It is SO embarrassing to say "Yeah I was inspired by I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream and Evangelion" and then that is your finale. No fucking way.
no i can see how that second one tracks

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It is SO embarrassing to say "Yeah I was inspired by I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream and Evangelion" and then that is your finale. No fucking way.
no i can see how that second one tracks
i think TADC's theme overall is so confused. not confusing, confused because i think even the creator had no idea on what the rules of this world is.
like why is it that the characters don't feel hunger or need to sleep, can hold their breath for however long, but they can feel pain?
like i want an in-world answer for this, other than "oooo it's weird horror stuff".
this is a "creative AI" project. which first of all, doesn't explain a lot of stuff like why the setting is a circus specifically or why all the adventures are set up like a video game. or why there are models for all the NPCs just chilling down in a basement, if Caine is just creating all of this when he wants.
but on top of that, why would you program it specifically so that the brain scans of these people don't need to eat or sleep but can feel pain? this kind of thing wouldn't happen by accident. they had to have programmed it specifically. were C&A just secretly trying to torture people for fun?
istg when i first started watching this show, i was under the impression that they can't feel pain, because why would they? i kept brushing past Jax's abuse because of this, i thought it was just wacky slapstick humor and that no one was getting hurt.
but no, it turns out they CAN feel pain. and they can feel exhausted from the adventures. so what exactly is the point of that?
in that case, just make it so that they can feel everything. they get hungry and sleepy, or can suffocate if they hold their breath. but no, it's different rules for different things.
i'm not really saying they shouldn't feel pain. i get that that would lower the stakes. but at least create an explanation for WHY they would feel it. there's absolutely no in-universe explanation for any of this. it's just so that the writers could pull out some half-assed horror stuff and be like "oooo look, they're being tortured!"
I stg 90% of discussion about plot holes go directly into headcanon territory with zero supporting evidence outside of guesses and vibes
NGL if I ever got Digital Circus'd this is just exactly what I'd do to help the cast deal with Jax:
If abstraction was a fully intentional act, it would not be a "metaphor for suicide," it would just be the one way to commit suicide in the Circus. It is a metaphor for suicide because suicide is generally not something you Decide To Do but the result of reaching the despair event horizon.
So the thing is that Gooseworx outright stated that abstraction is equivalent to suicide
Also suicide is a deliberate act, actually. You still have to actually plan and take action to die. You don't die from just sitting there and feeling like shit, you have to physically take action to kill yourself.
Love it when all the circus members that died on Ragatha’s tl are never shown or mentioned at all. Only Kaufmo and Ribbit (who are basically just associated with Jax) get that treatment and they’re still reduced to Jax’s sob story pawns. Circus members that joined after Ragatha? Ragatha who? I just love that, can’t you tell 🫠?
My gripes with abstraction
Alright it's time for me to complain about how abstraction was handled in the series and also an excuse for me to compare it to media that had similar concepts and did it better in my opinion.
So in the pilot it's described as something that happens to a human when they begin to lose their mind in the Circus. Basically they hit their sanity breaking point, and somehow this turns them into glitchy monsters with dozens of glowing eyes. Said monsters are also incredibly dangerous to the people around them and cause some sort of damage that only Caine can fix.
I'm actually fine with how it's portrayed in the pilot, because Kaufmo's abstraction serves to introduce the stakes. In a setting where you can't die, you need something to pose a threat to the characters. Every story needs stakes, low or high.
My problem is when abstraction goes from a "loss of sanity" to a suicide metaphor. Now, before getting into the suicide part, I can understand why this change might have happened. If "losing your mind" makes you abstract, then it begs the question of how Kinger is still here. That man is outright stated to be insane, and even has similarities to abstraction in that they're affected positively by being in dark places. When I noticed this, I even had a headcanon that Kinger was in a constant state of partial abstraction, but that's fanon territory.
So one problem with pivoting abstraction to being a suicide metaphor: there's no clarification as to whether the act of abstracting is intentional or accidental.
