[stromuprisahat]

Well, not everything's about poor, poor Alina being manipulated.

You say this like him wanting to manipulate Alina would be a bad thing.

Although I can't possibly imagine him telling IVAN of all people that I am going to kiss this girl to manipulate her hehe lol. That is a plan he would himself set in action.

His general goals considered, it wouldn't.

But he's pretty honest, even when he cannot afford to tell the whole truth. If anyone, his mother lies almost as often as she speaks.

For a "manipulative" villain, he does it very little, unless you count telling the truth, when on one wants to hear it.

As for his plans, I'm sure he would be able to seduce a future asset, but with Alina his plans seem more vague. He's constantly away, busy with imminent issues, he has no time to build the most basic kind of relationship, which makes his later "admition" really fucking confusing:

“It wasn’t just what Baghra said that night. You lied to me. You deceived me. You … drew me in.” Seduced me, made me want you, made me question my own heart. “I needed your loyalty, Alina. I needed you bound to me by more than duty or fear.”

Ruin and Rising Chapter 9

I still haven't figured out a single reasonable explanation, aside from Doylist "LB's retcon bullshit". Like: Honey, what did you do to ensure her loyalty?! Sure, you were kind to her, but you talked like twice, thrice... that's not even establishing the most basic friendship. And given Alina's personality, "loyalty" would take much more effort and a person with his experience should know that very well...

If you want a manipulative villain, you should write it so, not try to gaslight the reader later, when they can leaf through your previous books and find nothing to support it. And your villain looks like an idiot instead of the mastermind heroes will have hard time defeating.

The Best Plan Ever!

[starlesszova]

I'll never blame Jessie for their performance because it's not their fault that their character was obliterated to a point that they were actually confused and found it challenging to play Alina (in their own words). If your lead actor is struggling to play their character because the defining traits of her personality is cut out from the show then you FUCKED UP. There's no other way to put it. It's entirely on the writers. SoC & m*Lina stans who accuse darklinas of "not caring about Jessie & Alina" are the same people who were writing entire posts hating on JML instead of acknowledging how she was great in season 1 but was done dirty in season 2.

Did we ever see a glimpse of Book!Alina anywhere in the show? Nope. Alina's wasting sickness and the emotional impact of it is completely erased. She was so irritable in the first half of the book and struggled to keep up with other people, play with other kids and eat much because of the wasting sickness which is very conveniently never mentioned. It doesn't exist because we needed her relationship with Mal to not look like the toxic and self sabotaging codependency it was. The moment where Alina breaks Darkling's hold on her, all on her own was a powerful moment. The decision to let everyone on the skiff die to save Mal was also her own. We should've seen her say "Yes, this is the mercy you taught me" to the Darkling. This was HER moment not Mal's or Zoya's or the crows' but the show couldn't even let her have that. She's been getting shafted to make space for other characters who were never central to the story since the beginning in the show but Jessie still made it work because of the natural charisma they brought to the screen. Season 2, on the other hand, was just so fucking disastrous that nothing could save it and the godawful writing and dialogues just weighed them down. What is even left for an actor to do if you deliberately erase all personality from their character and make them as plain as a wooden plank because you don't care about their story?

[theweeklydiscourse]

You’re so real for talking about the complete erasure of her sickness and frail condition because it’s very convenient that they left out the physical manifestation of her unhealthy relationship with Mal. In the books, the fact that Alina is weak and underdeveloped counts towards her eventual transformation (and maturity) when she assumes the role of the Sun Summoner. It is undeniable proof that her acceptance of her Grisha identity was good for her, that it made her stronger and gave her the strength to advocate for herself and protect people.

But no…they left that out and gave us the oh-so happy and idyllic Malina pairing (erasing what little complexity they had in the books) and expect us to root for them when they’re about as enticing as a wet slice of bread. This erasure dampens the (potential) thematic resonance of Alina coming into her own and makes the story less interesting as a whole.

[theweeklydiscourse]

Alina is unable to confront her anti-Grisha bias

So there’s an interesting line I came across while reading Shadow and Bone. At first, it seemed insignificant but for some reason I felt the urge to investigate why it had caught my eye. The line in question is the last line in the passage below. It stuck out to me because I feel it is an example of Alina’s self-centered attitude as well as her lack of awareness regarding the position she’s in.

