Like genuinely you cannot say fat privilege is not a thing when people are directly encouraging overeating on the daily and never get punished but when someone suggests diets and being healthy they get terminated
marvel rivals squirrel girl getting fawned over by mr character design analysis mcyoutube shorts man is actually making me lose my shit. like fuck man i get wanting to be happy about a so-called fat character in a big name media property. and it's better than overwatch, sure, but the only way we ever got from overwatch to this is by holding people's feet to the fire. and there is so far to go. people in real life with thighs like that just do not have thigh gaps most of the time and that's FINE. it's FINE NOT TO HAVE A FUCKING THIGH GAP.
and what's more, if you imagine her legs with the bone structure that character model implies but without much fat, it would look bow legged and weird and creepy! they've gone so far out of their way to erase a common feature of real life fat people that they've essentially created a cryptid.
before we can have equal access to a positive body image for all, we need to be able to portray characters as likeable, relatable, aspirational without them having to have certain features in common with skinny people. why can't a "ray of sunshine" have thighs that touch. why does she have to have a flat belly. why no fat on her upper chest besides her massive tits.
and you may say to me "but they've gotta make her palatable and attractive to make her marketable" for one thing i don't care. i would love if marvel and Disney went as bankrupt financially as they are creatively. for another, let them make their crass commercialist slop but can we all fucking agree that it is not good representation
I would be thrilled to support brick-and-mortar stores in the era of Big Online Shopping. I was built to wander aisles for 6 hours with a good friend, spend a little too much money from my last paycheck, and even grab a snack and drink from a food court. A shopping center draws me in like a moth to a flame. I think I have a soul bond with my local dying mall that twinges painfully whenever another store closes.
So, what stops me? Every time I ask a retail employee where I might find my size and get the answer “Sorry, we don’t carry that size in store, but you might be able to find it online”, like the company expects someone who wears an xl-xxl/2xl to never venture from their home. The average size of an American woman was xl in 2016, according to the International Journal of Fashion Design, Technology, and Education, by the way. These clothing retailers have had a decade to catch up with stocking products for the most common consumer on physical racks, but instead they choose to keep in-person shopping as a luxury for the skinniest among us. And, their choice is contributing to killing them.
But, “Oh, they carry larger sizes in store at [Big Box Store]”. And, I hear you, but how often are those presented options made to be trendy? How often do you see a plus-size section at Walmart (example) contain anything you can imagine on someone younger than 50 years old. I’m sorry, but I’m young and I like dressing cute, and I’d even like a certain type of attention. I don’t want to wear the same clothes as my grandmother. I deserve to dress like my own peers.
This hasn’t even got to tearing apart the companies that don’t even make sizes for bigger bodies, in-store OR online. Imagine being a teenager at the nearest open-air mall with your cousin, and telling her inside of a dress store that “[You] don’t think they make [your] size”, and being overheard by an employee that looks you up and down while apologetically shaking her head no. It happened to me. I was the size of the average American woman.
I love when people take away the completely wrong message.
Instead of saying “wow I have made myself an extreme and I should work on improving myself so can be healthier, and not experience these consequences of my actions”
You just throw a temper tantrum and claim the problem is the world and not your unwillingness to change.
Rant about the fascistic mindset and cult-like dynamics of the Fat Acceptance movement
TL;DR:
- While most FAs are self-proclaimed leftists, their movement has extremely clear influence of the foundation of fascism (the us vs them mentality). Some of them also tend to say the exact same things about thin people that they claim thin people say about them, which can range from just a small comment to straight-up bigotry.
- The movement has cult-like dynamics (shunning, harassing and sometimes outright insulting people who leave the movement, or even only criticize a part of it (take Gabriella Lascano for example, who was shamed and disowned by the movement simply for telling people that their health is important), blatant science denial)
- Research papers cited by a lot of FAs are often extremely biased, and one lone article may be used as a monolith even if 99% of the research on the same topic suggests the complete opposite of what their cited study shows.
• Connections to fascistic ideology within the FA movement and cult-like dynamics.
I came across a TikTok of a FA talking about how fatphobic (by their definition, AKA people who intentionally lose weight for any reason (including health reasons), people who aren’t romantically attracted to fat people, people who personally don’t want to get fat, people who count calories, people who believe being obese/morbidly obese is inherently unhealthy, etc) people are fascist by default. And then they explained how they see the fatphobia debate as inherently “us vs them” on the FA side. Which… is a profoundly fascistic statement, as “us vs them” is the foundation of fascism.
