I feel like Iâve probably answered this a dozen times over the last six months, so Iâll try to make it quick:
We never see Korra show any romantic interest in Asami until that final scene. Her actions and behavior throughout the rest of the season become significantly more consistent if you assume that she went along with Asamiâs obvious interest because she felt bad about what happened.
Korra doesnât really act like herself around Asami and usually feels like she has to hold back when theyâre together. Thatâs neither healthy nor a good sign for a lasting relationship (see: Makorra in Book 2, before Mako realized it was possible to disagree with people who you donât intend to burn bridges with).
Korra has already done something that Asami isnât aware of but would be plausibly upset about. Asami consistently reacts with bitterness at perceived betrayals, and Korraâs physical closeness to Kuvira â the woman who killed Asamiâs father in front of her â seems like the sort of thing that would easily read as a betrayal.
Ikkin I love you and I usually value your analysis, but I actually disagree here. I hope Iâm not speaking out of any bias - I still consider myself a multishipper, and a disciple of the holy trinity makorrasami - so I hope Iâve gathered enough insight from both sides to have good insight.Â
Disagreement is fine, and Iâm certainly not going to accuse you of any bias for not agreeing with me. ;) With that said, Iâd like to explain where Iâm coming from, too.
Wondering how Makorra shippers would've responded to the finale if Makorra happened instead of Korrasami. Y'all like to say that you'd still be trashing it, but...Would you really though? Would you reeeaaalllyyyy? Hmm...
they fought a giant robot with balloons of paint and the last major event was a minor characterâs wedding while korra got no public recognition from the city leadership -a city which was left in a post-apocalyptic state of ruin- and then she had a convo with tenzin (who was basically absent the entire season) where she literally said that she needed to go through her suffering to learn compassion and then - even though sheâd been yearning for years to get back to the city and people she loved - goes on a vacation to the spirit world so no matter who she walked off with at that point it was already absolutely awful. if it was mako the only difference in my reaction would be âwell at least makorra happenedâ
also you can literally go back in my archive and see my posts in the weeks leading up to the finale about how book 4 was the worst season and that i was really upset about it but was holding out for the finale to be better
Iâm not sure how much sense it makes to assume that a hypothetical Makorra ending would have looked like the ending we got (just with Mako swapped out for Asami). I mean, as aggravating as the content of that final conversation was, it was in line with the way Korra had acted towards Asami earlier in the season (i.e. unnecessarily and uncharacteristically apologetic) â Korra never interacted with Mako in that way even in Book 4, probably because they already had a distinctive manner of interacting with each other.
So if the show did end with Makorra⊠that last scene probably would have looked very different. The most natural way to do it would be to extend out the scene they already had, where Mako promised to follow her into battle, and use it to show his admiration and love for her.
If that scene was switched to after the Tenzin scene and ended with a focus on that admiration as the reason for them rekindling their love (which it would have had to have been to end with something happy)⊠well, it wouldnât fix everything (not by a long shot!), but it would put the focus in the right place at the end of the show, and I think that would have felt a lot different than what we got. And, of course, if Mako and Korra end up as a battle couple, the vacation thing goes out the window.
The Korra-Asami dynamics themselves contributed heavily to the sour note the show ended on (shipping aside!), and I think itâs important to take that into consideration.
why do you think that the Korrasami ending has been called brave since the media and sites like Tumbler and Reddit embraced it no matter how much it doesn't make since in story. What would be brave is it future writes said you know what Korrasami makes no sense and it isn't good for Korra let's not have Korra and Asami stay friends, have her hook up with Mako and develop a bond with Kuvira like you have that would be brave
Because itâs brave in the context of society as a whole to have a same-sex relationship in a kidsâ show.
Of course, society as a whole really doesnât care about a show like LoK, which mostly stopped aiming at kids a few seasons ago and wasnât even airing on cable when the final scene happened, but the risk of backlash was there if the wrong people found out about it, and that backlash could have been really nasty under different circumstances.
