, but to use 'misandry' here tentatively is not an endorsement of any kind of MRA-style politics, but a convenient shorthand for a kind of hatred of men or masculinity which has a significance in (and only in) the context of transphobia. As alluded to, the term transandrophobia is the most popular term presently for the transphobia primarily experienced by trans men. Earlier terms did include 'transmisandry', which, aside from one academic usage in the context of an intersection of transphobia and racism (5), has not enjoyed much usage due to knee-jerk rejection of the term's suffix. In short, 'misandry' in this solely trans context conveys the transphobia rooted in a hatred of men or masculinity." [Reference 5: Martino, Wayne, Omercajic, Kenan, A trans pedagogy of refusal: interrogating cisgenderism, the limits of antinormativity and trans necropolitics. Pedagogy, Culture & Society. 29, 2021, p.679â694.]
"All trans groups experience a mixture of misogyny, 'misandry' and misandrogyny- the levels of which vary from group to group. Trans women may experience misogyny (such as unwanted sexualisation for being female and trans), however, they may often experience 'misandry' (such as the vitriol some transphobes espouse which accuses trans women of being 'violent males) and misandrogyny (such as transphobic rhetoric which centers around a trans person's appearance being androgynous and thus not easily sortable into male or female categories . This may result in slurs like 'heshe' being used). Trans men, on the other hand, may experience 'misandry' (such as accusations they are going to transition into -'violent men'), misogyny (such as insinuations trans men are being led astray and that they are incapable of thinking for themselves) and a similar kind of misandrogyny trans women may face. Nonbinary people may experience misandrogyny (such as being forcibly put into a male or female category against their wishes, especially in a medical setting), misogyny (such as rhetoric which claims being nonbinary is a social contagion amongst those assigned female at birth) or 'misandry' (such as rhetoric that claims those assigned male at birth who are nonbinary are identifying as such in order to be predatory). In short, every kind of trans person experiences a mix of misogyny, 'misandry' and misandrogyny. It differs from group to group as well as from person to person."
[Excerpts from The Transunitist Manifesto, written by Luke B. 2023.]
The Rules of Anti-Transmasculinity
1. Your body is not your own.
1a. Your body is a site for otherâs desires.
If they want you to be beautiful, it is cruel of you to deny them that. If they want you to be feminine, it is cruel of you to deny them that. If they think you should reproduce, it is cruel of you to divest yourself of reproductive duties.
1b. Your body is owned by the state.
Reproductive laws that can affect cis women also affect you, but you cannot weigh in on them, because you are not a woman.
Anti-trans laws affect you, but you must not bring this up; you are never the ârealâ target, even when you are, because you are not âreallyâ trans.
When the legislation talks about âprotectingâ your fertility, you should feel lucky to be safeguarded from yourself.
- - -
2. Your experiences are not your own.
Your childhood does not exist. You cannot claim girlhood if you are a man, and you cannot claim boyhood if you did not grow up within it, and no other visions of childhood may exist. Your history, however you define it, is fundamentally incompatible with who you are.
Forms of sexism which are aimed at women, by a binary logic, cannot be aimed at men or mascs. If your experiences contradict this, either you are invalidating your identity, or you are appropriating womanhood.
It is your duty to blithely dissociate yourself from any trauma patriarchy may have inflicted on you. Men cannot be affected by these things even if it happens to them personally. A ârealâ man must be stoic and uncaring.
- - -
3. You are a âdefaultâ body.
You are to be assumed affluent, perisex, binary, and passing, with no legal or situational barriers to medical or social transition, and no reproductive concerns to speak of â unless your nonconformity can be used to dismiss you.
You are assumed to be able-bodied, sane of mind, white, and thin â unless your mental health or appearance is good for mockery.
You are to be treated as essentially cismasculine. Being treated as if you are cis is a compliment, even when it is erasing your lived experiences, and even if it is known and true that transfems have their own unique struggles from cis women too.