The Darkling opens by trying to explain, but Alina dismisses his words entirely and accuses him of pretending to care about the greater good of the country. While this is understandable on Alina’s part considering she has received shocking news paired with Bahghra’s manipulative framing of the truth, this scene reads as Aleksander trying to reason with a brick wall. Alina says “Don’t pretend this is about Ravka’s welfare. You lied to me.” But I have to ask: what on earth do those subjects have to do with each other? As if him lying automatically means that he must have been up to something. But the connection Alina makes in this quote demonstrates her tendency to fall back on her prejudice in order to avoid confronting the larger issue.

I believe what Alina means to say is “Don’t lie and pretend this is about Ravka’s welfare, if it were truly about Ravka’s welfare you wouldn’t have had to lie to me for months.” However, the irony of her statement is that Alina seems to be under the impression that had the Darkling just told her the truth, she would’ve had a more favourable reaction to the coup. But based on her previous responses to the mere suggestion of treason, it becomes clear that Alina falsely assumes that she is trustworthy enough to handle that kind of information. But she believes that because she still cannot reconcile her anti-Grisha prejudice with her new Grisha identity.

The Darkling puts it very plainly why he couldn’t tell her. The future of Ravka, the future of GRISHA depended on his plan going forward without a hitch. There is so much that could go wrong with the coup, and when they’re being attacked on all fronts, The Darkling would have to be extremely foolish to risk everything on the feelings of a girl he’s only known for a few months. The fact that Alina never reflects on this conversation is so baffling to me, but I imagine the reason for that is because doing so would require her to delve deeper into the plight of Grisha.

Alina cannot take a single second to look outside of herself and consider why the Darkling hesitated to trust her with such a huge secret. She focuses solely on how his deception affected her and makes the issue about her own feelings instead of considering the large-scale implications of what this coup would mean for Grisha.

This passage is one of my favourites, because it really captures the way the Darkling’s patience slips away as Alina continues to childishly deny her culpability in this conflict. He calls her out so succinctly in this moment, that she acted recklessly and thoughtlessly because of her underlying fear of her own identity. It only took Baghra a few accusations because it was the excuse Alina had been waiting for since the beginning. Baghra took advantage of Alina’s prejudice and doubt, validating what she had secretly felt all along. That Alina was afraid of her powers, that she believed that the Darkling was evil, that she wasn’t responsible for the future of the country.

For once, we get a glimpse of the true extent of his frustration and hint of resentment towards Alina. Here is a girl who has the kind of influence that could change the fate of Grisha and rescue them from the exploitation and prejudice they are subjected to. A girl who has everything he ever needed to get his plan through the door, yet refuses to move because of her one-sided dependency on some guy and her crippling fear of being an adult. Alina is literally worshipped by the common folk and Grisha alike, she inspires awe and respect in others by virtue of being born a sun summoner and yet she cannot see past her own self interest. She childishly complains that she never had a choice and that it isn’t fair, falling back into a childlike helplessness and oblivious to her immense power. She refuses to take responsibility which is exactly what sends the Darkling over the edge.

While I know that much of Alina’s reaction to the “Darkling Disney twist villain reveal” is coloured by her fear and insecurity in her new role, this frustrates me so much because it never culminates in anything meaningful for her character. It’s no coincidence that the Netflix show decided to omit this conversation completely, because it presents a character conflict that actually challenges the viewer’s perception of the conflict. The Darkling actually makes a ton of sense in his reasoning and it’s so good that they had to remove it to turn him into a cardboard shadow man that could be killed off in a #girlboss #girlpower moment.

[theweeklydiscourse]

I’m re-reading Shadow and Bone right now and I’m suddenly reminded of why I could never take the Darkling seriously as a villain.

Baghra reveals the “horrifying truth” about the Darkling to Alina and she folds instantly. I’m not even exaggerating when I say that it takes Baghra only two tries to get Alina onboard with her plan. You mean to tell me that the Darkling is an ancient being who has had hundreds of years to practice his manipulation skills, yet he failed to sink his claws into the easiest possible target?

Really Alina should be extremely susceptible to the Darkling’s supposed brand of manipulation/seduction. I mean come on, she’s a lonely, insecure orphan who is still pining after a guy who has ignored her romantically for most of their relationship. This should be a walk in the park for the Darkling, and yet he fails so badly at manipulating her that it only takes ONE crotchety old woman (who had previous voiced her disdain for him ) to sway his target into knocking down his centuries long scheme like a house of cards.

Baghra: Alina, he is evil and has plans for world domination! He has manipulated your weak mind!

