Nul

[thatsonemorbidcorvid]

Maybe a stupid question but do you fully agree with female-eren about male rape not being as bad as female rape?

The post in question:

Controversial take but I don't really think female-on-male rape is as horrific as male-on-female rape. I don't think being made to penetrate

Your message isn’t hugely clear - by ‘male rape’ do you mean rape perpetrated by males, or rape inflicted upon males?

The key point posited in the post is that being forcibly penetrated is likely to be typically more fundamentally traumatic than being forced to penetrate another person. Personally, as someone who has had neither experience, this makes sense to me.

I’ve previously made a post about how other forms of penetration, even consensual penetration, can cause trauma simply due to the violation of the boundary between the self and the other - think dentistry, surgery, even infection phobias. Having that boundary violated nonconsensually must be absolutely horrific, even without the added trauma of pain, possible infection, or impregnation.

I guess the simplest answer is - nothing from that post immediately jumped out at me as being counter to my worldview. I’m open to civil discussion about it though.

[not-yet-so-broken]

the way you talk about victims that you don't care about is fucking disgusting. but you are so convinced of your own righteousness that you are blind to your obvious disrespect, and just assume anyone that disagrees w you just lacks your superior moral clarity.

Exhibit A

same day. this is victim blaming. this is rapist talk. no introspection. funny joke about how victims wish for it.

Exhibit B

this is victim blaming!! this is rapist talk!! prev was bad enough but there is a pattern of showing sympathy and platform to this obvious pro-rapist message. why. both these messages show obvious downplaying of victims and dehumanizing their response.

complete obvious lack of respect or empathy. tell me w a straight face youd trust a male or even a woman that posted about PIV rape anything close to this. with this language, or this victim blaming, or this no-care attitude.

well i wouldn't. and i dont trust yall either when u say this shit and then try to hide behind neutrality and civility.

Exhibit C

okay so lets get this straight. she say that when women rape she doesn't see that as horrific or terrible. its SO much less less way less horrific, that the point u both agree on is that the actual horrible thing is to even compare them and it'll cause bias to treat ACTUAL victims with the trivial treatment u think the 'less bad' situation deserve.

you agree. none of this is "contrary to your world view". more, you add on that you dont even think is violence at all. you don't think its rape at all. you gladly tell those women they are not violent and not rapists and did nothing horrific. got it.

Conclusion

according to you when a man rapes a woman, that is evil, horrific, traumatic, degrading. ok i agree.

but when a woman rapes a boy or girl, even a girl that begs not to be raped... now it's BIG LOL? you see no violence, no horror, not terrible? you think it's WRONG to compare this minor crime to "real victims"?

you think rape victims of men deserve support

but rape victims of females? they deserve the obvious propaganda and disrespect. they deserve to be taunted and say NOTHING a woman can do can be rape, can be terrible, can be horrific. they deserve to be told they wanted it. In fact you go further. These fake victims need to be told THEY'RE the real pieces of shit! they're the harmful ones here! bc they're doing a "disservice" to REAL victims if they think what happened to them is even 1% comparable. NOTHING to compare at all.

you think rapists deserve to be killed

but women who rape... well is not really rape., so they are NOT "rapists", you strongly DEFEND them from being called rapists. none of u express any hatred at ALL for these predators. the conversation in ALL three posts is about how what they did was in some way NOT wrong and you think badly of their VICTIMS. "not horrific", "not terrible", "not really degrading", "not unwanted". you are EVEN willing to entertain that they did not even do sexual assault AT ALL. is just NOTHING and should be treated like NOTHING.

like most moids u think you've ascended and have figured out the evil fake victims that need to be taken down a peg. maybe instead of trying to lecture us about how we're fake victims and nothing but whiny fuckmeat that nothing happen to, lecture the obvious rape apologists (and fucking racists) that AGREE with you and haunt your posts and comments and HARASS RAPE VICTIMS.

this entire community is filled with you fucking rape apologists and rapist defenders. fuck off.

[bisolationist]

Still want OP and all her ilk to explain why women that rape girls and boys aren't giving "child rapist" to them.

I want to know why you are so proud to defend those women, insist they did NOTHING even close to rape - in fact you assert their actions are a minor non-violent and non-horrific form of SA. "No one is saying SA is not serious!" has been the dismissive eye-roll response every time, but it's patently such a cover-your-ass move after you have already posted things like those screenshots above that show the utter lack of respect. Be for real.

