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Viking-Hel >>>>>>>>bronze-rhea-breakspear
I hated how Rhaenyra was desperate to get Helaena to tell her that she was destined for the throne.
How does Rhaenyra know that Allicent is not full of shit in this. The latter has no way of actually proving it, yet Rhaenyra just believes because.
Not to mention, why would Rhaenyra care about the word of someone she (in her own words) is a hightower and therefore her enemy? Besides, as far as Rhaenyra is concerned, she was chosen by her father. She is the heir to throne, so who cares what others say?
I was with you until that last part, anon.
Rhaenyra being named by Viserys absolutely matters, but “who cares what anyone else says?” is exactly the problem. Succession in Westeros does not operate on personal conviction alone. A ruler can designate an heir, but recognition from the realm, powerful houses, institutions and competing claimants still matters enormously. The entire Dance exists because Viserys left behind two conflicting bases for succession and then apparently expected everyone to behave after he died. Brilliant planning.
That said, I agree the show making Rhaenyra suddenly desperate for mystical reassurance is fucking ridiculous. Her political claim should stand or fall on law, precedent, oaths, alliances and force, not on Helaena functioning as a supernatural customer-service desk for her legitimacy.
If you’re in the UK, did you also get scared by the sudden Severe Alert at 7pm this evening?
If you’re in the UK, did you also get scared by the sudden Severe Alert at 7pm this evening?
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Some of you have never been host to a Goa’uld and it shows
Some of you have never had the Ancient Repository of Knowledge downloaded into your head and it shows.
Some of you have never ascended and it shows
some of you have never had your body overrun with replicator nanites and it shows
some of you have never had your DNA changed by a giant alien bug and then turned into a giant cobweb and it shows
Some of you have never been stuck on a glacier with MacGyver and it shows
Also some of you have never watched Wormhole X-Treme and it shows
Some of you have never touched an alternate universe mirror and witnessed the downfall of humanity and it shows
Some of you have never de-evolved into a neanderthal and it shows
Some of you have never had to explain what a flying machine, UAV or aircraft is to not one but two primitive races and it shows.
Some of you have never accidentally married 30 days old alien woman and it shows.
Some of you have never had your consciousness transferred from your body into a base mainframe and back again and it shows.
Some of you have never been sent 48,000 years into the future and been saved by the hologram of your long dead best friend who dedicated the rest of his life to this and it shows.
Some of you have never been transformed into a life-sucking alien space vampire and overthrown a regime before turning back into your regular human self (which just gave birth) and it shows.
Some of you have never been forced to run for seven years only eventually be forced back onto your ruinous homeworld and made to be the entertainment of the vampire-like life sucking aliens and it shows
I’m very interested in how madness is depicted in the play because I’ve read different perspectives on that. Everyone says Aerys was presented as mad (a la King Lear), that Rhaella is driven mad by his abuse, but I’ve read that they investigated love as a kind of madness, that Rhaegar and even Lyanna at times seem to be “prophecy mad” etc. So, I’d love to read what discussion you think they were intentionally having about it and any contrasts and correlations they were making between the characters regarding it.
Well, one of my favourite lines came from Aerys. When Rhaegar is going on about Aegon the Conqueror, and his dream Aerys says ‘Aegon dreamed of power’ and, paraphrasing here, said that Aegon/others told that story in order to justify the slaughter. Which was a sane and significant moment I felt (partly because I felt it was a snip towards the Other Show and its incessant mentioning of it as if to justify him doing it and everything going on there). Sometimes he would come across sane but then the next sentence smoothly slid into madness and you’d go, wait what?
Rhaella joined in the ‘burn him!’ With I think it was Rickard, which was a surprise but the abuse she did suffer at Aerys’ hands mayhap made her mentally struggle and snap in life.
They do look at love as madness, because look what they ‘do’ for love - if Lyanna and Rhaegar truly were, they don’t say he manipulated her, but I felt it didn’t fully say she went unwillingly or not. From my reading of the Lyanna being ‘prophecy mad’ I don’t truly see it as being like Rhaegar’s obsession. In the beginning she doesn’t want to be married off with no choice - fitting I felt for her character - and she would do anything not to be a lady nursing a lord’s heir in a tower (paraphrasing again but that was said for the irony) and by the end, when she learns her father and brother are dead, and likely because of her actions, I think she turns to it more as a coping mechanism; to find a reason why they died, to escape her on sense of guilt that gnaws at her because of it. Rhaegar by the end was not as prophecy driven it felt, which I thought wasn’t right for him. But he was in the beginning; poor Elia has Aegon, and because it - the three heads - comes up in conversation I think with Aerys and him mocking Rhaegar for plotting, the latter asks his poor wife, ‘can she have another?’ Ser, give her a bloody minute, would you?
