About Zeal’s hospitalization + Zeal joining Ren’s server and a few other notes
After some comments on my last post, I started thinking a bit more about Zeal’s alleged hospitalization + Zeal joining Ren’s server. So here’s a short dive into that. Also got a few other things I wanna mention after.
TW: suicide mention
Timeline:
Zeal posted about an hour long video and by then by the end of it, allegedly attempted to kill himself. The video was, according to a few people, taken down soon after upload. According to staff on his server, he was hospitalized, allegedly. I have been unable to find evidence of the staff claiming this BUT Zeal did state in the doc himself that he was hospitalized.
During this, Zeal’s “mom” (supposedly) also made a statement on discord.
A few notes.
I want to make a few notes before going into the hospitalisation allegations.
First note, Zeal’s “mom” states they were preparing to release a statement, but due to what happened, will not be happening. They were going to take legal action instead. 1. Is the message “she’s” sending now not a statement? Unless “she’s” talking about the google doc? 2. If “she” is then, either they changed their minds on the legal stuff or they couldn’t or they failed to do so.
Second note. “She” claims that they took down the video themselves. Now assuming the video was how they found out about Zeal’s alleged attempt, they were unnaturally quick to take it down. Plus I would’ve thought they would care more about checking on their child before doing something about the video. Now granted, people were claiming that the video was privated. So one possibility is that Zeal privated it, but once the family made sure he was ok, they deleted the video (if that’s what they mean by taking it down.) With how it was worded, I’m not sure how plausible that is. Another explanation is NOT assuming the video was how they found out, (and assuming that Zeal privated it and they deleted it later scenario) but rather they found out a different way. The only other possibility I can think of is that Zeal took down the video himself and Zeal’s “mom” lied (for some reason) about taking it down. Or otherwise, as many people are speculating, it’s not his mom to begin with and it’s Zeal pretending.
Denmark’s hospital policy
Other people have mentioned that Denmark’s policy on internet access during crisis prevention (such as suicide) is strict, patients will not be allowed on it, unless monitored, for their wellbeing. This also includes engaging in a situation that led the patient to said crisis.
Googling, I have not found anything about internet restriction in Denmark but Zeal, again, did confirm he had internet restrictions. (First screenshot.)
With that said, whether or not his family helped write the doc, makes things untrue if the part that he is not allowed to engage in the situation that led to his attempt is true in the policy. An explanation could be that he did all this without eyes on him. If the hospital actually only cares about his internet access then they wouldn’t think twice about letting him have his computer while being restricted to accessing wifi. As for the publishing, he could’ve possibly gotten his family or friend to post it, giving them the password for his twitter account. Otherwise he simply lied about being in hospital to begin with. The motivation if he did lie? To gain sympathy points and get people on his side.
And actually, real quick, as of writing this, we can see Zeal also mentions gathering screenshots before hospitalisation. Now if you seen his doc, it has ALOT of screenshots. I just find the timeline of it odd. He made that video not long after Ren’s doc came out. His “mom” says he was unstable while making that video. Staff were also quitting soon after the doc was out which has been claimed to have contributed to his distress. Where in that timeline could he have gotten those screenshots? During the reading of Ren’s doc for the first time? He also included his own screenshots. He’d have to go searching back for those. Not saying it’s impossible but something to consider. Plus with his video and how fast things changed, his initial reaction was distress, I’d think in that state one wouldn’t consider screenshotting anything for future counter docs, especially when one has suicidal thoughts. What about after the alleged attempt? That would be assuming he was never physically harmed during his alleged attempt and had time to cool down. That would’ve given him time to gather that many screenshots if not all as that scenario would’ve led him to not be admitted to the hospital right away. Any screenshots he missed and within his doc marked with a “ * ” could also be explained as a simply forgotten moment. If none of that is true then I don’t know when and how else he gathered those screenshots. Unless of course he was never in the hospital in the first place. (also reminder he still didn’t address the screenshot in Ren’s doc where Ren had to explain consent to him. Refer to my previous post.)
Zeal trying to join Ren’s server
This was one of the red flags I mentioned in my last post.
It’s clearly his account. However a comment wondered if it was Zeal behind the screen. So let’s go over this.
It was him
Let’s assume it’s him first. Clear motivations for doing this: to stalk Ren. We also have to consider the hospitalization situation again. How would he do this if he wasn’t allowed internet access? Some possibilities:
He was never in the hospital in the first place. Again, possibly lied about it.
He was discharged from the hospital before this. This was after the doc where he claimed that he was still in hospital. We never got an update if he was out yet or not. I can’t say how long he should be there, it depends on the situation and circumstances. This is an important thing to note, as it would give a good comparison in timelines on his hospital stay vs when he did this. EDIT: DEBUNKED, his “mom” has made another statement on discord as of editing this (may 28th) that he’s now since been out of hospital. Screenshot provided in my reblog.
He got someone else to do it (more on this next.)
It was someone else
Now let’s assume it wasn’t him behind the screen. Who could it be? It could be someone that Zeal trusted his password with. Family, a friend. If so, Zeal might’ve asked them to join Ren’s server. But this doesn’t make sense when you think about it. It leads to more questions than answers. Why would Zeal have someone else to do it? Let alone on HIS account? Wouldn’t it make more sense to get that person to do it on their own account if the goal was to spy? Was Zeal really insane to think he WOULDN’T get banned immediately? Now that is the only logical explanation for that, regardless of whether or not it was someone else using his account or it was just him. Not only is that dumb thinking, but it’s straight up obsessive behaviour. Gross and creepy.
Another possibility if it was someone else behind the screen that has his password, is that somebody did this behind Zeal’s back. The only motivation I can think of for doing so is to betray Zeal and make him more guilty which is an incredibly dumb move since if they had access to his account, they can see Zeal’s message history and I’m sure they could find genuine guilty evidence (whether that’s related to the main situation or not.) So how likely do you think that scenario is? Otherwise the person simply forgot to log off Zeal’s account (being on there to begin with for whatever reason.) but realistically that seems VERY unlikely. Even if somehow true, it’s still very suspicious.
