What denomination would you be if you just attended the closest church? I would be Episcopalian.
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What denomination would you be if you just attended the closest church? I would be Episcopalian.
I am a dog jumping on the couch to lick God's face and He does not tell me off and He laughs and scratches behind my ears and O what bliss
Psalm 126 above. Quotation below from Dorothy Day.Ā
I'm disdainful of the culture war in the church. I think that the whole issue of queer people in religious discourse is, to put it simply, stupid. Sometimes I feel like a "bad" progressive or queer Christian on here because I don't particularly care if my church is vocally affirming or if the pastor wears a rainbow stole or whateverāit's nice, but I don't need it to be the center of my religious life and it's not what I center my piety or spirituality on. I just want to be included and not othered. I don't need my queerness celebrated, I just need it to be not a big deal. I'm not even an assimilationist, church is just not where I go to for these things.
And yet, I still can't escape the wars. I'm looking for a new PCP because I have a full time job now and I haven't seen a doctor in over 5 years. I looked at the website of someplace promising, and their first value is "Christ-centeredness," and my blood froze.
I hate that! I hate it so much! Why should I be afraid of the other members of the Body of Christ! Why can't I just believe them when they say they love everyone!
Op turned off reblogs but I MUST
my contribution: characters w any strong religious belief or disbelief are poorly written bc the writers are casual cultural christians or agnostics who have rarely properly reflected on belief/disbelief personally, societally, and philosophically
is it a sin to be more angry at the driver of a Cybertruck than I would be if someone with another car acted the same way
would you tell someone who wants to follow jesus.. what denomination to go after? im terribly afraid to be wrong about that...
Ultimately the right denomination for someone is really personal and contextual, so I can't give one answer that would be right for everyone, or give an answer without knowing the person. Without knowing who or where you're located, it's really difficult for me to make any specific suggestions. My main advice would be to try different denominations out! The first church you walk into doesn't have to be your church forever; walking inside is not a commitment. You can try as many out as you like before you settle on one.
I don't have a lot of experience church shopping, and even less denomination shopping. I was raised Lutheran, was taken from my childhood church against my will, and struggled to find a way back. I ended up going back to the Lutheran church mainly because it was familiar. I felt that I needed to go to church and I knew there was a Lutheran church nearby that flew a rainbow flag, and I figured why not go back to where I started. I didn't know if I was Christian still, even. I wasn't sure of anything at all. My point with sharing my own story is just that it's okay not to be sure and it's okay to act before you are sure!
And really any church is full of people who don't agree on a lot of things, who aren't sure about the tenets of their denomination, who feel conflicted when they say the creed, who doubt that God exists or that they're in the right place. I would prioritize finding a church that feels welcoming and accepts you; you can believe any theology and worship in any church, truly.
That said I'm partial to the ELCA and Episcopalian churches hahaha. If you want to talk more privately about what you might like, I'm happy to answer over DM, truly. I'm happy to help research churches in your area, or if you want to run a church website by me and see what I think, I can do that.
I hope I've said something useful, feel free to follow up if you need to. <3 Oh, and you can always take it to God in prayer. If you aren't already, you might notice signs pointing you in some direction that you don't notice when you aren't praying on it. I pray that God will guide you and make your way clear.
I can speak a little bit as someone who changed denominations/traditions! I'm a Lutheran nowāpretty comfortablyābut I grew up Presbyterian.
My family and church community were never dogmatic about denominationāI was baptized Catholic, and visited Methodist and non-denominational congregations with my mom and Catholic and Episcopalian congregations with my dad throughout my childhood and youth, so there was never room for anyone to say "this is the REAL Christian denomination!" haha. But my home was always in a local Presbyterian congregation; I knew many folks there, sang in the choir, did mission trips and youth group, and was confirmed there.
We learned a little bit about Presbyterianism during my confirmation class, with the thing that stood out to me most was John Calvin's emphasis on the sovereignty of God. But, in the end, I was a Presbyterian not because of any of its unique faith claims, but because of my community there.
