Kardasi according to tinsnip and Vyc

Updates most commonly on Sundays (because that's Vyc's day off)!

[cardassianlanguage]

Hello everyone!

Some of you may have noticed that the old link to the Kardasi dictionary is no longer working. This is due to a security update on Drive that took place a few months ago. I didn't expect to need to do anything about it, but it seems there's a lot more interest in the dictionary than I expected!

So, please check the reblogs of this post for the updated link to the file. (Does tumblr still hate links? Or is this old workaround finally unnecessary?)

Thank you so much for your patience with me, and for your continued interest in this old project of @tinsnip and mine. 💚

[cardassianlanguage]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2wcj3iYdWofb3Q5WHU1Y3Q3dzA/view?usp=drivesdk&resourcekey=0-Ij6ZJ-NqVEdtkuPg1_EYYA

And here we go! Please let me know if this link isn't working either.

Enjoy!

[cardassianlanguage]

Hello everyone!

Some of you may have noticed that the old link to the Kardasi dictionary is no longer working. This is due to a security update on Drive that took place a few months ago. I didn't expect to need to do anything about it, but it seems there's a lot more interest in the dictionary than I expected!

So, please check the reblogs of this post for the updated link to the file. (Does tumblr still hate links? Or is this old workaround finally unnecessary?)

Thank you so much for your patience with me, and for your continued interest in this old project of @tinsnip and mine. 💚

[cardassianlanguage]

I just finished reading James Swallow’s Day of the Vipers, the first book in the Terok Nor trilogy. While I can’t really recommend it, he did at least include some new Cardassian vocabulary. Most of it I’ll be working on over the next while (I’ve had an idea for a Cardassian geography post in the back of my mind for ages), but I can post a couple of things right now.

The Oralian Way features as a subplot throughout the book, and at one point, Swallow names the masks used in Oralian recitations as “Faces of the Fates.” This would be, in Kardasi, olla aThelaik (ohl-lah ah-Thay-lah-eek).

He also mentions seafruit as a sea cucumber-esque Cardassian food. Kaleanes (kah-lay-ah-nays) were probably named before people realised these things were actually alive. Whoops!

These two words, and probably a few more from the book, will be added to the next dictionary update.

Have a good one, all. <3

[tinsnip]

kardasi phonology

Ten fascinating minutes of Kardasi phonology, from A to Zh.

(Also featuring little snip and littler snip.)

[cardassianlanguage]

Good morning!

Our Kardasi doesn’t have a word for reputation! :O

Here’s the direct thought process for how I came up with one, and the word for a nasty little job known as a ‘reputation-tangler’, not so much a blackmailer as a reputation-smearer--

Reputation: what is known of you, your public truth.

Public Truth Public Face Out Face?

No word for face! I don't know where it would come from... Okay, it's where your eyes and mouth are... It's your face. Let's not get crazy.

Face: oTho.

Now, outer, outward facing-- Prefix meaning "outside" = caf-

So cafoTho = reputation, your outward face.

Now, I want to twist it. But not super rudely.

Actually, yes, rudely: a reputation-tangler is a gross thing.

So it's s'HunjoTho.

Nice!

[cardassianlanguage]

Are you guys still working on this?

Yes, we are. However, we both have jobs, many hobbies, and I at least am dealing with a great deal of strain in my real life, as well as in terms of mental health. Updates may not be frequent, but they happen when I or tinsnip have the spoons.

[cardassianlanguage]

two questions, one specific and one horrendously vague: 1) what would the word for Grandmother/Grandfather be? 2) do you have any tips for people coming up with their own Kardasi words? most of my conlang exp is with Mando'a, and you can basically just string existing words/roots together for your new concept and call it a day. this blog has been great for my return to DS9/Cardassian fandom, tyvm

1) As is usually the case with the Cardassians, ask a simple question, get a complicated answer. There are multiple words for “grandfather” and “grandmother,” and they all depend on upon age and status. @tinsnip and I went into the answer in more detail here.

2) Okay, well, the way I make up Kardasi words is very time-consuming, so I’m not sure how useful it would be, but here we are:

My first step is to actually hit Dictionary.com. I look up the English word and check its etymology. Is it from Old English? Is it a loan word? If so, what root does it come from in its original language?