Do you openly platform anons that say it's "its so unserious its not even SA" and "lol they wanted it" about other forms of what you consider to be "serious" sexual assault or rape? Do you quibble about how non-violent it is? Do you platform people that straight up say they wanted it? No??? You'd criticize that sort of behavior in other groups as being naked rape apologism??? Wow.

So. Why do you feel sympathetic towards that sort of messaging towards SA when it's about women perpetrators then? Why do you expect civility of VICTIMS as you straight up lecture us about how non-horrific non-violent and non-rapist our attackers were?

The community of GC people that were survivors of female-on-child violence was already small and shaky, but we ALL received a DELUGE of harassment from other "GCs" for like two years lol. *Especially* the women, so don't even start about this being "misandry" lol. So radfems/GCs better stop pretending they give a flying fuck about SA when they literally express negative sympathy for victims that don't fit the narratives they deem worthy lol.

thoroughly done with this rape-loving "community". FUCK OP and FUCK the people in those screenshots and all the little rape apologists they all encourage and coddle. FUCK all the people that made my life hell for my fellow victims. Rot in hell with the rapists you fucking love sooo fucking much.

P.S. fuck all the insane fucking biphobes on here too.

[bisolationist]

okay speaking of men being pieces of shit though

(tw sa-related things but both were only close calls)

I have two close calls with men that really keep me like worried.

One was when I was living at this "gay house" (two houses with individual rooms rented out by various gay/bi dudes... kind of a mess but look, $400 a month). Anyway my (much older) neighbor roofied me (I think) while we were sharing some wine in the back yard. Nothing happened! -- he made a pass at me ("NAME you're such a beautiful young man"... eugh still makes my skin crawl), and I kinda freaked out and ran off. But I barely made into my hallway before I collapsed to the floor like idiot laughing jello. THANKFULLY he did not follow me (he easily could have), and thankfully my friend (that I'd planned to hang out with that evening) arrived like 2 mins later, saw what sort of state I was in, and poured me into bed and stayed with me. Don't remember the rest of the night, but no way I got blackout drunk in 20 minutes off 2 glasses of wine. Just shaves the nerves to know it was that close. Fuck you Terry.

Worse one was this asshole who I willingly went out on some dates with. We did end up in bed, just making out (but naked), and he asked about anal and I said I didn't want to. He was like "yeah? could you stop me though?" and he got on top of me, forced my arms out, and got like 'in position'. he was much stronger and bigger than me and the obvious answer was I couldn't stop him. But then he stopped and tried to play it off like "I was just playing around geez" but it was terrifying. Fuck you Sebastian.

[bisolationist]

I want to have hope but I dont see it...

I don't know what to do about bi issues. The big problems seem too big. Building an Irl community now is hard. Theres too much hatred of other bi people; I get why, but there's nothing more corrosive. The good thing is research was catching up. The bad thing is people mostly don't care because they're already biphobic.

With CSA stuff... haaah..... everyone is insufferable.

[bisolationist]

need to kill whatever part of my soul wants to assume people are being reasonable and it's worth explaining things to them tbh.

[bisolationist]

now that I've had a good cry and a shower, and thought about things a bit more...

I think the concept of "we need to empathize with the nicey nicey not-rape-apologists <3 don't you want us to fix them???" is actually so much more pernicious than I had even fully grasped.

I think I was so desperate to recognize the good intent I did detect that I was like.... not saying out loud how ridiculous and degrading the premise is when taken straight.

[bisolationist]

Maybe I am splitting a little but I also think it's fucking insane to genuinely unashamedly argue people should not "assume" rape apologists sending horrific anons might actually... even send other horrific anons? Should I just assume she's so so niceys?

well actually I'm going to ASSUME she's a fucking danger to all SA victims of all sexes is what I'm going to fucking assume.

[bisolationist]

hate that I can't fucking kill myself because then I'd be making bisexuals, SA victims, and emo boys all look weak.

[mybitakes]

bisexuals report the highest of violent victimization from multiple studies corroborated by the government

all bisexuals need to stop entertaining narratives about bi people going through less.