For this particular scene towards the end of episode 4, a lot of people believe Gangle almost abstracted here. However, since this scene has no dialogue (until Pomni snaps her out of it) and is solely visual storytelling, we don't have confirmation if she was intending to abstract, or if it was going to happen outside of her control.
Same goes for Jax's near-abstraction in episode 7, which is more blatantly obvious about what was happening. We don't actually know if she was intending to abstract, or if it began to happen by accident. It doesn't become any clearer by the finale since she abstracts off-screen.
The reason I keep hammering about the idea of intent is because that's how suicide happens in the real world. No one commits suicide by accident. My problem with leaving the idea of intent unclear with abstraction is that, if it IS done outside of the human's control, then it totally fails as a metaphor. In real life, suicidal people typically plan out their actions, you don't die by bedrotting during an extreme depressive episode.
Secondly, if abstraction is accidental, that has horrifying implications. Do you abstract if you feel too many negative emotions? Do you have to shove them down and force yourself to be happy so you don't end up hurting yourself and your friends?
On the flipside, if abstraction IS intentional, it still has some really fucked up implications because of the logic of the setting of the Digital Circus.
This line from Zooble in particular seems to imply that abstraction is intentional, or at the very least that they believe it's done intentionally. If abstraction is intentional, then that means Jax did it knowing full well she'd become a dangerous threat to everyone around her. It even implies that everyone who abstracted before her didn't care about the physical safety of their friends.
Now, I can see the argument that they knew Caine would send them to the cellar and fix any damage they'd done, but that just makes Jax's abstraction even worse because she KNEW that Caine was gone and couldn't fix shit. It makes her abstraction come off as incredibly selfish. Because again, with actual suicide, you become a corpse. With abstraction, you become A DANGEROUS MONSTER THAT CAUSES PHYSICAL PAIN TO EVERYONE YOU TOUCH.
By the end of episode 9, nothing is done to solve the problem of abstraction. It's still THE major threat to the characters. It can't be reversed, and there's no permanent prevention. The most they get in terms of a 'solution' is building a fucking aquarium, apparently. We don't even get the tiniest explanation of how it's supposed to work.
Here's where I get into comparisons. The concept of "Character transforms into a literal monster after reaching a Despair Event Horizon" isn't an inherently bad idea. It's a trope, and all tropes can be handled well or poorly. Also now I have an excuse to yap about one of my big special interests.
SO. Final Fantasy XIV. Specifically, the Endwalker expansion. Spoilers for extremely important plot points for the entire storyline. I'm not going to go into a long yapping session explaining the lore so I'm going to do my best to condense this.
Around the early midway point of Endwalker, you, the player character, are forced to kill a godlike entity named Zodiark. What you didn't know is that Zodiark was the only thing holding back something called the "song of oblivion" that restarts the apocalypse known as the Final Days. What does the "Final Days" entail?
Long story short, when people are overcome with despair, they turn into big-ass dangerous monsters called Blasphemies (technically that name only applies to specific monsters, but for ease of explanation I'll use monster and blasphemy interchangeably). They cannot be fixed, and the only option is to kill them.
From the get-go, the question of intent is answered directly in the text. It's explicitly shown to be outside of the victim's control multiple times, such as the family in Vanaspati fleeing the destruction and end up turning into blasphemies right in front of you, thanks to their emotions upon seeing their home destroyed and witnessing their other family members turn into monsters.
Even a god damn INFANT almost becomes a blasphemy because she's a literal baby who's scared, confused, and just lost her parents.
Remember what I said earlier about the horrifying implications of abstraction being accidental? Those implications are followed through in Endwalker and are the major motivation for why the player needs to find a solution to this problem before it gets worse. You can't smile your way through life, and it would be a lot easier to deal with depression if it didn't turn you into a literal murder beast.
You succeed in doing exactly that by the end of the expansion's main story. You find the source of the song of oblivion, get it to stop, and now people are safe to tackle negative emotions without becoming a physical danger to everyone around them. It's an active threat in the story that's properly addressed and resolved.
