what do you contribute to the discourse?

Discourse side blog. I've been on this hell site for 6 years. 24 y/o lesbian.

[colorisbyshe]

I don’t think ace people trying to construct/identify ace culture understand why gay culture… is the way it is?

Like, gay fashion stems from our breaking/challenging of gender norms and as a way to like… recognize one of our own. Which is less about this:

And more about recognizing people who aren’t… inherent violent threats to us. Like, “gaydar” or being able to tell who is/isn’t “one of us” isn’t like a fun “Oh, I’m glad there’s something like me” in the sense of spotting someone with a fandom shirt you like, it’s a matter of going, ”Oh, this person won’t murder if me I mention my gender or sexuality.” Or, “Oh, she’s gay like me… maybe I can hit on her without fearing violence.”

We have gay bars because we literally could not safely go to other bars and be ourselves without facing arrest, being kicked out, being murdered. Gay music come from unique experiences and being unable to relate to straight music.

Our LGBT identities are not significant because we created the gap between gay and straight people, cis and trans people. Our LGBT identities are significant because straight and cis people said they mattered, barred us from their culture, and then we had to build from the ground up. Closed off from mainstream society, we made our own music and fashion and spaces and festivals and clubs and language based off our own experiences, redefined norms, and understanding of the world.

Aces aren’t closed off from anything. There is no communal experience. There are no revelations about the world shared between a cishet man who does not romantically love his sexual partners and a gay trans man who is sex repulsed. 

Ace culture being “IDK, the color purple, hats, and Charlie Weasley” shows how this isn’t functional or necessary. It’s a fandom. And I know that gets a lot of of backlash but like… if your attempts at creating a community are tumblr tags and the focus of your community is headcanons… well… if the shoe fits.

[colorisbyshe]

#i don’t agree with the last paragraph ace ppl definetly need & deserve a community of there own seperate from a sex crazed society#like i’m not even ace but seeing 10 posts in a row abt sex makes me feel bad & abnormal & less than for not having it#but the rest Ya cishet aces rlly don’t understand the importance of this community and what we do#and theyre always trying to trivialize it 

I’m rly not trying to call you out but I think you highlight an important point without realizing–even you, a non-ace, is uncomfortable with this “sex crazed society.” That’s extremely common!

No one is MEANT to be comfortable with society’s obsession with sex. This obsession with sex is a product of things like the patriarchy and white supremacy and capitalism. It’s meant to make you feel insecure and buy products to make yourself appealing. It’s meant to goad people into heterosexual couplings to further the white race. It’s a way to objectify women into making them think their purpose is to serve men.

So, while I do think aces do deserve their own community (if they wanna put in their own labor to create/maintain it) to talk about their specific feelings living in rape culture… I think we also need to remember that… we all live and are hurt by that same rape culture. This is why I have often talked about the ace community using feminist spaces/ideals/broader programs as a starting point because these spaces are already addressing how the sexualization of society is a tool of oppression–of women, of people of color, of gay and trans people, of children even. It’s eugenics and an attack on people with disabilities. It’s so much more than something that can be pared down to “aphobic, not meant for aces.”

Sure, let aces have spaces to talk about their own perspective on this. But the refusal to admit that this is a larger issue that goes beyond them… is what’s keeping them from really developing any meaningful culture or commentary. A lot of what aces do reaffirms both “aphobic stereotypes” about aces not having sex or being infantile because they might not want/have sex and it also recreates rape culture–saying aces are more likely to be raped because OF COURSE people who experience sexual attraction are asking for it and consent to any/all sex. Or saying kids are sexual beings. ANd all this other stuff.

This isn’t an attack on your tags, just some pondering inspired by it. So please don’t take this personally. But I do think you brought up a good point, perhaps without meaning to, on how the lack of connections aces make of their own discrimination and discomfort with capitalism/oppression fueled “sex obsessions” to the larger systems of oppression is maybe why ace culture is sort of doomed to fail in a lot of ways.

Trans and gay culture stemmed from connecting our experiences to the world’s understanding of gender and subverting all sorts of cultural norms. We see a blanket woven of systems of oppression and we pull out the threads to make our own fabric–ours made to comfort and not smother. Whereas a lot of ace culture–laughing about not having sex, headcanons, ‘hats and the color purple’ are just… kinda focused on a very singular experience (sexual norms on tumblr, a fandom space) and lack that meaningful touch.