“us vs. them” is the foundational logic of fascism. The in-group vs. the out-group. The pure vs. the degenerate. The victimized vs. the oppressor. It's the same binary thinking that fuels actual fascist movements. You don't have to be a political theorist to see the contradiction. It's like someone saying "violence is never the answer" while punching you in the face. The form contradicts the content.
Every single time someone leaves the FA community, they’re shamed, insulted and humiliated. This happened to one of my favorite YouTubers (Angelyca unfiltered, who was pronounced “dead” by a fat activist after she left the community because her health and mobility were deteriorating partly due to her obesity, as well as a chronic condition), celebrities such as Lizzo and Adele, Gabriela Lascano who left the community after her friend died from heart disease caused by obesity and went on to do a NYT opinion piece stating facts such as that obesity increases the risk of 13 types of cancer, and even some fat influencers who weren’t even active in body positivity and only focused on plus size fashion, who then decided to lose weight who have no connection to the FA movement whatsoever other than being obese themselves.
This is textbook in-group policing. Any group that claims to be about liberation but punishes people for making different choices about their own bodies has lost the plot. You can't preach "my body, my choice" and then scream "traitor" when someone chooses weight loss. The group defines itself by opposition to an enemy (the "fatphobic" world), and anyone who steps outside the orthodoxy becomes the enemy within.
Now, I certainly believe that these people completely believe they’re leftists. And of course, I won’t deny the left-wing opinions they do have. But to be a leftist is to be anti fascist, and the sheer level of fascist rhetoric that is so insanely, undeniably present in this community is undeniable. Of course, I’m not claiming they’re fascists (though some might be, I don’t know. There’s bad apples in every batch, after all. For example, many leftists still use slurs such as “schizo” or “psychopath” or “narcissist” which is profoundly ableist.) but it’s undeniable that their movement is highly tied to the foundation of fascistic ideology, even if not in the traditional, racist and nationalist sense.
• Bigotry within the FA movement.
To start off, I think it’s profoundly important that everybody is treated equally, no matter what race, ability, gender identity, orientation, body size or any other identity, culture or physical characteristics they have. Which is *exactly* why I’m so firmly against the FA movement. I wish this was exaggerated, but I’m not exaggerating one bit when I say that every FA I’ve ever did a deep dive on has said some of the same things about thin, healthy or even chubby people as they claim “the thins” say about them. I in no way endorse anybody to bully, harass or otherwise be mean to fat people, but the fact that they are so intent on focusing on all these things skinny people supposedly do (which in many cases doesn’t even have proof, most of what I’ve seen is FAs saying that a thin person “looked at them a certain way”, and though obviously it’s plausible that someone shot them a nasty look, what’s more likely is that they’re very insecure (which is supported by the fact that their entire identity is based around their fatness in a lot of cases, and the fact that most of them can’t even take a valid criticism like the points I’ve previously made without claiming bigotry, even if nothing bigoted is said) about themselves and interpret a normal look as a nasty one.) When your entire identity is built around being oppressed (whether that’s true or not, though I personally don’t believe the term oppression is accurate) for your size, you start seeing enemies everywhere. Not every glance is a microaggression. Not every mention of weight loss is an attack. But the FA narrative trains adherents to interpret neutral stimuli as hostile.
Then, thin people are often generalized as a monolith. But if "all bodies are good bodies," that has to include thin bodies too. Though FA rhetoric often excludes that.
• FAs reacting to criticism.
I’ve noticed that whenever someone tries to bring up a valid criticism of the movement (adipose tissue is hormonally active and an excess of it is detrimental to your health, CICO works for everyone regardless of genetics, medical conditions (unless the only fat you have on your body is lipedema, which is practically unheard of), medications etc etc) FAs are quick to claim fatphobia. This is the shut-down tactic. Label criticism as "fatphobia," and you never have to engage with it, because in your eyes, it’s bigotry and therefore shouldn’t be taken seriously, regardless of the validity of the claim made.
• “Educate yourself.”
