My favorite part of the hbomberguy video is when he said "it's hbombin' time" and hbombed all over iiluminaughtii's, Internet Historian's, and James Somerton's careers
There is no way to perform any kind of healthy masculinity (or that "healthy masculinity is just femininity").
Masculinity cannot exist without harming others.
Then you are also claiming that either:
Transmasculine people* have an inherent evilness to them for their (unchosen) identity.
Transmasculine people are evil for choosing to be transmasc.
Transmasculine people are hurting others by existing as a transmasculine person.
And because you are claiming that transmascs cannot exist without being evil or harming others, then someone will come to the conclusion of either:
Transmasculine people should live with guilt and shame and live their entire lives in penance for being/choosing to be evil.
Transmasculine people should all remain closeted and stay as women or detransition into women.
Kill themselves or be killed.
Every bullet point is an opinion I have seen. All are opinions that I have confidence that I have seen at least one person mean genuinely.
*I have just said transmasculine people for the sake of simplicity and to emphasise that these are transphobic viewpoints. If you feel like this post includes you because you identify with any form of masculinity (or even if you don't identify with it) then this post includes you.
I've been iffy about posting this one, it's not at all like what I would prefer to make. So...obviously this isn't just a trans allegory. I mean I would love to be able to be a nightmarish eldritch creature of flesh and metal, but that's not the main point of these renderings.
I'm tired of insatiable greed dominating the world. I'm tired of being squeezed for more and more while making less and less. I'm tired of not even being able to help everyone I care about, let alone my broader community.
Imagine having an incomprehensible amount of wealth and choosing to increase it further instead of making lives better. I will never understand billionaires or our corporate overlords.
"stop making everything about trans men!!!!" nothing is ever allowed to be about trans men. can't talk about trans men under trans posts, or "women's" issues posts, or even our own separate posts we make to specifically talk about us. we have no representation, our rights are being stripped away and no one wants to acknowledge it, we are being forcibly detransitioned while the world carries on like nothing is wrong. our own community doesn't want to talk about us.
[image id: a screenshot of a Tumblr ask from an anonymous user asking "opinion on trans men???" the op, elvis-official, replies saying "wouldn't hurt them to shut up sometimes." end id]
Image ID by: @/intersexvitrealis
Grows up as a woman being told to “shut up and sit down” all the time. Transition. Is still told to “shut up and sit down”. Get upset that you’re still facing misogyny even from members of your supposed community. Get told you’re transmisogynist, by the person who was being misogynist.
I used to see this image all the time in December but now literally nobody cares. We as a society have forgotten him. All he wanted was to offer us a nice treat and what did we do? We abandoned him. Hell has taken refuge in our hearts and its fires have burned to ash all warmth and love. We should be ashamed.
If by “transandrophobia” you mean the ways transmasculine folks are specifically oppressed for being transmasc, then yes. Erasure, invisibility, lack of reproductive rights even compared to cis women. It’s all real stuff.
I also believe it’s not a counterpart or in opposition to transmisogyny. I believe transfems and non-binary folks can also face transandrophobia (butch trans women, AMAB nbs who lean masculine) the same way transmascs can face transmisogyny (fem transmascs, etc)
I much prefer it over the term “transmisandry”. “Transmisandry” makes it sound like we’re oppressed for being men, which isn’t the case. We’re oppressed for being TRANS men. If you’re assigned female at birth, society doesn’t really like it when you choose to break out of the roles associated with that. (Mother, housewife, feminine, etc) and punishes you accordingly. ( I was sexually assaulted by a male friend for daring to be too masculine). That’s why there’s so much fear mongering around masculinizing hrt, top, and bottom surgery.
That’s not to say I can’t benefit from male privilege. The more I pass, the more respect I received from people around me. I’m taken more seriously. I’m assumed to be more competent than my fem counterparts (you know how many times customers assumed I was the manager?). However, that’s all reliant on me staying stealth. It’s a flimsy sort of privilege. As soon as a coworker calls me “She” or points out I’m trans, that male privilege goes out the window. Not only that, what little privilege you get for being female ALSO goes out the window. You’re a distorted female, a woman that dared to assume a male role, and people really hate that.
