An Undertale archive @an-undertale-archive - Tumblr Blog

So, does anyone know what this deal between Tenna and Kris would be? What did Tenna do? Is this something that wasn't answered to us or was it talked about in the game? Because I couldn't find anything about it.

And turning Tenna off, would that mean no one is watching him and he would feel alone or would it be something more like Tenna ceasing to exist for a while until he is turned back on or going into a coma?

khaliarart

Every time I think I've seen it all about these two, no I haven't. Remember this dialogue pops up when you check on Tenna with the Dealmaker equipped.

Spamton seems to know at least parts of the prophecy. He has a whole thing going on with wanting to break free from a predestined path. Spamton watched the whole fight, the entirety of chapter 3, knowing he is about to witness Tenna die.

So during the Pips scene... he thought this was his last chance at reconciliation. He probably thinks he won't have another chance to talk to Tenna ever again.

deepfrieddeltarunememes

there is something...being set up here

charafansmile

deepfrieddeltarunememes

beatingcodewithahammer

AW FUCK YALL

NOT A DAY GOES BY WITHOUT ANOTHER KNIGHT THEORY

SUSIEKNIGHT? REALLY?

maxknightley

hmmm. thinking again about my "on a normal route, kris doesn't actually hate the SOUL. they just hate the circumstances, & are willing to play rough because The SOUL Can Take It" theory.

more specifically, I'm thinking about the end of chapter 1, when Kris does the whole "slowly turning to the camera with a sinister grin" schtick. from a Doylist perspective, the purpose of this scene is to create an intriguing, memorable cliffhanger. but what's the in-universe explanation? why would Kris Dreemurr be putting on a little horror show for an audience that only seems to include the player? why would they seem to revel in it, when their actions in later chapters are subtler and in some cases they actively deny us information?

well... when they were younger...

did they play scary pranks on people they hated, or on someone they considered a friend?

argle-bargling

I've been reading way too much into everything about the Knight and one thing that immediately caught my attention was the way it poses. I think everybody agrees that its weapon is either Dess' bat or Carol's katana but both of those are supposed to be used with both hands so the poses don't match the way either of them are used. People are joking about auramaxxing but genuinely, it seems almost like it's a dance. And then it hit me. We know that Dess plays like. every sport. She's particularly associated with baseball and hockey (thanks Kris for beating me up with a hockey stick) and we know for a fact she has at least two pairs of ice skates - one in her closet and one under her bed.

So what if the skates aren't just for hockey. What if she also does figure skating? Look at the Knight's poses next to figure skaters.

And obviously ice skating is a winter sport so it really matches the Holiday theme.

olistar255

everyone asking who the Knight is and forget to ask how the knight is

antlord325

WOAHHH

vicholas

I've been taking the "Kris played with the power strip as a kid" thing at face value, but talking to a friend they pointed out that the most common way kids "play" with electrical sockets is by sticking things like forks onto them.

They also pointed out that Ramb's "hair" resembles two bent forks + his chin resembles a fork as well:

I'm surprised I didn't think about it before, because it would explain quite a few things about Ramb. Starting with the fact that he insists he knows Kris very well, but his idea of what Kris considers to be "fun" involves violence and hurting people.

Kris keeps playing Ramb's game despite getting hurt by it, just like playing with the electrical socket.

This is also why Ramb is associated with swords, death and "freedom"/agency imagery... While also being just a random meaningless electric socket, just a passive character wanting Kris's attention again.

It's possible that Kris only "played" with the electrical socket once and this became a traumatic memory for them... But the fact that Ramb prides himself on being Kris's favorite and believes that Kris won't be interested in Tenna's more traditional games makes me feel that Kris "played" with the electric socket multiple times after losing interest in traditional games and TV. Kris was self-harming. The sword route makes them reenact that.

deepfrieddeltarunememes

actually I wonder if what Susie was calling Kris out here was not for carrying a knife around all the time, but for not pulling it out when she threatened to bite their face off

like, that's not her teasing grin look, that's her sweating and glancing to the side look

because now the two possibilities for why Kris didn't are 1. they didn't even remotely believe she'd do it or 2. they wouldn't have minded if she had, and now Susie knows that they chose not to and they're embarrassed by it.

elogaming

twilightofthesandwiches

so what's your take on the kris hand severance prediction

Hmmmm...

So my first thought when I saw all of Susie and Noelle's 'Severed Hand' Dialogue in Chapter 4, is that it's already very applicable to what's going on.

Like... the irony of the situation is that Noelle and Susie are basically right. There is, in fact, a 'severed' independently-operating Human organ acting antagonistically to it's supposed owner in the basement.