Alina: You are senile.

Baghra: Wait look at my shadow powers!

Alina: OH MY GOD HE’S GOING TO KILL EVERYONE!!! I HAVE TO RUN AWAY!!

The fact that Alina believes Baghra almost instantly when Baghra’s only piece of evidence is her shadow powers, is a testament to how lax Bardugo was when it came to actually writing the Darkling as an abuser. How am I supposed to buy into the idea that the Darkling is a scary and abusive man when the alleged pattern of abuse he displays throughout the book is nearly nonexistent? In fact, Alina’s realizations after this reveal are meant to recontextualize his past actions which she interpreted as benign but really just contradict what actually occurred in the text. She fully rewrites the narrative and retcons events that happened earlier in the book as a narrative shortcut. It is Bardugo pretending that she wrote an insidious process of manipulation into the narrative, when in reality it is lazy and condescending writing.

Honestly this scene would make more sense if the story Baghra told Alina was her trying to get rid of Alina. I mean the whole reason the Darkling keeps Baghra around (despite her terrible attitude and verbally abusive tendencies) is because she has been the only constant person in his life for centuries. They have a toxic and codependent relationship where Baghra can be as mean as she wants and the Darkling will never get rid of her for fear of being alone. It would make Alina a threat to that tenure since she is his equal and opposite half who could match his eternal lifespan, making Baghra’s position less secure. Thus, Baghra scares Alina into leaving the Little Palace and endangering herself once she leaves the safety bubble.

[metvmorqhoses]

you are just salty your fave psychopath was revealed for the inhuman emotionless bastard he is

So, now the psychopath is the one who, just barely alive, hurries to free caged and dehumanized people once again, after spending his literal excruciating immortality to try and keep them safe and reaping of it nothing but hatred in return.

Now the psychopath is the one who shows infinite patience and forgiveness towards the person he loves despite her being completely undeserving of it and not showing a grain of the same consideration towards him, not even out of basic human decency, instead accusing him of everything that even mildly inconveniences her and trying to kill or maim him every other minute.

Now the psychopath is the one who unrelentingly tries to shield her from a future living hell, from taking his place as universal scapegoat and readily awaits her with open arms nonetheless.

Now the psychopath is the one who, just mutilated by his own mother (not only in body, but in soul, since his hand was the link to literally everything he held dear), who coincidentally is also his life-long abuser and tormenter, hurries by her side and cradles her dying body, sobbing and apologising, instead of giving his own wound any consideration, only to receive a spiteful "stupid boy" in return.

Now the psychopath is the one that, even dying, even knowing he's about to be finished off by the only one who should have loved and understood him in all eternity, still tries to save her in all the ways he knows how.

Now the psychopath is the one who, even in death, cannot help but respond to her face of hatred with pride and a smile.

I see. The soulful ones are for sure your beloved heroes, Alina above all.

[howtostandinsilence-deactivated]

Leigh Bardugo employs ‘tell don’t show’ in her writing so much that the series eventually becomes a reoccurrence of telling with no meaningful showing. This is because Leigh Bardugo is so bad at writing that the only way she can get people to understand what she wanted to convey in what she showed is by telling them later on in the books - usually in a fashion that is both out of character and ham-fisted in it’s insertion into the story. 

Unfortunately at this point the telling doesn’t match the previous showing, because Leigh Bardugo is incapable of maintaining consistency. Overall, Shadow and Bone is one of the worst written series’ I’ve ever read. Simply because the author cannot maintain her own consistent world state, and because she so badly understands how the real world works that she cannot properly convey the messages she wants to. Even worse, she will change her mind about the message she wants to impart halfway through and ‘tell’ the readers misinformation about what was ‘shown’ before in a blatant attempt at gaslighting them and retconning the story.

The reason this works for some readers aside from some people’s clear lack of literary analysis skills is because anybody who questions the sudden shift the novels take into ‘critiquing abusive men’ is subject to cult like tactics of isolation, shaming, harassment, and abuse from within the fandom, ending in the ultimate revoking of their ‘woke’ card, which it appears they must maintain on the regular by posting factually incorrect cross-tagged anti darkling hate with the most amount of ‘woke’ buzzwords and morally catholic beliefs possible.