It was a hacker
If it wasn’t Zeal, nor someone he knows then the only other possibility is that a hacker hacked into Zeal’s account. Again, the only motivation I can think of for this scenario is the same one as the family/friend one. That the hacker wanted to make Zeal look guilty. Once again, the hacker would’ve had Zeal’s message history. However there’s no telling how much time this hacker could’ve had. If Zeal wasn’t in hospital then he would’ve been alerted that his account has logged in (same logic if someone else was entrusted with his emails), on a new device and/or location. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) Not sure if it’s possible to force log out on every device for discord but if so that’s the only explanation I can think of for the hacker to do that. Once again, how likely is that scenario to begin with? Maybe the hacker did gather some stuff and forgot to log off before joining Ren’s server, planning to share this evidence gathered. But in that case wouldn’t the hacker make themselves known publicly about that? The only reason they would keep quiet is because they found nothing. (unlikely, check my last post on why.) But let’s be for real, we’re more likely to see that scenario in a movie than irl.
Someone managed to fake it
I've seen a screenshot in a post saying that they replicated the carl bot embed on their own server. However for this to faked by these methods, then it would have to be from a mod/admin with the bot permissions to do so. Why would they feel the need to do this when Ren is already going to be updating her doc with other people coming forward about Zeal? It’s why I highly doubt this is a possibility.
Other notes
First and foremost, I want to mention I had some updates edited in and reblogged from my last post in case you saw my initial post but not the updates.
Link
In the edits I go a little in depth about how trauma can affect the hippocampus, the part of your brain which is responsible for your memories. An important thing to consider regarding Ren.
In the reblog I found a translation of the Danish part of Zeal’s video which reveals a red flag. TW for sibling violence.
Secondly, can people stop watching the youtube videos regarding the situation? They switch sides like a button, it’s obvious they are only covering the situation because it gets them views. People are attracted to situations like this and some like having a summarized version in a video format. And whether or not they are doing it for the views, they have done little research on a few things such as trauma responses and only repeating what Zeal has said and treating it like his pov proves his innocence. Plus I’m sure some of them are plainly sexist and ableist. Stop relying on them for information.
Thirdly, something about Kat. I kinda mention this in my last post but I wanted to repeat it in case someone needs to hear this. Two things can be true at once. Kat can absolutely be a horrible person AND be a victim, by Zeal or otherwise. It’s just like how some abusive parents were victims by their own parents. (This is called cycle of abuse and generational trauma btw.) So we shouldn’t dismiss Kat’s statement just because we know she’s acted horribly. And if you just didn’t know that she had a doc of her own, congrats now you do and here it is: Kat's doc
You can also see what I had to say about it in my last post if you haven't already.
That’s all for now and hopefully the last I say about this until Ren’s new doc. Promise to post art soon.
Reblogging this instead of just editing just to make sure this is seen.
As of reblogging this, May 28th, (May 29th for my timezone but I digress) Saw in someone's post that Zeal’s “mom” has made another statement. Explaining that Zeal is only now out of hospital.
Zeal also still has social media access limitations. What these limitations are exactly, no way of knowing, but still keep in mind.
This debunks the theory that Zeal was out of hospital by the time he tried joining Ren’s server. That leaves only these other possibilities:
Zeal lied about being in hospital
Someone used his account (whether it was someone he knows or a hacker)
It was faked
Zeal lying seems to be the highest possibility as (as I’ve already explained) someone using his account doesn’t make sense and any explanations to make it make sense, you would more likely see in a movie. It also being faked would also be unlikely as it would have to be a mod/admin to pull it off and considering Ren is making a new document with others coming forward about Zeal (and people who had already made statements against Zeal), why would they do this?
ALSO, in Zeal’s “mom’s” first statement, “she” states they’d be going offline and asks people to not contact them. Yet in THIS statement, “she” thanked everyone sending “kind and considerate messages”....
Which…would require to be online for…
Yeah not suspicious at all /sarcasm
Still don’t believe that’s actually Zeal’s “mom” but that’s up for debate, there’s no hardcore evidence to support that theory. If I do find anything that supports or debunks this I will edit it in here.
Alright I know I said last post was hopefully gonna be the last time I said anything about this but I did decide to read this doc which is a breakdown on Ren’s original doc and their behaviour. I want to focus on the claim that “Zeal never assaulted Ren” part of it. The rest of the doc I will say something at the end.
TW: SA
“Zeal was the one to offer to come over to Ren’s room”
First point I want to address. OP claims that during the first encounter, when Ren was having a breakdown, they were the one to invite Zeal over to comfort them.
This is false as the following screenshot shows that Zeal was the one to offer first. Ren said ok to this, yes, but I want to note that it’s only a yes to coming over and not the incoming sexual acts that was about to take place.
Former consensual actions is not consent to current actions
Next point I want to address. OP claims that Zeal’s “Style” stems from inexperience and porn influenced. OP also claims Zeal was under the impression that these actions were wanted due to the contact beforehand and the kiss.
I gotta say this is a disgusting take from OP here. Any mutual cuddling, hand holding and the kiss, etc is NOT consent to further sexual actions. It was never stated in both Ren’s and Zeal’s doc that he asked if he could do any of those sexual actions with Ren in the first place. Also even if previous talk and encounters were consensual, that doesn’t make future encounters consensual. Furthermore, something that wasn’t addressed is how these sexual actions were initiated after Ren’s breakdown, this can be labelled as taking advantage of Ren as people after a mental breakdown usually are overwhelmed, vulnerable, distressed, etc.
Zeal has a lack of respect
Third point. OP addresses how Ren communicated pain and Zeal would stop. And also claims that Ren actively participated and suggested touching and offered oral sex.