I’ve read the acting and puppets and visions are all sublime, so I’m curious, what did you enjoy most about the production? Was it the stagecraft? Was there a particular reading of a character you found revelatory? An idea or theme you enjoyed their take on? Was there a standout character or moment for you?
The stagecraft, the designs, the choreography of the fight scenes! So well done and creative. All of the puppetry was amongst my favourite, when they used them for jousts or fights or anything, really.
The beginning was intense, heavy in a good way, and where we sat we had the Starklings run past us to go to their ‘booth’ for the tourney. We also had Robert later standing there goading us into clapping to entice the jousters on. I loved that part.
Edit: Robert had emotions beyond anger and lust. He was hurt still by his parents’ deaths and he would cry when it hurt. That was a side we don’t really see fully by GoT.
And he would mutter when he stood by us, like ‘ah fuck me’ which made those who heard laugh.
Some other fans said that Jon and Dany are born at the same time as Aerys and Rhaegar are kinda racing to father the third head of the dragon. What did you make of that choice?
Was it mainly in service of exploring the Aerys and Rhaegar dynamic, created as an opportunity to give Rhealla more to work with (I’ve read she has a great moment in a speech that references Dany), just a creative choice to associate it more closely to GoT as it’s the prequel story? Or maybe it was changed from book canon as a “fan service” moment to acknowledge the never ending debate about which character is the prince that was promised?
It is implied they are both born under the red comet, or conceived, in order to have the third head. They called Dany the third child of Aerys and Rhaella, which is not true - it is even mentioned she, Rhaella, lost children - so I felt that was a little forced to connect to the show. I don’t think, personally, it was to explore the dynamic between Rhaegar and Aerys (in my opinion, it did not, Harrenhal did that more so).
Rhaella does have more of a backstory/we hear more of her thoughts and the speech she had about having another child - specifically a vengeful daughter - was emotive and intense, and that is more than we have even had from her beyond dying in childbirth (Dead Mothers Club strikes again!)
I would love to hear anything you can recall about Catelyn in the play. I know she doesn’t have many scenes, the ones I’ve read about are a wedding/wedding night scene with Ned, her singing the Mother’s Hymn during the rebellion, telling Benjen Robb’s name, and a final scene with Ned in Winterfell, were there any moments she had that specifically stood out to you? How was she characterized would you say? Was she being paralleled or contrasted with another character?
And of course, how was the NedCat of it all? 🥹
The NedCat of it all was very considerate of each other. They acknowledge on the wedding night they don’t know each other and that they’re in positions not meant for them (being Ned’s wife and him being Lord of Winterfell).
I really did like the singing of Mother’s Hymn because it made me think of Sansa immediately! And eventually the other mothers joined in, Lyanna, Elia and Rhaella.
And to add they end with Cat noting that Ned promised fidelity and truthfulness. And he does answer honestly but indirectly about Jon. And that is where it ended. Loved it.
I would love to hear anything you can recall about Catelyn in the play. I know she doesn’t have many scenes, the ones I’ve read about are a wedding/wedding night scene with Ned, her singing the Mother’s Hymn during the rebellion, telling Benjen Robb’s name, and a final scene with Ned in Winterfell, were there any moments she had that specifically stood out to you? How was she characterized would you say? Was she being paralleled or contrasted with another character?
And of course, how was the NedCat of it all? 🥹
The NedCat of it all was very considerate of each other. They acknowledge on the wedding night they don’t know each other and that they’re in positions not meant for them (being Ned’s wife and him being Lord of Winterfell).
I really did like the singing of Mother’s Hymn because it made me think of Sansa immediately! And eventually the other mothers joined in, Lyanna, Elia and Rhaella.
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The most ironic thing about CondalHess fucking up Team Green and ruining Aegon’s character before it even took off, and basically destroying any legal claim Aegon had to the crown just because they wanted fans to root for Rhaenyra:
Is that they can’t change her ending. She has to die, because Aegon is the one remembered in history as king. So no matter what they did in s2–having Aemond spontaneously betray and try to kill him, make Sunfyre appear dead for 10 episodes—they still had to bring the dragon back in order to finish the story.
