[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Given In Certain Myths Adam Was Raped By Lilith (This Makes This Art Look Even More Tone Deaf And Ignorant)

Seriously, it certainly scary how much hatred for a character ends up wishing the worst on them as a joke especially when people goon to a rapist who they claim deserves sympathetic to be so-called complex.

[helluvaartcritique]

so, we all agree that hazbin's overuse of similar color palettes is a bad thing, but... why? personally i like the idea of a show set in hell whose characters are all represented by shades of red/black/pink while still being visually distinct character designs, but for some reason that just doesn't work for hazbin. but why not? how would that be improved? is there even a good way for that to be executed well?

There's a multitude of reasons for why everything being the same color doesn't really work (Not just for HH, but HB as well)

1. There's no variety

Variety is important when it comes to character design, and the same thing goes for the colors of the characters. You want to have people be able to point out which character is with from their color palettes

These palettes have variety in their colors. It's not all red, you're able to tell who is who

Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss on the other hand, they're very hard to distinguish.

For Hazbin, which one is Charlie? Which one is Mimzy? Is Husk in this lineup? Is Rosie here? From taking a good look at it, here's who I could figure out

The only ones I knew immediately were Emily and Adam, because their palettes stuck out from the rest of the cast. When only 2 of the characters are recognizable from their palettes, it's not pretty. Hence why diversity is important.

2. It's a problem for colorblind people.

This post explains it better than I can. Go check that out if you want.

In short, this is what people with colorblindness see when watching HH, and as a result, the characters don't stand out well from the background.

Now, how does one improve this?

Make the cast stand out from the background

Having the cast be colors other than red would be a good solution, and even better if each character had a distinct color from the other. (Since it's set in Hell, maybe have the characters be the colors of their respective sins? Just an idea)

It would give our eyes a break, and allow people who are colorblind or have other vision issues to at least see what's going on.

But that's just my idea.

Thanks for the ask!

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Adam Actually Would Love Both Of His Sons

In my headcanon an actual Bible depiction of Adam would love his both of his sons equally, because I could totally see them representing aspects of his old life in Eden. Cain being the farmer and Abel being the shepherd. Cain could grow orchards which would remind him of the trees of Eden he used to attend, while Abel's shepherding would remind him of his love for animals. None of this daddy issues bs with him to make him one dimensional and to try to make Lucifer look better as a father. Make this guy see aspects of himself in his kids and make it even more tragic he couldn't raise them in Eden.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Lute You Are My Spirit Animal

You have the right to slaughter this pos and you and your boss were right about massacring all those sinners who want to play victim while ignoring how unrepentantly evil they were. And since the massacres were there shorter than many overlords they have less reason to cry victim because during those years before they were spreading misery and shit on everyone. It wasn't heaven that made them that way it was themselves who did it.

[fandomcritical]

it's just funny how shortening the exterminations from all of humanity's free will to literally just seven years makes the overlords and all the other morally repulsive sinners look worse for enjoying their afterlife with no punishment. hell isn't functionally anything more than just another realm without the exterminations.

also, let's maybe not use spirit animal in this context? especially if you're not indigenous?

[yapp1ngvicki3]

Something I genuinely HATE about being an Adam fan is that most of the things that makes or could make him an interesting character are mostly made up by the Fandom, because Vivziepop clearly doesn't know what character depth is... Every single thing that could make him a slightly redeemable character are just used to make him look even worse.

Him in Eden? A 2 second scene at most where we only get explained that he was already an asshole since he was created.

Him being betrayed or left by both of his wives? LMAO he deserved it anyway, also let me use that to show how awesome and cool Lucifer is!

His deep hatred for sinners and the fact that he has do little faith in them to be better people, which could be explored and also an interesting character arc to have, I mean, he's literally the father of all of humanity! How can you make that concept not interesti- Oh- He only kills sinners for fun... Okay ig...

Oh! Finally we get introduced to once of his sons! This is the perfect chance to make him have actual depth and some kind of redeeming qualities! Oh never mind, his son is just constantly being reminded of how much Adam hated him.

And I have like, a LOT of more examples of this, it's like Vivzie couldn't be bothered to even try a little bit, which just pmo, because I see the potential in his character.

I might talk about this in another post since I'm too tired rn to make a coherent argument and I don't feel like sounding stupid, anyway, hope yall get my point for now :((

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

I Love How This Hazbin Reddit Thread Calls Bs On Charlie Defending Nifty As Killing Adam In Defense

Seriously, even a lot of the fans are calling this bs out. I know there are fans defending Nifty and Charlie trying to defend her. But I like this comment who point out Charlie's biggest problem.