First of all, even if Zeal stopped some actions, he still continued to do more without asking first and without making sure Ren was ok. He could’ve very much injured them. And he never apologized either. For the Ren taking back “no’s” may I remind you once again, after a mental breakdown, they would not be in the right state of mind. OP you have also failed to mention that while Zeal did initially stop f-ngering Ren the first time after Ren stated it hurts, he still went ahead and did again after putting a finger down their throat. While Zeal denies this in his own doc, I wouldn’t trust it considering what was in Kat’s doc about Zeal breaking boundaries.
As for the “actively participating in touching and offering oral” part, yes while Ren was the one to ask if touching was ok (also funny how they're the only one out of the 2 even asking if something is ok or not) It was Zeal who told them to put it in their mouth. Ren didn’t offer the oral part. And once again, he did not ask Ren if this was ok.
An argument is that Ren still didn’t resist and went along with it. To that I say!
Source
To add on, I cannot express this enough. It is important to regularly check on your partner during intimacy if actions are ok. I’ve once heard someone try to argue that it makes it “less sexy” but that’s plain stupid. It’s unfortunately common for people to pretend they like something when they don’t during intimacy. I’m sure you heard about the phrase “faking it.” Oftentimes it's due to fear about speaking up so it helps to ask to reassure them that it's ok if they don’t like something.
No title for this one just genuine confusion
Next point…I’m just tryna figure out what OP means by this.
Zeal’s comment being a reference to Ren’s inability to become physically aroused…? This was right after the second f-ngering, what do you mean this is because of Ren’s inability to become aroused?
And what do you mean Ren’s comments on m-sturb-ting is proof for that?? Of course they’d be more aroused doing things alone to THEIR own body?? I’m genuinely confused? As for the whole inexperienced part in which Zeal is influenced by pornography and Ren influenced by erotica uhhhhh…considering pornography’s reputation, shouldn’t Zeal being influenced by it be a Red flag…? Also yes pornography and erotica are different as erotica focuses on writing, the build up, connection, etc. Fun fact.
Ren had to explain consent to Zeal
Point 4, OP talks about Ren talking to Zeal about respecting them and their boundaries, requests and expectations.
The fact Ren had to go ahead and explain this to a grown man about respecting them as a whole, and their boundaries and what not, is a red flag and should be proof that it wasn’t consensual. Also I’m assuming OP, at least in part, is talking about how Ren had to explain consent to Zeal.
Said it once, will say it again. Ren should not have to explain the basics of consent to a grown man.
Also this.
During the whole doc, OP was against the idea Ren was ever fawning. Now admittedly while the argument had some backbone to it BEFORE the assault, I think it’s invalid for the AFTER. Remember that Ren also has a fear of abandonment. And while OP goes on at a point about how Ren wanted a romantic relationship, that does not mean they wanted a sexual one. Remember also that some victims will stay with their abusers and sometimes even go as far as defending them (doesn’t make them any less of a victim.)
Ren getting interrupted and the Hickeys
Point 5. OP goes on about how Zeal respected Ren’s boundaries, reassuring them he won’t penetrate them, Ren’s claim on how the hickeys were not consensual, arguing that Ren wanted neck kisses.
Starting off with the whole penetration part, OP failed to acknowledge that before Zeal did those acts, Ren was trying to further explain to him about respecting their boundaries.
Once again he also never asked and plainly interrupted Ren who was trying to reestablish and remind Zeal about respect and boundaries.
As for the hickeys. The neck kisses in which OP is saying that Ren wanted was this.
To me this suggests gentle kisses on the neck. Not full on sucking and biting that would leave hickeys. Which also makes Ren’s statement on not consenting to those still true, they wanted gentle kisses not anything rough that would leave bruises. Even if Ren is prone to bruise easily, Zeal still would’ve had to apply some sort of roughness to do that.
Final notes
OP has a whole section regarding Ren’s BPD. And while I don’t think this was the intention, but, it can come off as “people with BPD are manipulative and abusive.” Maybe that’s just me though but just in case please don’t let that be your takeaway from that.
I will not deny the signs of manipulative behaviour from Ren (intentional or not,) but also, given what I have gone over, I do not believe Ren lied about their assault nor a result of negative bias.
I said this for Kat and I will say this here, two things can be true at once, a bad person can also be a victim. If that wasn’t a fact then there would be no generational trauma and cycle of abuse.
Zeal and the other devs have acted ableist so there is a possibility that Ren’s behaviour comes from not being understood and/or being mistreated. Speculation.
Even if Ren lied, Zeal and other devs still showed shitty behaviour
Reminder though, Ren has stated they are making a new doc with other people coming forward.
Again, if you haven’t read my previous posts here u go
This one goes over Zeal’s red flags basically
This one goes over Zeal’s hospitalization and joining Ren’s server
Alright now this should be the last time I speak on this until the new doc. I'm tired.
About Zeal’s hospitalization + Zeal joining Ren’s server and a few other notes
After some comments on my last post, I started thinking a bit more about Zeal’s alleged hospitalization + Zeal joining Ren’s server. So here’s a short dive into that. Also got a few other things I wanna mention after.
TW: suicide mention
Timeline:
Zeal posted about an hour long video and by then by the end of it, allegedly attempted to kill himself. The video was, according to a few people, taken down soon after upload. According to staff on his server, he was hospitalized, allegedly. I have been unable to find evidence of the staff claiming this BUT Zeal did state in the doc himself that he was hospitalized.
During this, Zeal’s “mom” (supposedly) also made a statement on discord.
A few notes.
I want to make a few notes before going into the hospitalisation allegations.
First note, Zeal’s “mom” states they were preparing to release a statement, but due to what happened, will not be happening. They were going to take legal action instead. 1. Is the message “she’s” sending now not a statement? Unless “she’s” talking about the google doc? 2. If “she” is then, either they changed their minds on the legal stuff or they couldn’t or they failed to do so.