I honestly don’t understand why there’s a controversy around this. I think it’s good to have more words that accurately describe the oppression trans people face but I know people are gonna be mad at me. Still, I’d like to hear your opinion
It would be cool if this website actually started recognising when it falls into another blatant TERF movement. Every single queer discourse we’ve had have all been TERF psy-ops infiltrating the community, and some chronically online queer people fall for it every single time without fail.
No, there isn’t a valid discussion to have about whether bisexual lesbians are valid, this conversation was started by TERFs. No, there isn’t a need to question whether asexuals are queer enough for the community, this conversation was started by TERFs. No, lesboys and mspec lesbians are not invading lesbian spaces, this conversation was started by TERFs. No, there isn’t a debate to be had about whether trans men have male privilege, this conversation was started by TERFs.
Discourse will be a lot easier to resolve if the second you find yourself entering a discussion that tries to invalidate a queer identity, question their oppression, or cause infighting in the community you remind yourself that “this was a conversation started by TERFs” and step the fuck away from it.
No, there isn’t going to be a single valid discussion within discourse about queer identities, there is never going to be a queer person that you’re allowed to punch down on, and no one in this community is taking anything away from you. If you find yourself believing that you’ve finally entered a discussion against certain queer people that will help the queer community, I’m sorry to say that you’re actually back in the fucking building again, and you’re sitting at the table with TERFs. I recommend removing yourself as soon as possible before they start turning on you, too.
Before we work through it on a line-by-line basis, it is important to note the key context that OP gives us in the final paragraph: this post is about trans men discussing their experiences with transphobia.
As OP suggests, let's insert the adjective "trans" before "man" where particularly relevant, to make it clearer for everyone involved.
It's also important to note that the first paragraph is intended as satire. OP is not genuinely asking these questions. Now then:
"I think [trans] men aren't talked about enough." Trans men often struggle with invisibility, the way trans women often struggle with hypervisibility. Both of these things fucking suck. Trans men have the right to speak about their oppression.
"[Trans] men should be treated with more respect." Yeah, they should! All trans people should be treated with respect. No person should be invalidated or harassed on the basis of their gender.
"You shouldn't say you hate men." This is true! You really shouldn't say you hate anyone on the basis of their gender, as it generates an us-vs-them mentality and is generally detrimental to forming community. Hating anyone on the basis of their gender is generally shitty and bad for trans people.
"If you kissed a man you'd stop being such a feminist." I'm not sure any trans guy is saying this. If they are, they're being a fucking prat, that's very misogynistic. But again, there isn't some massive trend of trans guys saying this. Who is saying this?
"[Trans] men are victims of your discomfort." Yeah, there's a lot of anti-masculinity sentiment within the queer community and within feminist circles that directly harms trans men (and other people perceived as being too masculine, but I'm a trans guy so I'm speaking from my experience), excludes us from conversations that we should be involved in, and makes us feel unsafe in spaces that are supposed to be safe for us.
"[Trans] men deserve to be accommodated in women's spaces." If your "women's space" is something like a sexual health clinic, a discussion group focused on abortion rights, etc, then yes! Because trans men are actively affected and involved in these things, they deserve a place at the table.
"If you don't center men in your feminism, what's the point?" Again, not a sentiment I've seen expressed by trans guys! What I have seen expressed is the fact that feminism isn't about women > men, it's about fighting for gender equality, which is true, and not the same thing as "centering men". Feminism is about fighting against the patriarchy, not against men as a gender. You should definitely include men in feminism. Some men, especially trans guys, are directly impacted by the stuff you're fighting against.
"Why don't we have a word for [trans] men's issues?" This seems to be a misrepresented reference to trans men coining terms for the specific intersection of oppression they face, and then getting annoyed that people are too focused nitpicking the words we use that they refuse to listen to us talk about the oppression we face.
"Why can't [trans] men use slurs for women?" Again, bad faith satire. Where are you hearing this? Nobody should be calling anyone slurs, that's an asshole move from anyone. I have no clue what the specific reference here is. Do you think trans men shouldn't be able to say bitch, the way women can? The majority of us have been called it plenty. I think we can say it.
"[Trans] men are affected by legislature against women too!" Very good! Yeah, we are! It's called bigoted politicians do not recognise us as the men we are but rather as broken or defective girls. Fun fact: some men have a uterus! And can get pregnant! And deserve access to abortions!