Anyways, sorry for this essay. I know you really didn’t ask for this with your tags. You don’t have to respond. You just kinda triggered a thought process that was on the tip of my brain tongue. Sorry.

[fuckyeahasexual]

So I see you guys using the term a-spec a lot to describe someone on the asexual spectrum and I understand why it seems like the right term to use, but a-spec has meant autistic spectrum for a long time and using it to mean asexual spectrum doesn't seem like a good and non-confusing thing. Could you consider saying "under the ace umbrella" or "gray-a" instead?

Nope! I’m super fucking done with this! I’ve been actively involved in both ace and autistic communities for a decade [or more] and “a-spec” has never referred to autistic people! Literally not ever, until exclusionists decided that autistic people made convenient pawns in their ongoing crusade against any and all ace and aro language. I was there when “a-spec” was coined to refer to ace and aro-spectrum people, it was coined by my colleagues on a blog I helped run. I was specifically consulted, among many others, AS AN AUTISTIC ACE, to ensure that the term wasn’t infringing on autistic language.It wasn’t then, and it isn’t now, and it never will be, and as far as I’m concerned this will be the last time this topic is addressed because I am absolutely not consenting to continue having one of my identities leveraged as a weapon against another.-Dew

[disco-discourse]

look, you and your friends are not every autistic person and you don’t know what terms are prevalent in other settings! Here is evidence from 2008 [tw ableist word for people with physical disabilities] where a forum poster used “a-spec” to refer to autistic spectrum and all the commenters knew what they were talking about.

[colorisbyshe]

A Complete Guide to How the Ace Community has lied about the Pathologization of Asexuality and Fearmongered Young Aces into thinking Anti-Ace Conversion Therapy is a Thing

So, after being in discourse hell for a long time and I’ve seen a bunch of stories (which I 100% believe and think are valid) where people have been afraid of being forced into treatment for their asexuality or have even been told to seek said treatment. And those stories are then used to terrify young ace people into thinking that treatment is a real threat. But, as far as I’ve seen, not a single one of those stories have ended with actual coerced treatment.

And that is because… there are no institutions that coercively treat asexuality. In fact, there are no institutions that treat asexuality, period.

Asexuality is not and has never been in the DSM. There is no recommended treatment for asexuality. And there is not a single institution that advertises that it will treat adults to “fix” their asexuality, let alone literal minors.

On the flip side, that simply isn’t true for LGBT conversion therapy. Stories don’t end with “I was afraid this would happen,” more often than not if someone is talking about their experience with conversion therapy… it actually happened. It was a fear made real.

LGBT Conversion Therapy is legal FOR MINORS in 45 states. It is legal for adults in every state. Institutions like NARTH (now ATSCI) brag about successful pray away the gay programs.

Asexual Conversion Therapy is not a thing. Conversations that imply it is real:

Do not understand what conversion therapy actually entails

Confuse HSDD (Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder) treatment with conversion therapy

Confuse the definition/symptoms of these illnesses with asexuality

Harm survivors/actually ill people by implying seeking treatment for  HSDD is anti-ace and a product of internalized aphobia when HSDD does not deal with asexuality at all

Aces are spreading these stories to convince people that aphobic oppression is real and it has another side effect: it ends up scaring actually ace people and creates a toxic environment where young people feel unsafe and can easily be manipulated. This is dangerous for people who are trying to figure out their identity and feel secure in it. You are hurting ace people by implying your irrational fear of treatment is based in a lived reality.

So, below the cut, I am going to:

Clarify what conversion therapy actually entails (trigger warning for medical abuse, obvs)

Compare that to the treatments of HSDD

Clarify what HSDD actually is

Talk about the timeline of asexuality becoming more known in the mental health field and how quickly the APA accommodated the ace community’s concerns

WITH! all my sources cited

so that instead of spreading stories where ace people (who have genuinely hurt by their parents and maybe do not know this fear of treatment is unfounded) only ever FEARED the POSSIBILITY of conversion therapy, people can understand there is no coherent reason to insist there is systemic medical abuse against aces. Spread this knowledge instead.

