I’ve (finally) started work on the next and final section of the Trial (if we can call it that. Decision of Punishment?)
So, here are the arguments submitted so far. This is a last call for anyone who wants to submit before I update the fic, which will probably be within a week.
Before then, please submit if you like, and/or notify me if I’ve missed someone.
Some comments have minor editing--a few lines unrelated to the trial removed from the beginning or end, or formatting altered--but otherwise are unchanged.
Itinerant Reader (FFN)
Huh. Grillbz started with good intentions (getting the monsters out of the Underground), but it went off the rails as soon as he decided killing was an acceptable way to do it. (In canon Undertale, one could argue Asgore made the same mistake.) There need to be consequences for his actions, but perhaps some mercy is appropriate for his motives.
^^^in private message:
I suppose one could argue that perhaps the initial decision was due to some sort of psychotic break – but that's almost worse under the circumstances, because I don't know how anyone would be able to predict or prevent it from happening again. Grillbz would be a walking time bomb unless someone could figure it out. But I don't get the impression that this is the case. I still think it was a conscious, sane (though wrong) decision that snowballed into total disaster. I already argued he acted on wrong principles. Maybe he also acted on wrong information – for example, perhaps he believed that there was no time to look for another option, for some reason, and so had to take the fastest possibility that had a chance of success? That sort of thing wouldn't justify the action, but would help provide a rational cause.
Sirrius The Moonblade (FFN)
Hmm, well the intentions were good but the course to get the desired outcome was bad. The fact is is that he DID willingly kill, to gain EXP and LV. For "good reasons", but he did kill nevertheless. That should be grounds enough for Excecution.
But, it's also obvious that he is mentally unstable right now. It seems he was overall aware of his actions, but he's also confused on his own thinking. So pleading insanity (which would be mercy in this case) would also be applicable.
Overall I am undecided. Pay for his crimes? Or be forgiven for his instability? A high EXP/LV Grillbz would make for an interesting story when other things occur, but is he too dangerous to keep around?
eriecanary (Tumblr)
Alrighty so rationally, I don’t think monsters would let him live after all he’s done unless he does something to prove himself. If Toriel shows him mercy now, there is going to be a lot of resistance and hate towards her decision and it wouldn’t make much sense, I mean they can’t just let a mass serial killer run loose in the Underground.
If they DID spare him, then he would have to be required to do service. What service idk maybe strengthening the shield? (Kind of pointless when the shield is made to protect everyone from him anyway right?) He would also have to be in isolation away from all other monsters. Well maybe besides the queen, Gaster, and Wis. Anyway that’s not so much of my argument as it is conditions necessary for Grillbz not to die […]
And now that I’ve said all that I realize that they could always send Grillbz into exile. It depends on how much they’ve explored the Underground though. I know there are people in Snowdin (right?), but are there any in Waterfall and Hotland yet? […]
procrastinatingbookworm (AO3)
There is, of course, the most common and accurate defense: innocent by reason of insanity. All accounts of the story seem to conclude that Grillby's action were a direct result of some sort of madness or battle fever. However, without an established prison to hold him in, or a system of laws to devise his punishment, or proof that the madness was a singular, temporary event, the most logical conclusion would be to execute him.
Robotic Waffle (FFN Guest)
Okay. Um...I get kinda nervous when stating my opinion. I'm just going to make a really stupid point, that, um...from one perspective...killing him may be more of an act of mercy? I mean, the other monsters are certainly not going to accept him after he basically did a Genocide run. And if he comes to realize what he did and how terrible it was, he may not want to be able to live with himself. [...] …I dunno, it's just a perspective that can be considered.
I don't think he should be confined for life or anything like that, because I've heard that that can just make people's mental states worse.
Yeah. I have...I have spoken, I guess.
AgentBengalTiger (AO3)
murrcie
because mercy is always the right answer when it comes to undertale! right?
of course, mercy might not be possible, but they should at least do the best they can. they don't need more dead monsters. if they can find a way to assure that grillbz won't kill anyone else, then they don't really have a reason to execute him.
he needs a therapist, tho. help that poor sick fire boy.
I'm going to argue for: FIGHT/MERCY. The monsters decide to kill Grillbz but before the execution can take place a private individual helps him to escape, possibly forcefully since he seems resigned to the trial's judgment. Why? Because it would be more interesting. But also because it could lead to more drama later on if he comes back. (Said individual could be Wis or Gaster)
Ayla Skyrider (FFN)
For the honor, and justice, of all those who have died at your hands, I cannot argue mercy. What you have done is an extension of what the humans have done to us. I hear my friends saying you deserve to die. I won't say they're wrong.
