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@balconeko
tags:
#nekoreblog -> when i reblog #nekoand -> when i have something to say or add #nekoquestion -> when i ask a question, usually in relation to a point someone makes
transandrophobia definition (link)
non political blog
as a trans man trying to make sense of the situation
transmisogyny is the intersection between transphobia and misogyny, im p sure. ive experienced misogyny since i was a kid yea, and now that im openly transgender i get oppressed for that too. i commonly get associated with my asab to no ones surprise and get transphobic jokes made at my expense, relating to my childhood experiences as a girl. is this not transmisogyny? /genq
it's transphobia and it's misogyny, but it's not transmisogyny. transmisogyny refers to the intersection of transphobia and misogyny faced specifically by trans women, which is very distinct from the one faced by trans men. because the two intersections are so dramatically different, the terminology is different too. trans men use their own terms to discuss their intersection
some really good points!!
so.. what exactly is the problem with the term transandrophobia or other similar terms?
in another post, you did acknowledge that trans men do experience a specific intersection between misogyny and transphobia thats separate from transmisogyny
genuinely, whats the problem with the term trans men use for the oppression they experience?
This pride month, and any other month, remember not to assume that all transfems are transandrophobic because of a few shitty ones.
Likewise, also don't assume that all trans men are transmisogynists just because a few are.
Don't assume that all binary trans people are exorsexist just because a few binary trans people are
And don't assume that all perisex people are intersexist because a few perisex people are.
And just don't assume that all trans people are whatever bigotry just because a few from that group are.
“men aren’t the default! it’s transmisogynist to say so!”
“transandrophobia is just regular default transphobia and it’s a hate movement on trans women!”
i… i’m sorry. i don’t get it.
men and masculinity are treated as the default by the same system of masculine dominance which oppresses women and femininity. Men being treated as the default is a method by which women are oppressed.
If patriarchy did not treat masculinity as the default, that would actually be evidence for transandrophobia, because it would produce a system where patriarchy at least occasionally oppressed men for exhibiting masculinity.
This really isn't complicated. the same people who decided that femininity is extra are not oppressing transmascs extra for being masculine. (in part) Because they see transmascs as default. Transfems are considered extra, and so we are additionally oppressed on that basis.
genuine question, who sees transmascs as default and what does seeing them as default even mean?
something that really exhausts me in trans discourse is how people constantly try to apply cis discrimination dynamics into the one minority group it doesn’t apply to. we are so close to having a productive conversation but we keep missing each other here and it genuinely saddens me
got terrible take blasted again sorry chat
transandrophobia is not the intersection of transphobia and androphobia, because anti-maleness as a societal force does not exist (androphobia, as an individual's fear of men, does exist as an actual phobia, and anti-masculinity is a fairly powerful societal force against anyone who is viewed as a woman [including trans women being held to higher standards femininity-wise]). it's "transandro" (as in transmasculine) + "phobia" (as in hatred of/discrimination against, as in homophobia).
so putting this all together, "transandrophobia truthers" are not fucking idiots who think that:
heterosexual perisex whatever the fuck white men are oppressed by society for those features, and because of that people transitioning into that role are experiencing all of the oppression experienced by white heterosexual perisex whatever the fuck men AND transphobia, which is of course comparable to transmisogyny
"transandrophobia truthers" believe that:
transmasculine people experience different oppression from cis men and cis women and transfeminine people because of our transmasculinity and having a word for that would probably be helpful for making that oppression Less Bad and overall making life better for transmasculine people
anyway that's why i'm blocking people for calling trans men transandrobros
I am fucking BEGGING transmascs (and everyone else) to not let the animosity of a VERY SMALL GROUP of very online transfems impact how you interact with transfems or think about transfems.
please, please, please remember that this "hating transmascs" and "kill all TMEs" bullshit is just a few edgy weirdos on the internet who enjoy saying inflammatory things for shock value.
transfems are not your enemy, and YES, you do actually need to unlearn transmisogyny. Not because you're transmasc, but because we live in a transmisogynistic society.
transfems are not a hivemind, there's no broader transfem consensus that transmascs are Evil Privileged Abusers, but the small group of people who think that way WANT you to believe that they are representative of trans women everywhere. they're super not. they really are just a handful of angsty people online looking for someone to pick on.
all trans people have more commonalities than differences. there aren't two distinct species of trans people from two different planets, there are just trans people with a wide diversity of experiences and walks of life. we are all affected by the same systems of oppression.
find community and mutual support with transfems. build solidarity and have conversations about how we can help each other. the only way we all get through this shit is together.
