I don't want to fight you on your Hayden opinion (bc i do think all of what you've said made sense! Re them behaving like hissy cats for understandable reasons) just offering the book perspective since that where ig a lot of ppls Hayden opinions come from. My Dinner With Hayden is like ...so so bad to me. This man literally tries to physically fight Ilya in his own home for the crime of being bisexual. Additionally during tlg he like actually believes that Ilya fakes being attracted to men, tanked his career and accepted never being able to go this his birth country again just to ruin Shane's career. Like idk the dynamic you're describing for them totally makes sense at the beginning of the relationship reveal but it just never gets better in canon and takes on comical dimensions. Yeah Ilya is poking him but Hayden is going nuclear every chance he gets. (Not helped by the fact that imho opinions Hayden isn't exactly depicted as being an actual good friend to Shane in any other meaningful way)
i know i' venturing into things i shouldn't in responding, but like. i feel like you're reading it with a VERY decided opinion that's coloring your impression (and that's human and understandable. like it's not a hit. it just kind of sounds like you're still putting a lot of blame on hayden in the dynamic that i don't necessarily think he deserves). like in my dinner with hayden:
opening scene: ilya opens the door instead of waiting for shane specifically because he knows hayden isn't going to like it. his opening move here is needling hayden because he thinks it'll be funny.
hayden says something and gets called on it by shane, and then ilya immediately goes for another chirp. when this is already not going well. (because he is ALSO going into this with a decided opinion in thinking shane's friend sucks. hayden is acting out based on his current opinion of ilya, but so is. ilya.)
DIRECTLY saying something to fuck with hayden again, and hayden actually doesn't say anything back! he's visibly annoyed, but he just drinks his wine. (and in this, i do not think hayden's response is homophobic because he doesn't like the idea of two guys fucking. i'm going to be honest: if i already don't like someone my friend is dating (AND HE KNOWS THIS), and then he winks at me and makes a comment about their sex life?? not exactly improving my opinion)
ilya literally picking where to sit based on where it's going to be more annoying to hayden as a reminder of him and shane being together.
and here we have hayden just chilling because he's not reacting to anything. yeah, he has his mouth full so he couldn't say anything, but he doesn't make a face or roll his eyes or indicate that he's bothered by ilya saying he's going to go help shane. ilya isn't deliberately poking at him, so hayden doesn't react.
yeah, rude to think someone fucked with your food when they're hosting you in your home...but also...kind of get it a little bit.
and again, ilya prodding at hayden again to be annoying. if they had a relationship with each other, this would be a fun chirp and they could understand it's a joke, but they don't have that relationship. hayden doesn't like or trust ilya, and ilya has spent basically every interaction this whole night so far specifically trying to get on hayden's nerves.
AGAIN: ilya being the one to start the fight. hayden went for the throat with "what does shane see in you," but *ilya* started this in the first place. because he and hayden have BOTH decided "i don't like you" from the very start here, and hayden might not be extending an olive branch, but ilya is also the one instigating a lot of the conflicts here.
this is immediately following the screenshot above: again! rude! telling someone when they're next to their spouse, "you don't like me because you're jealous and wish you were dating my boyfriend" is rude to that person AND their partner. also, i love hayden for pausing here and telling shane he loves him. the immediate and absolute no COULD be insulting, but even when he's mad here, hayden stops himself to make sure he's not insulting shane here. yeah it's a little straight bro to go, "i love you, but just in a friend way," but ilya is the one who just said here that he has a crush on shane. (which, i know that's a debate in fandom. i won't get into whether it's accurate or not.) hayden doesn't like ilya and is fighting with him here, but even while mad, he pauses to make sure shane knows they're good and he loves him.
yeah, "He's full of surprises," is kind of shitty. not going to defend that. and we see that shane doesn't like it, but i'm going to give hayden like 0.2% credit with the understanding that my guy is NOT having a good night. yeah he's mad he's here having to have dinner with someone he doesn't like who's been spatting with him all night. that doesn't mean it's okay for him to get snippy with shane, but i also just think that's incredibly human.
and again: ilya directly instigating.
and ilya has his comment here (and i get it), but hayden takes the effort to go, "i don't care that you like men. that's not why i don't like him. i don't like him because he's an asshole."