But, yeah, at this point, itâd be way more of a risk to admit that the relationship never made any sense⊠but thatâs mostly because the people theyâd risk offending by backtracking actually care (instead of, yâknow, not knowing the show even exists). The potential negative consequences wouldnât be anywhere near as severe as they might have been had LoK been big in the public consciousness, but the chances of them happening is way, way higher.
people don't exist in a vacuum. humans grow & change & bounce off each other, influencing & under influence all the time. just because korra was 1 way with mako doesn't mean it's out of character or unhealthy to be another way with asami. atla was about a peaceful and diplomatic aang learning how to fight, lok was about a brash korra learning how to be more diplomatic & calm. asami brought that out in her. their interactions were mostly easy and uncomplicated, what I'd look for in a partner tbh
People grow and change and bounce off of each other, but they usually remain recognizably them, and when they donât, itâs a bad thing.
Aang learned to stand strong and fight, but his core characterization existed from the first episode of his show to the last, both in his role as Avatar and in his romance with Katara.
Korra learned to be more diplomatic and calm, but her forceful and aggressive nature never left, at least in her role as Avatar. Even at the end of the series, her old anti-heroic edge is still there, both in her willingness to engage in kidnapping and hostage taking and in her cold pragmatism towards Hiroshiâs sacrifice. That Korra is completely absent in her relationship with Asami, and it makes her less interesting to watch when Asami is around. (And, honestly, itâs not possible to have an easy and uncomplicated relationship with Korra if Korraâs acting like herself =P )
people don't exist in a vacuum. humans grow & change & bounce off each other, influencing & under influence all the time. just because korra was 1 way with mako doesn't mean it's out of character or unhealthy to be another way with asami. atla was about a peaceful and diplomatic aang learning how to fight, lok was about a brash korra learning how to be more diplomatic & calm. asami brought that out in her. their interactions were mostly easy and uncomplicated, what I'd look for in a partner tbh
People grow and change and bounce off of each other, but they usually remain recognizably them, and when they donât, itâs a bad thing.
Aang learned to stand strong and fight, but his core characterization existed from the first episode of his show to the last, both in his role as Avatar and in his romance with Katara.
Korra learned to be more diplomatic and calm, but her forceful and aggressive nature never left, at least in her role as Avatar. Even at the end of the series, her old anti-heroic edge is still there, both in her willingness to engage in kidnapping and hostage taking and in her cold pragmatism towards Hiroshiâs sacrifice. That Korra is completely absent in her relationship with Asami, and it makes her less interesting to watch when Asami is around. (And, honestly, itâs not possible to have an easy and uncomplicated relationship with Korra if Korraâs acting like herself =P )
One of the things that I don't like about KS is that neither of them influence each other in a positive way or balance eachother out. Makorra on the other hand is the opposite for example how did Mako go from the emotional closed gruff firebender into a cop who creaks lames jokes at criminals it's was Korra's influence on him and MAko balances Korra out but having cooler head than her like in Revelation but he doesn't dose her fire in spirit. They both need and influence eachother out 1/2
Korrasami is the opposite how does Asami need Korra in her life sheâs exactly the same at the end as she was at the beginning and how has Korra been influenced by Asami in a positive way I canât think of any except that she constantly apologize and has to hold her power back to make Asami happy thatâs not balance no matter what Bryan and Michael say and thatâs why I support Makorra they need each other and balance the other perfectly. 2/2
Yeah⊠Korraâs influence on Mako was enormous. Her influence on Asami is⊠largely based on the stuff that happens around them than anything inherent to Korra as a person. And, on the other side, Asamiâs influence on Korra seems to be almost entirely counterproductive. =/ Itâs definitely a turn-off for me; seeing the characters grow and change because of their relationship with their partner is basically the sole engagement I can find in shipping (which is why ships like Makorra and Korvira appeal so much).
One of the things that I don't like about KS is that neither of them influence each other in a positive way or balance eachother out. Makorra on the other hand is the opposite for example how did Mako go from the emotional closed gruff firebender into a cop who creaks lames jokes at criminals it's was Korra's influence on him and MAko balances Korra out but having cooler head than her like in Revelation but he doesn't dose her fire in spirit. They both need and influence eachother out 1/2
Korrasami is the opposite how does Asami need Korra in her life sheâs exactly the same at the end as she was at the beginning and how has Korra been influenced by Asami in a positive way I canât think of any except that she constantly apologize and has to hold her power back to make Asami happy thatâs not balance no matter what Bryan and Michael say and thatâs why I support Makorra they need each other and balance the other perfectly. 2/2
Yeah⊠Korraâs influence on Mako was enormous. Her influence on Asami is⊠largely based on the stuff that happens around them than anything inherent to Korra as a person. And, on the other side, Asamiâs influence on Korra seems to be almost entirely counterproductive. =/ Itâs definitely a turn-off for me; seeing the characters grow and change because of their relationship with their partner is basically the sole engagement I can find in shipping (which is why ships like Makorra and Korvira appeal so much).