TL;DR:

To sum it up (you don’t really need to read below the cut, it’s just clarifying information): no one is lying when they say their parents maybe forced them into therapy or even to see a doctor for their asexuality. That may even qualify as abuse in and of itself in some contexts. But there is no medical treatment for asexuality and especially no forced treatment for asexuality in minors. Convincing young people it’s a real threat is harmful and doesn’t prove ace oppression anyways. It hurts aces and it hurts actual survivors of conversion therapy and it hurts people with certain conditions who need to be diagnosed so they can have treatment.

Anyways,

Keep reading

[smitethestate]

So a group in Alaska is trying to pass a bill banning police from having sexual contact with sex workers and it stalled because Alaskan cops, who initially said they would not stand against the bill, are now fighting it because they say they need to be able to have sexual contact with sex trafficking victims in order to “rescue” them.

TW: Whorephobic language.

It all comes down to touching, he said: Prostitutes have used a technique known as “cop checking” to immediately identify officers and shut down an investigation.

“(In an undercover investigation) they ask one simple question: ‘Touch my breast.’ OK, I’m out of the car. Done. And the case is over,” said Case, offering a hypothetical example of what he thinks might happen if the law passed. “If we make that act (of touching) a misdemeanor we have absolutely no way of getting involved in that type of arrest.”

Wow so sex workers have figured out a way to protect themselves from being arrested by cops who have proven themselves to be intensely whorephobic and abusive. How dare they. [/sarcasm]

Anyway, an organization in Alaska that’s trying to pass this bill is trying to raise $10,000 so that they can try to get it through again and better protect full service sex workers from cops. If you can spare a few dollars, this is a great cause for an oppressed group of people who are so often overlooked.

[cs-inactive1-deactivated2020060]

those poor poor rapist cops, oh no

[disco-discourse]

THIS is why “SWERF” ideology is a threat: some “feminists” take their (valid) concerns about sex trafficking to the point where they collude with the patriarchal state to violate women in a “rescue” attempt. this is violence against women. stop using “SWERF” to mean “doesn’t think having sex with someone you’re not attracted to is healthy” or “made fun of my shady tentacle fic”. it is incredibly trivializing!

[metapianycist]

rough outline of asexual community development on tumblr, or: how asexual discourse on tumblr got this way

[metapianycist]

@lovethatdiscourse in response to your criticisms, i edited the original post in the following ways:

added information that the people who “started it” in 2011 were galesofnovember (a terf, the same terf who tried to smear Laura Jane Grace when she came out as a trans woman) and her circle of friends/sympathizers, many of whom were straight women

added information about meravie, the non-sga anti-sj who said the same things

added information that sga aces were the primary targets of people who argued that asexual identity was inherently homophobic. sga aces were literally told that being sga and asexual, or being sga and sex-averse, was inherently homophobic.

added information that homophobia from cis het aces isn’t lateral violence, it’s punching down

so. none of my post was about cis het aces. also. regardless of other identity alignments…it is possible for anyone to try to invalidate any asexual person’s asexual identity. by invalidation i did not mean “calling het aces straight.” i meant that galesofnovember et al were literally telling asexual people (especially sga asexual people) “you’re not asexual, that’s normal sexuality.”

[allosexisterfs]

… And this is the source for the entire ace discourse being started by a terf. Which is why anti-ace rhetoric is absolutely riddled with terf rhetoric and tactics even when it’s being deployed by trans people and cis allies with “TERFs fuck off” in their abouts. Including the bog-standard TERF tactic of painting the other side as full of sexual predators.

[disco-discourse]

So this is the source on galesofnovember supposedly being a TERF? jfc

Here’s a copy of the original post

so what did gales actually do? When Laura Grace came out, she repeated rumors she had heard during her time in the punk scene that Grace had raped women in the past. maybe also deadnamed her (OP was deleted so unsure). With regards to the rumors, the idea that bringing them up proves transmisogyny rests on either the claim that (a) gales made them up and explicitly lied about rape in order to smear Grace or (b) it’s inherently wrong to bring up past accusations against a trans woman who has come out. I don’t think either of these is true. In a transmisogynistic society, you could argue that bringing up unverified accusations on a public blog is reckless, definitely. But the frustration she was feeling at seeing people celebrate Grace is also understandable.

