checkpoint achieved

I'm Andy (they/them). Nice to meet you!

[sagelessichor]

I’ve been seeing this a lot in fics lately and it’s been kinda pissing me off so I feel I just have to say this: the reason why hollanov work is *because* they are equals. One is not better than the other yall.

You think Shane “gets turned off when his boyfriend loses his games” Hollander would actually want to be with someone who wasn’t as good as him? The whole reason why they’re rivals, why they work together as friends and as partners, is because they are equals on pretty much every single level. Neither of them are the better hockey players than the other because they are literally both tied for first. They are leagues ahead of anyone else in the league with only the other to match them. They are equals. They can only talk to each other abt their hot takes on hockey bc they’ll say shit like “idk I js think that if you score on an empty net it shouldnt count” and the other will go like “right???” meanwhile if they said that to anybody else they’d get ragged on for being arrogant. Nobody does it like they do, Your Honor.

now while I do personally believe that Shane is the more analytical player and Ilya is more instinctual in his playing, they’re both still tied for first. They are both generational talents and they know it, they know that they can only be challenged properly by the other and that’s part of the attraction/thrill for them.

but like, I keep seeing fics where at some point they mention that Shane is the better hockey player or that Shane is the best hockey player in the league and Ilya is second and like. no. Their whole thing as rivals is that they are equals, they can only be matched by each other. If they weren’t equals in every meaningful way, they wouldn’t be rivals. (And I do believe in my heart that if they weren’t rivals, shane’s interest in Ilya would’ve plummeted and vice versa.)

and like don’t get me wrong, I love Shane as a character, but we as a fandom do tend to make it look like Ilya doesn’t care about hockey. Now, Shane’s life is pretty much 100% hockey, yes, but if Shane’s life is 100% hockey then Ilya’s life is 95% hockey. Just because we typically only see Ilya in clubs in the books or fucking Shane or eating shit does not mean he doesn’t take hockey seriously. He does, he has to to be one of the best in the entire league, it’s just that all that shit happens off screen and. well. it’s clear that Shane’s got some problems regarding control in his life and often restricts his diet or his workouts for a sense of control meanwhile Ilya goes to clubs and drinks to feel in control of his life so we’re shown Ilya in clubs and fucking instead of training. It (their need for control stemming from the pressure of being generational talents, the pressure from the media, from the fans, from themselves, from their families) shows differently for both of them (and we tend to make those coping mechanisms their entire personalities) but at the end of the day, it’s another point where Shane and Ilya are equals/understand each other in a way no one else could. Fucking around with their health in order to feel in control due to the immense pressure from the media, family, and from constantly being number 1.

not to mention ilya’s whole “Hollander’s weak backhand” joke is just so much funnier when they’re equals. Like sure they are equals in literally almost every single thing, but ilya’s backhand is 0.00000005% stronger than Shane’s and while that difference is nothing to anyone else it’s jarring to them and it’s just funny because sure Shane’s backhand is better than pretty much everyone else’s in the league besides this one motherfucker who won’t let it go.

idk yall I js think their relationship is so much more delectable when we recognize that they’re equals

[flyora]

Harris do his best as always

[ilyahoellander]

my controversial hollanov take is that the two of them retire at exactly the same time. none of that ilya retires first to take care of the kids bs no sir. they retire at the same time. because both of them are just not interested in playing without the other to push them and the thought of doing long distance for even a week makes them start shaking crying screaming staring into the distance.

[bighairedbitch]

One thing I’ve seen happens in this fandom- and honestly sometimes in real life discussions about Hudson too- is that people end up flattening all POC experiences into one universal experience.

Race absolutely matters. Racism absolutely exists. But different racial groups are stereotyped in different ways, and those stereotypes can produce completely different social expectations.