When I went to college, I found and became involved in a campus ministry affiliated with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. I didn't really know anything about Lutherans or Lutheranism, but they had weekly dnd games and meals, and the pastor was explicitly queer-affirming (I love you, Pastor B š«¶). Also, a good friend of mine from another club had grown up Lutheran, so they ended up joining me there. My friend was on a whole spiritual journey of their own, and is now in seminary to become a pastor themself! I met another current best friend of mine there, too, who's now a PhD candidate in religious studies, so between these two nerds (super affectionate) and my own interests in church history and theology, I learned a lot more.
During the pandemic, my now-seminarian friend led a small study group on different traditions, and I got to speak for the Calvinists/Reformed. And honestly... I just didn't believe it. I don't believe in the Reformed conception of God, and the more I tried to hold onto the Reformed name for myself, the more it was clear I was doing it for "old times' sake" than because I was actually a member of that group. Also I was like 21 or 22, so "old times' sake" is kind of silly.
On the other hand, while I'm still very new to Lutheranism, and was even moreso then, I didn't object to anything I had learned about in the same way. I didn't have to make excuses to myself about parts of the theology the same way. Idk, it just felt right to fall in with the Lutheran position on things than it did for the Reformed side. I hold no animosity to Presbyterianism, and sometimes I can tell I still hold to a Reformed-lite perspective on things (I really do appreciate what Calvin was trying to do with the sovereignty of God, and I also like how his theological system forces grace to the center of it, even if I think many of the consequences of that system are flawed).
This was a lot longer than I thought it was going to be, all basically just to say: when it's right, you know it. It might take a bit of time, but if it fits, it fits.
It also comes down to what you value, tooāmy sister and mom have become Episcopalian. My sister enjoys the internal diversity of the Anglican tradition; but as much as I appreciate that too, I more value living in a tradition united by a shared creed (the Augsburg Confession and the Book of Concord, and more generally that the heart of the gospel is "justification by grace through faith"). As much as I like Episcopalians, that's why I don't call myself one or look for an Episcopalian congregation over a Lutheran one when the need arises. They're kind of my backup haha
I hope that all makes sense. I wish you the best of luck, anon! I pray the Spirit leads you to the place you can come to the Father through the Son the easiest. Listenāto yourself, to the places you visit, and most of all, to the Spirit, and you'll be led home.
ā[God] has written the promise of the resurrection not in books alone, but in every leaf in springtime.ā
Martin Luther
SCHISM??
in this day and age?
okay SO four bishops have been ordained without approval of the pope in the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX)(also sometimes known as Lefebrvistes after SSPX's founder Marcel Lefebvre)
How does the catholic church usually ordain a bishop?
You need at least three bishops to do the ordaining AND you need to have approval of the pope.
This Society is conservative and rejects more modern reforms of the church, like holding Mass in other languages than Latin (which was implemented in the 60s and 70s). The Society is originally from Switzerland but now has a large following in the US. The bishops who were ordained consisted of 2 American, 1 Swiss and 1 French bishop.
Correction: 1 American and 2 French! Thanks @atlasblue85 (source: https://share.google/EfZ4gi7JOAA2KzoLy (Vatican News))
The pope never approved those bishops to be ordained and warned the Society that ordaining them anyway would be a 'schismic act'
The last time the Society ordained bishops was in 1988, they were immediately excommunicated by the church, but this was rectified two decades later in hopes of repairing the relationships with the Society.
It is expected that these bishops will also be excommunicated, since going against the Pope's wishes is obviously a big deal.
Fun things (FUN I SAY) the Society insists on
Not recognising freedom of religion
Making priests face the altar and not the people like they did in medieval times when they're doing the mass
Mass in Latin only
Married women generally do not work
one of the former bishops (who got expulsed for being a Holocaust denier) said that women wearing trousers was 'an assault on their womanhood and a revolt against the prder willed by God'
Sources:
BBC news article
Wikipedia of the Society
Something is bothering me about the application of "no true Scotsman" to saying something isn't Christian. This is true only up to a point. Because at a certain point, there is a boundary where someone isn't a Scotsman. I'm not a Scotsman, for instance. I could say that I'm Scottish, because I have ancestors who come from Scotland. But you can't compel Scottish people to accept me as Scottish.