What social murder is:
"Unnatural or premature deaths that occur due to preventable problems in social, political, or economic systems, rather than the direct violence often associated with murder". This definition typically includes people in power actively and knowingly deciding against preventing these issues, most often in favour of profit.
Examples: Exploited workers dying early due to unsafe working conditions under capitalism (this is the original meaning by Engels in 1845), homeless people freezing to death, patients dying from otherwise preventable illnesses because they can't access appropriate treatment, somebody being driven to suicide by systemic social injustices, or the big one: climate change.
What social murder is NOT:
Being alive but shunned from your social circles or "cancelled" on social media, especially not if it's the direct result of your own actions.
Example: "You socially murdered this person by getting their blog deleted for breaking TOS.", "(...) by causing their friend group to leave them (justified or not)." , "(...) by tarnishing their reputation."
Social murder is an actual death due to preventable social failures. Not a metaphorical "death" within a social circle or on the internet. Please don't disrespect the former by applying the term to the latter.
Likely a hot take. I've been sick as fuck and my brain is mush, so if this is messy I'll probably redo it later.
I saw a post earlier that took a study on self-identified sexual aggressors and turned it into a "cis men suck/cis men dni" generalization. Then another about a cis intersex man who was castrated at birth by a female surgeon who just hated men/boys that much. It got me thinking.
I've met and dated shitty cis men. I've also met wonderful ones. Same with cis women and queer people; some have been just as harmful (or more). Generalizing entire groups like this is harmful. In my experience, it doesn't reduce harm; it makes those groups more defensive and escalates everything into a vicious cycle that hurts people who don't deserve it.
Most boys/men grow up with rigid, damaging messaging: "man up," don't cry, don't show weakness, your worth is in what you provide or achieve, suppress needs for help, take risks, etc. Those scripts absolutely damage men's mental health, relationships, perception of women and other men, and even lifespans. The stats are clear: men die by suicide at much higher rates, die younger on average, make up the vast majority of workplace deaths and homelessness, and often face real barriers around emotional expression, custody, or asking for help without seeming "less masculine."
Rigid sex-role expectations and cultural norms hurt everyone; they just distribute the costs and benefits differently. Men get certain social permissions and advantages at the high end (leadership, risk tolerance paying off for some), but they pay with higher variance: more men at both the extreme top and the extreme bottom. The "privilege" narrative often ignores the parts where the system chews men up and discards them; especially working-class, POC, neurodivergent, or non-conforming men.
It's the same with women internalizing harmful stuff under the same pressures. We can acknowledge real patterns and average differences without sliding into "therefore all members of group X are bad/oppressors."
The "cis men suck" rhetoric slides very easily into "all men suck" because the underlying logic is often essentialist: treating maleness or masculinity itself as tainted or inherently dangerous, rather than specific behaviors or cultural patterns. Once that frame is normalized, transmasc and trans men get pulled under the umbrella whether they like it or not ("you're socialized as male," "male energy," etc.). Trans women catch it from the other side: suddenly their birth sex is the only thing that matters and they're framed as infiltrators or predators.
I've already experienced this flip-flopping with intersex stuff: people weaponizing whichever gender lens hurts most in the moment. It's especially frustrating when people in transmasc/trans male spaces echo "all men are trash" rhetoric for clout or solidarity, then act shocked when it gets reflected back at them. You can't spend years calling masculinity suspect and then expect everyone to magically exempt your masculinity when it's convenient. That inconsistency erodes trust inside communities and hands outsiders easy ammo.
I've seen firsthand how bodies and histories don't fit the neat oppressor/oppressed scripts a lot of online discourse demands. Generalizing "men" (cis, trans, or otherwise) as a monolith doesn't protect anyone; it just trains people to sort each other into threat categories instead of dealing with individuals.
It's okay to want better socialization for boys and men without hating men as a category. And it's okay to push back when your own community imports rhetoric that eventually bites them (and you) in the ass.
Individual people still get to be judged on how they actually treat others. Some of my friends being decent cis men doesn't erase the shitty ones I've met, and the shitty ones don't erase them either.