Second note. “She” claims that they took down the video themselves. Now assuming the video was how they found out about Zeal’s alleged attempt, they were unnaturally quick to take it down. Plus I would’ve thought they would care more about checking on their child before doing something about the video. Now granted, people were claiming that the video was privated. So one possibility is that Zeal privated it, but once the family made sure he was ok, they deleted the video (if that’s what they mean by taking it down.) With how it was worded, I’m not sure how plausible that is. Another explanation is NOT assuming the video was how they found out, (and assuming that Zeal privated it and they deleted it later scenario) but rather they found out a different way. The only other possibility I can think of is that Zeal took down the video himself and Zeal’s “mom” lied (for some reason) about taking it down. Or otherwise, as many people are speculating, it’s not his mom to begin with and it’s Zeal pretending.
Denmark’s hospital policy
Other people have mentioned that Denmark’s policy on internet access during crisis prevention (such as suicide) is strict, patients will not be allowed on it, unless monitored, for their wellbeing. This also includes engaging in a situation that led the patient to said crisis.
Googling, I have not found anything about internet restriction in Denmark but Zeal, again, did confirm he had internet restrictions. (First screenshot.)
With that said, whether or not his family helped write the doc, makes things untrue if the part that he is not allowed to engage in the situation that led to his attempt is true in the policy. An explanation could be that he did all this without eyes on him. If the hospital actually only cares about his internet access then they wouldn’t think twice about letting him have his computer while being restricted to accessing wifi. As for the publishing, he could’ve possibly gotten his family or friend to post it, giving them the password for his twitter account. Otherwise he simply lied about being in hospital to begin with. The motivation if he did lie? To gain sympathy points and get people on his side.
And actually, real quick, as of writing this, we can see Zeal also mentions gathering screenshots before hospitalisation. Now if you seen his doc, it has ALOT of screenshots. I just find the timeline of it odd. He made that video not long after Ren’s doc came out. His “mom” says he was unstable while making that video. Staff were also quitting soon after the doc was out which has been claimed to have contributed to his distress. Where in that timeline could he have gotten those screenshots? During the reading of Ren’s doc for the first time? He also included his own screenshots. He’d have to go searching back for those. Not saying it’s impossible but something to consider. Plus with his video and how fast things changed, his initial reaction was distress, I’d think in that state one wouldn’t consider screenshotting anything for future counter docs, especially when one has suicidal thoughts. What about after the alleged attempt? That would be assuming he was never physically harmed during his alleged attempt and had time to cool down. That would’ve given him time to gather that many screenshots if not all as that scenario would’ve led him to not be admitted to the hospital right away. Any screenshots he missed and within his doc marked with a “ * ” could also be explained as a simply forgotten moment. If none of that is true then I don’t know when and how else he gathered those screenshots. Unless of course he was never in the hospital in the first place. (also reminder he still didn’t address the screenshot in Ren’s doc where Ren had to explain consent to him. Refer to my previous post.)
Zeal trying to join Ren’s server
This was one of the red flags I mentioned in my last post.
It’s clearly his account. However a comment wondered if it was Zeal behind the screen. So let’s go over this.
It was him
Let’s assume it’s him first. Clear motivations for doing this: to stalk Ren. We also have to consider the hospitalization situation again. How would he do this if he wasn’t allowed internet access? Some possibilities:
He was never in the hospital in the first place. Again, possibly lied about it.
He was discharged from the hospital before this. This was after the doc where he claimed that he was still in hospital. We never got an update if he was out yet or not. I can’t say how long he should be there, it depends on the situation and circumstances. This is an important thing to note, as it would give a good comparison in timelines on his hospital stay vs when he did this. EDIT: DEBUNKED, his “mom” has made another statement on discord as of editing this (may 28th) that he’s now since been out of hospital. Screenshot provided in my reblog.
He got someone else to do it (more on this next.)
It was someone else
Now let’s assume it wasn’t him behind the screen. Who could it be? It could be someone that Zeal trusted his password with. Family, a friend. If so, Zeal might’ve asked them to join Ren’s server. But this doesn’t make sense when you think about it. It leads to more questions than answers. Why would Zeal have someone else to do it? Let alone on HIS account? Wouldn’t it make more sense to get that person to do it on their own account if the goal was to spy? Was Zeal really insane to think he WOULDN’T get banned immediately? Now that is the only logical explanation for that, regardless of whether or not it was someone else using his account or it was just him. Not only is that dumb thinking, but it’s straight up obsessive behaviour. Gross and creepy.
Another possibility if it was someone else behind the screen that has his password, is that somebody did this behind Zeal’s back. The only motivation I can think of for doing so is to betray Zeal and make him more guilty which is an incredibly dumb move since if they had access to his account, they can see Zeal’s message history and I’m sure they could find genuine guilty evidence (whether that’s related to the main situation or not.) So how likely do you think that scenario is? Otherwise the person simply forgot to log off Zeal’s account (being on there to begin with for whatever reason.) but realistically that seems VERY unlikely. Even if somehow true, it’s still very suspicious.
It was a hacker
If it wasn’t Zeal, nor someone he knows then the only other possibility is that a hacker hacked into Zeal’s account. Again, the only motivation I can think of for this scenario is the same one as the family/friend one. That the hacker wanted to make Zeal look guilty. Once again, the hacker would’ve had Zeal’s message history. However there’s no telling how much time this hacker could’ve had. If Zeal wasn’t in hospital then he would’ve been alerted that his account has logged in (same logic if someone else was entrusted with his emails), on a new device and/or location. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) Not sure if it’s possible to force log out on every device for discord but if so that’s the only explanation I can think of for the hacker to do that. Once again, how likely is that scenario to begin with? Maybe the hacker did gather some stuff and forgot to log off before joining Ren’s server, planning to share this evidence gathered. But in that case wouldn’t the hacker make themselves known publicly about that? The only reason they would keep quiet is because they found nothing. (unlikely, check my last post on why.) But let’s be for real, we’re more likely to see that scenario in a movie than irl.