I'm so serious, don't even entertain that bs from other bisexuals. that's how strict I am. we are at a point in time where we need to start being loud NOW. we should not stop just for self hating bisexuals to keep up. most studies coming out right now, regardless of if it was focusing on bisexuals to begin with, show that bi people are faring off worse right now. we are not struggling to swim, we are DROWNING. nobody is doing anything but a few bi people who are literally carrying this funding and community on their bare backs.

there's already been two studies out showing that bisexuals statistically go through more violence (U.S. and Canada). one from the Bureau of justice, another from. these are not just numbers, these are REAL people.

1. Violent Victimization by Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity, 2017–2020

in the same study, bisexual people still manage to report less than homosexuals. less than everyone in fact.

3. Violent victimization of lesbians, gays and bisexuals in Canada, 2014

3. Victimization among female and male sexual minority status groups: evidence from the British Crime Survey 2007-2010

stop weaponizing statistics about bi people self-reporting less violence to say we go through less. many of these studies will literally acknowledge the fact they were using models that did not acknowledge how biphobia and bi specific discrimination manifests. I don't know how many times I've witnessed bi people genuinely talk about them experiencing discrimination for their sexualities and they will literally call it ANY type of discrimination before acknowledging biphobia. that is where the community is at right now in terms of internalized hatred and ignorance. that's not an insult, they are victims of bisexual erasure and monosexism. multiple studies showing that we experience the most SA and IPV. billions of studies showing that we have worse mental health and are more closeted. and thousands more showing that education about biphobia and efforts to fight against it (with said education + legislation) are being pushed away and ignored. most people are deeply unaware what biphobia is and biphobic stereotypes, there's a good video out there talking about how most of our stereotypes or deduced based on binary thinking about homosexuals and heterosexuals (link).

when people try to weaponize statistics about bi people mostly dating the opposite gender (gee, I wonder if them being mostly closeted and sufferring from violence has to do with that) to be biphobic, they do that because they do not want to read about shit. these people are hearing people bring up studies talking about bi women facing IPV and their first reaction is not to do research about why this happening, no, it's to cry about how bi women are blaming them for abuse and say that it's all because of men. They will do this despite the fact that research shows that biphobia is an integral factor in a lot of abuse faced in bisexuals. absolutely NONE of these studies deny other factors they just dont dismiss biphobia and obviously yall dont like that so you're not gonna read or acknowledge them.

stop begging nonbisexuals to care or read them when some quite literally admit they refuse to read it because it has the word monosexual (while frequently being fine with the terms homo/heterosexual despite them also being coined with cissexist and binary meanings). they are refusing to listen to bi women talking about their testimonies of experiencing biphobic abuse because monosexual is too scary of a word for them. they are refusing to listen to bi academics talking about how monosexual is used and how it also affects monosexual queers because they'd rather pretend people who use monosexual are out to get them. the same people demanding they shouldn't be called monosexual, that no monosexual person even exists, and that they are all multisexual are getting upset by phrases like "sexuality is fluid" to acknowledge the diversity and fluctuation of sexuality in people's lifetime.

[readingbibooks]

“PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE THE REASON INNOCENT WOMEN GET AIDS!”

His hand snapped back to punch me.

“People like you.” Bisexual men. The worst type of queer boys because they’re the ones who can steal your girlfriend.”

- Tanaka Mhishi, It Ain’t Over til the Bisexual Speaks

[bisolationist]

I never set out to become some sort of "men's sexual assault advocate". It's uncomfortable and distressing to discuss, and frankly I deeply deeply regret ever sharing any personal information. Absolutely catastrophic mistake, even if it felt necessary at the time.

My main focus was bisexuality and biphobia, and I addressed that through a gender critical lens because the gender critical view most matches my convictions and acknowledges gender as a harmful system towards women. So, my audience mostly turned into other gender critical bisexuals.

I think (hope) some people are still around that remember when I posted analysis of various studies examining minority stress on bisexuals. One thing I focused on a lot there was the extremely high rate of SA suffered by bisexuals, and bi women particularly. I don't know how we can doubt biphobia when these statistics exist, and we can see minority stress in other statistics too (poverty, substance abuse, mental distress, etc. etc. etc.).

But uh, at some point, it became increasingly apparent that a sizeable number of the people I was engaging with didn't seem to think bi men's SA statistics were important or relevant.

Again, I didn't set out to make this about women vs men, because to me... well, it was an issue of heterosexuals preying on bisexuals. I mean, you can't look at those statistics about gay/bi men and not conclude something is up! But there's just such a resistance to admitting this even COULD be an issue or if it's an issue it's already solved because "everyone already" takes this seriously. IDK.