I also like this comment in this thread laughing at everyone trying so hard to root for the murderers, psychos, and other pos of hell to win.

[twisting-echo]

So I haven’t written one of these in forever, and I guess this counts as an analysis, but honestly it feels more like a “who, what, where, and why the hell did they do Abel like this” kind of ramble-post. I was rewatching some Hazbin Hotel Season 2 episodes last night, and a couple things started poking at my brain, like, “Hey, are we not gonna talk about this?”

When we first get introduced to Abel, the first thing that happens is Lute cutting him off and telling him to shut up because “your father didn’t even like you.” And Abel confirms this with a sad little “I know” and then calls it a “fact.” And then the show doubles down on this when Lute says it again, (the Adam in her head says it), and everyone’s acting like it’s common knowledge that Adam couldn’t stand his own son.

So to me, this makes sense why Abel doesn't seem to be visibly upset and has conflicted feelings about his father being dead. Like in the meeting Sera hosts with St. Peter and Abel, where Abel admits that he doesn't like confrontation or the idea of taking revenge. But what struck me the most was the awkward phrasing, “But they sort of, kind of, killed my dad a little bit. So, maybe I'm pretty okay with either option, to be honest.” Like he’s trying to figure out how he’s supposed to feel about a man who never liked him. I mean, how can you blame him if Adam “didn't even fucking like him"?

And later we see Abel trying to get one of his dad’s guitars “to remember him by,” and even later he prays, “Dear Dad, tell me what you would’ve done. Too bad, that I’m not your braver son.” To me, these two moments really suggest that he felt more love toward his father than Adam ever showed him and that Abel sees himself as a disappointment. To which I ask, why does he see himself as a disappointment if his father didn't make him feel like one?

And here’s the thing that keeps circling back for me: this is not how Abel is treated in the original biblical story. At all! In the Bible, Abel is the beloved son. The innocent one. The baby precious. The one whose death devastates both of his parents. In Bouguereau’s The First Mourning painting, it literally shows Adam and Eve collapsed over Abel’s body in absolute grief. I read that it’s “one of the most famous depictions of parental loss in Western art.” And Hazbin Hotel completely ignores that! Their Abel is the overlooked son, the one nobody wanted, the one who grew up thinking his father hated him.

I'm going to be honest and share a little theory of mine, here: Back when season one first came out, I thought/theorized that Adam is the leader of the exterminators and created them because it had something to do with Cain, his firstborn son, murdering Abel, his second-born son. Because murder is a sin that would directly give Cain a one-way ticket to hell, making him a sinner and Adam wanted to punish Cain and get revenge for Abel.

And the more I think about it, the more it makes me wonder: did Adam even care that his son was murdered by his other son? Because in the biblical story, Abel’s death is a soul-crushing tragedy, and Adam and Eve mourn him deeply.

And what does that mean for Cain? Did Adam favor Cain? Did he bully Abel alongside Adam? Did Adam excuse his sin? Did Adam just not care enough about Abel for it to matter? And how did Adam get to go to heaven if so? Because if Abel grew up believing his father didn’t love him, then what does that say about the family dynamic before the murder even happened?

Ahh! 😫 I don’t know! 😖 I’m just thinking out loud here. 😵 Like, how come Adam is just a surface‑level villain, but all the Vees are villains with feelings and layers? When I first heard that Abel was going to be in season 2, I was honestly hoping we’d get to see a different/interesting side of Adam through Abel. Like, besides Adam just being a major asshole/misogynist, he'd be a silly/loving/nice daddy to Abel or something.

I think it would be interesting if Adam had this subversive soft spot because he’s such an asshole to everyone else, but he’s unexpectedly tender with Abel. And that would make Lute so jealous! She’s used to being Adam’s favorite, and seeing him show love to Abel, something she never gets, would absolutely drive her up a wall.

But nope... 😑

It's just the cliché mean‑dad‑to‑wimpy‑son dynamic.

Not that I think Abel's a wimp, but you get what I mean.