- - -
4. You are an âaberrantâ body.
4a. Your body is a site of fascination. You (are presumed to) have a gestative capacity, and a fun extra hole. These traits are relevant when others assess your attractiveness and their kinks. They are not relevant in the context of your health. Youâre a submissive little bottom, right?
(Your body is something to conquer and claim. This may be done to emphasize your femininity, deny your androgyny, or defang your masculinity.)
4b. Your body is a site of disgust. Any steps you may take to masculinize yourself are âruiningâ your âfemaleâ features, regardless of any joy you personally take from the changes, and regardless of if you engage with medical transition or not.
(You are killing the woman you are supposed to be. Stand trial.)
4c. Your body is too unattractive to be sexually violenced. It doesnât happen. When it does, you have anatomical privilege, because you are (presumed to be) in possession of a vulva, and victims with those are of course always believed. But it doesnât happen, because you are essentially a cis man, and of course men don't get raped.
(It is not possible to be targeted for this violence because you are transmasculine. It is always misaimed violence, intended for someone else. Apologize to her for taking up her space.)
4d. Your body is a proxy for otherâs ideas about activism. Womanhood is good, and manhood is bad, and things in-between are uncomfortable and hard to classify; therefore, a detransition back to cisfemininity would be a preferable state of being, wouldnât it?
(Your transition is at odds with good feminism.)
4e. Your body is a joke. Men donât menstruate. Men donât gestate. Men donât lactate. Men can't have breasts. If the suggestion sends people into hysterics, you must take it lying down.
(Remember; comedy is subversion, and you are an âabberantâ body.)
4f. Your body is a hypothetical and not a lived reality. If men could menstruate or gestate, that would fix patriarchy. It would not result in men being denied at the door of the gynecology office, surely.
(To entertain your existence is a rhetorical inconvenience.)
4g. Your body is a source of put-down. You are a cunt, a pussy, a fembrained bitchmoid â and it isnât sexist to refer to you as such, because you are a man. Your disinclination to be reduced to bioessentialist biogotry is simply proof that your masculinity is fragile. It is not proper for you to object to it, even when it is the same rhetoric spewed by patriarchy itself, and even if it would be equally galling to say to a woman, cis or trans.
(Have you not considered that your trans body is privileged under cis patriarchy?)
4h. Passing is universal to all transmasculine bodies and all life situations. Closeted, clocky, queer, or femme trans men and mascs cannot exist, and are not subjected to the same violence as women or other queer men. Legal gender markers donât matter. Medical access isnât a concern. People from your past cannot possibly be vindictive enough to out you, because queer or not, you have male privilege.
(Have you considered that you simply arenât trying hard enough to pass?)
- - -
5. If you are inadequately masculine, pre-transition, nonbinary, or bi-gendered, you cannot âreallyâ be a man.
Remember; you are a lost little girl when you need to be talked down to.
Remember; manhood and womanhood are diametric opposites, exclusive states of being.
Remember; poverty is not an excuse.
- - -
6. If you are inadequately feminine or too masculine, you cannot âreallyâ be queer.
Remember; you are a âdefaultâ body.
Remember; you are essentially cis.
- - -
7. If you are too assertive or too unwilling to serve as a punching bag, you cannot âreallyâ be a feminist.
Remember; men cannot be feminists.
Remember; men cannot need feminism.
Remember; your masculinity is most readily acknowledged when it provides a rhetorical threat.
- - -
8. If you really insist on your masculinity, then it must be in service to others. You owe them labor, defense, money, and deference.
You are not owed equality or reciprocity, because men are responsible for patriarchy. You are on the hook for the patriarchâs debt, and you are presumed to share his wallet.
(A man is a protector and a provider. I thought you wanted to be a man?)