People have claimed that galesofnovember was “proven false” but in the absence of specific accusations I doubt that that’s possible. And I do think it’s dangerous to assert that lack of evidence for a claim is evidence against it.

also the idea that the discourse was started by “galesofnovember, her supporters, and straight women” is so off-base. Gales was there from the beginning, but so were many, many LGBT people and I can’t even remember a straight woman besides maybe LTO? In particular, there were trans women exclusionists from the beginning, including graftversushost a.k.a. saltmarshhag.

@metapianycist I respect your recent contributions to the discourse but please stop trying to rewrite history.

[discoursedumpster]

this one goes into much more detail about why this rumor about Laura Jane Grace has been debunked. The short version is that it is NOT a rumor she or anyone else heard in the fandom, it is a rumor that has never appeared anywhere online before galesofnovember’s post about it. Which nobody outside of tumblr has ever heard of or posted about. And which there are zero details or accusations about, anywhere. It’s a rumor THAT there is a rumor, basically. When there are actual rumors about these things, they are findable. There are always details somewhere, people saying that they heard from their friend that at this one concert such-and-such happened. Even when people don’t want to come forward with accusations. This one is blatantly just something this blogger made up out of whole cloth, with zero effort. I’m looking through her blog more now, and it seems like she’s a radfem but not a TERF. However, you don’t have to be a TERF to unconsciously buy into, and support, transmisogynist stereotypes about trans women; I’ve seen plenty of transmisogyny-exempt trans people do it too.

[disco-discourse]

I’ve seen that post, but it doesn’t support your conclusions. Yes, there is no online evidence supporting gales’ claim. But to jump from that to “she obviously completely lied/invented it” is not logical. As someone who does social media research, there are plenty of ways for online footprints to be invisible (if people even discussed it on the internet in the first place, which many people don’t, especially when you consider that Against Me! has been a band since 1997 and there really wasn’t a whole lot of internet around in their early years). for example, discussing the matter without names attached, or on a private/locked forum, or in the comments of a blog that has since been deleted. If people want to discuss galesofnovember and whatever transmisogynistic beliefs she may hold that’s fine, but there is no evidence that she lied about this so people should stop saying there is.

[teasources]

fandoms act like pedophiles don’t watch tv, read books, or use the internet. “fiction vs reality” all you want but predators consume content that aligns with their interests. real, actual predators ship adults with minors, possess child porn of both real kids and fictional ones, read stories that show csa in a positive light, etc.

like I can see a predator watching how y'all justify minor / adult ships and feeling validated. they don’t just enact violence outside of the internet. they are real people who consume media just like you and me. those of you who ship children with adults share a space with actual predators

it’s also wild to me that y'all don’t think a pedophile could ever be an artist or writer. I guarantee you they are content creators you enjoy on social media. you’re giving them a space to safely express their interests and you validate their inclination to hurt real children when you promote “hebephilia” as healthy. every time you say “the technical definition of pedophilia is 13 years old and younger”, some adult freak feels better about being attracted to a 14 year old. saved by the bell huh!

you’re harboring actual predators, making them feel great about themselves, giving them a platform in fandom & the ability to harass minors into silence with that platform. it isn’t just desensitizing kids, it’s also desensitizing predators

just like white people felt justified in thinking of black people as all sorts of stereotypes (monkeys, mammies, pickanninies, unintelligent, biologically predisposed to being enslaved, etc) thanks to racist cartoons, justifying pedophilia in fiction is a gateway to them excusing harmful behavior in real life and actually doing it. if that should bother you

[teasources]

76% of people arrested for child porn (cp) which legally includes simulated cp (that’s digitally drawn art,or CGI), have molested actual children. in the late 20th century cp had almost been completely wiped out, but the creation of the internet caused a resurgence and now it’s uncontrollable. but people think enjoying these things in internet fandom are unrelated phenomenon

y'all really surround yourself with people who spend hours drawing cp, writing about it, making headcanons for it, creating communities & organizing celebration weeks for it, discussing it on social media and skype, but then you’re surprised when people who spend their days indulging in the fantasy of adults fucking children… are outed as adults who fuck children. like

[whipsticka-deactivated20170406]