I wish more people got this because some ‘low-empathy’ people are the most compassionate and sympathetic in the universe, and I hate it when that’s taken to mean ‘unfeeling and probably hostile’ when nothing could be further from the truth
Or, as my dad put it,
Sympathy: I know how you feel Empathy: I feel how you feel Compassion: is there anything I can do to help?
Sympathy: that sucks bro empathy: I feel that compassion: want me to send you some puppy and kitten pictures to make you feel better?
Posts like this make me feel so much better. It always seems like society treat responses to others pain as though empathy is the most important kind. I am around 85% compassionate and this post helped me not feel like I am a monster because of that for once.
Theyfab is literally the exact same thing as shemale (pronoun + term that evokes a certain type of genitals) yet only one of them is viewed as somewhat of a slur. Geez, wonder why 🤔 /sarc
this is exorsexism
this is what transandrophobia in the trans community sounds like to me btw
i was looking for this for forever regarding a recent interaction i got but like. im thinking about this
Transradfems are literally just jealous that trans men were born with the genitalia and body that they want and are using that jealousy to justify making up terms that are actually ridiculous like “female privilege”.
You being jealous of someone does not inherently make them more privileged than you and certainly does not give you the right to harass them and diminish their very serious societal struggles.
Also are we forgetting that most trans men want to have male genitalia?
Your gender does not equal your social class, and trans men are viewed as women by the patriarchy even though they are not women. Female privilege is not real and trans men do not have the privilege of being a cisgender female because they’re not??? Fucking???? Cisgender????
Most trans men wish they were born in the body that most trans women are born with and vice versa. It’s an unfortunate fact of life and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.
Jesus fucking Christ, people, transmisogyny and transandrophobia are both incredibly damaging forms of bigotry, why are you inflicting them on each other????
nobody is saying female privilege. unless you think like 3 obscure blogs you can look for is like, Everyone Ever.
also, you can't even accurately define what group you're trying to strawman*, which is also another red flag with this whole thing & something I wanna point out because it will ruin any hot take or conversation you're attempting to have with your posts.
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"Trans Rad Fem"= similar to TMRA, made up & nobody called themselves that unless it's a retroactive reclaimation. Made specifically to make a group of trans people look akin to the oppressor. discourse-maxxing /neg
"Radical Transfeminist" = a real word SOME people use to refer to themselves with SPECIFIC beliefs [cant go in depth, i hardly see them so idk much but also if i were to talk about this group i'd do that research FIRST.]
"Radfem" = also aa group with specific beliefs, doesn't just mean "transphobic". radfem beliefs have a lot more stuff than just trans people.
TERF = 99% of the time people use this to say "transphobic" - no. again? specific beliefs and rhetoric and you shouldnt use it unless they are actively spewing TERF rhetoric
TIRF= doesnt just means "i wanna call u a terf but ur trans / supporting trans people kinda in other areas so ima call you this" - this was a legitimate movement! idr a lot of the history there sorry, but most died out. they had SPECIFIC rhetoric, too, tho.
Baeddel = OG baeddels were a specific group on tumblr a while ago that not a lots known about that a lot of people have trauma relating to, most baeddels nowadays have never been in that group - and only some want to return to that kind of community. Don't call people this ESPECIALLY unless you know what tf they believe cuz its a SLUR.
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Now i KNOW that was a bad explanation but i wanted to outline different groups you (general you) may use/see used as buzz words in conversations, and when that happens it makes anything said wholely inaccurate and a waste of time. You need to actually know FIRST OFF what group you're talking about, then define the actual belief you're talking about, THEN make an accurate criticism/commentary on it. Lest everything you say is garbage clogging our tags and taking away from genuine discussions that matter.
Saying "[buzz word term nobody uses] believes [thing someone maybe said once] because [weirdly transphobic thing]" is weird. Point blank.
And ik you may be like "well what if they don't believe any of those ideologies or ID as any of that? or ONLY use transfeminist?" then you have to do even more hard work to accurately define the group. Go, "people who believe X". But, of course, when you're working with what's essentially a straw man it doesn't give that much punch as it does lumping in people you already don't like with some ludicrous claim.
If you cannot accurately identify who would even say this, it probably isn't being said.
*unless the word strawman has to be intentional, then i wouldnt call this a strawman. i do believe you genuinely think people en masse are saying this and theyre all One evil group on tumblr you're making a valid point about. i do believe you believe what youre saying.