Someone managed to fake it
I've seen a screenshot in a post saying that they replicated the carl bot embed on their own server. However for this to faked by these methods, then it would have to be from a mod/admin with the bot permissions to do so. Why would they feel the need to do this when Ren is already going to be updating her doc with other people coming forward about Zeal? It’s why I highly doubt this is a possibility.
Other notes
First and foremost, I want to mention I had some updates edited in and reblogged from my last post in case you saw my initial post but not the updates.
Link
In the edits I go a little in depth about how trauma can affect the hippocampus, the part of your brain which is responsible for your memories. An important thing to consider regarding Ren.
In the reblog I found a translation of the Danish part of Zeal’s video which reveals a red flag. TW for sibling violence.
Secondly, can people stop watching the youtube videos regarding the situation? They switch sides like a button, it’s obvious they are only covering the situation because it gets them views. People are attracted to situations like this and some like having a summarized version in a video format. And whether or not they are doing it for the views, they have done little research on a few things such as trauma responses and only repeating what Zeal has said and treating it like his pov proves his innocence. Plus I’m sure some of them are plainly sexist and ableist. Stop relying on them for information.
Thirdly, something about Kat. I kinda mention this in my last post but I wanted to repeat it in case someone needs to hear this. Two things can be true at once. Kat can absolutely be a horrible person AND be a victim, by Zeal or otherwise. It’s just like how some abusive parents were victims by their own parents. (This is called cycle of abuse and generational trauma btw.) So we shouldn’t dismiss Kat’s statement just because we know she’s acted horribly. And if you just didn’t know that she had a doc of her own, congrats now you do and here it is: Kat's doc
You can also see what I had to say about it in my last post if you haven't already.
That’s all for now and hopefully the last I say about this until Ren’s new doc. Promise to post art soon.
Initially I was gonna wait until Ren’s new document (which would also include other victims of Zeal. Not for the same crime, but mistreatment nonetheless.) But I’m just gonna go ahead and say something now. This is for the people jumping onto Zeal’s side after the release of his doc, I want them to think twice before making that decision. I’m only gonna cover what has stood out to me so this isn’t going to cover everything. I’ll also refer to Ren as “they/them” since I’m unsure on their pronouns. Also also some screenshots provided I took from sources outside Twitter as I do not have twitter and I refuse to get it.
I have Ren's doc (archived), Zeal's doc and Kat's doc all linked at the bottom of this post.
TW for SA and Sensitive topics.
Fawning response
First of all I want to quickly address the “Fawning response” something Ren mentioned in their document. So what is it?
Source
Sounds familiar doesn’t it? Ren had screenshots of these moments within her doc and so does Zeal who is trying to paint it as proof of consent. Ren’s behaviour could also be a result of hypersexality, something that quite a few victims experience after trauma. However I more strongly believe it’s a fawning response, appeasing to Zeal in an exaggerated way out of FEAR. Ren also stated in her doc she had a fear of abandonment which I imagine would contribute to that response.
Another thing to note is that majority of abuse victims stay with their abusers.
Source
There's a multitude of reasons for this such as denial, financially unable, unsafe to leave, still processing what had happened, blaming themselves instead, etc.
Zeal joining Ren's server
Recently, Zeal was caught attempting to join Ren's server.
If that's not a giant red flag then I don't know what is.
Zeal's patterns in disrespecting boundaries and consent
Next point I want to make. Within Zeal’s doc, he mentions Ren asked for a kiss and it became a makeout session. Even if true, that is NOT an invitation to further acts, and nowhere did Zeal say that he did ask before going further. This is more evident when Ren had to EXPLAIN consent to him.
This is a grown man we’re talking about here. He should already know this basic concept. Another point that could be evidence of this is within Kat’s doc. However Kat didn’t provide proof so this is more alleged, but if it is true then it further proves Zeal’s lack of respecting boundaries.
Kat also mentions being called pet names by Zeal along with being referred to as “my.” I can believe this due to evidence of this happening to a user that goes by “Uncobbed_Corn”
Pretty similar to how he talks to Ren. A red flag if you ask me. This could be a tactic to make an individual feel special to him when they are not, a tactic manipulators and groomers use.
Another thing in Kat’s doc is Zeal asking if what he was sending her was ok and Kat, out of fear of repercussions, said yes. (Fawning response.) He then pinned this message in DM’s. This is a red flag and this next point is about to make it a bigger one. Zerum reached out and confronted him about this to tell him the reality of the situation.
Just wanna emphasize, I don’t support Zerum nor Kat for obvious reasons... However what was said here is a point of interest. (Also two things can be true, a person can have good morals while also having bad ones. A person can be a victim and be a perpetrator at the same time, in fact that's how the cycle of abuse happens. Nothing is black and white.) Zeal pulled up the pinned msg in Kat’s DM’s as if boundaries can’t be changed and consent can’t be withdrawn. Zerum, also while confronting Zeal, mentions MULTIPLE complaints from staff. Perhaps we will hear more from them in Ren’s updated document? She also has to tell him to not be sending any inappropriate content to said staff especially due to the power imbalance between boss and employee. (How many people has he been sending inappropriate content to?) Which also now gets me thinking. Did he target Ren specifically because she left and is no longer an employee of his? Something to think about.
Gonna try and make these next few points short so here we go.
The pinning
Zeal denies pinning her down but then describes it as “holding hands while their hands were above their head.” Mate that is the exact definition of pinning.
"Comforting"
He describes entering Ren’s room, hugging, then lifting them up onto their bed. He says any positions that may have happened were not intended to be sexual. He never asked if this was ok. Believe it or not, not everyone who is breaking down wants physical contact to be comforted. Why not instead ask if they want to sit on the bed and talk about it. Or ask "what can I do to help?" Or something along those lines instead of literally lifting them up?
Calling Ren a burden
At some point in the document Zeal confirms he called Ren a burden but excuses it with that he was exhausted in consoling them when they broke down. I want to express that, that is NOT an excuse to call someone a burden, ESPECIALLY when you KNOW they are struggling mentally. You are indeed allowed to feel exhausted in trying to help someone over and over, but that is when you have to communicate that you need a break unless it's an emergency, and if they need any help, suggest another friend or someone. Zeal does not apologize for this.