(76% of people arrested for child porn have molested children)   (in the late 20th century cp had almost been completely wiped out, but the creation of the internet caused a resurgence)

[teasources]

thanks for the sources! I didn’t have enough spoons to look it up

[maskseller]

there are some really vile people trying to interact with this post, claiming that “fiction and reality are two different things.” i’d like to add a source that suggests that the brain is more susceptible to thoughts vs. actions than we think it is, and i hope OP finds it as important as i do.

this is an article about Alvaro Pascual-Leone’s neurology study at Harvard Medical. it’s actually almost a decade old at this point. in this study, he had a group play a simple piano exercise for one week, and he had another group only imagine playing the piano exercise for one week. in group one - the piano-practicing group - a new network of neurons blossomed in the brain to accompany the repetitive motion practiced on the piano. in the group that only imagined playing, the same thing happened. 

the brain can and does form new neural connections when you only imagine something, even if you take no action. it doesn’t mean that everyone who’s ever had a bad thought is now a criminal, but this is a legitimate study that suggests that a concentrated, sustained effort – like a hobby, or writing, or shipping – results in real, measurable structural changes in your brain. you shouldn’t even need a study like this to prove “you resemble what you surround yourself with,” but here it is.

as a survivor of CSA, i am 100% not okay with anyone engaging with this topic in their leisure time*, and i think that “shipping” is the lamest excuse i’ve ever fucking heard to engage in real, damaging behavior. an abuse survivor who ships “because they’re traumatized” doesn’t get a pass, nor should they consume or create this content. i hate it when this gets brought up because it’s victim-blaming, using severely mentally ill people you don’t even care about as props, and describes a tragic method by which a victim grows into a perpetrator.

nobody’s fucking shippy feels or orgasm is above scrutiny and condemnation, nor are these things above the well-being of other people.

-

*telling people to knock it off is not leisure time, trust me. i’m speaking about people who enjoy their interactions around child abuse.

[closet-keys]

transphobes (including, but not limited to terfs) calling trans women “males” and trying to talk about “biological sex” and make their hate sound somehow scientific and unbiased is the exact same shit framing as straights calling gay people “homosexuals” and trying to talk about how we’re “unnatural” or talk about what “went wrong” in our development and shit, and I am so tired of hateful assholes trying to wield a vague notion of “science” against marginalized people to justify their own prejudices

just say you hate lgbt people and go– you’re not any less of a prick than people who frame their homophobia & transphobia in religion and sin, you’re literally just picking a different lens to cast the same bigoted beliefs through, and it’s so fucking annoying 

[disco-discourse]

this was a damn good post

[metapianycist]

rough outline of asexual community development on tumblr, or: how asexual discourse on tumblr got this way

[metapianycist]

@lovethatdiscourse in response to your criticisms, i edited the original post in the following ways:

added information that the people who “started it” in 2011 were galesofnovember (a terf, the same terf who tried to smear Laura Jane Grace when she came out as a trans woman) and her circle of friends/sympathizers, many of whom were straight women

added information about meravie, the non-sga anti-sj who said the same things

added information that sga aces were the primary targets of people who argued that asexual identity was inherently homophobic. sga aces were literally told that being sga and asexual, or being sga and sex-averse, was inherently homophobic.

added information that homophobia from cis het aces isn’t lateral violence, it’s punching down

so. none of my post was about cis het aces. also. regardless of other identity alignments…it is possible for anyone to try to invalidate any asexual person’s asexual identity. by invalidation i did not mean “calling het aces straight.” i meant that galesofnovember et al were literally telling asexual people (especially sga asexual people) “you’re not asexual, that’s normal sexuality.”

[allosexisterfs]

… And this is the source for the entire ace discourse being started by a terf. Which is why anti-ace rhetoric is absolutely riddled with terf rhetoric and tactics even when it’s being deployed by trans people and cis allies with “TERFs fuck off” in their abouts. Including the bog-standard TERF tactic of painting the other side as full of sexual predators.