[watertribe-enya]

Some thoughts on the matter:

Adam, no matter how much he actually cares about Abel, probably does a lot of what I call "parental complaining". Either recalling something from the distant past or something that recently happened that somehow had to do with Abel disappointing him( I guess his other kids too). And being Adam he doesn't tell those stories particulary nicely. Abel being sensitive and Lute actively disliking him, may take those things as way meaner than they're actually meant. Think Dr Kelso from Scrubs who does love his kid, but every time he mentions his son to others he complains about him (granted sometimes with very good reason)

Cain doesn't need to have been Adam's favorite for Abel to feel that he was the braver son. Maybe Cain just didn't get scared when he got scolded by his parent(s). Or did stuff Abel didn't dare to do (maybe even pulling his younger brother into his stunts). Or it was Cain who got all of his parents attention, because they constantly had to save him from his own idiocy, making Abel feel neglected in the process.

Or it was the other way around, and Cain truly was the joy of his parents for the longest time. Helping out around the house, very self sufficient, less clumsy than Abel.... We don't know if the sacrifice story played out like in the Bible, but maybe that was the first time Cain truly felt rejection, and in turn handled it very badly. Maybe it was also the first time Abel earned all the praise from the family, after he worked his ass off for once. Maybe Adam had a somewhat normal relationship with both his sons, and just couldn't get attached to Abel after meeting him again (especially if it was Abel who changed first - being the passive scaredy cat from the show - and Adam just doesn't get why Abel isn't fucking pissed instead).

And even if Adam didn't really like Abel all that much while they lived, perhaps he still does the Exterminations as vengeance for that first murder? Sure their lives weren't perfect, but they finally built up something nice. Only for Cain to royally fuck that up, forcing his parents to start from scratch

If you ask me it's most likely that Adam doesn't realize how much his way of talking hurts Abel "So what, I get scolded by the higher ups (for lack of parents) too! Just because I called you a weenie that almost caused the two of us to get eaten by a wolf doesn't mean I don't love you!"

[lime-bucket]

People who claim to love Lilith know shit about her.

Once I wrote in comments that Lilith was a rapist and somebody replied: "Why would she raped somebody who she didn't want reproduce with? Are you even can read?"

Another time when I made video about I got comment saying "Lilith didn't SA Adam." In that video I put google screenshot telling that she did. I replied to the comment saying "But google says that she did." They replied something along the lines. "I know that she didn't." (Like do you know her personally.) I answer with "Can you prove me that she didn't." And I got no answer.

There was post on Reddit about Lilith's orgin (it was a meme. People who know vs people who don't know) and still people call her the first feminist. Feminist? A FUCKING RAPIST?!

Lilith fans force the narrative that she was a victim, like bro, when you talking about her history, talk also about THAT part. It's not so hard to find.

"Well Lilith SA'd Adam, becouse he SA'd her first." Girl, show me the proof.

Adam wasn't even controling. He just didn't want to be at bottom. Which is fine. We should stop shaming Man and male characters not being comfortable with certein sexual things.

I'm still angry that (Hazbin Hotel) Adam is mocked for not liking giving oral sex. If he was a woman people would be on his side.

Btw story of Adam, Eve, Lilith, Sameal and Lucifer and Eden would be treaten differently if genders would be swap.

Adam would be probably shamed for Lilith leaving and Eve eating the Apple, if he was woman and Eve with Lilith were a man. Fem. Adam (Adamina) and Fem. Lucifer (Lucia) or Fem. Sameal (Samantha) would be put in "Madame and Whore complex" categoriesm

Male Eve SA would be forgotten. Female Adam SA'd maybe wouldn't, but she could be shipped with her abuser like orginal Eve.

Eve was raped by serpent in myths and in the show Lucifer (who is the serpent in the show) admits he sleep with Eve and probably Viv creates narrative that she like it? Ew.

Adam and Eve LOVED each other. They had healthy relationship. But she needs to make Lucifer better than Adam in anything, doesn't she?

Sorry that happened to u.but unfortunatly thats the result of modern reimaginings of ancient myth,as they present a safe version of the tale to audience wich when they find the original story,they fund it difficult to come in terms w/ their faves being..not so well liked to put it nicely.i myself had the same issue w/ the story of hades & persephone

Ughh dont remind abt lucifers comment abt eve,wich is just a can of weird/nonsensical implications i dont wanna dive in rn.nontheless i cant rlly agree on the gender swapping parts,theres already narrations mentioning adam was SAd but still got blamed fr it,but never have i heard abt the serpent assaulting eve,maybe its meant in a metaphorical sense?

U can call it overexageration,but i find it insidious when writers make the relationship of adam & eve unhealthy or unequal.since theyre the first humans,is it hard to not believe that love in it its most primitive form wont be beautiful?pure even?

[lime-bucket]

I wanted to talk about some myths about Lilith who shows that "orignal" Lilith suck.