Suite incident
This might be a weak point. Zeal responds to a statement made by Ren that he gets a pillow on his lap, positions Ren’s head onto it, and he starts playing with their hair. Zeal doesn’t deny the position, but says that Ren was actually the one playing with his hair as he was on his phone. My question is, how is that possible in that position? Without your arm getting tired from reaching up?
Privacy
He asked for privacy to not talk about what happened because he was “embarrassed.” As Ren said, why would you need to ask this in the first place? Both parties should automatically know it's not other people’s business if it was consensual. It’s suspicious at the least. Comes off as a manipulator knowing they are guilty and trying to silence the victim.
Now I want to finish this off by saying
1. To other victims who are comparing their own experience to Ren’s to say she’s a liar. Kindly stop. No one’s experience in handling a traumatic event is the exact same. Everyone will respond differently. Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn. There is no such thing as a "perfect victim."
2. To everyone saying they hope the justice system will handle things, are we forgetting a few things? Such as, how America's current president is a predator? Or how it’s infamous for failing SV victims over and over? Or how those that do report and go through the process get mentally drained, sometimes giving up entirely? I could go on. We cannot trust the justice system will handle things appropriately. There is a reason why many don't end up reporting.
and finally, please wait for Ren's updated doc. As I've mentioned, there's more people that wish to speak up.
UPDATE:
Another thing I wanna mention that I think is important to note. Trauma can affect memories. It can mess with the hippocampus, the part of your brain responsible for your memories.
Source 1 Source 2
In source 1, there's a part where it talks about how desert storm veterans were interviewed. 88% of veterans changed their response to at least one event. 61% changed more than one. Majority of those responses were from "no that didn't happen to me" to "yes that happened to me." It goes on to explain why this might happen. I can't be bothered screenshotting, it's said around the 6th paragraph.
In source 2 I'm just gonna copy and paste a quote "It can also make it hard to trust your own sense of time and reality, leaving you unsure of where the trauma ends and the present begins."
I was in the middle of compiling the Zeal's alleged hospitalization, cuz I had been thinking about it and I was tryna figure out the timeline and everything (if anyone can help with that, that'd be great. I mainly wanna know if he is currently still in hospital, and if not, when was he discharged. Also wanna a screenshot of the statement from the staff that he was admitted.) BUT something has caught my eye that I wanted to add to this.
TW: Suicide mention, Sibling violence
Found this reddit post breaking down the video Zeal had put up. And then this comment caught my eye. It's a Danish person translating what was said in Danish, somewhere during the video. Granted, this person also said it was directly translated and didn't have time to look it through to set it up grammatically + the sobbing and cutting through sentences midway.
What stood out to me in particular however, is Zeal apologizing to hitting his younger brother and admitting to being violent.
This, is a red flag. Children who are violent when younger do tend to grow up violent. It is an understudied case and I can hardly find anything on the perpetrators themselves. It's not impossible though considering how some bullies don't outgrow their behaviour, how children killing animals grow up to be, cycle of abuse in general, etc. Plus it is a logical outcome if nothing is done about it.
Source
What I could find is that, reasons for sibling aggression can be due to:
- being a victim themselves
- genetic factors
- Parental neglect/lack of supervision
- exposure to violence at home
- and more
Source 1 - Source 2
HOWEVER! Even if Zeal was a victim himself, even if his parents failed to properly address these issues, etc. That is NOT an excuse to hurt anyone (I also blame his parents if they truly did fail him and his sibling one way or another). This past of violence might've had some coloration to Ren's assault. (doesn't matter if he apologized to his brother mainly because it was said after the incident and it's fair to be speculative if he truly feels guilt. For all we know it was a tactic to get family or others on his side.) It might've not have been too violent, but it's an attack and a crime nonetheless that caused damage. Remember though this is speculation and a red flag to consider.
Initially I was gonna wait until Ren’s new document (which would also include other victims of Zeal. Not for the same crime, but mistreatment nonetheless.) But I’m just gonna go ahead and say something now. This is for the people jumping onto Zeal’s side after the release of his doc, I want them to think twice before making that decision. I’m only gonna cover what has stood out to me so this isn’t going to cover everything. I’ll also refer to Ren as “they/them” since I’m unsure on their pronouns. Also also some screenshots provided I took from sources outside Twitter as I do not have twitter and I refuse to get it.
I have Ren's doc (archived), Zeal's doc and Kat's doc all linked at the bottom of this post.
TW for SA and Sensitive topics.
Fawning response
First of all I want to quickly address the “Fawning response” something Ren mentioned in their document. So what is it?
Source
Sounds familiar doesn’t it? Ren had screenshots of these moments within her doc and so does Zeal who is trying to paint it as proof of consent. Ren’s behaviour could also be a result of hypersexality, something that quite a few victims experience after trauma. However I more strongly believe it’s a fawning response, appeasing to Zeal in an exaggerated way out of FEAR. Ren also stated in her doc she had a fear of abandonment which I imagine would contribute to that response.
Another thing to note is that majority of abuse victims stay with their abusers.
Source
There's a multitude of reasons for this such as denial, financially unable, unsafe to leave, still processing what had happened, blaming themselves instead, etc.
Zeal joining Ren's server
Recently, Zeal was caught attempting to join Ren's server.
If that's not a giant red flag then I don't know what is.
Zeal's patterns in disrespecting boundaries and consent
Next point I want to make. Within Zeal’s doc, he mentions Ren asked for a kiss and it became a makeout session. Even if true, that is NOT an invitation to further acts, and nowhere did Zeal say that he did ask before going further. This is more evident when Ren had to EXPLAIN consent to him.
This is a grown man we’re talking about here. He should already know this basic concept. Another point that could be evidence of this is within Kat’s doc. However Kat didn’t provide proof so this is more alleged, but if it is true then it further proves Zeal’s lack of respecting boundaries.