FAs are constantly telling people to “educate themselves” What I find funny is that they clearly don’t do it themselves, proven by the fact that they can’t see the ties to fascistic thinking patterns and cult-like dynamics within their own movement. And what they do read is often highly biased. I’ve seen a couple FAs pull up a research paper on why obesity is fine, using it as a monolith. While for every single paper claiming obesity is fine, there are hundreds, if not thousands saying the direct opposite. I think it’s very good to read both sides of the argument. That’s also why I, as a leftist, use news sites such as ground news (not sponsored obviously but check it out if you haven’t yet!) to read both leftist, centrist and right-wing news articles. If you only consume the content you personally believe in, you’ll get stuck in an echo-chamber. I’ve noticed that FAs, when they do research, are extremely, *extremely* biased with it. Going back to my previous mention of the research papers, I would think that if the vast majority of research points to the opposite of what you believe, it’s worth looking into, whether you end up taking it seriously or not. Because even scientific research can be biased, flawed or straight up completely factually incorrect. Take that one article on ROGD, “Rapid onset gender dysphoria.” This piece is extremely biased, transandrophobic and filled with misogyny directed towards trans men (who they refer to as teenage girls, of course.), and all of their “research” comes from anti-trans parenting sites instead of actual trans people. I certainly agree that educating oneself is of critical importance, especially when it comes to oppressed minorities such as POC, queer folks and disabled people. Though the FAs use the phrase as a shield; a conversation stopper instead of a genuine, helpful advice. Not to mention, they often use the phrase “educate yourself” not as a supportive statement, but as a derogatory one.
They demand education for others but exempt themselves from self-critique. If they truly valued education, they'd examine their own movement's fascistic patterns, cult-like shunning of defectors, and "us vs. them" binary. But they don't. Instead, "educate yourself" means: go read the specific sources I approve, reach the conclusions I've already reached, and don't ask hard questions about my side. If you don’t, you’re a bigot and should not be taken seriously.
In good faith discourse, "I encourage you to look into X" can be helpful. But FAs typically deploy it after making a vague claim, with no sources, and then refuse to elaborate. It's a way to declare victory without argument; the intellectual equivalent of "I'm not going to do your homework for you." Meanwhile, they've done no homework themselves beyond their own echo chamber.
——————————
Whew, that was a long one. Thanks for reading all the way through, if you’re reading this right now. If you have anything to add, I would love to hear it! I’m always open to other people’s perspectives and personal experiences.
i mean to be honest if a group of people are dying at a disproportionate rate due to medical professionals refusing to treat them or delaying urgent treatment because of something that they either can't control or takes a very long time to change, that sounds a hell of a lot like discrimination and systemic oppression to me. But I digress.
a bad thing can be happening to two groups of people at once. Revolutionary concept, i know. Although clearly not as revolutionary as creating an entire blog dedicated to hating people with a different body type than you, you really changed the game with that one.
What I’m saying is “I don’t hate fat people. Factually speaking nobody hates fat people as a group. Fat people are inherently a privileged group, and this is a well known fact”
Meanwhile you’re just playing dumb to make yourself look smart.
Also I like you act surprised that I think the FRA is fat. Do you see any woman or nonbinary people who are MRAs? Didn’t think so.
You compared pointing out that rich people aren’t oppressed to misogyny. There’s no correlation.
Once again with the playing stupid to act smart. MRA - Men’s Rights Activist. A sexist hate group under the guise of being activism. FRA - Fat Rights Activism. An ableist hate group under the guise of being activism
Fatphobia is not real and you should be glad that by the rules of how our society works, it could never be. Be glad you’re privileged instead of roleplaying oppression.
Girl what does being rich have to do with any of this?? You're just throwing random shit at me at this point. I also don't know what the hell "fat rights activism" has to do with being ableist. Also weird that you assume I'm a "fat rights activist" when pretty much all i said was that medical fatphobia is a thing that happens. I barely ever post about fatphobia, i have more posts about David Bowie than i do about whatever you call "FRA" Not to mention you still haven't pointed out a single actual privilege that fat people have over thin people and you keep saying that I'm "playing dumb" for not knowing these niche ass terms, i just genuinely have no idea what you're talking about, and how would someone playing dumb make them look smart? Not a single thing you've said so far has made a lick of sense and I'm genuinely not sure at this point if you seriously believe anything you're saying or if you're just being an ass on purpose. Either way you're weird af
“Why do you assume I’m ableist? All I saw is I want to kill all disabled people”
I can’t believe I’m explaining things that you already know to you. You play dumb so the person criticizing you looks crazy and you look like the smart one who doesn’t know any of the crazy stuff,
All fat people are rich. This is a just a fact. You can’t deny it.