and we the audience know ilya is SO good to shane! *we* know that! we know that ilya is causing problems on purpose and isn't normally like this in private.
but hayden doesn't know that.
hayden knows ilya rozanov on the ice who runs his mouth and acts like a douche, and then he got to this dinner, and so far ilya has done nothing but prove him right. like hayden absolutely came in with a pre-formed opinion, but ilya has done NOTHING to change his mind all night. he has ONLY made it worse. and he's known it! he's known he was provoking hayden every single time he's done it!
this could have been a PERFECT chance for ilya to actually answer honestly and maybe even give hayden something to actually like him for. he even could have been snarky about it, but going, "I moved to be closer to shane" could have gone a long way in showing hayden that he values shane and isn't just doing this on a whim (which is what hayden clearly thinks based on the anaheim comment).
and what does ilya choose instead? insult.
also! hayden atp has had literally *one week* to adjust to this and try to understand, "oh, i thought my best friend HATED this guy's guts for years and years, and i thought this because my best friend never corrected anyone else saying it and also agreed when anyone said it and even said things on his own implying that he HATES this guy. and. now they're suddenly dating out of seemingly nowhere. and i've got one week to try and make this make sense to me and then i've got to be face to face with this guy who i have ONLY known as an asshole for years."
and we see ilya's reasoning. he doesn't want to have to explain to anyone why he and shane like each other. and i understand that.
...but also: i think it's important to try to get along with someone's friends when you're dating them. i think ilya is moving from a place of being defensive (and again! i get it! i'm not saying ilya is bad or wrong for this!), but literally the ONLY thing hayden has seen from you before is being an asshole, and you haven't really done anything tonight to change his mind on that. you've made a comment about your sex life, taken every shot you could get, and also in front of hayden's wife suggested that the reason he doesn't like you is that he wants shane for himself. none of this is going to make someone even not actively dislike you, bud, let alone like you and understand why your friend wants to be with you.
i'm going to throw it out there: i understand why hayden is asking this, and i think the fact that he asks at all shows that he is a good friend. he cares about shane. he and shane have been best friends for years. his kids call him uncle shane. he is invested and involved with shane's life (as far as shane lets him), and he is worried about his friend getting hurt here. of course he is. he knows that ilya rozanov is an asshole, that he and shane have supposedly hated each other for years, and now they're dating. why would you suddenly be doing that, infamous womanizer ilya rozanov?
and again: WE know ilya isn't his reputation. WE know he loves shane SO much and is such a good partner.
hayden doesn't know that! he's had one week of knowing that shane doesn't actively hate his guts!!
and sure, you could say this isn't hayden's business or he's treating shane like he can't look out for himself, but??? people don't always think clearly in relationships. i don't think it's wild for hayden to worry that shane is being tricked here so rozanov can hurt him. or that rozanov is only interested in the forbidden thrill part and doesn't actually care about shane as a person.
doubting ilya's sexuality? yeah. that's not great. not a great move, hayden. that's shitty.
but also: shane has also worried about this. this isn't just a hayden thing. hayden is more aggro about it because he and ilya have been on each other's nerves all night, but shane has ALSO worried that ilya will ultimately end up with a woman and not him. but it's okay for shane to be worried about it but not for hayden to be worried about on shane's behalf?
and listen, i'm bisexual. bi erasure is real and so are stereotypes about bi people. doubting someone's sexuality isn't cool, but the issue here is, "i know you have a reputation for sleeping around with every woman you cross paths with, and now you're dating my friend. how do i know your reputation won't continue and end up hurting my friend?"
should hayden have gotten physical? no. absolutely not. that's not okay and it's not cool. yeah he's wound up and frustrated and has spent this whole night with ilya fucking with him at every opportunity because ilya ALSO went into this going, "i don't like you and don't want this to be happening," but hayden is the one who got physical, and that's not okay.
but they're also athletes in a sport that NOTORIOUSLY ends things with violence. is it okay for hayden to default to that now? no. but they're also pro athletes in a fight-y sport. i don't think it's surprising.