Kat also mentions being called pet names by Zeal along with being referred to as “my.” I can believe this due to evidence of this happening to a user that goes by “Uncobbed_Corn”
Pretty similar to how he talks to Ren. A red flag if you ask me. This could be a tactic to make an individual feel special to him when they are not, a tactic manipulators and groomers use.
Another thing in Kat’s doc is Zeal asking if what he was sending her was ok and Kat, out of fear of repercussions, said yes. (Fawning response.) He then pinned this message in DM’s. This is a red flag and this next point is about to make it a bigger one. Zerum reached out and confronted him about this to tell him the reality of the situation.
Just wanna emphasize, I don’t support Zerum nor Kat for obvious reasons... However what was said here is a point of interest. (Also two things can be true, a person can have good morals while also having bad ones. A person can be a victim and be a perpetrator at the same time, in fact that's how the cycle of abuse happens. Nothing is black and white.) Zeal pulled up the pinned msg in Kat’s DM’s as if boundaries can’t be changed and consent can’t be withdrawn. Zerum, also while confronting Zeal, mentions MULTIPLE complaints from staff. Perhaps we will hear more from them in Ren’s updated document? She also has to tell him to not be sending any inappropriate content to said staff especially due to the power imbalance between boss and employee. (How many people has he been sending inappropriate content to?) Which also now gets me thinking. Did he target Ren specifically because she left and is no longer an employee of his? Something to think about.
Gonna try and make these next few points short so here we go.
The pinning
Zeal denies pinning her down but then describes it as “holding hands while their hands were above their head.” Mate that is the exact definition of pinning.
"Comforting"
He describes entering Ren’s room, hugging, then lifting them up onto their bed. He says any positions that may have happened were not intended to be sexual. He never asked if this was ok. Believe it or not, not everyone who is breaking down wants physical contact to be comforted. Why not instead ask if they want to sit on the bed and talk about it. Or ask "what can I do to help?" Or something along those lines instead of literally lifting them up?
Calling Ren a burden
At some point in the document Zeal confirms he called Ren a burden but excuses it with that he was exhausted in consoling them when they broke down. I want to express that, that is NOT an excuse to call someone a burden, ESPECIALLY when you KNOW they are struggling mentally. You are indeed allowed to feel exhausted in trying to help someone over and over, but that is when you have to communicate that you need a break unless it's an emergency, and if they need any help, suggest another friend or someone. Zeal does not apologize for this.
Suite incident
This might be a weak point. Zeal responds to a statement made by Ren that he gets a pillow on his lap, positions Ren’s head onto it, and he starts playing with their hair. Zeal doesn’t deny the position, but says that Ren was actually the one playing with his hair as he was on his phone. My question is, how is that possible in that position? Without your arm getting tired from reaching up?
Privacy
He asked for privacy to not talk about what happened because he was “embarrassed.” As Ren said, why would you need to ask this in the first place? Both parties should automatically know it's not other people’s business if it was consensual. It’s suspicious at the least. Comes off as a manipulator knowing they are guilty and trying to silence the victim.
Now I want to finish this off by saying
1. To other victims who are comparing their own experience to Ren’s to say she’s a liar. Kindly stop. No one’s experience in handling a traumatic event is the exact same. Everyone will respond differently. Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn. There is no such thing as a "perfect victim."
2. To everyone saying they hope the justice system will handle things, are we forgetting a few things? Such as, how America's current president is a predator? Or how it’s infamous for failing SV victims over and over? Or how those that do report and go through the process get mentally drained, sometimes giving up entirely? I could go on. We cannot trust the justice system will handle things appropriately. There is a reason why many don't end up reporting.
and finally, please wait for Ren's updated doc. As I've mentioned, there's more people that wish to speak up.
UPDATE:
Another thing I wanna mention that I think is important to note. Trauma can affect memories. It can mess with the hippocampus, the part of your brain responsible for your memories.
Source 1 Source 2
In source 1, there's a part where it talks about how desert storm veterans were interviewed. 88% of veterans changed their response to at least one event. 61% changed more than one. Majority of those responses were from "no that didn't happen to me" to "yes that happened to me." It goes on to explain why this might happen. I can't be bothered screenshotting, it's said around the 6th paragraph.
In source 2 I'm just gonna copy and paste a quote "It can also make it hard to trust your own sense of time and reality, leaving you unsure of where the trauma ends and the present begins."
It’s going to be difficult to cover everything given the massive amount of information that has come to light, but I’ll do my best. If you feel I’ve missed any relevant details, please let me know.
Before starting, I want to make one thing clear: the document Zeal released in his defense is not proof of innocence; it’s simply his perspective. Lacking sexual experience does not give you the right to push someone else's boundaries. Likewise, being neurodivergent or having autism is never an excuse for failing to understand when someone says "no."
It is also vital to recognize that the "perfect victim" does not exist. Even if REN acted erratically at certain points, that does not strip away their status as a victim, nor does it allow us to jump to instant conclusions. We cannot start supporting Zeal or claiming REN lied while ignoring 200 pages of evidence just because the situation has become messy.
REN acknowledged (in their document, which was taken down due to mass reporting) that they may have appeared enthusiastic as a trauma response. However, we must not forget that Zeal remained the aggressor, utilizing coercion to force "consent." Furthermore, he and his accomplices—Kat, Zerum, Wil, and Cyborg—are still being held accountable for being homophobic, transphobic, racist, misogynistic, and ableist. Their track record as overall toxic individuals remains unchanged.
With that in mind, I will summarize the defense document, the multi-tweet threads, and REN's recent statements, alongside new information regarding Zeal’s actions—points that his supporters have yet to address. I’m not claiming to have the absolute truth; I am simply presenting the information that has surfaced so we can look at the full picture.
Following his hospitalization on April 9th, Zeal’s family released these responses on his behalf. According to their statement, Zeal remains offline under medical supervision without personal internet access. He reportedly wrote most of the 10,000-word document on a borrowed laptop while in the hospital, with his mother helping to structure and post it, as well as reading supportive messages aloud to him.