Where am I supposed to go from here? I can't trust most people because they're misogynists that I am Not willing to associate with. Even within those that are not, many uphold strong biphobic stigma and do not even believe bisexuals face meaningful oppression. Within those, many feel het women assaulting bi men (or even boys) is not violent or horrific and not comparable; how can we even discuss biphobia together then??? And then some want to explain any of the above as "not really happening" in some way. Great.

[saintgoodlove]

”everybody’s a little bi” is just as biphobic as “no one’s really bi, they pick eventually” because both reinforce the idea that bisexuality does not truly exist as an independent orientation and bisexuals have no right to identity and community as a result. both are bi-erasure.

[frigid666]

can we talk about how common it is for monosexuals to set up their own bisexual partners for hate and harassment on social media for cheap interaction/likes? two examples i came across in the past couple of days on instagram:

hetero lady saying she should have listened when people told her that her bisexual ex-husband would leave her for a man… implying that he did do that, when in reality they divorced first and then he partnered with a man

gay male accusing his bisexual husband of dancing too closely with a woman at the club… when in reality she is a mutual friend of theirs and the whole video of the too-close dancing was staged

in both of these instances, the comments section was flooded with hateful comments and projections (“all bisexuals cheat eventually”) because the monosexuals who posted the videos purposefully omitted context to make their current/prior bisexual partners look terrible. like idc i will never apologize for being the one who ‘can’t take a joke’ anymore - i will never be convinced that monosexuals who post this shit don’t secretly harbor a resentment that their bisexual partners aren’t just monosexuals like they are. nobody who really love their partner would set them up to look like deceitful cheaters to the world under false pretenses. it’s not quite abusive on its own, but it’s definitely toxic behavior. most bisexual people who have been abused are psychologically tormented with relentless cheating accusations and (threat of) public humiliation. bisexuals are pressured to be okay with being ‘ribbed’ about their sexuality by both friends and lovers, but we should have a zero tolerance policy.

[thatsonemorbidcorvid]

Maybe a stupid question but do you fully agree with female-eren about male rape not being as bad as female rape?

The post in question:

Controversial take but I don't really think female-on-male rape is as horrific as male-on-female rape. I don't think being made to penetrate

Your message isn’t hugely clear - by ‘male rape’ do you mean rape perpetrated by males, or rape inflicted upon males?

The key point posited in the post is that being forcibly penetrated is likely to be typically more fundamentally traumatic than being forced to penetrate another person. Personally, as someone who has had neither experience, this makes sense to me.

I’ve previously made a post about how other forms of penetration, even consensual penetration, can cause trauma simply due to the violation of the boundary between the self and the other - think dentistry, surgery, even infection phobias. Having that boundary violated nonconsensually must be absolutely horrific, even without the added trauma of pain, possible infection, or impregnation.

I guess the simplest answer is - nothing from that post immediately jumped out at me as being counter to my worldview. I’m open to civil discussion about it though.

[not-yet-so-broken]

the way you talk about victims that you don't care about is fucking disgusting. but you are so convinced of your own righteousness that you are blind to your obvious disrespect, and just assume anyone that disagrees w you just lacks your superior moral clarity.

Exhibit A

same day. this is victim blaming. this is rapist talk. no introspection. funny joke about how victims wish for it.

Exhibit B

this is victim blaming!! this is rapist talk!! prev was bad enough but there is a pattern of showing sympathy and platform to this obvious pro-rapist message. why. both these messages show obvious downplaying of victims and dehumanizing their response.

complete obvious lack of respect or empathy. tell me w a straight face youd trust a male or even a woman that posted about PIV rape anything close to this. with this language, or this victim blaming, or this no-care attitude.

well i wouldn't. and i dont trust yall either when u say this shit and then try to hide behind neutrality and civility.

Exhibit C

okay so lets get this straight. she say that when women rape she doesn't see that as horrific or terrible. its SO much less less way less horrific, that the point u both agree on is that the actual horrible thing is to even compare them and it'll cause bias to treat ACTUAL victims with the trivial treatment u think the 'less bad' situation deserve.

you agree. none of this is "contrary to your world view". more, you add on that you dont even think is violence at all. you don't think its rape at all. you gladly tell those women they are not violent and not rapists and did nothing horrific. got it.