One of my biggest problems with Korrasami is that Korra is not a subtle person. Did you guys see her with Mako? She was so damn into him, you could see it miles away. With Asami? I simply see nothing from Korra's side.
Same here. Itâd be possible to develop a ship subtly given the right characters, but Korra is⊠decidedly not the right character for that sort of thing, and treating her as such had seriously negative implications for her character arc as a whole.
I donât wish to be long winded in this but I have a feeling it will be.
 We all know and have seen how Korra is in love or even with a crush- she is passionate about it and excited. Yet flip over to Asami and everything is muted and toned down when it comes to Korra herself yet Asamiâs personality and reactions are still the same, itâs like Asami didnât change but Korra did. Subtle does not work for a main character, yes Korra has gotten older and wiser but that should not make her do a 180 with personality and passions. I know they could not overtly show Korra x Asami but there were still 1000x other ways to show their connection and show how well these two work as a pair.Â
Exactly. Asamiâs still Asami, but Korra is completely unrecognizable. =/ Itâs like they forgot that Korra had no problem putting herself out there and wrote in a couple of interactions that vaguely mimicked a stereotypical blushy girl responding to a love interest instead of actually considering how Korra would react.
The sad fact is- I have no clue what Korra likes about Asami, no idea. I donât even know when Korra even considered liking Asami for that matter. Yet we all know when Korra had a crush on Mako, and I sorta have an idea when Asami started having a crush on Korra.Â
I agree. The entire relationship is a blank slate on Korraâs side â thereâs nothing certain about any of it, just individual interpretations of interactions that could be interpreted in a number of different ways.
I donât hate Korra x Asami I just donât believe it carries any weight, itâs a cute match with no substance. In this pairing I only see Korra still searching for things Asami canât provide. Also I donât think Asami takes distance well and thatâs something she is going to have to face with Korra. Not once did Asami (as a friend) have the ability to fully comfort Korra, she tried just like Mako tried but neither of them were successful. Korra will not have Tenzin forever so you canât just fall back on him to be the one to bring wisdom and comfort in a distressing time . We all want Korra to be happy, but I think Korra should have showed a bit more passion/love towards Asami in the show if this was going to be a pair. Just more compliments, more laughs more just one on one conversations to show what it was in Asami that captured Korraâs heart. Then maybe things would not feel so off and unbalanced.Â
I donât see Korra searching for things Asami canât provide for the simple reason that I donât see Korra searching for anything from Asami. That side of the relationship just doesnât even exist, as far as what was put on screen. =/
I do agree that Asami isnât the sort of person who takes distance well â Book 1 made that much pretty clear. And, as you suggested, distance is inevitable when dealing with the Avatar.
Honestly, Mako was more successful at comforting Korra than Asami was, because Mako was able to give her the support she asked for instead of offering her support that she didnât need and didnât appreciate. >_>;
As for Korraâs happiness, thatâs the crux of the problem to me. We never really saw any reason to think Korra would be happier with Asami as a love interest than remaining friends only. The show apparently wants us to think thatâs the case, but it offers nothing to back it up, and basically has Korra concede to what Asami wants throughout the entirety of Book 4. =/
To be honest- even though its a creative team and a group of writers, romance really seems to be a downfall for themÂ
Yeah⊠itâs really sad that the best romantic arc they wrote was between two characters they believed theyâd broken up forever. >_>;
why do you think that the Korrasami ending has been called brave since the media and sites like Tumbler and Reddit embraced it no matter how much it doesn't make since in story. What would be brave is it future writes said you know what Korrasami makes no sense and it isn't good for Korra let's not have Korra and Asami stay friends, have her hook up with Mako and develop a bond with Kuvira like you have that would be brave
Because itâs brave in the context of society as a whole to have a same-sex relationship in a kidsâ show.