And yet, because of what the humans have done to us, I do not wish further killing. Any of us killed - any of us - is one less of a shrinking group. If we kill each other - no matter what reason - the humans win.
I'll say one thing. How could you have been so arrogant as to think you were the only one to free us? Did you think we couldn't work together? Did you think we were somehow weaker?
Talk to us. Answer me that.
Can we work together?
ColorfulVegetable (AO3 Anon)
I would say the final decision should be influenced by several factors.
First : Grillbz sure is guilty, but can he be held fully responsible for what he has done ? As a certain bookworm has already said, we can guess from the story that he was not really himself while doing those things. It's not very difficult to imagine that one can lose their senses after enduring such a big trauma as living through a horrible war and ending up trapped underground. However, although the "I have to kill monsters to get stronger and free us all" argument doesn't really make sense, as Grillbz says himself, it does make him sound like a psycho - a traumatized psycho maybe, but still a dangerous murdery dude. To me his temporary insanity should be taken into account and incline the final decision towards mercy, but it will all depend on the way he speaks about how everything happened. Which leads us to the second point.
Second point (woah I bet you weren't expecting that now) : does Grillbz regret what he has done ? Surely he does, since you described him as a "soft friendly muffin". But as a result (and since his mind must still be kind of hazy), he probably thinks of himself lowly and is just waiting for death at this point, so he might not even try to plead and make the monsters understand his regret. If monsters (well, especially Toriel) get his distress and sincere regret, then maybe they can consider mercy. Again, it all depends on how he is going to answer Toriel's questions (I kind of doubt Gaster would/could raise his voice in Grillbz's favor here), yet it is (in my opinion at least) the most important factor that determines to what extent he should be forgiven or not.
Third big thing to consider (and probably the one which will actually have the most drastic influence on the verdict) : if spared, is Grillbz going to do that again ? I guess that will be determined when the trial continues. If yes (as in "he's too unstable to be trusted"), the most logical solution would be death sentence, to protect what's left of monsterkind since containing him in a prison seems difficult in the current circumstances. If not, then I think mercy can (must) be chosen - and is probably the solution Toriel will go for. Executing him won't bring back any of the monsters he killed anyway. So wouldn't it be too easy (and I think Toriel would say it's too cowardly) to simply kill him ? It would add more grief without righting any wrong. Moreover, I can't picture Toriel acting out of a desire for revenge, so I don't believe she'll listen to her people when they ask her for a death sentence, unless she is forced to.
Anyway, I think the monsters should continue asking Grillbz questions and listen to how he answers, so they can assess his state of mind when he commited the murders as well as his level of regret, and determine whether he's still dangerous or not. Then, if that's possible in terms of collective safety, they should let him live and make him work under the Queen's supervision to help rebuilding the monsters' civilization. The hate he will get from the entire monsterkind will be a hard enough punishment, and making him help monster society is a better attempt at justice than just killing him.
Alrighty, so in the end, Grillby believes that he's doing the right thing to help out Monster-kind. I mean, I kind of understand the desperation of getting everybody out of the Underground, but at the same time-with everyone being trapped together-the population is probably not that high, and at this time, more than ever, monsters need to stay together in order to work out how to survive the situation they're in, and come up with some solution to escape. Now, Grillby was confused about the Moldsmals, but I feel like he did know that they were monsters. He was probably so wrapped up in this "get everyone out of the Underground, this place is horrible" mindset that all he could think of was gaining EXP. He was very desperate.
Unfortunately, as much of a Grillby fan as I am, I cannot argue Mercy for him in this story. I say this in agreement with some comments I've read. Like, he's really mentally screwed up after everything that's happened. Yeah, leaving him to deal with the consequences of what he's done is a powerful punishment, but being left to continue to mentally deteriorate will cause him to (probably) make worse decisions in the future. I'm only not saying to directly choose FIGHT, because I think Toriel and the others should hear him out more, because it feels like he has so much more to say about his mindset in doing this. At least let him speak as much as possible so they can get an understanding of why he did what he did, 'cause he's only said a little bit so far.
@eriecanary @procrastinatingbookworm @convenientalias submissions
You are all being very calm and rational about this, probably because none of you have had your extended family incinerated in the recent past.
janainaart
vaporwave
baratheonpilled
andulkaphoto
pixelskylines
areudirty
germansingergirl