In some myths she raped Eve as a serpent (in other myths it was Sameal or Lucifer instead of Lilith.)

She had sexual relationship with Cain which is VERY weird becouse she had sex with Cain before she assualted Adam and Adam seperated from Eve after Abel's death. Cain when he killed Abel (in Judaism) was 15. So yeah Lilith doesn't stop at adults.

Also I know a story when Lilith take from of woman husband to have sex with that woman to get her pragnent.

I also wanted to add that Lilith in mesopotamian religion was a goddess of demons (I heard that she was also a goddess of Night, but didn't have proof for that.)

Maybe adam...had every right to enjoy killing sinners

But srsly tho theres a high a chance that viv had no idea abt this side of lilith & just went with the pop culture interpretation of her when creating the mother of demons cuz in reality she doesnt seem to rlly be savant abt demonology.but still its still gives me the icks how a rapist character was chosen to have this misunderstood/tragic role in HH esp considering vivzipop track record cough cough stolas cough cough

[exploretheeccentricities]

Thoughts on Adam in Hazbin Hotel? Seen a lot of sympathy going around for him and your recent fic made me curious.

Uhh there is not enough time because I have a tendency to rant but in short he's half and half for me. Like the first time I watched him on the TV series I didn't think much of him except what the show portrayed him as - the arrogant loud-mouthed jerk who's meant to serve as a kind of secondary antagonist to the greater picture and highlight the hypocrisy of mainstream religious interpretations of redemptions and sinners. I became interested on second viewing because I thought about what we know from said religious interpretations and the implications of the show itself as well as the purpose behind Heaven's use of Adam.

Adam is a grey character just as Lucifer and Lilith are. He was directly tied to the first Breakup/Divorce Showdown in history as well as - most bad things in history. He didn't start the whole fiasco with the forbidden fruit out of some vengeful malice (and at this point we don't really know if Lilith and Lucifer did out of such intent either, given the potentially biased story in the beginning). Yes, he's an embodiment of most deadly sins - prideful, controlling, envious, and way too keen about ruthlessly slaughtering hell's sinners for entertainment rather than giving them an ounce of sympathy or a chance for redemption, even the not-so-bad ones. He doesn't take accountability for his actions most of the time.

But he's also the man who was cursed to toil on the earth and tasked to begin humanity with his wife for around 9 centuries, something that Lucifer and Lilith were spared despite their "tempting" him and Eve to sin. The man whose (majority of) descendants ended up burning in hell. The man who presumably watched as all evil things gripped earth - genocide, rape, thievery, abuse - slowly pervading into the lives of his kids. Only to be left to an eternity without any life partner or real purpose, except the satisfaction to gloat "I started the good stuff". In the end, there is a reason he cares about the Heavenly Order more than just fun and self-serving ends. They created him directly from scratch, and are all the authority he's ever known. He has a very rudimentary understanding of "good vs evil", as much needed from his time on earth. He's removed from any capacity to empathise with sinners and only sees them as a waste of his bloodline, thus not real 'human souls' - perhaps because the betrayal and disappointment is too great. He wasn't given a childhood to experiment and grow from, and while he was given all the freedom in heaven, you can see that the afterlife isn't necessarily a place for growth unless you acknowledge there is something to grow from, leaving potential for Adam coming back in season 2.

I'm not saying this excuses his misogyny or his ruthless lack of sympathy or his brash behaviour. Absolutely not. I also don't like it when people only blame Lilith or Eve for how he turned out. Adam is a grownass man who made his own mistakes. That's what makes him compelling.

The show wants to make him the main villain, that's fine. He's the 'original' misogynist and lacks the depth of Alastor and Charlie, the sympathy and charisma of Lucifer and Lilith? That's okay. I'm just saying that his character can be commended on some level as grey because of all this packaged with what he is actually shown to be in the show.

[pushingpesticides]

In his song, Abel called himself "not the bravest son," and his behavior and damaged halo point to Cain...

Tell me, is there any chance that the creators of a show critical of Christianity, who want to revolutionarily rewrite the Adam and Eve myth by making Eve a feminist who can't be blamed for eating an apple (and ultimately creating a completely useless woman with no will or face, who is rescued from a bad relationship by another man, who fucks her, leaves her alone, and her memory is erased even from her son's mind... except for the detail that she unleashed evil upon the world. A so-so interpretation so far, but oh well), have read the Bible, not just skimmed or summarized in other shows, and are aware of such an "insignificant" character as Seth? You know, the third son, from whom the human race descended, the most, so to speak, successful? I'm not even asking about the daughters of Adam and Eve. Apparently, these unfortunate women simply don't exist in the public consciousness.