We even started possessing Kris' SOUL when they woke up one morning.

So maybe, if The Severed Hand already is kinda equated to the SOUL... maybe it will end up being our 'Vessel'?

Like, Kris ends up losing a hand and then we end up possessing it. Essentially giving ourself a body to interact with the world and finish the Game while also freeing Kris from our constant control.

(To be honest, I was never totally into the idea that we'd just track down the Discarded Vessel and possess it. It just seemed like a far too simple and clean a solution to the complex moral problem at the center of the game. The Severed Hand is at least a more interesting and freaky idea. And since while the Hand has a bit more ability to interact with the world than the disembodied SOUL does, but not as much as Kris or the Discarded Vessel, it's also kind of a genuine sacrifice on the part of the Player for the sake of Kris' agency... While also a piece of Kris has been undeniable sacrificed for our sake.)

But also... thinking more about the other references to Kris losing their hand...

And especially the one in Chapter 3's hidden '1225' room...

With the heavy connection being drawn between Kris' hand and Dess... I've started wondering, what if Kris' hand is sorta already gone?

Basically, the scenario I'm imagining is something along the lines of; Kris was with Dess when she got Gaster'ed or whatever, they held on to her to try and save her as she was taken, but she 'slipped through their fingers.' (Just like they fail to grab the item in the ball machine, which is probably a Guitar Pick, which symbolizes Dess)

So now they feel terribly guilty about their 'failure' to save her, leading to the 'promise' to the Ominous Phone Voice of Probably Carol... And also touching Dess just as she got disappeared 'infected' their hand with a Mild Case of Metaphysical Nonexistence.

So while their hand seems Normal most of the time... it is kind of in a Quantum State of non-existence/still kinda connected to Dess wherever she has gone to. Although right now it's only evident via Weird Metaphysical Stuff like the Shadow Crystals or... whatever is up with that Ball Machine.

It's like, symbolism to how Dess' disappearance made Kris feel like they lost a part of themself and they usually can repress it and pretend that they're fine and whole... but they're not, not really. Maybe it also gives them some sort of a connection to the deeper planes of metaphysical bullshit going on in the story. Like, maybe this is why they can access the Egg Rooms?

Well, regardless of the details, if Kris really is going to lose their hand (whatever it's cause its Quantum State of Non-Existence got resolved or it just got chopped-off in the Normal Way), it would be pretty tragic for them. From what I've heard, it's not impossible... but it is a lot harder to play Piano with only one hand...

koimethehorizon

Deltarune: The Image of Divinity and The Angel

(MASSIVE SPOILERS FOR CH 4 of DELTARUNE and UNDERTALE)

If you haven't found this scene, go back to the room where you have to avoid a bunch of Shadow Blobs shortly after reaching the Third Sanctuary. Find a way into the hidden room on the bottom right-side of the room (follow the broken path) and you'll see this at the right side of the hall.

This string of dialogue, especially Susie's uneasy reaction, creeps the hell out of me.

Whatever the Angel's identity is, its physical form is something so terrifying and beyond comprehension that even in the minimalistic style the Prophecy normally uses, Susie is stunned by the implications of just looking at it.

One brilliant theory that I've heard a couple of people mention already is that the empty space is meant to reflect our screens like a black mirror. We are The Angel in this interpretation.

That's just crazy, and I'm very into it.

I'd like to delve a little further into this train of thought that may or may not confirm this theory further.

Remember what the Titan looks like right before we fight it?

BALD

It's a human skull. Maybe even what the Titan's skeleton looks like underneath its divine angelic flesh.

When I first got to this section, I almost thought that the Titan would just be a full on human JPEG like Photoshop Flowey was in Undertale.

Speaking of which...

What... is this even supposed to be?

This is one facet of Undertale that's always been neglected because we've never found any concrete answers for what it could be.

For all we're concerned, it's just part of the absurd horror imagery that Toby is trying to invoke during this section, and we're not meant to think too hard on it.

Except...

Toby used this face as his pfp on Twitter until the release of Deltarune Ch 1. So either he's really proud of the damn face or there's something more to it.

I don't really have an answer for this, but what I will guess right now is:

I think this is what the Angel looks like.

Not the Omega Flowey face specifically, but it's likely a pixelated human face.

Consider the similarities between these examples. This distorted human imagery has been used twice to depict divine beings.

One showing Flowey ascending to a higher state of existence.

The other shows a nigh-unstoppable world-ending monster only depicted in legend.

And The Angel is something akin to Deltarune's Abrahamic God or The Savior. Churches and an entire religion are dedicated to The Angel, yet we only see it depicted as the symbol of the Deltarune.