Similarly, there is a boundary around what's actually Christian. The definition of Christian isn't actually "everyone who says they are." And it's not everyone who reveres or venerates Christ. Muslims and Manichaeans revere Jesus but aren't Christian. Not everyone accepts non-Nicene Christianity as Christianity. And movements can be destroyed by allowing in everyone who says "I'm a _____" without pushing back. Look at the watering down of feminism. "It's feminist to conform to the status quo, actually," was a devastating boundary shift.
So here we come to a charge that I must accept everyone who says they are a Christian as part of my faith. And it's difficult to create a satisfying response because we have two things that are true:
1. People bearing the name "Christian" are causing significant, real harm in our name and it doesn't do any good and it doesn't repair any harm to tell our neighbors "well, ACTUALLY that was a FAKE Christian and I'm different and better š"
2. Some of these beliefs aren't Christian. These are beliefs that cut you off from the body of Christ. White nationalism ISN'T Christian. Jesus crossed boundaries of nation and ethnicity all the time. And this is beyond being a church of wheat and tares. There is a swath of Christianity right now that has set up an idol in the form of a man they call Jesus, but they are not in any way worshipping the God revealed in scripture. I can't accept that as Christianity. Christian nationalism is idol worship.
I think it mainly comes down to we have a secular facing responsibility and a church facing responsibility. It's the difference between I wouldn't tell anyone recounting how they suffered at Christian misbehavior "that wasn't a real Christianā¢ļø" but I would tell (and have told) other Christians "that belief is not Christian, it's not scriptural, repent and return to the true faith."
We're not talking about "no TRUE Christian would say cuss word/take the Lord's name in vain." Yes, TRUE Christians would do and have done and will do horrible things and we can't absolve ourselves through distance. But we are also talking about a deep theological sickness in our body. We have the right to fight off that sickness. We have the obligation to fight it off before it kills us.
Mainline Protestants for a really long time have tried the strategy of "just BE a better Christian" while these conservative churches actively prey on our membership and guess what, it's not working. We need to SPEAK BACK to these people. And "this isn't Christian" is not a tool I'm ready to dump from my toolbox.
One of my great fears is that I'll eventually leave the faith. Antitheists always talk about how religion is fake, idiotic, and even immoral. Sometimes I wonder if they're right? And some antitheists say religion itself is, some say it's organised religion but I fear being so trapped in a bubble I never know the truth.
Saw your comment and first of all, my policy on tagging is that it's always okay to tag me! I might not always get back very quickly but it's just because of school. At different times, I've also been afraid of leaving the faith. In fact, I did. I came back, and I'm not really actively afraid that I'll leave again, but it's something I carry with me. Here are a few things that help me:
Christianity has always been scandalous. It's easy to forget that, because we live in a time and place where something calling itself Christianity has been the norm for hundreds of years. In his time, Jesus scandalized Jews as the Jewish messiah by rejecting Jewish religious law, by not establishing an independent kingdom, and by dying. His followers offended everyone by claiming that he was divine; the notion that God could become human was offensive to Jews and pagans alike. The commenter on your post who says the Bible states Christians should be enslaved is engaging in an argument against Christianity that goes back to the Roman empire. Crucifixion was the empire's most humiliating execution, illegal to use on Roman citizens and reserved for slaves and conquered peoples. It's hard to overstate how offensive worshipping the victim of a crucifixion was. Today, there are vestiges of these scandals, but it's also scandalous more for being irrational and for the ways it's seen to promote abuse. (And not without reason-- our faith has been misused to justify abuse. I've written before about untangling that misuse. We need to be aware of these abuses and do better, but we don't have to define our faith by them.) We'll never escape charges that we're immoral, that we're stupid, that we're gullible, etc., which is why scripture speaks directly to this. Blessed are you when people revile you for the Gospel. That's not about when people hate Christians for being bigots, it's for when people call us stupid and weak and foolish. It means that you may not find favor with others, but you have found favor with God. My favorite professor is always saying, "We worship a loser, people." The great paradox of our faith is that it is in the greatest humiliation of the ancient world that we see God's ultimate, enduring victory. There are people who will never understand this, and there's nothing we can do about that besides pray.