In conclusion
Is it entirely fair to compare an indie animated series with one writer to a big budget MMORPG with multiple writers? Fuck no!
However, I do think it's important to talk about how certain tropes can be handled and how writers should consider all the implications of said tropes before finalizing them into their story. Writers should consider multiple angles of what these tropes could mean for their story. Writers should think hard about what they should explicitly state in the text and what they can leave ambiguous, and how either of those could be a benefit or detriment to the functionality of their story.
I gotta say, tadc is the first series I can't bring myself to watch again.
And I've been thinking about why, because I'm usually someone who can watch favorite shows and movies over and over again.
The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the show just missed out on so much potential, and not even "fan made" potential, but potential the show built up for the viewer.
Caine would've had so much more backstory potential. Why was he even still there? What happened to C&A? How was the computer still running?
I mean, hello, what I got from this buildup is that a group of... I don't even know who, Scratch? Scratch and Kinger? ...PEOPLE, incorporated a company to make HUMAN BRAIN SCANS. That kinda is a big deal. This SOUNDS like a big deal to me.
Pomni... was her life too boring to give her more screentime, or...? If she was the main character, why was there quite literally nothing about her life before the circus? She was a loner that explored abandoned buildings? And she tried to help others, becoming less nervous. Sorry but I can't really see this as a character arc.
I'm not gonna start with the "side" characters. I think it's overall fine that they didn't have as much screen time, since it's only 9 episodes. Still could've done more with them, definitely.
The digital circus itself barely used its own potential. Like, they have avatars that reflect their problems - couldn't have done that in the real world like that, check. Pomni beamed herself into Jax's abstraction, definitely couldn't have done that if they just went with actual suicide. Apart from that, I feel like the show could've easily played in another setting and it wouldn't have made a real difference.
How and why did Caine make the digital circus? Maybe I'm just slow, i dunno. He made this up all by himself. The real Kinger, Scratch and co. must've seen that, right??? They saw the folder Caine made, shrugged and shut down the company?? Yo, what? Wtf happened after that? Please tell me what happened to the human brain scans AI company??? In the fucking nineties nonetheless??? WHY did they abandon the company?! Especially since Caine seemed to be one project out of many.
I feel like Jax's story wasn't fit to be the main plot to be honest. And yes, things were set up from the beginning and if you look back, him being trans wasn't surprising. The thing is, that I feel they shouldn't have teased so much other stuff they didn't really answer if that was the main plot. Because he didn't live up to that.
It literally feels like Jax replaced all the other relevant plot points with himself, lol. When I saw the poster for episode 9, I kinda thought the cast would find something important VIA and through Jax tbh. I would've never thought that tadc is the Jax is trans show, which would have been fine, if they didn't set it up like it was gonna be more than that.
That being said, Jax was actually the main character. Not Jax AND Pomni. Because we didn't really see what happened to her before the circus. What were her fears about in episode 8? And WHY?
We know what Jax's fears were about... in DETAIL.
I think I'm gonna leave it with that. I'm dissappointed, and it took me a while to admit that tbh. Because I really liked the show, the animation and visuals, the characters and their stories, but I feel kinda played.
The show has zero rewatchability because there's only payoff for maybe 15% of the setup. So many hints towards a bigger picture get dropped or forgotten in favor of making it all about Jax.
Now this is definitely comparing a hydrogen bomb to a coughing baby in terms of writing quality, but there's a reason why I've rewatched Dungeon Meshi 8 times and reread the manga thrice. There's a followup and an explanation to nearly every question presented in the story, and the payoffs are amazingly executed. Every time I think I've found a plot hole, the story answers it for me in the text itself. I don't even have to hunt down external sources for vital plot information, and while there is extra info in Ryoko Kui's art and the bonus lore book, they're not relevant to the main plot.
Digital Circus on the other hand, I couldn't even bring myself to rewatch the finale after seeing it in theaters because what was the point? All the buildup is ignored and forgotten, and there's no proper resolution to the issue of abstraction or preventing other people from entering. The bigger picture is left unfinished. If you want any answers or followup, better hope that Gooseworx tweeted about it at some point, because that's all you're gonna get.