[disco-discourse]

So this is the source on galesofnovember supposedly being a TERF? jfc

Here’s a copy of the original post

so what did gales actually do? When Laura Grace came out, she repeated rumors she had heard during her time in the punk scene that Grace had raped women in the past. maybe also deadnamed her (OP was deleted so unsure). With regards to the rumors, the idea that bringing them up proves transmisogyny rests on either the claim that (a) gales made them up and explicitly lied about rape in order to smear Grace or (b) it’s inherently wrong to bring up past accusations against a trans woman who has come out. I don’t think either of these is true. In a transmisogynistic society, you could argue that bringing up unverified accusations on a public blog is reckless, definitely. But the frustration she was feeling at seeing people celebrate Grace is also understandable.

People have claimed that galesofnovember was “proven false” but in the absence of specific accusations I doubt that that’s possible. And I do think it’s dangerous to assert that lack of evidence for a claim is evidence against it.

also the idea that the discourse was started by “galesofnovember, her supporters, and straight women” is so off-base. Gales was there from the beginning, but so were many, many LGBT people and I can’t even remember a straight woman besides maybe LTO? In particular, there were trans women exclusionists from the beginning, including graftversushost a.k.a. saltmarshhag.

@metapianycist I respect your recent contributions to the discourse but please stop trying to rewrite history.

[throwaway33333]

rape tw//

Here’s courteousmingler condemning people (specifically leftbians’ victims)  for not publicly disclosing their own abuse. (although of course many eventually did, once they realized the things that were said to them were sexual and that her manipulation of them was wrong but apparently not soon enough for Carmen) She thinks that if you are sexually abused but don’t publicly disclose then you’re at fault if your abuser also abuses a minor, especially if your abuser is in a position of power.

(here’s that link http://courteousmingler.tumblr.com/post/160343843740/she-sexually-abused-many-of-the-adults-who )

@makingstuffup

@pissedpoz

[ace-asks]

I don't really have anyone to talk to about this, so I'm just going to ask here. I'm a 13 year old girl, and I'm questioning my sexuality. I can't really tell if I'm ace or aro. I mean, I think I am, but I don't know. I guess I've had a few crushes that could be described as a squish. I don't even know whether I like girls or boys. I mean, I don't really like anyone other than in a platonic way. I don't know if I'm REALLY ace/aro or if I just haven't found the right person yet.... Please answer

If you’re 13 and haven’t yet had a proper crush, it’s pretty likely that you’re at least somewhere on the aromantic spectrum. It’s ok if you’re not sure if you’re ace and/or aro, but if that describes your experiences you should identify how you feel currently. Any gay person could wait around for years wondering if they’re not actually gay, but bisexual and just haven’t found the right person yet. It doesn’t make much sense to try to identify according to how you expect to feel in the future, because sexuality is fluid anyway and there’s no guarantee you’ll always feel exactly the same.

[disco-discourse]

It can be pretty difficult to fully distinguish the difference between romantic and platonic feelings and one’s capability for them, especially when you’re younger. although romantic feelings are definitely portrayed as the norm, I don’t think your experience is necessarily atypical. sometimes it can be frustrating not to know how to label yourself, but that’s also okay. If people ask, you can always say “I’m not sure yet” or “I’m not really interested in boys/girls, I am more interested in [snacks/Netflix/soccer/etc.]”

[disco-discourse]

 you know, for people who claim to oppose gender roles, terfs sure like to use “men in dresses” as an insult

[disco-discourse]

@ all the TERFs reblogging this like “we don’t mean it as an insult! It’s you stupid genderists who interpret it that way!”

you can keep lying to yourself but don’t bother trying to lie to me when you freaks explicitly use that phrase because it’s painful to trans women and echoes the hatred they face from patriarchal society that hates trans people AND gender nonconformity

[courteousmingler]

acephobes to asexuals: anyone who calls our movement a rape apologist movement hates survivors.

acephobes to asexuals: also we and we alone decide whether you consent to sex or not. (x)

[justonepurpose]

You know what’s really upsetting is that some of the points made in that post are actually pretty okay, and then you put it in the context that sleepdontvisit hates aspecs and it’s like “Ah.”

Also it’s swerfy as fuck. 

[courteousmingler]

denying anyone with a particular sexuality the ability to consent is to decree that you have power over their sexuality, that you are the authority as to whether they consent or not.

and even when couched in benevolent language and feigned concern, it’s still an insidious facet of rape culture being utilized by exclusionists.

and yeah, sex workers are regularly told by SWERFs that they can’t consent to sex with their clients for a variety of reasons, one of which being the lack of sexual attraction they have toward their clients.