- > You being jealous of someone does not inherently make them more privileged than you and certainly does not give you the right to harass them and diminish their very serious societal struggles
You presumed a conclusion under false pretenses, and now are treating it as undisputable fact. This is another error. Nobody is saying "im SO jealous of your vagina! you're privileged!" jfc what's with people saying this disgusting shit. Reminds me of that honeybee confession blog, "ermm all these amab transfems hate me because im female and so afab and have a vagina so i will always pass better than them" <- what they say & nobody calls it out.
Idk it's just disgusting to force trans women into some caricature of "PENIS HAVER who's just soooo obsessed with my vagina and is so jealous they cannot have one so they think i'm PRIVILEGED." <- literally what lies TERFs have been feeding younger transmascs for ages. Trans women are just men who will prey on your poor uwu body's because we are so male and so jealous and wish we can have one too and we will deny your oppression and the only way for your oppression to be recognized is to embrace femaleness and understand trans woman oppress you.
^ What TERFs say. Not saying YOU believe that, but you are perpetuating a diet version of that.
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Additionally, have you ever actually researched into WHY people say non transfeminized people are more privileged than transfeminized people? Or are you entirely informed via discourse? I promise you, it has nothing to do with you having a vagina. Nobody cares about your shit. There's genuine reading to do to understand these beliefs you disagree with but instead you wanna take the lazy way out and say this gross shit, and it's sad. Do better. You make people who actually wanna discuss this topic genuinely look bad
..... also peep how transmascs use this rhetoric too and theres people "on both sides" of all genders, but TRF is being used exclusively to mean trans woman here. gross. weird. why. its a symptom of discourse brainrot. fortunately, it's never terminal.
Also are we forgetting that most trans men want to have male genitalia?
Are we forgetting trans women may already have vaginas or not even want them? What's the point of the "you think i'm privileged because youre AGP" esque argument? This argument is 'penis envy' mixed with AGP. In my eyes. Idk someone can disagree and analyze this post separately, but first glance this is what this is.
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Your gender does not equal your social class, and trans men are viewed as women by the patriarchy even though they are not women. Female privilege is not real and trans men do not have the privilege of being a cisgender female because they’re not??? Fucking???? Cisgender????
What a good argument! Not for anything close to what you are trying to say, but a good argument!
This argument, "your gender is not your social class" is better afforded to if people are saying trans men have a patriarical status. I have seen a few say that, so keep ahold of this in your back pocket for when one does. But 'youre a patriarch' and 'female privilege' are not the same claims at all. Another reason you need to accurately define the claim, who believes it, and your arguments BEFORE you start writing!
Anyways, again, people are not saying this. And people who do say you have privilege do not typically believe you have patriarchal status nor cis privilege. They believe you are not transfeminized, thus are in a privileged state. I haven't seen many writings go in depth on this cuz idk I suck at looking, but if you are this bad at understanding the concept of what 99% of people are saying that you're labeling as the same as (contradictory) beliefs almost nobody has ever said - I can sent you a post that kind of goes into the belief a bit.
Most trans men wish they were born in the body that most trans women are born with and vice versa. It’s an unfortunate fact of life and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.
Still don't like this weird argument. So bold, but unfortunately just a wrong premise all together.
Jesus fucking Christ, people, transmisogyny and transandrophobia are both incredibly damaging forms of bigotry, why are you inflicting them on each other????
Again, changing the topic.. Tsks Tsks :/
You yourself are inflicting harm against trans women+ with this gross, irresponsible argument you decided to post publicly. I suggest you do some more research and some soul searching as to why you choose to speak without accuracy. Learn to love discussion, not be trapped by discourse.
#sorry for the rant this is all literally so stupid to me #it feels like some psyop bullshit
because it is. Nobody is actually saying this. You have fallen for a pysop that infested the transandrophobia discussion side of tumblr probably over a year ago now; and turned it into a discourse as well so nobody cares to check statements and such. It's sad.
"Radical Transfeminist" = a real word SOME people use to refer to themselves with SPECIFIC beliefs [cant go in depth, i hardly see them so idk much but also if i were to talk about this group i'd do that research FIRST.]
i didnt know some people actively identify as that. when i use "radical transfeminist, i use it to describe people who;
identifies as transfeminist
radical. usually radical in a sense of excluding transmascs but not limited to that. sometimes they self identify as radical as well
i can only find one person from tumblr when i look up people self identifying as a radical transfeminist and i think she fits my definition. does my definition seem accurate to what youve seen or is it flawed in some way?