- - -
9. Your interest in your own autonomy is indistinguishable from power-grabbing.
Your self-determination and self-advocacy aligns you with patriarchal interests, or is a sign that you are too battered by patriarchy to self-determine in the first place. Someone else must decide these things for you. Someone else must speculate on your motives. You do not get to speak for yourself.
- - -
10. Your inclusion and representation is not important.
10a. When you notice your absence from culture, art, and storytelling, others ask; why do you not simply project your experiences onto cis men? Remember, you are a default body. Surely you are different from other queer people who need direct representation.
(When you try to do that, you are classically fembrained and illiterate for thinking a given character could have transmasculine subtext or themes.)
Projecting onto cis women is akin to killing them.
Why are you not satisfied with mpreg fanfic?
10b. When you make your own art and stories, you are playing with dolls. It is unimportant, juvenile, and easily dismissed much in the way that people discuss teenage girls who act as culture-makers.
(If transmasculinity is not present in the world of art, it must be because it has no artistic merit.)
- - -
11. Your erasure is proof that you have nothing to offer.
The muffling of violence done to you or your brothers is proof that no violence occurs in the first place.
The muffling of you or your brotherâs contributions is proof that none of you contributed in the first place.
The removal of your brothers from the historical narrative is proof that they didnât exist, or that they never stood in solidarity with other feminists and queers.
Silence is proof that you need not speak.
- - -
12. Denying any danger that you may be in is affirmative to your masculinity, because men cannot be harmed.
There are no statistics that say otherwise if we never read them.
There are no patterns of abuse if we never speak of them.
There are no dead if they are recorded as femicides.
There are no victims if we do not speak their names.
- - -
These contradictory impositions are not aimed at transmascs alone, but they are the recurring patterns I notice as a transmasculine feminist. We are not the only ones in danger, but we are queer all the same, and all queerness is targeted under patriarchy.
If I may also add
13. You are a danger, because men are oppressors and dangerous, and to be seen as dangerous and therefore as a man is gender affirming.
Privilege from manhood is inherently yours and to not desire to be seen as a threat is to misgender yourself. You are weak, cowardly, whining and hinging on as well as weaponizing your "femaleness" for saying you dont have the privilege cis men do. If someone treats you as the enemy, that is gender affirming. If someone insults you, you should feel seen as a man, even if it ignores everything about you as a person and only treats your identity as a stand in for the crimes of manhood.
Real men are cis men so if you want to be a man, you must aim to be cis, no matter how impossible for you. Your existence as a non passing trans men never puts you in danger, because you are a man before you are trans. Nobody targets, oppresses or aims to systemically harm men, therefore any harm you are subjected to is either misdirected and therefore less painful, which is a privilege, or non existent.
By being trans you are oppressing others and you must spend the rest of your life atoning for that. You represent all men and especially all trans men. You are the idea of a man and you are simultaneously identical and diametrically opposite to cis men.
This post is so funny literally proving OOPâs point. Most of âtransfeministâ Tumblr canât handle how queer people described themselves in the 90âs either. Ntm that at least 50% of these are clearly transfems describing themselves, which itâs pretty fucking transmisogynistic to police the language theyâre using. The only possible issue is the use of the h-word if said person wasnât intersex but itâs the 90âs. All these people sound cool as fuck and would probably call OP a cop
An issue the trans community has is still viewing nonbinary or multigendered people as still viewed as "basically a transman/trans woman".
The person's identity is viewed through the lense of whatever their AGAB is.
.
Example: Somebody who was AFAB & is bigender is more likely to be viewed as a transmasc who just happens to have some femininity added in. They are still expected to consider themselves a man, transition in a way that's 'typically masculine', & abandon their own womanhood.
The moment this person expresses their womanhood in any way their identity is immediately called into question. Because the trans community cannot imagine people who are not in the FTM/MTF binary. Your experiences *must* fit the most typical model of what people experience.
.
Nonbinary people who are agender/similar have a similar experience.. their AGAB is always called into question to see what category they "really" fall into. You can't just be nonbinary & not connected to transfeminity (trans woman lite) or transmasculinity (trans man lite), we need to figure out where you 'actually' belong..