I'm comfortable with being wrong. When I wasn't in the church, I was still seeking the truth, and that was how faith felt to me. It was this pursuit of knowledge and truth. What I've come to understand since is that true Christianity is about following Christ and trusting God. There are things we can't know, that are not yet given to us to know. There are limits to logic and rational belief and sometimes we rest in mystery. For me, at the end of the day, if none of this is literally true, I don't care. Whatever factually happened two thousand years ago, a group of oppressed people in the Roman empire received a revelation that God is love, that national and ethnic borders don't divide humanity, that God has no enemies, that anyone can be redeemed from sin and suffering, and that the oppressed and defeated peoples of earth are truly free and greater than any empire that has ever existed. A life spent in pursuit of these truths cannot be wasted. If I'm wrong about eternal life, if I go to sleep in death and never awake, I know that I lived my life oriented toward love and there is no greater pursuit in life than love. Whatever caused that revelation is communicated to us through our scriptures and our traditions, and they keep me on this path even when I have no sense of faith.
Prayer. I'm not, like, super good at prayer, but whatever you're afraid of, you should pray about. I rely on a lot of formal prayer, like reading psalms and singing hymns. My favorite hymns for this are "Lead Me, Guide Me" (Lord, just let me always your servant be) and "Abide With Me". Psalms 22, 43, 73, and 109 are some well known psalms for these feelings. They reflect the psalmist's anger and despair and confusion at God's action or lack of action, and the difficulty of remaining in faith in the face of what seems like silence. What's important for our prayer life here is that the psalms show us that we can bring our fears and frustrations before God as charges against God. If God is ruler of the universe, why are things so broken? Why do we suffer? Why does God allow God's followers to do injustice? When will our blessing come, when will God's promises be fulfilled? We can bring these feelings and fears before God and we know that others have before us. The psalmist always returns to trust in God, and that to me is the most important aspect of faith, is not knowing the right things or believing the right doctrines, but always returning to trust that God is good.
This came out longer than I anticipated; these kinds of questions are often the first time I'm articulating something that I've been thinking a lot about. I hope something in here is useful to you! I also think it's okay if you do leave the faith. I left and came back; many people do. I have friends who leave faith and don't believe but still identify as Christian and view their Christianity as informing their morality and worldview and justice-seeking and that's good. People are largely unaware of how embedded Christian ideas are in justice movements and western law and morality in ways that are beneficial. Your faith will change shape over your life and that's normal, even when it's uncomfortable. Questions and doubt are good and healthy in your faith and not failures. When there are no answers, hope is enough.
the āOld Testament Godā construction pisses me off because like. thatās my wife. thatās my girl. Sheās swift in dealing out justice for the innocent and firm in upholding Her laws, She comforts the slave and the exile and the outcast and brings mighty kingdoms to their knees. She challenges great and ancient pantheons to stand before Her and call themselves worthy of being the gods of their chosen lands and she reveals their inability to keep their promises, by fire and flood and plague. She brings life and death at once. If youāre not in love with that part of Her all I can say is āskill issueā.
that moment of both blissful peace and abject horror when you've done all you can do, and the only thing that remains is to pray and let God take it from here
This is just Soldier Poet King by The Oh Hellos
Happy Feast of St. Peter & St. Paul! I'm sure they'd love sharing a day
review from my mom's godmother:
I dont understand how science is perceived as the opposite of religion. Frankly, I never feel closer to God than when I am studying His creations. Learning about the brain, biology, chemistry, evolution, it makes me believe more than anything.