For example, I’ve seen people criticize Rachel and Jacob for joking about Hudson being unintelligent because he’s a person of color. If Hudson were Black, I would understand that criticism more, because there is a long history of anti-Black stereotypes portraying Black people as unintelligent. But Hudson is Asian. Asian men are stereotyped in almost the opposite way. They’re often assumed to be intelligent, studious, and academically successful. The stereotype is still racist, but it’s a different stereotype. It doesn’t suddenly become an anti-Asian stereotype just because we’ve replaced “Asian” with the broader category of “POC.”

The same thing happens constantly in fanfiction with Shane.

A lot of writers portray Shane as being afraid to fight because he knows he’ll be judged more harshly than white players. I understand where that idea is coming from, but as a black person I’ve never found it particularly convincing.

If Shane were black, that analysis would make more sense to me. Black men are often stereotyped as aggressive, which means behavior that is considered acceptable from white athletes is often interpreted differently when black ones do it.

But asian men occupy a very different place in the racial imagination. They’re frequently stereotyped as passive, non-threatening, weak, nerdy, emasculated, etc. If racial stereotypes were influencing Shane’s approach to hockey, I could just as easily imagine the opposite dynamic: feeling pressure to prove he’s aggressive enough to belong. Maybe he’s fighting TOO much.

But that doesn’t make sense for Shane. He’s the league’s golden boy. He’s polite, media-friendly, and heavily inspired by Sidney Crosby. He’s a superstar. Fighting is often delegated to players lower on the depth chart whose role is specifically to provide physicality. Star players generally aren’t expected to be enforcers. Teams usually want their elite talent scoring goals, not sitting in the penalty box after dropping the gloves.

So Shane not fighting much doesn’t strike me as evidence of racial pressure. It strikes me as evidence that he’s Shane Hollander.

Crosby is a useful comparison here. For years, people mocked him for not being physical enough (and for talking to the refs too much). They questioned his toughness and masculinity. They called him “Crybaby Crosby” or “Cindy Crosby.” Fans edited photos of him in dresses or makeup. The criticism wasn’t really about hockey. The joke was that he wasn’t a “real man.”

And that’s a white player.

Imagine how much worse those conversations could become if the player in question were Asian.

That’s the kind of racial dynamic I could actually see affecting Shane: not people thinking he’s too aggressive, but people questioning whether aggressive ENOUGH.

There’s a good chance that if Shane fought exactly like many white players, he probably still wouldn’t be viewed as tough enough. Meanwhile, if a Black player fought exactly like those same white players, he might be interpreted as more aggressive.

People often criticize Rachel for not doing much racial analysis in the books. But sometimes fandom fills that gap with racial analysis that feels disconnected from both hockey culture and the specific stereotypes that affect different racial groups.

Not every POC experience is interchangeable.

A stereotype that affects Black athletes is not automatically a stereotype that affects Asian athletes. A stereotype that affects Latino athletes is not automatically a stereotype that affects Indigenous athletes.

If we’re going to talk about race- and we should- we have to talk about the actual racial dynamics at play, not just substitute “person of color” for a more specific analysis.

Sometimes no racial analysis is better than bad racial analysis.

[andy-dandy]

If I see one more person paint Shane as a tiny helpless poor baby victim to big bad mean bully Ilya over their mutual, consensual sexual encounters I will become the Joker

[hr-rep]

Everyday I live in fear of the HR fandom getting ever closer to Sitcom Dad!Ilya and Sitcom Mom!Shane being what we are forced to digest as fandom staples

[mybloodstream-caffeine]

If I see a fic tagged #Ilya Rozanov is obsessed with Shane Hollander and it doesn't have the accompanying tag #Shane Hollander is obsessed with Ilya Rozanov, I scroll past. I am #strict.