That's why you see so many more people going "are you transfem or transmasc?". Even though it carves out a larg portion of the community, people only see two categories and must force you into their binary.
.
This isn't even touching on how the lack of grey area immediately screws over any intersex person either..
People have decided thay AGAB=where you're transitioning. What your identity "really" is, and it is nothinh less than transphobic.
.
The people in the community who enforce things like this need to start deconstructing sex & gender more than just "sometimes you're born in a girl body but you're actually a guy" & vice versa. You cannot claim to support your fellow trans people without putting in the work to support them all. This needs to end.
[pt: An issue the trans community has is still viewing nonbinary or multigendered people as still viewed as "basically a transman/trans woman".]
[pt: The people in the community who enforce things like this need to start deconstructing sex & gender more than just "sometimes you're born in a girl body but you're actually a guy" & vice versa. You cannot claim to support your fellow trans people without putting in the work to support them all. This needs to end. ]
Op you are so real for this, thank you so much for putting this into words. As a multigender person and as the one who runs this blog I see so many submissions that talk about this specifically, about how non binary and multigender people get constantly reinforced to be either transfem or transmasc based on their assignment, and it's such a dysphoria inducing experience to be imposed an identity when you've already been through that your whole life. It's dreadful to see the supposed safe space for everyone who's not binary cis to replicate the same mechanics of transphobia.
Not only is that person's identity viewed through the lense of their agab, but the *legitimacy of their experiences and feelings and experiences* is also filtered through the assumption of agab and the bias of whoever is looking.
It also ignores how there are more identities like transneutral, transoutherine, transxenine, transandrogynous, etc, and how binary trans people can be those identities too! Something so complex as the gender of a multigendered or non binary person for example is simplified by others as 'essentially [this]' instead of seen in its entirity. I mention this in regards to multitrans identities like transfemmasc or transmascneu or transfemxen and others. Anyway thank you for this post, it made me feel heard
Stop watering down and censoring words!
[PT: Stop watering down and censoring words! /End PT]
"Plus-sized" "Big-boned." "Fluffy." Fat. Fat is not a bad word. Skinny is not a bad word, buff is not a bad word, so why should fat be? Fatness is a natural body type. Stop making fat into a bad word. (Also, plus-sized pisses me off because plus WHAT? It implies a specific body type is "normal" and that being fat is "plus that.")
"Differability" "Differently abled" Disability. Disabled. Disabled isn't a bad word, disability isn't something to be ashamed of, and watering down terminology isn't fucking helping anyone.
"Neurospicy" Neurodivergent. Can we stop quirkifying neurodivergence? Neurodivergent people can be quirky, but please stop saying "all my neurospicy folks" and "neurospicies" and whatever. If you like these words for yourself, thats one thing, but stop using it unironically on other people!
"Sewerslide" Suicide. Stop censoring the topic of suicide, for the love of God. People suffering from suicidal ideation and people who have committed suicide deserve so much better than this baby talk.
"Unalived" Died. Murdered. Suicide. Whatever you mean.
"Grape" "Graped" Rape. Sexual assault. For fucks sake, VICTIMS DESERVE BETTER THAN HAVING A FOOD ITEM USED FOR THEIR TRAUMA.
"Seggs" "Smeggs" "Smex" "Sezz" Sex. It is sex.
"PDF" "PDFile" I would say pedophile, but ya'll keep using that word incorrectly, so I'mma say what you usually actually mean - child predator. (Please learn the difference between pedophilia and child predation and educate yourselves about paraphilias [link.] Stop demonizing mental disorders, there is no such thing as a "crime disorder.")
And don't get me started on the replacing letters with numbers. 1 as I, 3 as E, @ as A, etc. Not only is it inaccessible to screen readers and dyslexics, but it also is giving into censorship culture.