Of course, society as a whole really doesnât care about a show like LoK, which mostly stopped aiming at kids a few seasons ago and wasnât even airing on cable when the final scene happened, but the risk of backlash was there if the wrong people found out about it, and that backlash could have been really nasty under different circumstances.
But, yeah, at this point, itâd be way more of a risk to admit that the relationship never made any sense⊠but thatâs mostly because the people theyâd risk offending by backtracking actually care (instead of, yâknow, not knowing the show even exists). The potential negative consequences wouldnât be anywhere near as severe as they might have been had LoK been big in the public consciousness, but the chances of them happening is way, way higher.
Follow up: if you don't like Claude NOW you really won't like him in Three Hopes. Like legit, for a good couple of moments he singlehandedly ceased the Edelgard vs Dimitri discourse and united both sides against him. Funnily apropos in my opinion. If I could describe him, he's not necessarily AS ruthless as Edelgard but he's definitely just as dirty at least from a political angle.
I can 100% see that.
You know what, I'm gonna gather all my thoughts on Claude here and now so people can understand.
Originally I didn't mind Claude much in the Crimson Flower route. He and Dimitri, like Edelgard in Verdant Wind, were basically non-entities so I had no reason to dislike him. In the war period, he had far less time dedicated to him than Dimitri, who didn't have much in the first place. By the end, I thought he was an alright guy and given that I looked him up beforehand, I believed that the Verdant Wind route could make a good case for him.
I am currently at Chapter 14 and I highly doubt it. Claude is a deeply annoying and frustrating character. The guy early on has a few moments were he acts like he's going to do some shady and dishonorable shit but he never does. I'm guessing this is supposed to make him out to be the 'dashing rogue' type that he's designed as. But what it actually does is make Claude a dumbass because he knows people are biased against Almyrans and he wants to change that but these acts just give the people around him every reason to be biased against him even WITHOUT knowing his heritage. Just as well, I don't think Claude actually reveals his heritage to anyone in game outside of Byleth (though to be fair, he seems to imply it post-game for Hilda and Leonie at least). If he does in the main game I'll say otherwise but given his Byleth support- I doubt it.
And even if I were to ignore how Claude's general attitude shoots his own ideals in the foot, his goal is basically impossible. He wants to unite Foldan as well as the world to get rid of prejudice. Problem is- One would think that looking at the divided Foldan would hammer into his head: 'Hey...things aren't that simple, are they?' That maybe Claude would instead try to just start making the slow process of opening up the world so things can get better over time right? ... Nah, such complicated things are for lesser beings. Claude is Claude so even despite the fact that he's shooting himself in the foot all the time, he seems to come out on top no matter what!
And I do mean, no matter what. Because in any route besides hers, Edelgard will die. In any route not his, Dimitri will die. In most routes, Rhea can die without a high enough support. In all routes, Claude lives. No really, it's canon that Claude lives in all routes. A trait completely unique to him as a Lord. Going even further, Claude is by far treated with the softest touch by the narrative. In all routes, he's depicted, at worst, as just a good guy trying his best. In all routes, he's the one dragging you onto the dance floor as clearly the fun loving guy. In all routes, his foes don't like fighting him even though other people would make more sense (like Edelgard and Dimitri). This is the key difference between him and Edelgard. Unlike her, where she does show some kind of weakness or vulnerability on her route and outright negative traits on the others- Claude lacks that.
I'll be blunt- the guy comes across as a Mary Sue.
In a previous post, I mentioned that Verdant Wind reminded me of Devil Survivor's Law route. I'll explain here: In Devil Survivor's Law Route, not only do you get an unambiguously good, feel good ending but you also get a proper resolution to the backstory of how your protagonist came to get the power of Bel and their connection to Nayoa. Contrast this with the Chaos route (which lacks the happy ending unless you play the Overlord route in the 8th day AND lacks any major lore), The Neutral Route (which lacks any lore outside it's own characters) and the Atsuro route (which is unique). This alongside the fan favorite Amane being your ally as well as getting the character best suited for the Recarm Loop strategy for the Lucifier superboss. All of this despite the Angels being the worst of the factions, being the ones RESPONSIBLE for trapping you inside the Yamato circle and basically killing whoever doesn't fit their absurd standards while blaming everyone else.