The Timeline and Hospitalization
Zeal claims that when the 145+ page document was dropped on April 8th, he immediately signed off to write a defense because he believed the claims were false. However, within 24 hours, he experienced what he calls "mass abandonment"—friends, co-workers, and idols blocking and distancing themselves before he could respond. He states this spiral led to his suicide attempt that same night. He remains hospitalized and describes the process of writing this document as "painful, grueling, and deeply humiliating," but necessary to defend his name.
The Core Defense: Mutual Interaction
Zeal’s central claim is that the encounters during RDC 2025 were mutual and consensual the entire time. He points to their five-year history of flirting and notes that REN had been constantly venting to him about their mental health and past relationships. His detailed version of the events:
September 3rd: After comforting REN (who was crying in the lobby) with permitted hugs, they invited him to their room. He claims they initiated the first kiss ("Can I kiss you?"). He denies aggressive pinning, stating they simply interlocked fingers. He asserts that when they said "it hurts," he immediately stopped, checked if they were okay, and only tried again after they said yes. He notes there was no penetration that night; he was embarrassed by his "poor performance" and even joked about writing a "Google Doc" about how bad he was at it.
September 4th: They reportedly bought lube together. He describes this second encounter as slower, at REN’s pace, and involving more consent checks. Again, he states no penetration occurred. Afterward, they showered together and REN slept on his chest.
Specific Rebuttals to Graphic Claims
Zeal provides verbatim counters to the most serious allegations:
Physical Restraint: He denies "pinning them down," stating his only intention was to hold their hands.
Physical Contact: He denies "aggressive" fingering, claiming it was merely "poorly" done. He asserts REN was visually guiding him by doing it themselves.
The Oral Incident: He denies forcing a finger down their throat, explaining that his long hair accidentally fell into their mouth once.
The Word "No": He claims that when they said "no" to something later, it was in a "laughingly embarrassed" tone, and he covered up immediately. He insists he provided aftercare (washing them both up) and was not dismissive.
Post-Event Evidence
Zeal’s strongest evidence consists of logs and social media posts from REN following RDC. He highlights a tweet where they praised him for "not trying anything uncomfortable" and messages calling him "gentle," "soft," and "handsome." He notes that they continued to send explicit fantasies and drawings weeks later while they were thousands of miles apart, arguing this contradicts an immediate assault narrative.
Breach of Trust and Conclusion
Zeal explains his eventual distance as a reaction to REN disclosing their private intimacy to six people and team members against his wishes, which he viewed as a major breach of trust. He also alleges they harassed other staff members with uncomfortable DMs. He claims he tried to distance himself slowly to avoid triggering them.
Ultimately, Zeal owns his "communication failures" and blurred professional lines but refuses the "assault" label. He suggests REN may now genuinely feel the encounter was non-consensual due to retroactive trauma processing and their mental health history, but argues that their contemporaneous words show otherwise. He clarifies that no other team members were present during the encounters; they only learned about it from REN afterward.
Evidence of Culpability That Cannot Be Refuted
Beyond the narrative presented in the counter-document, there are several critical points and pieces of evidence that suggest Zeal’s accountability, many of which remain unaddressed or are exacerbated by his own defense.
First, a major point of concern involves Zeal’s awareness of who he was interacting with. Despite claiming to have known REN for five years, records show he asked for their age thirteen days after the incident; he was also reportedly unaware of their real name at that time. This raises a disturbing red flag: it suggests Zeal proceeded with the encounters while believing there was a possibility that REN could have been a minor.
Then there’s this absolute piece of shit statement in his document: "Consent given cannot be retracted 6 months later." Not only is this fundamentally untrue, as it dismisses the reality of how victims process abuse, but it also inadvertently implies that genuine consent was never established from the start. This pathetic line of reasoning seeks to invalidate victims who take time to understand or come forward about their trauma, which is a common and documented psychological response.
Regarding REN's behavior following the event, it is essential to look at it through a lens of trauma. The reactions and interactions Zeal cites as "proof of enjoyment" can be explained as hypersexuality or "fawning," which are recognized coping mechanisms used by survivors to navigate the aftermath of an assault.
Finally, the document appears to be selectively edited to favor Zeal's narrative. He notably omitted a section where REN explained the concept of consent to him, as well as an indirect admission where he apologized and cited being "excited" as a reason for his actions. Additionally, his defense fails to provide any logical explanation for the physical bruising on REN's neck, leaving a significant piece of physical evidence completely unaddressed.
Current Updates from REN
After seeing REN’s latest updates on their server, I’m even more convinced of where I stand. Even if this has turned into a "he said, they said" mess, we have to keep supporting REN. Trauma isn't a clean, perfect story, and a polished document can't erase the reality of what happened.
It honestly makes me sick and sad to see who’s actually defending Zeal. It’s mostly just little kids who care more about a video game than a human being's life, along with irresponsible, stupid adults who choose to be blind to the facts. It’s revolting.
At the end of the day, supporting a victim shouldn't be up for debate. Despite how much information is being thrown around, the core of this situation hasn't changed. Stay with REN.
Ok so ik the scp fandom is kinda dead now (tho not really since it is clearly still being added too here :3) but i have fallen back into it and Alagadda has me in a chokehold
Thus, i have decided to have my go at doodling up the three remaining lords uwu
They are all heavily inspired by many other interpretations l smashed together bc i am no good at designing these things. I dont remember the artists who made the pieces i took inspo from for Mirth and Diligence, there were quite a few, but i got the idea to make Odious a centaur from @awkward-clone's interpretation ^^
Also Odious got the best one bc i had to redo his a few times and really put effort in bc i legit hated his first designs so much qwq
Anyway- Is the fandom still alive enough for anyone to wanna hear my hc's for these guys? If so my ask box is tots open :p
izzy806
baratheonpilled
discoholicmusic
snowghoul