Two examples:

a) When I was looking to make colour words, I looked up “white” to see its origins and discovered that it’s related to “wheat.” Which is interesting to me, because I assumed that when people were looking for a word to describe something white, they’d compare it to clouds first. What are the Cardassians most likely to think of as white? Do I want to go with a similarity to wheat, or pick something else? (Snow is probably out.)

b) If I were to come up with a word for “fantastic,” there are two things worth considering. One, its original usage has shifted in relatively recent times, from something bizarre and out of a fantasy to something really great. Second is the fact that “fantastic” came to the English language via Latin, and that via Greek.

Again, via Dictionary.com:

1350-1400; Middle English fantastik pertaining to the imaginative faculty < Medieval Latin fantasticus, variant of Late Latin phantasticus < Greek phantastikós able to present or show (to the mind), equivalent to *phantad-, base of phantázein to make visible (akin to phānós light, bright, phaínein to make appear) + -tikos -tic

So, in this case, I ask myself: Is the word I’m trying to translate likely to be native to Kardasi, or more likely to be a loan word from, say, Vulcan or the Federation? And am I translating the word with its current sense or its original sense?

(As a minor point, when I was asked to translate “kismesissitude,” first I looked up several definitions of what the concept actually was [not being a Homestuck]. Then I thought about what the word broke down into [kismet + nemesis] and how its components related to the definition. And THEN I started thinking about how the Cardassians would think of the concept–would it be identical? Similar?)

My next step is to start looking over Cardassian words that are similar in meaning to the word I’m creating, if there are any. (I’ve started to make a list of these to simplify the process.) Learning one of J.R.R. Tolkien’s Elven languages, Sindarin, gave me this idea, as Tolkien created a bunch of root sounds for concepts (fire, light, growth, etc.) and built his languages out of those. (Here is where they’re listed, for the curious.)

If I have a sound that seems to turn up in numerous words (ex. “ot” turns up in both alcohol-related words [delot, alcohol] and words having to do with creating/drinking alcohol [ot'ta, bottle]), I’ll find a way to incorporate it or something similar into the word I’m creating. If not, I’ll think about how common the word is. For example, words that are very common or basic (cat, bed, tree, house) tend to have fewer syllables. Words that express more complex or nuanced concepts (feline, repose, arboreal, condominium) tend to have more. At the same time, words that are very basic in the English language (”snow,” again) might require a more complex word, or even a loanword in Kardasi.

Finally, I take into account the language as a whole. Which sounds turn up next to each other more often? Which sound combinations are rarer? If I’ve never seen the combination “zxq” in Kardasi before now, I’m not very likely to include it in a new word.

…And yes, I more or less follow all of these steps every time I make a new word in the language. I’m not sure how helpful this is for anyone else, but I feel as though this is at least useful to keep in mind while conlanging.

Disclaimer: While I’m a big ol’ languages nerd, I’ve never formally studied language formation or anything like that. I’ve been doing more reading about it lately, but I have a degree in music education, not linguistics. So please keep that in mind.

Thanks for your question! It was fun to write down the steps I’ve been keeping in my head. <3

[cardassianlanguage]

I KNEW I WAS GOING TO FORGET SOMETHING

After taking into account the language as a whole in terms of which sounds are more or less “Cardassian” than others, there’s also thinking about how the language functions. Kardasi makes use of prefixes and suffixes to clarify meaning to a greater degree than, say, English does.

While English does have its fair share of these, they tend to be a bit more straightforward. (Ex. submarine = sub + marine, below + ocean, more or less). In Kardasi, you can get quite a bit more complex. (’pe, a suffix meaning “to be deliberately concealed.”)

Finally, if I’m asked to translate a set phrase in English, I dig into the origins of the phrase and then think of how that would be expressed by a Cardassian. The phrase “You’re welcome” as a response to “thank you” is a good example. Via Grammarphobia:

The earliest reference in the OED is from a 1960 newspaper article, though the dictionary has one from a 1907 short story that’s quite close: “Thank you,” said the girl, with a pleasant smile. “You’re quite welcome,” said the skipper.

[Update, Oct. 4, 2016: A reader found an earlier citation in The House by the Churchyard, an 1863 novel by the Irish writer Sheridan Le Fanu: “ ‘I thank ye again, sir.’ ‘You’re welcome, my honey,’ rejoined Toole, affectionately.”]