‎ But still, Seth. What are your bets? I think if Viv adds him to the show, it'll only be because she sees him in fan art and theories (she loves to steal the most successful ideas from there).

PLEASEEE DO NOT PUT SETH IN HAZBIN HOTEL. The biblical narrative around Seth and especially his connection to the curse from God and the overall Hebrew numerology for which the Book is iconic is so vibrant with double meanings and symbolism that I doubt the show’s incredibly literalist interpretation of it will do him any justice. I mean, they already interpreted Cain as “brave” somehow, when there’s nothing brave about killing someone and lying about it, so I fear that Seth being a major patriarch will only lead to an interpretation where he’s pure evil and has no redeeming qualities just like his father in the show. Do not get me started on my fears about other biblical narratives being misinterpreted in this show, it genuinely upsets me so much.

[sitaradawn]

Would you stop watching Hazbin Hotel and leave the fandom if season 3 or season 4 revealed in a flashback that Adam was the one who ruined everything in the Garden of Eden? Not Lucifer. Not Lilith. Not Eve. The First Man was the true monster that ruined everyone’s lives and unleashed evil into Creation. I’m asking this because Viv might go this route for Adam. Season 2 episode 6 showed us Vaggi’s flashbacks of Adam and Lute being cruel to the curly haired exorcist woman. (she was cute)

Every time Adam is on screen we only see his terrible traits. Same goes for Lute too. Adam’s only limited good traits is his relationship with Lute and his gentle smile he gave her before he died. I have a really bad feeling that in season 3 Lilith is going to tell Charlie a story about why Adam is the worse human being God ever created. Lilith is lying and over exaggerating, because she’s still bitter about her hatred towards Adam and the angels in Heaven.

Viv needs to stop making Adam look like a piece of sh*t. Adam is a cool dude! I even cosplayed as him a few times at cons. My heart breaks for Lute. Her mental breakdown in season 2 episode 2 was sad to watch and nobody tried to help her. The realm of Heaven lacks empathy and understanding. This is why Lute feels so isolated and losing her mind. Viv said in an interview that Lute is a sleeper villain and her rage is a ticking time bomb ready to explode at any moment in the next season.

I hope Lute will fight Sera or Emily in a battle of philosophies and beliefs. Sera wants to atone for her past mistakes of unfair judgment to the sinners in Hell, without giving them a chance for redemption. Emily wants happiness and coexistence between Heaven and Hell. The only thing Lute wants is war, bloodshed, and vengeance for Adam’s death. A dreadful storm is coming for Charlie and Vaggi. Lute is going to bring down the gravity! ⚔️ 

In an ideal world, no, I wouldn’t. But sadly I’m involved in fandom shit and this fandom has rabid anti-Adam haters who love to muscle their way into your posts and act superior to you. Or harass you. Or insinuate any number of things about you.

I’d prefer it if the show didn’t give ammo to these morons. It’s bad enough for Val fans and he actually gets to be humanized!

So it wouldn’t be the show being stupid that makes me leave, it would be the assholes who can’t think critically or understand that the show made a stupid writing decision. Shows do it all the time and HH is not exempt from criticism.

That said, I’m still curious about where the show will go. So the only thing that might change is that I’ll probably 🏴‍☠️ it instead of watching it legally since I don’t want to support schlock but still want my curiosity and investment to be paid off.

But it would be very stupid if they went in that direction because this show is supposed to be about shades of gray, not just reversing black & white. It would be illogical to put all the blame on Adam. But I’ve discussed this to death other places. Fact is we won’t know until we know and I’m actually dreading finding out because on one hand it’s seems like they have given us tiny hints that Adam is more complex that meets the eye, but on the other hand I know how people like Viv think and when they see a woman being blamed for something she definitely had a hand in, they like to flip it around and make the man the monster instead of taking a “damn, they all fucked up” approach.

You know, exactly what radfems did with Lilith as a figure. They took a baby killing demonic rapist and made her a Strong Woman Who Don’t Need No Man figure, sanitizing her lore to paint her as a victim of Adam. So I do worry they’ll do with with Eve since allegedly people put the blame on Eve alone, which isn’t even true as Adam is typically the one who gets the blame for the apple, and because as the First Man people like to use him to represent men and masculinity as a whole. Like he’s the embodiment of the patriarchy and needs to be taken down… You know, even tho Biblically Adam saw Eve and went “whoa, she’s wonderful and my equal, my other half” and the language used to describe Eve in Hebrew was the same that was used to describe God as a warrior or rescuer (ezer and ezer kenegdo, i recommend looking it up). It was only when Adam panicked that he tried to blame Eve for tricking him, to which she blamed the serpent, and God was basically all “uh-uh, all y’all done fucked up”.