Medical fatphobia, like all forms of fatphobia, doesn’t exist. Fat people are given the best quality medical care.
There is privilege in being rich. Fat people are treated better, especially by medical professionals
Fatphobia is not real, and was made to make disability advocates look like jokes. Plus FRAs are ableist.
Being fat costs a lot of money
Promoting the false idea that fatphobia is real, promoting the idea of fat liberation, promoting the idea of fat positivity, promoting that false idea that fatness and disability are linked, etc.
i mean to be honest if a group of people are dying at a disproportionate rate due to medical professionals refusing to treat them or delaying urgent treatment because of something that they either can't control or takes a very long time to change, that sounds a hell of a lot like discrimination and systemic oppression to me. But I digress.
a bad thing can be happening to two groups of people at once. Revolutionary concept, i know. Although clearly not as revolutionary as creating an entire blog dedicated to hating people with a different body type than you, you really changed the game with that one.
What I’m saying is “I don’t hate fat people. Factually speaking nobody hates fat people as a group. Fat people are inherently a privileged group, and this is a well known fact”
Meanwhile you’re just playing dumb to make yourself look smart.
Also I like you act surprised that I think the FRA is fat. Do you see any woman or nonbinary people who are MRAs? Didn’t think so.
You compared pointing out that rich people aren’t oppressed to misogyny. There’s no correlation.
Once again with the playing stupid to act smart. MRA - Men’s Rights Activist. A sexist hate group under the guise of being activism. FRA - Fat Rights Activism. An ableist hate group under the guise of being activism
Fatphobia is not real and you should be glad that by the rules of how our society works, it could never be. Be glad you’re privileged instead of roleplaying oppression.
Girl what does being rich have to do with any of this?? You're just throwing random shit at me at this point. I also don't know what the hell "fat rights activism" has to do with being ableist. Also weird that you assume I'm a "fat rights activist" when pretty much all i said was that medical fatphobia is a thing that happens. I barely ever post about fatphobia, i have more posts about David Bowie than i do about whatever you call "FRA" Not to mention you still haven't pointed out a single actual privilege that fat people have over thin people and you keep saying that I'm "playing dumb" for not knowing these niche ass terms, i just genuinely have no idea what you're talking about, and how would someone playing dumb make them look smart? Not a single thing you've said so far has made a lick of sense and I'm genuinely not sure at this point if you seriously believe anything you're saying or if you're just being an ass on purpose. Either way you're weird af
“Why do you assume I’m ableist? All I saw is I want to kill all disabled people”
I can’t believe I’m explaining things that you already know to you. You play dumb so the person criticizing you looks crazy and you look like the smart one who doesn’t know any of the crazy stuff,
All fat people are rich. This is a just a fact. You can’t deny it.
Medical fatphobia, like all forms of fatphobia, doesn’t exist. Fat people are given the best quality medical care.
i mean to be honest if a group of people are dying at a disproportionate rate due to medical professionals refusing to treat them or delaying urgent treatment because of something that they either can't control or takes a very long time to change, that sounds a hell of a lot like discrimination and systemic oppression to me. But I digress.
a bad thing can be happening to two groups of people at once. Revolutionary concept, i know. Although clearly not as revolutionary as creating an entire blog dedicated to hating people with a different body type than you, you really changed the game with that one.
What I’m saying is “I don’t hate fat people. Factually speaking nobody hates fat people as a group. Fat people are inherently a privileged group, and this is a well known fact”
Meanwhile you’re just playing dumb to make yourself look smart.
Also I like you act surprised that I think the FRA is fat. Do you see any woman or nonbinary people who are MRAs? Didn’t think so.
You compared pointing out that rich people aren’t oppressed to misogyny. There’s no correlation.
Once again with the playing stupid to act smart. MRA - Men’s Rights Activist. A sexist hate group under the guise of being activism. FRA - Fat Rights Activism. An ableist hate group under the guise of being activism
Fatphobia is not real and you should be glad that by the rules of how our society works, it could never be. Be glad you’re privileged instead of roleplaying oppression.