[andy-dandy]

Maybe my favorite thing about Shane and Ilya is that not only is their relationship a massive shock to literally everyone, but their relationship once you do know about it is fucking unhinged in really funny ways. Headcanons for post-TLG related to this concept:

The other SAPs (Spouses and Partners, including Harris) all expect that Shane and Ilya may be uncomfortable with the amount of lighthearted complaining-about-our-partners that goes on in the groupchat, like won't that be weird for you? since you're both here? Only for Shane and Ilya to be fucking thrilled at the chance to take their weird fighting/flirting foreplay to a new platform. They both start texting as if their husbands are other people who are not also in the chat and complain aggressively about each other all of the time. At least four times it turns into some kind of weird infidelity roleplay and everyone else is like ????

Shane and Ilya are very happy to be on the same team for, like, a lot of reasons, but about midway through their first season together the novelty wears off and they both kind of go wait :( I miss competing against you :( where's the fire? where's the drama? :( And the team is forced to invent little ways for the two of them to compete against each other in practice as Enrichment In Their Enclosure. Wyatt is most successful at this by just keeping track of who scores on him at practice, which turns into Hollanov metaphorically beating up Wyatt for fun at the end of every session. This is a fucking grind for Wyatt but does end up turning him into the best damn goalie in the league.

Everyone places bets on how long it'll take for the honeymoon phase to wear off and for Shane and Ilya --- who are, between working together and living together, essentially never apart --- to get sick of one another. But as it turns out, 12 years of long distance and utter secrecy has lowkey made them codependent. They don't get sick of each other, they just start engaging in low-grade psychological warfare over the laundry and then fucking it out. Everyone is confused about how they never seem to have issues until Luca Haas discovers their freaky codependent nonsense by accidentally overhearing them on a plane ride (his earbuds were in, they thought he was listening to music, HE WAS NOT) and is traumatized. His thousand-yard stare tells everyone else to just accept it and not ask any questions whatsoever.

Poor Scott Hunter genuinely and wholeheartedly believes that Shane is the Reasonable And Normal One...until an out and proud Shane comes to the Kingfisher with Ilya after the Centaurs utterly smoke the Admirals at home and suddenly Scott is double-teamed by the Russian Menace and his husband. They also fuck in the bathroom. It's obvious enough that Scott's utterly horrified expression makes Ilya burst out laughing. (Ilya has literally never been more in love with Shane in his life, quite possibly including on their wedding day.)

[andy-dandy]

STRONG disagree with everyone who suggests that the Tuna Meltdown could've been avoided if Ilya had communicated more clearly. I actually think it would have happened faster if Ilya had just come out and said, "I like you and I want to be exclusive."

Shane's problem in that moment is not weird mixed signals from Ilya (although they probably don't help). Shane's problem is that he feels as though he can't take any step forward with Ilya, because Shane is still very much in denial about his own sexuality and future. He still hasn't even acknowledged that he's gay. Shane firmly believes, pre-Rose, that one day he'll finally find a woman who makes him feel something sorta-kinda-maybe like what he feels for Ilya, and then he'll break it off with Ilya forever for good and have the white-picket-fence life everyone has always expected him to have. That's why Shane immediately seeks out Rose and starts dating her: Rose is The Perfect Woman, and ergo Shane's best shot at normalcy.

It is still late 2016 and Scott Hunter has not come out yet. Shane and Ilya's involvement, as far as they're concerned, is the stupidest thing either of them has ever done, and an enormous risk. It is impermanent. It must be impermanent. Anything more than what they already have is impossible.

If Ilya had just straight-up told Shane, "I like you and I want to be exclusive," Shane would've immediately said no. No, we can't have that. No, that's not what this is. No, that's impossible. No. We can't. I can't. Sorry. Goodbye.

[andy-dandy]

I do love the headcanon that Ilya and Cliff Marleau used to have threesomes during Ilya's Boston era. And Marleau 100% is the bro-y type that believes a threesome cannot POSSIBLY be gay if there's a girl involved and has literally zero doubts in his heart that he and his bestie buddy brother man captain Ilya are both entirely straight, despite kissing (full tongue in mouth) over the top of the girl they pulled together (ignoring her for a solid two minutes) at least once (it was multiple times).