Why “you’re welcome”? I can’t give you a definitive answer. But I suspect that it’s simply another way of saying “it’s a pleasure” or “the pleasure is mine.” Remember, one of the early uses of “welcome” was to describe something pleasurable.

However, Cardassian culture as a whole tends to be much less on the pleasure side of things. And so I wound up translating the equivalent phrase as “It is my duty.”

...Probably at least one more addition to come as I think of it.

[cardassianlanguage]

two questions, one specific and one horrendously vague: 1) what would the word for Grandmother/Grandfather be? 2) do you have any tips for people coming up with their own Kardasi words? most of my conlang exp is with Mando'a, and you can basically just string existing words/roots together for your new concept and call it a day. this blog has been great for my return to DS9/Cardassian fandom, tyvm

1) As is usually the case with the Cardassians, ask a simple question, get a complicated answer. There are multiple words for "grandfather" and "grandmother," and they all depend on upon age and status. @tinsnip and I went into the answer in more detail here.

2) Okay, well, the way I make up Kardasi words is very time-consuming, so I'm not sure how useful it would be, but here we are:

My first step is to actually hit Dictionary.com. I look up the English word and check its etymology. Is it from Old English? Is it a loan word? If so, what root does it come from in its original language?

Two examples:

a) When I was looking to make colour words, I looked up "white" to see its origins and discovered that it's related to "wheat." Which is interesting to me, because I assumed that when people were looking for a word to describe something white, they'd compare it to clouds first. What are the Cardassians most likely to think of as white? Do I want to go with a similarity to wheat, or pick something else? (Snow is probably out.)

b) If I were to come up with a word for "fantastic," there are two things worth considering. One, its original usage has shifted in relatively recent times, from something bizarre and out of a fantasy to something really great. Second is the fact that "fantastic" came to the English language via Latin, and that via Greek.

Again, via Dictionary.com:

1350-1400; Middle English fantastik pertaining to the imaginative faculty < Medieval Latin fantasticus, variant of Late Latin phantasticus < Greek phantastikós able to present or show (to the mind), equivalent to *phantad-, base of phantázein to make visible (akin to phānós light, bright, phaínein to make appear) + -tikos -tic

So, in this case, I ask myself: Is the word I'm trying to translate likely to be native to Kardasi, or more likely to be a loan word from, say, Vulcan or the Federation? And am I translating the word with its current sense or its original sense?

(As a minor point, when I was asked to translate "kismesissitude," first I looked up several definitions of what the concept actually was [not being a Homestuck]. Then I thought about what the word broke down into [kismet + nemesis] and how its components related to the definition. And THEN I started thinking about how the Cardassians would think of the concept--would it be identical? Similar?)

My next step is to start looking over Cardassian words that are similar in meaning to the word I'm creating, if there are any. (I've started to make a list of these to simplify the process.) Learning one of J.R.R. Tolkien's Elven languages, Sindarin, gave me this idea, as Tolkien created a bunch of root sounds for concepts (fire, light, growth, etc.) and built his languages out of those. (Here is where they're listed, for the curious.)

If I have a sound that seems to turn up in numerous words (ex. "ot" turns up in both alcohol-related words [delot, alcohol] and words having to do with creating/drinking alcohol [ot'ta, bottle]), I'll find a way to incorporate it or something similar into the word I'm creating. If not, I'll think about how common the word is. For example, words that are very common or basic (cat, bed, tree, house) tend to have fewer syllables. Words that express more complex or nuanced concepts (feline, repose, arboreal, condominium) tend to have more. At the same time, words that are very basic in the English language (”snow,” again) might require a more complex word, or even a loanword in Kardasi.

Finally, I take into account the language as a whole. Which sounds turn up next to each other more often? Which sound combinations are rarer? If I've never seen the combination "zxq" in Kardasi before now, I'm not very likely to include it in a new word.

...And yes, I more or less follow all of these steps every time I make a new word in the language. I'm not sure how helpful this is for anyone else, but I feel as though this is at least useful to keep in mind while conlanging.

Disclaimer: While I'm a big ol' languages nerd, I've never formally studied language formation or anything like that. I've been doing more reading about it lately, but I have a degree in music education, not linguistics. So please keep that in mind.