Let's take a few steps back and return to the "The Angel is The Player" theory.

There's actually one big piece of evidence for this theory in Undertale:

Ominous how early Toby planted these seeds huh?

In Undertale, The Angel is 100% meant to be You on each of the 3 playable routes. Now "You" is a bit subjective because that noun could be applied to 3 candidates:

You "The Player"

Frisk the MC you control

Chara, the true identity of the red SOUL

Regardless of who The Angel refers to in this messed-up trio, one very bold statement is conveyed.

The Angel decides the ending of the story.

And we, as The Player, get to decide how this ending plays out.

To the characters of Undertale and Deltarune, yeah, that's divine power alright. A power that Spamton considered his ticket to [Heaven].

If this theory holds true, then that means a person behind the screen is the image of divine power. In Undertale/Deltarune The image of God is...

A REAL human.

loveletterworm

I don't know if this is well known yet but if you stall for about 23 turns in the Tenna fight then there's special dialogue.

jerseydebil

dude what the fuck is his problem

twilightofthesandwiches

I'm not sure where I stand on various Narrator Theories in Undertale and Deltarune, but Deltarune Chapter 4 did add in a very interesting detail. The SOUL versus Kris sequence in Chapter 4 confirms that the SOUL has no narration on it's own.

The narration stops when Kris tears us out, and the only text we get when we play the SOUL disembodied is dialogue from other characters. Despite being capable of sight and sound, the SOUL cannot 'examine' items and despite being able to move and interact with objects, it does not get it's actions narrated to it.

Whatever is up with the Narration, it is tied to Kris' physical body, not to us.

This is already a great narrative device because it enhances the creepy atmosphere of this sequence by completely robbing us of the familiar source of information and amusement, making everything feel empty and Wrong, but I do also have to wonder about the Implications of it.

patchwork-crow-writes

This is something I've been wondering about as well, and your post here on the SOUL not getting any prompts or options when outside of Kris has only further fired up my curiosity on the notion.

There's a sense in the fandom that we are the ones forcing Kris to perform these actions and choices that we are given when controlling them, and while that is true in a sense, it occludes the real weirdness of the situation, which is that - neither we NOR Kris have any control over what the dialogue options are. They are given to us by the narration itself, and all we can do is choose between them.

How do we explain this? We could say that the dialogue options presented to us are things that Kris might say or do at any given moment, and we are given the power to choose between those options and allow the plot to proceed. But if that were the case... do we seriously expect Kris to say such mean things to Ralsei after finding out everything he's gone through - or that they'd earnestly say out loud "I'll never play again" when talking to Susie about the piano in the church? Indeed, they DON'T comply with these options when selected, finding some way to interrupt or subvert them instead. And the weird route completely puts paid to this idea, with Kris completely freaking out at our presence and the choices we force them to make entirely against their will.

A more intriguing notion is that something - or someone - within the structure of the game itself is the one that supplies these options, acting as a strange sort of gopher between Kris and Us. This mysterious force presents us with Options, some of which align closer to what Kris believes while others completely go against it, that we choose and are then conveyed to Kris for them to perform. The obvious candidate is Gaster, of course, but honestly there could be another, even more intriguing reason for this.

There are two possible explanations for this - the first is that, this someone wants to give US the opportunity to mess things up for Kris, pick the weird dialogue option, give us the power to, if not shape the story and its events to our liking, than to at least allow us to slightly better express ourselves through the medium of Kris - even to the point of destruction in the Weird Route.

The second - and the one I find more interesting - is that whatever mechanism is in place that has established the connection between Kris and the player is imperfect, and thus isn't able to fully account for everything that Kris and the Player might do, and so is forced to present unsatisfying, rigid choices to keep things going. This notion is reinforced when we consider that the connection wasn't ever intended for Kris Dreemurr - an actual person with actual motivations that run counter to our own - but for a pliant, obedient vessel that we ourselves had a hand in creating. Given that, the "game-esque" choices we're presented with make more sense, as the Vessel would literally say and do exactly what we tell them to, exactly in the manner we would expect them to. Translated to Kris, however, who can reinterpret our commands and garble their intended meaning, the system simply doesn't work the way it's supposed to.

The long and short of what I'm saying here is that - while the situation is framed as us players forcing Kris to say and do things they might not want to say or do, the fact of the matter is that we ourselves are being forced to pick between these options in the first place. In that sense, we are as much a prisoner of the narrative as Kris is. And our inability to make these choices - or to even have a narrative ascribed to us in the first place - when we are outside of Kris cinches that notion perfectly. We need Kris as much as they need us, in this weird twisted game we're both being forced to play.