again: good friend hayden! you could argue he's making it about himself saying that this hurt his feelings after shane just expressed how scared and lonely he's felt keeping this secret, but i think hayden is just being honest here. he would have supported shane! shane didn't have to carry it alone! hayden would have helped him carry that! he would have still loved him! shane didn't have to be scared of telling *him*!
but shane didn't. and he had his reasons, and no one is owed coming out ever, but feelings are feelings, and hayden is being honest here. "i'm upset because i don't like that you felt lonely and scared and i couldn't support you because you didn't tell me." that's hayden being honest in a way that honestly i think is fairly healthy. it's not that hayden was owed shane coming out to him, but it's hayden going, "you hurt when you didn't need to, and it hurts me that i couldn't help you."
again! more honesty! hayden is having a hard time because he's having to completely rewrite his worldview about this. it's a BIG shift, and he's had a week to do it.
and!! he apologizes!!! he apologizes for making this all not go well. (EVEN THOUGH AGAIN: NOT ALONE IN THAT. ILYA HAS BEEN AN ACTIVE AGGRESSOR HERE FROM THE MOMENT THAT DOOR OPENED. I'M NOT SAYING I'M LETTING HAYDEN OFF THE HOOK FOR NOT BEING THE BIGGER PERSON, BUT HE'S LITERALLY HAD SOMEONE CHOOSING TO GET ON HIS NERVES AT EVERY SINGLE CHANCE ALL NIGHT.)
and: *HAYDEN* is the one to offer an olive branch!! it's clumsy, but even after an entire night of them provoking each other, hayden is the one who extends a truce offer.
tl;dr: you're allowed to think whatever you want, but i think you're going into this not liking hayden (which is fine! you're allowed!), and it's heavily coloring how you're reading things.
Winners room ish fic where Ilya drunkenly jokes that when the cens get their first cup win they all get a turn with Shane and then it stops being funny when everyone immediately starts playing on their A game and Ilya can’t help but notice Shane especially seems to be locking the fuck in
I love the idea of Shane being not just good at hockey but good at all sports, to the point where it fascinates and infuriates the other Centaurs
Because what do you mean they went to the batting cages for some silly fun to watch everyone flail at an unfamiliar sport, only for Shane to need three practice swings before figuring out the force and timing needed to start hitting every single pitch? What do you mean he sets the course record at the mini golf place they have the Pike twins birthday at? What do you mean he learned how to play cricket over a long weekend in the UK? What do you MEAN your Canadian ass that grew up on a calm, tiny lake went to visit Rose in LA and just learned to surf from “some guy” one of the days she was busy??
Shane doesn’t get why they all think it’s so crazy. He’s a professional athlete, he’s good at full body and mind control as well as adaptability and hand-eye coordination, and he’s so used to being the best in the world at hockey that he views being mundanely good at anything else as barely noticeable. He argues with Troy over whether he counts as being good at basketball just because he killed them all at the basketball shooting game at a Dave and Buster’s
They all start making bets to see who can find a sport Hollander isn’t good at. Harris is convinced he’ll win with figure skating because Shane’s muscle memory will want to work against him with a technique that’s so similar but also so different, only for Shane to come out of an afternoon learning from his old friend who was at the Olympics with the ability to do simple jumps and spins and is insisting the whole team learn so they can incorporate it into plays. Harris is not allowed to make suggestions after that
Ilya just sits back and lustily watches his husband destroy their friends at volley ball, wrestling, tennis, broom ball, and ultimate frisbee. Shane participates in an all pro athlete Ninja Warrior event to raise money for charity and Ilya can’t watch the clips of Shane flying through the course like a bat out of hell unless he is able to fuck Shane immediately after it ends
it baffles me when people say “i got tricked into watching this show for a ship that isn’t even canon” bro if those men had kissed, you would’ve SEEN it. i’ve seen gifs of men making out in shows i have no desire to watch. i’ve seen sex scenes from movies that nobody has ever heard of. when men kiss on screen, i am notified
it’s so special to me that so much of fan culture is textual analysis for the love of the game. like thank god there are people in my phone who are also thinking about this thing i love so much that they are writing transformative fiction as character studies and setting clips of the show to music with theme-relevant lyrics and writing long text posts analyzing every line of dialogue like!! yay!!!
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