It's the same here. Crimson Flower and (presumably) Azure Moon lack any major reveal of lore and it seems even Silver Snow is more solemn than Verdant Wind. It kind of feels like if you aren't doing the original Silver route, you're pushed to Verdant Wind and Claude. This in spite of the fact that Claude is the worst of the Lords and Rhea.
Could I be wrong and full of it? Completely yes and I welcome any rebuttals though I will push back if I feel that I was not proven wrong. But as for now: i can totally see the Dimitri fans with their better character development and the Edelgard fans with the whole rebel appeal setting their philosophical differences aside to beat the shit out of Claude.
You know, I think Heinkel actually SHOULD get some credit for how he raised Reinhard during the formative years of that kidâs life. Because yes, he has definitely deteriorated as a father figure since then, but this guy was given a toddler who:
Had the powers of a Literal God, and who only seemed to be getting more Godlike by the day
Demonstrated absolutely no qualms about using his godlike powers to actively screw with other peopleâs minds and free will, to the point where the government almost kidnapped the kid because that was such a pants-sproutingly freaky sort of threat
Stole his grandmotherâs Divine Protection because there was a chance that she would die even if she had it, and this five year old assumed that it was more important that âthe Sword Saintâ wouldnât suffer defeat than it was that his grandma had every fighting chance possible
Was explicitly so fucking terrifying that several characters describe looking at this little boy as akin to laying their eyes on some sort of eldritch abomination
and Heinkel somehow managed to raise that kid to value kindness, the lives of other people, and the free will of those around him.
Like, Heinkel probably saved the entire world from undergoing some sort of disaster scenario through his parenting skills during the firstâŠeight or so years of Reinhardâs life. And not just that: however inhuman the guy might be (itâs still up for debate), Reinhard is fundamentally a Good Person, and thatâs in no small part because of the lessons Heinkel explicitly taught him when he was small. Because Reinhard definitely was not born with the understanding that letting people die to uphold the sanctity of their titles is a horrible thing to do, OR that screwing around with peopleâs minds is a really bad idea. If Reinhard had been born to someone like ROWAN or something then this world would be absolutely fucked lmao
fandomsallaroundme
I honestly understand and sympathize with Heinkel a lot more now because the stress of raising an Otherworldly Eldritch Horror Child into a Good and Upstanding Citizen of Lugunica with no help (comatose wife, absent/complicated father) aside from the household servants while dealing with the government's growing concern for your son's unstoppable God powers, the guilt of inadvertently inspiring your son to steal his grandmother's Divine Protection, all while also searching for a cure for your wife would have driven anyone insane, we're just lucky Heinkel loved his son enough (or wasn't smart enough) not to try and manipulate his God powers to blow up something important đ
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sufferu
Original Poster
honestly itâs kind of a miracle he just became a jackass alcoholic
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lukesky010
The biggest irony being that Reinhard being Reinhard was because of something (still not fully confrimed) that Heinkel did so his son would be safe I guess? Then Louanna falls into a coma and all the shit afterwards.
Straight up kicked into the ground and getting kicked year after year till we finally have the pitiful bastard we know now.
You know, I think Heinkel actually SHOULD get some credit for how he raised Reinhard during the formative years of that kidâs life. Because yes, he has definitely deteriorated as a father figure since then, but this guy was given a toddler who:
Had the powers of a Literal God, and who only seemed to be getting more Godlike by the day
Demonstrated absolutely no qualms about using his godlike powers to actively screw with other peopleâs minds and free will, to the point where the government almost kidnapped the kid because that was such a pants-sproutingly freaky sort of threat
Stole his grandmotherâs Divine Protection because there was a chance that she would die even if she had it, and this five year old assumed that it was more important that âthe Sword Saintâ wouldnât suffer defeat than it was that his grandma had every fighting chance possible
Was explicitly so fucking terrifying that several characters describe looking at this little boy as akin to laying their eyes on some sort of eldritch abomination
and Heinkel somehow managed to raise that kid to value kindness, the lives of other people, and the free will of those around him.