[greensaplinggrace]

antis really be like: the enemies? in this lovers-to-enemies relationship? is full of the characters hurting each other while they’re enemies? 🤔 abuse

[ace-in-the-holy]

season 3 shadow and bone like the writers would write it:

1. alina is too powerful so she is stripped off her power 2. mal is the only one being able to safe alina from the darkness 3. darkling flashback/possible resurrection only to kill him off again because he is evil and cant ever be allowed to stay alife 4. nikolai decides that alina is waaaay too dangerous to be queen of ravka so zoya will take care of it, because...sure...zoya is anything better 5. now we have all the most popular ships canon, because thats the actual selling point of this whole bullshit 6. enter the amazing, breathtaking, innovative and witty storyline of kos/row 🤡 7. add some more fem poc and lgbtqi plus people so the critiques are pleased8. end is: nothing has changed for the ravka situation, grisha still suffer, but at least the fandom is happy because they get another kanej kiss and some steamy zoyalai stuff

oh wait...that really mostly sounds like the actual books ((hate will be deleted/dont agree: ignore and scroll on))

[lady-a-stuff]

I think people forget that one of the main themes in Shadow and Bone is summarized in "What is infinite? The universe and the greed of men." It's about the corruption by power, the awful things someone would do to achieve the power and basically saying that there must be a line you wouldn't cross. Alina asks Nikolai if he wouldn't walk her up the gallows steps himself if it would mean he would get closer to the throne and he gets shocked cause he doesn't know, he only hopes he wouldn't, he hopes he wouldn't cross this line, and a few moments later is she feeling ill cause she threatened to take the few comforts of a woman that lost all hope just because she wouldn't help her to get the power of the third amplifier "You’re taking to power well.… As it grows, it will hunger for more." says Baghra, and Baghra herself had tried to help her son to not cross this line but she couldn't save him.

So people forget this and go around saying Alina should have chosen the corrupted or that Mal is an asshole because he's wary of the path she's taking and this kind of infuriates me cause if you wanted a different end to Alina then you missed the point entirely

[black-kefta]

So I’m pretty sure if you actually read a single one of those ‘Alina corruption arc’ posts and what they say about Mal you’d know that we all understood the message LB was going for. It wasn’t subtle. At all.

The problem is it was handled terribly. She sort of dips her toe in with Alina becoming greedy with the one example you gave but never develops it properly.

First of all, Baghra is far from the main victim here. She raised her son to think of everyone else as lesser and and their lives too fleeting to be worth anything- the fact that he’s not more unstable (he did manage to establish a safe place for Grisha and serve various kings presumably well for hundreds of years) is frankly a miracle. She also abused snd traumatised her students so I’m not feeling too sorry for her. But, yeah, Alina is ooc here I’ll give you that- some foreshadowing that led up to nothing.

Alina is given complete control of the Second army but is far from abusing that power, instead forming a council and mostly just doing what they decide with little input. Her wanting that position in the first place is still baffling to me and just makes her come across as incredibly ignorant and naive as she stumbles her way through politics like a art major getting an internship at the Whitehouse. She becomes stressed and frustrated but doesn’t have serious dark thoughts about murdering the monarchy or using the fold.

Mal brings up Alina being ‘corrupted’ in the same breath as him feeling neglected because she keeps letting him go on hunting trips with the nobles instead of begging him to stay behind and… what? Wait for her to be done with meetings and watch her go through paperwork. Or does he want her to ignore her duties and focus on being a better girlfriend while others deal with the wars breaking out across the country?

At the end of the book she uses merzost; in an attempted murder-suicide meant to kill the Darkling. Not sure how that relates back to her being corrupt and greedy but I’m pretty sure a book’s conclusion is supposed to do that with ‘one of its main themes’.

Then in Ruin and Rising it’s practically dropped entirely- she discovers Mal is the final amplifier- the thing she’s been after since she discovered it’s existence- and refuses to even seriously consider sacrificing him. He has to force her to in the final battle where her losing her power is treated like a beautiful moment of karma.

To me and many, many other readers it felt lazy and unearned.

If you felt differently that’s fine, it’s good you liked this series beginning to end. But saying we ‘didn’t get it’ is so reductive and ignores some very valid criticisms of how the supposed themes of the books were handled.

[shadowandbone]

SHADOW AND BONE, S2 OFFICIAL POSTER 1 month til SHADOW AND BONE Season 2 1 day till SHADOW AND BONE Season 2 trailer

[lorsanbitch]

bruh if people want me to stop sympathizing with villains they need to stop making the villains the ones who want to change broken systems

[bettycooper]

insp.