Same with Maelor and Daeron. Only an idiot believes they had any actual intentions to include either of them until too late. But they wanted to prove a point to GRRM’s blog post, no? So Helaena’s spontaneously pregnant too, and Daeron suddenly exists but only as a redhead no one mentioned even once in s1.
But Sunfyre…Joffrey spoiled that ending a decade ago. They can’t change it no more than GRRM would. How the story gets there perhaps, or how they go about it, but the end stays the same: Rhaenyra will die, and Aegon will be king.
But on the bright side, in their attempt to undermine Aegon’s claim, they’ve unwittingly made his rule ordained by the gods themselves. A dead dragon, a king most believed killed—suddenly both are alive and somewhat thriving. Rhaenyra’s rule crumbles by the minute, allies turning every second, her inability to do anything right compounded by the sudden knowledge that Aegon is alive?
Aegon, who has a Dreamer for a wife, who has already seen his rise. A son who’ll soon be born, and a daughter still alive? Whose dragon fell from the sky and thought dead for months, only to wake when Aegon needed him most?
Rhaenyra gets a tapestry of the throne destroying her, and dragon dying at her back; Aegon got the rising sun behind his head.
I’ll be seeing the Mad King play. Should be interesting; I have seen the discourse and I will watch with my hopefully analytical-ish head on.
Okay the stage already is amazing. We can’t take photos - we have sworn shield stickers - but the ambience is perfect.
I’ll be seeing the Mad King play. Should be interesting; I have seen the discourse and I will watch with my hopefully analytical-ish head on.
Okay, I am really obsessed with this joke. I literally reblog it every time I see it.
I would too ngl
Oh so they ruined Daeron too. I see I see. Instead of leading the entire army to avenge his sister, brother, and nephew, he doesn't want anything. Nothing new here: they did the same with Alicent and Helaena.
Real Daeron would never have said that.
Ive seen a few people get mad about the tweet that says "this has been talked about extensively, youre just 21" on the basis that the poster is referring to a trans girl talking about silence of the lambs.
And look, okay, listen. I have a film degree. Im not in any an expert on cinema nor am I a film scholar but I do have some higher formal education on the topic, and I am a trans person who has, unfortunately, been 21. Here's my 2 cents:
Firstly, trans-coded villains in horror movies (namely the "man in a dress" archetype) is pretty cinema 101. It IS so extensively talked about that you were probably drawing an eye in the back of the lecture hall if you dont remember anything being said about it. If you ever take a horror movie class specifically then you are absolutely guaranteed to have this conversation and have the plethora of scholarship about it thrown at you for required reading.
Secondly, I do not like this idea that simply being a bit rude or short with someone of a particular demographic is always and exclusively rooted in a prejudice towards the identity group(s) they are a part of. There is a VERY big difference between active transphobia and just being a bit of a dick, and conflating the two is going to make things very messy and potentially dangerous. For starters, you are going to create an extremely paranoid and jumpy bunch of young trans people who are absolutely convinced that the entire world is out to kill them when they inevitably encounter some random asshole in the real world. And you are going to give a whole bunch of conservatives a whole bunch of ammunition to say that we think every minor inconvenience or moment of discomfort is a targeted attack against us, frankly because you are acting like it is.
Additionally, every 21 year old has a very weird superiority complex. I did, you did/do/will. It just comes with the territory. Youre having your first taste of true independence and are probably in undergrad, which is an environment that drip-feeds you a lot of rewards for doing essentially what you just did in high school again but at a slightly higher difficulty with less social ostracism. If you live on your own or in the dorms with other 21 year olds, you will all just feed into each other's superiority complexes. You end up convinced that you and your friends are the smartest people alive and the first ones to ever come up with certain ideas, that I promise have been thought of by millions of 21 year olds before you. This includes "has anyone else noticed that trans-coded villains are common in horror movies?" And I think its justified to have a bit of a reality check in someone saying "yes, everyone has, this has been discussed extensively for generations, youre just 21."
Finally, I do not appreciate in the slightest the response to this tweet being "silence of the lambs has no artistic merit and should be scrubbed from the media landscape entirely because of Buffalo Bill." If you personally are not comfortable with/do not have the ability to look past the trans-coded villain archetype you dont have to watch it, but to act like the presence of a poorly-aged trope completely negates all the very real positive impact a foundational film did for modern horror is infuriatingly anti-intellectual and betrays your one-dimensional morality around media, as well as your complete inability to look at something objectively.
As one final thought, the idea that a snippy tweet about being frustrated with typical 21 year old behavior is "ageist" is the most 21 year old shit ive ever heard. Truly impressive levels of missing the point.