Hi everybody.
My brother @transfaguette went missing last Tuesday. The family was left a suicide note on a hard drive similar to the one posted on this platform 2 nights ago. His last known location was Chittenango Falls, New York, our hometown. You may have seen the selfie of him standing in front of the falls. The park was turned upside down by the most qualified personnel in the state, including SWAT and cadaver dogs. Ansel is nowhere to be found. You may have seen the news reports.
We suspect he may be alive somewhere with somebody. The police have been on top of this investigation 24/7 and have gone to every length to help us. There is one major piece missing to this puzzle that we feel could provide us some answers - his online presence. If you interacted with Ansel on Tumblr, X, and specifically Discord, *please* reach out to me. Accessing this information would require dozens of subpoenas that would take months. If you have any screenshots or anything you’d like to share, pm me and I will give you my personal number. If you would like to just talk to the police, you can call the tip hotline at 315-366-6000.
Take care of each other. Look out for each other. Thank you.
Obligatory reminder to trans men and mascs engaging with transandrophobia theory and discourse:
Most transandrophobes are cis.
TRFs do not make up the majority of trans women and trans femmes.
Many TRFs are trans men or trans masc too.
It's not their identity that makes them say and do what they say and do, so don't bring it up as a reason why and let yourself think that all your sisters hate you.
I promise you most of your trans sisters are way normal about trans men and trans mascs and are super willing to listen to us about transandrophobia and even engage with it fully because they absolutely get it and have their own anecdotes and observations to contribute.
I love my trans sisters and I always will and I know most of them love me too and that love is more valuable and powerful than any hate.
Trans Folk, Whats your opinion on the concept of transandrophobia?
Transfem, I Dislike It
Transmasc, I Dislike It
Enby/Other, I Dislike It
Transfem, Neutral
Transmasc, Neutral
Enby/Other, Neutral
Transfem, I Like It
Transmasc, I Like It
Enby/Other, I Like It
*** Please Reblog For Larger Sample Size ***
Some people have told me theyre confused by what I meant, sorry about that. When I say do you like it i meant do you like the idea of it ( do you believe in/agree with the concept of transandrophobias existence and the name for it ) not do you like the oppression.
Like It: I believe it exists and I think that it is a form of oppression
Dislike It: I dont believe it exists and i don't think that it is a real form of oppression
Neutral: I believe it is more complicated than either/nuance
reblogging for larger sample size
I think I need to make this post again:
st-Dionysus is the recognised coiner of ‘transandrophobia’
If you see someone saying the coiner is a ‘detrans Nazi terf’, they are talking about this blog and this post:
The blog used to have lighting bolts (Nazi dogwhistle) instead of the stars in the blog title, and is a detrans terf. The post obviously got no traction, and literally admits to not being the coiner - “according to google it seems this word has already been used before” “I am not coining it”.
This post explains the situation too: https://www.tumblr.com/trans-androphobe/814155865386024960/when-people-say-the-coiner-of-transandrophobia-is?source=share
st-Dionysus has also been accused of being a Zionist. This comes from when he talked a Zionist once about something completely unrelated. You cannot expect someone to check every blog they interact with for every shitty political stance and term.
These posts go further into it:
💬 18 🔁 0 ❤️ 399 · Long story short: No, the coiner of the term transandrophobia is not a Zionist. Please always check sources for yourself
https://www.tumblr.com/gayygambler/811094304525254656/hey-so-calling-st-dionysus-a-zionist-because-he?source=share
The last thing is accusing hymn of being a lesbophobe who had ‘a fetish for correctively raping lesbians’. To start, st-dionysus is/was a sex worker. Someone paid hymn, on a password protected nsfw roleplay blog, to do a (detrans or ‘dykebreaking’, I’ve seen people say either) kink with them. This post goes further into it:
💬 18 🔁 691 ❤️ 1015 · (let me know if you don't want your tags here, @brilliant-soul! I'll remove this if so.) If folks are curious, you c
Please actually look for sources and evidence to accusations like this. I have to make a post like this every couple months because people keep believing baseless accusations.
this has always confused me whenever i see people say that "the coiner of transandrophobia is a detrans nazi" and their evidence is somehow not about st dionysus even thought the post acknowledges that hes coined the term. thank you for this post