Girl what does being rich have to do with any of this?? You're just throwing random shit at me at this point. I also don't know what the hell "fat rights activism" has to do with being ableist. Also weird that you assume I'm a "fat rights activist" when pretty much all i said was that medical fatphobia is a thing that happens. I barely ever post about fatphobia, i have more posts about David Bowie than i do about whatever you call "FRA" Not to mention you still haven't pointed out a single actual privilege that fat people have over thin people and you keep saying that I'm "playing dumb" for not knowing these niche ass terms, i just genuinely have no idea what you're talking about, and how would someone playing dumb make them look smart? Not a single thing you've said so far has made a lick of sense and I'm genuinely not sure at this point if you seriously believe anything you're saying or if you're just being an ass on purpose. Either way you're weird af
“Why do you assume I’m ableist? All I saw is I want to kill all disabled people”
I can’t believe I’m explaining things that you already know to you. You play dumb so the person criticizing you looks crazy and you look like the smart one who doesn’t know any of the crazy stuff,
All fat people are rich. This is a just a fact. You can’t deny it.
Medical fatphobia, like all forms of fatphobia, doesn’t exist. Fat people are given the best quality medical care.
i mean to be honest if a group of people are dying at a disproportionate rate due to medical professionals refusing to treat them or delaying urgent treatment because of something that they either can't control or takes a very long time to change, that sounds a hell of a lot like discrimination and systemic oppression to me. But I digress.
a bad thing can be happening to two groups of people at once. Revolutionary concept, i know. Although clearly not as revolutionary as creating an entire blog dedicated to hating people with a different body type than you, you really changed the game with that one.
What I’m saying is “I don’t hate fat people. Factually speaking nobody hates fat people as a group. Fat people are inherently a privileged group, and this is a well known fact”
Meanwhile you’re just playing dumb to make yourself look smart.
Also I like you act surprised that I think the FRA is fat. Do you see any woman or nonbinary people who are MRAs? Didn’t think so.
You compared pointing out that rich people aren’t oppressed to misogyny. There’s no correlation.
Once again with the playing stupid to act smart. MRA - Men’s Rights Activist. A sexist hate group under the guise of being activism. FRA - Fat Rights Activism. An ableist hate group under the guise of being activism
Fatphobia is not real and you should be glad that by the rules of how our society works, it could never be. Be glad you’re privileged instead of roleplaying oppression.
i mean to be honest if a group of people are dying at a disproportionate rate due to medical professionals refusing to treat them or delaying urgent treatment because of something that they either can't control or takes a very long time to change, that sounds a hell of a lot like discrimination and systemic oppression to me. But I digress.
a bad thing can be happening to two groups of people at once. Revolutionary concept, i know. Although clearly not as revolutionary as creating an entire blog dedicated to hating people with a different body type than you, you really changed the game with that one.
What I’m saying is “I don’t hate fat people. Factually speaking nobody hates fat people as a group. Fat people are inherently a privileged group, and this is a well known fact”
Meanwhile you’re just playing dumb to make yourself look smart.
Also I like you act surprised that I think the FRA is fat. Do you see any woman or nonbinary people who are MRAs? Didn’t think so.
i mean to be honest if a group of people are dying at a disproportionate rate due to medical professionals refusing to treat them or delaying urgent treatment because of something that they either can't control or takes a very long time to change, that sounds a hell of a lot like discrimination and systemic oppression to me. But I digress.
a bad thing can be happening to two groups of people at once. Revolutionary concept, i know. Although clearly not as revolutionary as creating an entire blog dedicated to hating people with a different body type than you, you really changed the game with that one.
i mean to be honest if a group of people are dying at a disproportionate rate due to medical professionals refusing to treat them or delaying urgent treatment because of something that they either can't control or takes a very long time to change, that sounds a hell of a lot like discrimination and systemic oppression to me. But I digress.
i know this isn't necessarily a popular take but can we please not act like fat people are a minority group. being fat is, for ALMOST ALL PEOPLE outside of EXTREMELY NICHE CIRCUMSTANCES, a lifestyle choice/a result of poor nutrition education. In the US, a majority of people are obese. Fat people aren't a minority group. Being fat isn't fun but it's also not something that could get you literally killed or targeted in legislation.