Meh, anyway, I just don’t want the assholes to have more ammo. I really want to be able to go “Ha! Sweet vindication!” instead. I don’t need Adam to be a saint, I would just like it if he was a human being. I want him to be held to the same standard as all the other characters. For him to be in the wrong but still so painfully human.

[fandomcritical]

this gets reposted on twitter a lot apparently and it's the best thing i've seen in a while related to how the series actually works behind the mask of what it's trying to be without using obviously incriminating terms. for all of adam's faults he was right, even if for the wrong reasons, and unfortunately that will never be acknowledged.

the artist is TioLimonD (private account, so thank you to the one person who gave a name since reverse image search hardly helped with countless results!).

anyway, someone in the quotes of a tweet reposting this called it "genocide apologism"; paraphrasing here, but both words were used 🙄🫩

[dragonbee259]

I genuinely think the only reason Pentious somehow got into Heaven was because his sins (from what we’ve been shown) were EXTREMELY tame (being too scared to report a serial killer)

I remember back when Hazbin Hotel was in its developmental stage there was a scrapped character named Crymini, and I remember someone pitching an idea of her being made a hellhound and coming to the hotel in hopes that she could go to heaven despite being a hellborn. Now THAT would’ve posed some actual moral difficulties if the exorcists were killing Hellborns as well as sinners, but we’ve only seen them target said sinners, who we know most of have done MANY horrific things

If Viv and the writers wanted us to oppose the exorcisms, this could’ve been a genius way to do it—along with having sinners who were condemned for very minor sins and/or over misunderstandings that they feel actually remorseful for

[dr-awkkward]

Slay the Princess text posts, part 19

[part 18] [part 20]

[dr-awkkward]

Slay the Princess text posts, part 37

[part 36] [part 38]

[alastors-totally-canon-deertail]

[wishihadatimemachine99]

Thank you op for this!!! Informing people when you're (rightfully) upset is tough but the right thing to do. I also want to add, that the clip where they're in the club. The only white person is Mimzi!!! It could be a black club and she could have been an ally and welcomed guests. Or hell... Mimzi could turn out to be white passing.

Also understanding that Alastar grew up during Jim Crow is essential to understanding his character flaws. He's untrusting and doesn't like people getting close. He also can't stand when people have any type of power over him. Then like you said, he wears a mask because back then if you didn't keep smiling you could end up dead.

[genderkoolaid]

do you have any thoughts on why there's such a huge disparity in the number of trans feminine headcanons for canon guys, as opposed to the trans masculine headcanons for canon girls?

i'm not trying to start anything, just kinda looking for a opinion from someone who's usually got pretty good insight and takes on stuff like this.

My thoughts rn are that its a combo of

There seem to be more femboy characters that are extremely feminine out there than there are butch women characters that are extremely masculine (or even really that butch...)

Femininity is seen as more interesting in the "oooh shiny!" sense than masculinity. Turning a man into a beautiful woman has a sense of allure because the end product is Pretty Thing, while turning a woman into a man, even a handsome man, is in the eyes of misogyny just ruining the Pretty Thing

In leftist spaces, turning a male character into a woman tends to create less conflict than the reverse? This isn't black and white obviously, there's been whole discourses about transfems "stealing rep" from feminine cis men. But from a cisfeminist perspective, making a male character transfem means you take an otherwise privileged character and use them to create rep for women, specifically marginalized women. The reverse, however, means taking female representation and making them male, which creates a lot of complex questions around marginalization and how transmascs fit into the schema. And generally when transmascs make people have complicated confusing feelings they don't react well.

Transmasculine erasure means that people just straight up do not think about transmasculinity and that covers a range of sins.

But that's what I've thought could be behind the disparity. I think its probably largely subconscious too, and there could be a whole ton of other things influencing that data so don't take this too seriously.

[prof-grace-aspen]

Just look at how annoying and loud people get about headcanoning Mulan or Zelda/Sheik as transmasc.

[eldritchtouched]

Or when people insist that Gwyndolin in Dark Souls or Miquella in Elden Ring can't be transmasc.

I've seen some particularly rancid takes about headcanons involving them not being transfem as being "transmisogynistic." But that's... not what that word means in the slightest.