Like, Heinkel probably saved the entire world from undergoing some sort of disaster scenario through his parenting skills during the firstâŠeight or so years of Reinhardâs life. And not just that: however inhuman the guy might be (itâs still up for debate), Reinhard is fundamentally a Good Person, and thatâs in no small part because of the lessons Heinkel explicitly taught him when he was small. Because Reinhard definitely was not born with the understanding that letting people die to uphold the sanctity of their titles is a horrible thing to do, OR that screwing around with peopleâs minds is a really bad idea. If Reinhard had been born to someone like ROWAN or something then this world would be absolutely fucked lmao
You know, I think Heinkel actually SHOULD get some credit for how he raised Reinhard during the formative years of that kidâs life. Because yes, he has definitely deteriorated as a father figure since then, but this guy was given a toddler who:
Had the powers of a Literal God, and who only seemed to be getting more Godlike by the day
Demonstrated absolutely no qualms about using his godlike powers to actively screw with other peopleâs minds and free will, to the point where the government almost kidnapped the kid because that was such a pants-sproutingly freaky sort of threat
Stole his grandmotherâs Divine Protection because there was a chance that she would die even if she had it, and this five year old assumed that it was more important that âthe Sword Saintâ wouldnât suffer defeat than it was that his grandma had every fighting chance possible
Was explicitly so fucking terrifying that several characters describe looking at this little boy as akin to laying their eyes on some sort of eldritch abomination
and Heinkel somehow managed to raise that kid to value kindness, the lives of other people, and the free will of those around him.
Like, Heinkel probably saved the entire world from undergoing some sort of disaster scenario through his parenting skills during the firstâŠeight or so years of Reinhardâs life. And not just that: however inhuman the guy might be (itâs still up for debate), Reinhard is fundamentally a Good Person, and thatâs in no small part because of the lessons Heinkel explicitly taught him when he was small. Because Reinhard definitely was not born with the understanding that letting people die to uphold the sanctity of their titles is a horrible thing to do, OR that screwing around with peopleâs minds is a really bad idea. If Reinhard had been born to someone like ROWAN or something then this world would be absolutely fucked lmao
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EDIT: I changed from directly linking what Iâm talking about below to a public discord server link where the thing resides because apparently I heard Tumblr has much more strict copyright enforcement then Discord and I donât wanna be caught up in that even if I have no idea 100% on how rights work with regards to linking a publicly available resource? Iâve gotten no warnings or anything like that yet, but still donât wanna risk this blog Iâve worked on yâknow? Though if something happens I think I have a pretty strong fair use argument given the extensive commentary accompanying screenshots.
This server contains a compilation by Eminent of the LNâs (and Exâs + Tanpenshuuâs) where it fixes the mistranslations and aligns with fan terms.
I do want to ask someone out there. Does this solve the issues Arc 6 LN has with regards to whatever important plot points I heard it was they screwed up?
If it indeed does so, I might have to seriously consider reading Arc 6 via the LN version here since itâd have no errors & the LN is the canonical stuff so it makes sense to have that as my primary source on an Arc + given it is canonical, Iâd have more confidence when theorycrafting instead of wondering if whatever I went into depth on got nuked in the LN.
At the very least, 100% will be reading Arc 5 this way since I know the LN vs WN for the Arc is quite different.
âIf voting changed anything they would make it illegal.â
âTheyâre importing third world era that are guaranteed to vote them into power.â
??? Does voting matter or not ??? If it didnât, why bother with the demographic change?
Ah, I see your mistake. You're expecting anarchists to have any logical throughline with their beliefs.
In reality, that first sentence is pure horseshit on every level. Not only does voting change things (see: Trump winning twice), but left wing states wouldn't be passing so many laws to make free and fair voting essentially illegal by removing restrictions on non-citizens voting and making it impossible to investigate voting fraud.
It's always funny to me when people give their blorbos all the same "correct" far left political views which while I understand the urge to make these blorbos as progressive as possible as political commentary, there are some characters that I feel in my bones are 100% centrist, pro-ai, pro-capitalism or absolutely refuse to vote and its supported by the source material. As a narrative tool these features are still great for being political commentary, even if the character never changes.