Fat people aren't an oppressed group. And to say it's just as much oppression as being a target of gender, sexual, or racial discrimination is extremely insulting to actual minorities.
Sincerely, a fat trans guy who's been obese/overweight his entire life.
It’s actually the opposite. The uptake is FRA posting is a symptom of the current wave of fascism. The decrease in people like me calling out FRA bs is contributing.
FRA stuff is spreading to other platforms. It’s not just tumblr drama. It’s a branch of fascism. And it’s only getting more prevalent.
“The real goal is to create community for other disabled people” False.
You’re an FRA. Your goal is not to create a safe community. There is no such thing as a disabled ally who is an FRA. You are an evil person, pretending to be disabled pretending to care about disabled people, all so you and your FRA friends can sick your teeth into us, use us to benefit you, and then you throw us away.
I do believe you wanted to attract disabled people, but the truth is that it wasn’t to create a comfort community.
The truth is that you are an evil person who seeks to harm others.
I am only answering this ask in public because I want all y’all to see the vitriol that disabled, disability advocates get. THIS is ableism.
(FRA = faking disability, apparently. I had to Google this.)
I am multiply physically disabled. Most of the time I am able to look able bodied because I use CONCEALED mobility aids, and I only go to accessible places. This comes at great cost to myself. If I used mobility aids that could do their job instead of doing two things at once, I’d be better off.
I believe disability rights are human rights, and that the human rights of people everywhere are constantly being fought for and defended. Am I a fascist for saying we live in a fascist state which doesn’t take care of us, so we must take care of our own?
I now respectfully ask that you no longer participate on this blog. You haven’t come to this blog in good faith, and I have answered your asks in good faith. It’s not allowed to outright accuse that the disabled people running this blog are faking disability, or that we are evil people. We do the best we can with the knowledge we have.
You aren’t receiving vitriol for advocating for the disabled. You’re being rightfully called out for being an ableist bastard.
FRA = Fat Rights Advocate. A Group of evil people who claim fat people are oppressed as an excuse to hate disabled people.
If you genuinely believe in disability rights you wouldn’t pretend fatphobia is real. You are facist for wishing for the genocide of disabled people.
You are a twisted evil person who accuses all of the disabled people who hate you for being ableist, of being ableist themselves. You are a deflecting asshole who only seeks to harm disabled people and spread hate.
There are no disabled FRAs. Just like there are no women MRAs. You are a horrible pathetic evil person who only seeks to hate. And you spread lies and rumors against the disabled people who fight back against your bigotry.
That is ableism.
Fat liberation is the idea that fat people deserve the same dignity and rights as non-fat people, essentially.
Not only if we’re “healthy,” not only if we’re trying to lose weight, not only if we exist to help others feel good about themselves, and not only if we’re not “encouraging obesity.” There’s no if ands or buts.
We deserve equal medical care, access to clothes, chairs, transportation, etc, the right to be believed about our own bodies, and safety from harassment, discrimination, and violence.
Fat liberation is recognizing that fat people aren’t tragedies to prevent, or horrors to be gawked at. We are just people living our lives like everyone else.
And in trans spaces specifically (so, where I’m at), fat liberation means understanding that fat bodies transition beautifully. Nobody needs to lose weight to transition or feel comfortable in their own skin. Fat trans people have the right to gender affirming healthcare, euphoria, and respect!
Fat liberation is an anti disabled hate group masquerading as body positivity. It’s pretending rich entitled assholes are oppressed so they can speak over real minorities.
I don’t harass anyone. I am disabled myself and enjoy speaking about disability activism. Meanwhile @i-suggest-employment has dedicated an entire blog to harassing disabled and queer people
So then this is what, an empathetic and respectful response to somebody saying they have a hard time making friends with people who aren’t like them?
Sure you don’t. And that’s only the first thing I saw from you. I didn’t think people still wasted their time dedicating whole accounts to this. It’s annoying unprovocative spam that doesn’t even try to hide the fact it’s a troll. You got a block counter running or what?
Oh my god the person who has constantly dealt with people who treat me like I’m sub human dirt doesn’t have patience for people who treat me like sub human dirt?
And oh my god people are allowed to make jokes about their oppressors?
You’re like the tumblr equivalent of those “zero tolerance” anti bullying policies where you punish the victim and not the perpetrator
areudirty
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