Ilya, obviously, 100% knows that Marleau is at least a little bi, maybe a Kinsey 1 or 2? But he just sort of doesn't have the heart to break it to Marleau because he knows Marleau will have a whole crisis about it and Ilya doesn't have time for all of that rn. Also Ilya absolutely does not want to Awaken Marleau because if Marleau realizes that he likes Ilya then Ilya might have to deal with that and one extremely stressful and confusing secret affair with another hockey player is enough for him thank you!!!

This only comes up when Marleau comes out with the Ottawa guys after a Boston-Ottawa game post-TLG, and whilst drunk mentions the threesome thing and maybe the kissing thing while everyone else slowly exchanges extremely wide-eyed looks across the table.

Shane is incredibly displeased about literally all of this. It's Shane who eventually loses his patience and makes some crack about Marleau being in love with his husband (careful emphasis on his!!!! and husband!!!!) and Marleau goes. Oh yeah no we're just bros. No like. It was all super chill it doesn't count if your socks are on :)

This is when Troy bursts out laughing directly in Marleau's face.

[everfaye]

I’ve actually been fucking your son for 10 years. Thank you for pasta

[andy-dandy]

I find it genuinely fascinating how different people in the fandom seem to have diametrically opposed opinions on how fake "the rivalry" in Heated Rivalry is. You have some people who believe firmly that the rivalry was always real, Shane and Ilya are just also in love; you have other people who believe firmly that the rivalry was always entirely fake/manufactured because Shane and Ilya are in love.

And they're all correct.

This seems to be because everybody is operating --- consciously or subconsciously --- with two different definitions of "the rivalry":

The Rivalry(TM) as in the media-promoted narrative which caused everyone to believe that Shane and Ilya genuinely and personally loathed each other

the rivalry as in the earnest competition between Shane and Ilya for various achievements, wins, awards, etc.

So, actually, everybody is right. The Rivalry(TM) was fake the entire time. Shane and Ilya (as much as it would have been easier for this to be the case) never, ever hated each other. They liked and then loved each other the entire time. Whatever personal element existed inside their competition with each other, it certainly wasn't loathing; it was obsession, and attention-seeking, and delight at being so well-matched.

But the rivalry as in the competition itself was obviously incredibly earnest the entire time regardless of their feelings. They genuinely do want to win throughout their careers. They want to defeat each other. They perform their best against each other.

It's so interesting to me how these two seemingly opposed viewpoints are both right because, in the world of Heated Rivalry, discussing "the rivalry" between Shane and Ilya inherently means discussing two entirely different things.

[andy-dandy]

need a dislike button on this fuckass website SO BAD

[biggest-gaudiest-poltergeist]

at times when the world's wretchedness threatens to overwhelm, i remind myself firmly that despite all else, it is within my power to go to the chinese grocery store frozen section and buy an utterly enormous bag of dumplings. and that helps

[biggest-gaudiest-poltergeist]

there are several ways to cook frozen dumplings but i will direct you on the best way:

heat small amount of oil in pot on med-high heat. add dumplings, cook 2 min until bottoms are golden crispy

add half-inch of water. cover pot, cook 7 min

drain water and cook 2 min until bottoms are again crispy

CONSUME

in the darkest of times happiness comes in moments of joy we claw out of the jaws of the mighty. and sometimes that means dumplings

[andy-dandy]

everyone on the internet lied to me. baking is not a relaxing activity. i have discovered forms of anxiety i didn't even know were humanly possible

[libationbearers]

fuck it orestes poem. sorry for the horrific image quality it is legible if you click on them. he makes me feel sick

[andy-dandy]

eddie diaz out here inventing entirely new ways to be insane. roleplaying a therapy session between himself and his dead ex wife with his mistress is really something that actually just happened. on my tv screen. tonight.