Conclusion

according to you when a man rapes a woman, that is evil, horrific, traumatic, degrading. ok i agree.

but when a woman rapes a boy or girl, even a girl that begs not to be raped... now it's BIG LOL? you see no violence, no horror, not terrible? you think it's WRONG to compare this minor crime to "real victims"?

you think rape victims of men deserve support

but rape victims of females? they deserve the obvious propaganda and disrespect. they deserve to be taunted and say NOTHING a woman can do can be rape, can be terrible, can be horrific. they deserve to be told they wanted it. In fact you go further. These fake victims need to be told THEY'RE the real pieces of shit! they're the harmful ones here! bc they're doing a "disservice" to REAL victims if they think what happened to them is even 1% comparable. NOTHING to compare at all.

you think rapists deserve to be killed

but women who rape... well is not really rape., so they are NOT "rapists", you strongly DEFEND them from being called rapists. none of u express any hatred at ALL for these predators. the conversation in ALL three posts is about how what they did was in some way NOT wrong and you think badly of their VICTIMS. "not horrific", "not terrible", "not really degrading", "not unwanted". you are EVEN willing to entertain that they did not even do sexual assault AT ALL. is just NOTHING and should be treated like NOTHING.

like most moids u think you've ascended and have figured out the evil fake victims that need to be taken down a peg. maybe instead of trying to lecture us about how we're fake victims and nothing but whiny fuckmeat that nothing happen to, lecture the obvious rape apologists (and fucking racists) that AGREE with you and haunt your posts and comments and HARASS RAPE VICTIMS.

this entire community is filled with you fucking rape apologists and rapist defenders. fuck off.

[bisolationist]

Still want OP and all her ilk to explain why women that rape girls and boys aren't giving "child rapist" to them.

I want to know why you are so proud to defend those women, insist they did NOTHING even close to rape - in fact you assert their actions are a minor non-violent and non-horrific form of SA. "No one is saying SA is not serious!" has been the dismissive eye-roll response every time, but it's patently such a cover-your-ass move after you have already posted things like those screenshots above that show the utter lack of respect. Be for real.

Do you openly platform anons that say it's "its so unserious its not even SA" and "lol they wanted it" about other forms of what you consider to be "serious" sexual assault or rape? Do you quibble about how non-violent it is? Do you platform people that straight up say they wanted it? No??? You'd criticize that sort of behavior in other groups as being naked rape apologism??? Wow.

So. Why do you feel sympathetic towards that sort of messaging towards SA when it's about women perpetrators then? Why do you expect civility of VICTIMS as you straight up lecture us about how non-horrific non-violent and non-rapist our attackers were?

The community of GC people that were survivors of female-on-child violence was already small and shaky, but we ALL received a DELUGE of harassment from other "GCs" for like two years lol. *Especially* the women, so don't even start about this being "misandry" lol. So radfems/GCs better stop pretending they give a flying fuck about SA when they literally express negative sympathy for victims that don't fit the narratives they deem worthy lol.

thoroughly done with this rape-loving "community". FUCK OP and FUCK the people in those screenshots and all the little rape apologists they all encourage and coddle. FUCK all the people that made my life hell for my fellow victims. Rot in hell with the rapists you fucking love sooo fucking much.

P.S. fuck all the insane fucking biphobes on here too.

[severeprincesheep]

I can't say that I'm extremely surprised to find rape apologism in RADBLR circles. In many ways I find many of these women to be just like men - men at their worst, never at their best. I tend to be blocked automatically whenever I share the statistics about how lesbians rape more than men. The truth hurts.

[bisolationist]

Platforming off two CSA survivors that are Hurt and Pissed that people casually describe their rape as not only non-rape but categorically non-violent to say lesbians are worse than men is a horrid take.

Lesbians experiencing high DV statistics does not mean it's perpetrated by lesbians - the data simply does not say that, nor do any of those screenshots. If you look at the data that reports perpetrators you can see it's overwhelmingly men perpetrating.

This has been addressed in GC circles multiple times, for probably a decade, and iirc has even been addressed by the authors.

Which is not to say the female-on-female DV victims that DO exist receive adequate or appropriate support, because they don't. That issue is also routinely belittled and I think that's what some of those books seek to address. Thats an entirely different critique than saying lesbians rape more than men and using DV statistics about it.