Thanks for your question! It was fun to write down the steps I’ve been keeping in my head. <3

[cardassianlanguage]

Are you responsible for the word "prUt" I see in fanfics? And do you know that "prut" means "fart" in Swedish? My Swedish lovemate has explicitly banned me from mentioning this word due to the ...mental pictures it triggers.

Oh my god.

@tinsnip?

It looks like you REALLY did a thing. /dying laughing

[cardassianlanguage]

i can see i'll be asking you quite a few questions ahah i hope you don't mind... how do you form possessive pronouns? on Galileo Ace, it talks about possession using the suffix -ik, but if I'm saying his/her, how do i replace the noun? can I use the pronoun si and add on -ik? thank you!

I don’t mind in the slightest! Grammar isn’t my strong suit in any language, but I believe I know what you’re asking. If I’m answering the wrong question, by all means let me know. And @tinsnip, if I’ve managed to mess up the grammar of our own damned conlang, come give me a smack. :D;;

So, as an example, let’s take “the woman’s knife.” You’d say this as ra-ruxt Ul-ik (the-woman knife-possesses). If you want to change that to “her knife,” it would be si Ul-ik (she/her knife-possesses). And if you want to say that “it is hers,” it would be si hi-ik (she/her it-possesses).

All clear?

[cardassianlanguage]

I just finished reading James Swallow’s Day of the Vipers, the first book in the Terok Nor trilogy. While I can’t really recommend it, he did at least include some new Cardassian vocabulary. Most of it I’ll be working on over the next while (I’ve had an idea for a Cardassian geography post in the back of my mind for ages), but I can post a couple of things right now.

The Oralian Way features as a subplot throughout the book, and at one point, Swallow names the masks used in Oralian recitations as “Faces of the Fates.” This would be, in Kardasi, olla aThelaik (ohl-lah ah-Thay-lah-eek).

He also mentions seafruit as a sea cucumber-esque Cardassian food. Kaleanes (kah-lay-ah-nays) were probably named before people realised these things were actually alive. Whoops!

These two words, and probably a few more from the book, will be added to the next dictionary update.

Have a good one, all. <3

[cardassianlanguage]

So out of curiosity, what's the Kardasi vocabulary for kismesissitude like? (Kismesissitude being essentially a form of romance based around hate.) Given that Cardassians flirt by arguing, I feel it shouldn't be too alien a concept to them...

This was a fun one for me to figure out, because not being a Homestuck, I was unfamiliar with the concept. So I went and researched it and picked apart the potential etymology before figuring out how the Cardassians would label the emotion.

First off, you’re absolutely right that kismessitude would be very present in Cardassian culture! That whole episode with O’Brien and Gilora Rejal seems to prove as much.

As far as I can tell, kismesis seems to be a combination of the words “kismet” (fate) and “nemesis.” While there is a word for “fate” in Kardasi, aThela (ah-thay-lah), it’s a very old word that’s probably not best used widely–too much like religion. Likely, though, it had something to do with the original name for the concept.

Instead, I’d suggest a safer alternative to be tase’arget’er (tahs-ay’ahr-gayt’ayr). Essentially, it’s the opposite of love (e’ being the prefix for [at least outwardly] loving relationships and tas- negating it), and features eternal (’er) arguments (arget). Whether those are arguments or arguments…probably depends on the people involved in the kismesissitude.

Thanks for a fun question!

[cardassianlanguage]

Assuming that Cardassians can actually see it, what is the Kardasi for 'ultraviolet', as in the colour? Also the word 'modesty' is lacking in the dictionary, wouldn't they have a word for that concept? Also, 'blue' isn't in the dictionary. If blue were, say, as significant to them as it is to Bower Birds, what word would that be?

So I went and did a little reading about the science behind ultraviolet light, because that’s how I roll. While humans as a rule can’t see ultraviolet light, people with a condition called aphakia, where they’re missing the lens of their eye, actually can. The colour ultraviolet is described by them as “whitish blue” or “whitish violet.”

Since your Cardassians favour the colour blue (which I haven’t got ‘round to adding to the dictionary yet but is maract), let’s go with the “whitish blue,” description as to how they’d describe it.

GarImaract (gah-rye-mah-rahsht–that’s a capital i and not an L, damn this sans-serif font), then. The literal meaning is “bright (as in bright light) blue,” since it would probably be a much more intense colour to them than most “normal” blues.