Speak up against it! Complain about it! Stop just conforming to the bullshit rules that companies enforce! Stop playing idly along with purity culture, paramisia, rape apologism, victim isolation and loneliness, ableism, suicidism, and fatphobia! Stop, just stop!
Censorship and needless rewording makes people feel ashamed or afraid to speak out! It prevents awareness and education! It reinforces stigma!
[PT: Censorship and needless rewording makes people feel ashamed or afraid to speak out! It prevents awareness and education! It reinforces stigma! /End PT]
Something I kind of dislike about the """girl Jax design""" is that it positions Jax as having more choice over her appearance than the rest of the cast. Jax CHOSE that hair, Jax CHOSE that bow, Jax CHOSE that outfit, but the rest of the cast are still stuck in a body that is not their own, they cannot make choices (afaik) to change themselves. Only Jax can. It once again is telling me that the show views Jax having more autonomy over herself as a net positive, but for the rest of the cast it is not. Considering there's another member of the cast who is also gender queer and stuck in a body they dislike (Zooble) but they are forced to essentially Suck It Up and Learn To Love Themself etc etc. It's unfair and cruel.
Imagine if gravity fall ended not with the epic fight with bill chiper but instead with dipper pines panicking and the whole episode revolved around exploring his backstory and thats it
Only for the last 30 mintues to be bill randomally showing up to say his âso sowwy :(â and we find out the only reason he was evil was cause he had another entity in him but now his good cus he removed it
Then alex revealed everything we found out from the last episode on social media instead and claimed its all âfluffâ
Cause thats litrealy what goose is doing with tadc
has anyone talked about the amazing digital queerbait yet?
goose wrote a show queerbaiting us with a trans character who isnt allowed to be trans or go by she/her outside of twitter and is constantly marketed with the maid dress that makes her uncomfortable and dysphoric. and people are defending this rep with their lives
writing ragatha with "lesbian intent" (this comes from a tumblr post which iykyk so bear with me) ? when does she get to be lesbian in the show, when is that shown or even implied?
zooble being said to use any pronouns while only being addressed by they/them same with she/they ribbit only being she/her
zooble and jax are BOTH walking stereotypes!!
i dont want my trans/queer rep to be half baked like this im sorry man
Since I'm getting hate, I'll say my other peace about Jax. I think it's why Jax in particular irritates me so much
Jax is the epitome of roleplaying with the worst person alive. They're the oc who has to constantly be upset and in need of support but never accepts it and only uses it to hurt others, everyone has to forgive them immediately when they hurt others, everyone has to be attracted to them, everyone else's problems get solved immediately while theirs drags on and on, they constantly need to be walked back off the cliff and yet, still in the end, they make their oc have a big dramatic suicide scene and everyone else has to give them a big elaborate funeral and the person they kept targeting isn't allowed to be sad anymore. Literally the " well I guess everyone would be happier if I just DIED!" and everyone around them is so fucking tired of this bullshit they just say yes. Then the group chat rp partners all leave and make their characters have happy, fun and spicy adventures without the fucking angsty energy vampire in the corner.
This goes doubly for if you have a player like that at your DND table.
Hi guys this is my abusersona everyone loves her and she hates women and hurts them but thats only because she has a sad backstory so everyone magically forgives her đ„șđ„șđ„ș
You aren't making the argument you think you are if you use the word "transphobic" to describe people who don't like Jax because he is a misogynistic, loser piece of shit who physically, emotionally, mentally, and sexually abused others- Jax whose main targets were, by no coincidence, women.
You are not making the argument you think you are when you hear someone criticize Jax for being abusive and your first thought is to call them transphobic. What are you saying here, really?
Some of y'all are so far left you've circled back to the right again. All these arguments really read more like internalized transphobia if anything.
Mf asks this as if it can't be done in an extensive list
All that time dedicated to Jax, and she still turns out to be a poorly written character
Pack it up, Goose.