[starlesszova]

TGT RANT (I'm just rambling my thoughts here at this hour of the night so please just ignore me lol😅)

The way alina's character arc is written in the trilogy reeks of internalized misogyny. She is a grisha who suppresses her powers for most of her life and in the end loses them as a "punishment" for greed. I really want to know where is this greed that alina felt?? She barely even got time to actually explore the depth of her powers and every scene of alina summoning her light is followed by her internal monologue where she's drowning in guilt because of course being powerful means she's evil :) and while alina's powers are taken from her for the non-existent greed the darkling gets away with fucking around with merzost for centuries. The burden of being morally pure is dumped entirely on alina.

Being a grisha doesn't just mean some cool magic powers but it's a part of one's very being and it's importance is compared to vital organs like heart and lungs (actual canon words). So Alina didn't just lose some powers but she lost her own identity, her individuality. She can't even be Alina Starkov anymore. All of this because bardugo wanted to shove down the narrative that "power is immoral. ambition is evil". Alina is not even allowed to embrace a part of herself because that part of her identity is linked to the darkling who basically represents "greed" and "corruption". Her character can not show any change without it being portrayed as BAD. It's like she was never allowed to actually grow or evolve as a person, nope. She was supposed to stay exactly where she started from.

The fact that she had to be one lesser part of herself to be with the love of her life or she wouldn't have a happy ending pisses me off. Why couldn't she keep her powers and still be with mal? Wait I know alina being a sun summoner while also living with the man she loves would actually be you know...a little too empowering for bardugo and since we know a woman can either be powerful or be loved so yeah she has to be a shell of herself now☺️

Idk what anyone says but to me the entire trilogy feels frustratingly patronizing and cautionary with some really strong regressive and misogynistic undertones.

[clawsofakiller]

❗VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION ❗

Hello, my fellow fanwork creators. Sorry to interrupt, but there's an important information you all should pay attention to.

In short, everyone who is eligible to vote for the election of OTW (they run AO3 and Fanlore), should vote against the candidate Tiffany G. If you have donated over 10$ to AO3 in the past year, you are eligible to vote for yourself, and for us, for every Archive of Our Own user, especially the creators in China. This is a very serious question.

In Tiffany's statement, they want to build a more strict censorship policy in AO3. They also talked about limiting the adult content so this website would "have a better image to public". And they said China banned AO3 because of "pedophilic content" but as a Chinese myself, we all know it's just because my country prohibits any sex-related website. So basically, if this Tiffany succeed to get a seat of OTW, AO3 will face more strict censorship, limited adult content, and for we, for Chinese users, the result would be more catastrophic.

Tiffany G also mentioned that they work in a governmental organisation in China. Just consider why a pro-censorship, fandom newbie(Tiffany said it themself), and government staff wants to run for the election of an organisation that is holistically against their agenda. In my personal worst imagination, once they got the seat, they will immediately pack all the information of Chinese users in AO3 and report them to the Government. The consequence will be horrible.

Please, vote for yourself, for us, and for the future of our favourite fanwork site. If you are not an eligible voter and you wanna do something, please let more people receive this information. Thank you.

[jeromiah]

HEY!

AO3 is in danger of becoming CENSORED. if you have donated $10 or more BEFORE june 30th, PLEASE exercise your right to vote (as you should have received an email to) and VOTE AGAINST TIFFANY GU, who is PRO-CENSORSHIP and PRO making AO3 “palatable” for outsiders and antis.

this is one of the few places dead dove writers/illustrators have to post our content, which is NOT illegal, immoral, or a threat to society. however, CENSORSHIP IS.

if you have the opportunity to vote, PLEASE TAKE IT.

KEEP AO3 WONDERFUL! THANKS!

[stromuprisahat]

Considering how Alina thinks and acts,Barfdugo should cut the crap and make her an out of touch teen noblewoman(perhaps the Duke's daughter). Even the Little Castle drama would make more sense if Alina was navigating the Second Army as she did the court - including the rivalries and petty disputes.

It would also “excuse” her problems with authority and inability to respect military ranks. Oh, and a noblewoman would have a reason to believe the world should be spinning around her.

Even admitting those “poor orphans” were spoiled brats, treated like the Duke’s wards would make it better. But that would cancel a lot of the pity points Alina got in the beginning and we can see that’s something LB likes for her main characters. *gestures to KoS Zoya*

[vulpeculai]