“Modesty” would probably be jiknu’pe (zheek-nuh’pay), in the sense that you’re deliberately concealing yourself. Presumably there are multiple nuances involved, though; Garak does talk about hiding himself in plain sight in A Stitch In Time fairly often, so that could be an additional layer. A simple (in the sense of modest) tailor indeed….

[cardassianlanguage]

Could you help me with some naturalistic words that I can't find in the dictionary? Particularly: moonlight, sunshine, sand, rain, wind, grass, river, ocean. I'm also wondering how to form similes, for example if you wanted to say that someone or something was "like the sunlight"...? But in the form of a single adjective, the way we use the suffix '-esque' to form the word statuesque. Hopefully that makes sense.

Your wish is my command! (Eventually.)Since we didn’t already have a name for a moon (Cardassia Prime has three), that needed to be made: prisok. Which makes “moonlight” prisokirc. (pree-soh-keersh)Given that Cardassians are not fond of bright lights, and their name for their sun translates as “the Watcher,” the word for sunlight has fewer positive connotations: ra’ajev prisik, “the Watcher’s eye.” (rah’ah-zhayv pree-seek)There was actually already a word for rain, hec (haysh), but considering the word is also slang for “semen,” you might have missed it...! :PAs for the rest:

Sand: Xass (X = like the final CH in Bach, plus “ahss”)Wind: sU (soo)Grass: maka (mah-kah)River: mat’ta (maht’tah)Ocean: ea (ay-ah)

Regarding comparatives, you can use the prefix Chi-, which means “close to” or “almost.” So, if you wanted to say someone was like moonlight, they would be chiprisokirc. A bit of a mouthful, but that’s Cardassians for you.

[cardassianlanguage]

I'm doing some culture build and need some help with a word--what would the Kardasi word for 'succubus/concubus/incubus' be? These would be seductive monsters that enthrall and tempt good Cardassians away from Virtuous Behaviour(/The State?) and are very beautiful. And blue. My cardassians like blue a lot bc bowerbird reasons.

I actually had a chat about this with @tinsnip, because this is some neat worldbuilding that I wanted to do justice.

So! For starters, if blue is very popular with your Cardassians, then there ought to be a word for it. As it turns out, among humans at least, linguistically, it takes a while for words distinguishing blue and green to develop. Depending on how old your legends about the various ‘buses are, they might be referred to as “mar” (currently used for green only) instead of “maract” (mahr-asht), blue which I now need to add to the dictionary.

I’m going to suggest “marbet” (mahr-bayt) as the oldest base word for these creatures. Cardassians generally don’t fuss about gender much, and I’m not so sure it would matter much to them whether that sort of monster were lying on top, lying under, or switching, so that’s less important. If you’d like, though, I could come up with multiple words.

Also, many of the oldest religious/mythological figures have regional variants of their names. The goddess who governed the worst of the afterlife was known as Arik'aca, Arik'vassa, or Varikassa. The mother goddess Glacett was also known as Marett or even Lametta. Other gods, like Endaras (a goddess who appears to hardworking Cardassians to grant them her favour) and Oralius tend to have names without many, or any, regional variants. So it’s very possible that there could be other names for these beings. I can lend a hand there, too. <3

One thing that might be kind of fun would be to refer to these monsters as working against Endaras’ will as they tempt faithful Cardassians away from their hard work. Not sure if that would fit with your worldbuilding, but you never know.

Thanks for your patience, and happy writing!(All deities mentioned are from the Cardassian Sourcebook.)

[cardassianlanguage]

Still alive

Hey all. <3 Still alive here, just in the middle of Seasonal Affective Disorder. My energy and ability to think tend to go down the crapper this time of year, so I’m likely to be extra-slow at asks until the days get longer.

Thanks for your patience!

[cardassianlanguage]

hi! sorry if this has been asked before, but how do you form plurals in Cardassian?

No worries about potentially repeating a question! If I ever get repeats, I can always direct them to the relevant post.

So, the short answer to your question is: you don’t. In Kardasi, the number or amount of what you’re talking about is determined by context, or by specifically modifying your sentence (ten people, many animals).

This is one of the features of the language inherited from Galileo Ace’s framework, and I’m fond of it. Cardassians like precision--why say “They taught the students” when you can say “They taught the thirty-one students”?