"Have you considered some men are actually not white?" I mean... have you? Like I'm a white guy, so it's not my place to speak on that, but it seems like a pretty valid question! Intersectionality is pretty important! [Edit: comments are doing a way better job of breaking this one down than I did, go check em out!]
"People being mean to [trans] men online is the worst form of oppression." Who is saying this?
"Why can't I draw only men when people can draw only women?" Anyone is free to draw exclusively men, or exclusively women, or exclusively fucking polar bears. Like sure, it's limiting your options and it's good to practise different bodies but art is a hobby, do what makes you happy. Some trans guys find having girl OCs dysphoric. That's fine. They don't have to. It's not misogynistic to draw men.
"Why isn't there enough yaoi?" Asking the big questions here.
And now we get to the big finale:
"These are obviously ridiculous statements on their face when asked by cis men, but if it's a trans men suddenly it becomes a progressive statement?"
And to that, all I have to say is this: have you heard of a little something called motherfucking nuance?
Trans men are men. Trans men are also trans. It's really not that fucking hard to wrap your head around.
"I think trans men should be able to talk about their issues, I just don't think they should use the word--"
Shut up.
List them.
List the issues you think trans men "should be able to" talk about.
Because we do. We do talk about those issues and we don't need your permission to do so. I don't care if YOU think I "should be able" to talk about my issues, and I don't care if I "should" use words that make YOU more comfortable. They are MY issues and you will get on MY LEVEL if you care about them at all.
The question is, do you know what our issues are? Can you name them? Do you take them seriously? Do you care about our pain or are you flippantly acknowledging that we "should be able" to talk about it so you can bulldoze through us to make your main point, which is that you don't think we've come up with a good enough word by YOUR standards?
What's more important to you? The ways we are oppressed or the ways we choose to describe that oppression?
Do you care about trans people or semantics more? Do you understand *why* we use certain words, or are you just mad that our understanding of our own oppression doesn't fit neatly into the boxes of ciscentric feminism? Do you think rejecting a ciscentric feminist framework as the basis of transfeminism and demanding my voice as a marginalized man be heard is the same as being a right-wing misogynist? Have you considered your biases against men as a point of weakness in your theory or a sign of bioessentialist and/or gender essentialist beliefs? Do you think feminism is just an academic term for "men vs women"?
Can you define erasure? Can you give me examples of how trans men are erased from history and even present day transfeminism? Do you know where the term "marginalized" came from? Do you know what it means to be placed "in the margins" and how that looks for trans men specifically, even within our own communities?
Do you have a better word? And, if you do, do you use it to talk about our issues specifically? Or do you only care about shutting down our conversations and ignoring us until we play by YOUR rules?
Anyway, trans men owe you nothing if you treat us with derision, coldness, or act like we're stupid for seeing our issues from our own perspectives. Either care about us, or fuck off. We simply do not have time to waste on people who will deny us the basic dignity to define our own experiences.
Why is it literally impossible to talk about trans men in romantic or relationship contexts without people making mpreg jokes.
Friend was talking about a ship. I said “omggg they’re so t4t to meeee” and her immediate reply was “omg yes she got him pregnant lmao”
Why? Why the fuck is that your first thought? There was nothing sexual about the conversation before, why is it that when transgenderness is brought into the conversation suddenly it’s who’s putting their dick in who? And why is the notion of a trans man carrying a baby so funny to you??
Pisses me off so deeply. A visibly pregnant trans man was shot and killed in USAmerica while late in his third term, teenage and young trans men are essentially sweeped off the streets then trafficked and raped in many third-world countries, intersex people raised male will get their uteri surgically removed out of societal disgust, and you’re still treating the notion of trans men getting pregnant like it’s some ridiculous, amusing concept, of the likes of slipping on a comically misplaced banana peel.
It’s everyone. Any cis person or trans non-masc… hell, even a kid trans boy who doesn’t know any better will joke about it until he’s hit with a dose of reality and realise how horrible it is. Genuinely makes me sick how many people both in and out of the genderqueer community will just joke about topics like that and treat them so lightly.
turnnoffyourmind
pixelskylines
germansingergirl
blakekathryn
dailybridgerton
areudirty