Ribbit is only a manic pixie dream girl and is sad no one knows her other than as "Jax's emotional support".
.
We're finally revealing Ribbit! What's her character?
Oh, she's nice and Jax pushed her into suicide. That's it. That's their whole character. Oh and she's exmormon but we're not going to expand on that in any meaningful way. It's just something for you to put in the trivia section of her wiki page.
People calling Jax's misogyny "internalized" like he didn't "externalize" it every chance he got 😭
💬 0 🔁 4 ❤️ 18 · Jax fans when they're forced to acknowledge the character we got in canon instead of the happy transitioned hypothetical v
Actual Jax:
Jax fans when they're forced to acknowledge the character we got in canon instead of the happy transitioned hypothetical version that only exists in Gooseworx's tweets
"you hate Jax because she's a woman" the reason more haters probably came after episode 9 wasn't transness, it was because she literally attacked her mom, fantasized about assaulting Gangle and attacking Pomni and dumbed down Zooble to revolve around Gangle. Maybe people hate her because she is a bad person.
I turned on Jax after the finale because the reasoning felt like such weaksauce bullshit in proportion to her actions. I didn't want a justification, but I definitely wanted an explanation that made sense.
Up to that point the show led me to believe it was a multitude of factors that built up in the long term to make her a horrible person. Like being trapped in a cartoon logic world would make her desensitized to violence, or maybe she'd seen more abstractions before Ribbit and that losing them was the final straw in her psyche after losing so many other friends.
But instead the reveal felt like it boiled down to "Oh Jax is a piece of shit because she's a repressed trans woman." Like. Oh okay so nothing else about the horror of the setting matters. It's just repression. Because that alone is enough to turn you into an abuser. Fucking okay, sure. Skill issue.
This fucking show is my new Detroit Become Human because it has so many small aspects and scenes that I adore to death but the final product is a complete writing mess.
Both have great visuals and technical skill, but they're barely held together by half-baked worldbuilding, shallow characters (outside of one or two central protagonists), and incredibly tasteless metaphors for real world issues.
I WANT to love TADC and Detroit Become Human but their respective flaws make me wanna chomp down on them and shake them around like a dog
Kay so I was browsing the TADC TV Tropes page and came across this smoking gun-
-and if this ain't proof that the show was literally being made up as it went along, I don't know what is.
Because what do you MEAN the line about Scratch was added at the absolute last minute? So much of Episodes 8 & 9 are built around this guy's existence and yet the VAs didn't know he existed until the show's translators reached out to them??? These livestreams came out only a few months before Episode 8 too so like...was the Scratch lore dump ALSO added in at the last minute? If Episode 7 came out in December and 8 came out in March, it would've had to have been well into production by the time 7 premiered!
Stuff like this is why I straight up do not trust Goose's claim that she had the show all mapped out any longer. Maybe that was true of the first half of the series but everything from Episode 5-onwards feels like it was thrown together in a rush and no character exemplifies this better than Scratch, the all-important programmer who's the entire reason everyone is stuck there and whom didn't exist in the original script.
the amazing vague about the queerness of their characters to the point most people wouldn’t know that ribbit goes by she/they, that zooble uses any/all and that jax is transfem circus
Not to put my conspiracy hat on but I'm like 85% sure the reason transfem Jax couldn't be directly fucking stated in the show was because Glitch knew that having outright confirmation in the show would hurt merch sales of their most marketable character.
So what was the point of Caine erasing the humans' memories of their names? Their old names were pretty much irrelevant up until the instagram slideshow scene, and if the cast got to keep their old names, nothing about the story would actually change.
Sure it could serve to "integrate them to the circus," but if that's the case, why let them keep all their memories of their human lives?
I know the doylist answer is probably "because gooseworx wanted to give everyone fun thematic names," but it ended up just being yet another unanswered question.