 SWERFs rob sex workers of sexual agency and the ability to consent by insisting that sexual attraction is required to consent. it’s an example of rape culture when SWERFs do it to sex workers, and it remains such when acephobes do it to asexuals.

[untitled41636]

Sleep don’t visit LITERALLY SPEAR HEADED A MOVEMENT NOT SIX MONTHS AGO to call a friend of mine a “mutual rapist” for consenting to sex with their hypersexual partner while being a-spec. Because somehow that meant that both of them were raping each other any time they had sex, and abusing each other any time they didn’t.

Said friend spent two entire weeks spoon feeding sdv the fact that the only people who decide whether sex is consensual are the people having the sex. Everyone else needs to back the fuck off and let the people having the sex set their own boundaries.

This led directly to creating callouts for my friend as a domestic abuser and rapist.

For consenting to sex with a long term partner.

I can’t believe that particular shit hole is back up this particular river and will being allowed to give voice.

Except I can, because exclusion types sure do love calling anyone who rightfully disagrees with them a sex criminal.

Puritanical SWERF assholes.

[colorisbyshe]

I’ve literally never interacted with you before. NEVER use the phrase “mutual rapist” in my life before. These conversations literally never took place.

Five months ago was November/EARLY december and I wasn’t even active in the discourse at that point, just casually reblogging posts here or there. You can go into my archive and see that clearly.

How fucking dare you spread lies about this? I’m a fucking survivor you piece of shit. To claim this without providing evidence, to fucking throw my name out there like this is DISGUSTING and you should be ashamed.

[gothhabiba]

it’s crucial to realise that abuse cannot be reduced to a list of contextless behaviours. abusive actions are abusive, not because of their inherent nature, but because of the place that they take in a larger pattern of control or intimidation. if you try to paint a picture of what an abuser acts like without reference to these larger patterns, you’re inevitably going to describe a lot of the ways in which people who are being abused act–and many abusers know how to take advantage of that.

for example, an abuser may accuse their victim of witholding sex, saying that their victim is strategically denying them sexual access in order to control them. this falls into a larger pattern of the abuser feeling a sense of ownership towards their partner, feeling entitled to sexual access, and resenting their partner for exercising agency over their own body (& overwhelmingly, cases such as this involve a male abuser and a female victim). they may become angry when their partner understandably doesn’t want to have sex with them after they’ve been abusive towards them in other ways.

however, it’s also true that many abusers do strategically use sex as a control tactic, using their victim’s need for intimacy against them and refusing sex specifically as a form of punishment for other perceived slights. and the mere fact that one person is refusing sex with another person cannot tell you which of these, if either, is occurring.

similarly, abusers often use physical intimidation tactics such as stomping about, slamming doors, and breaking objects in order to create fear in their victims (and the expectation that perhaps they’re going to be hurt, whether or not the abuser has been physically violent before), or to punish them for stepping out of line. they’ll later claim that they just “lost it.”

but it’s wholly possible for victims of abuse to slam doors or to break objects out of understandable frustration with the terror to which they’re being subjected. without a reference to the overall dynamics of power in the relationship–whether or not the door was slammed in order to create fear, whether or not the person who broke an object also uses other tactics of manipulation and intimidation, and often whose objects were broken (abusers may claim that they “lose control” of themselves, but they conveniently seem to destroy only things that belong to their partners)–you can’t say that breaking an object = abuse.

& you have to keep in mind the fact that many abusers keep their victims on the defensive by accusing them of using their own manipulative tactics. someone (likely a man) who controls their partner through checking out other people & engaging in affairs may call their partner crazy or jealous or controlling for trying to put a stop to the behaviour–all the while being highly jealous and controlling of their victim, strategically fabricating suspicions about their infidelity in order to take the focus off of their (the abuser’s) behaviour.

or perhaps someone really is jealous–but feelings of jealousy do not automatically equal abuse in the absence of abusive behaviour relating to that jealousy. & you can apply the same concept to things such as crying or showing other signs of emotional upset when confronted with criticism, asking your partner to contribute more around the house, or a great deal of other things that I could name: these could all be manipulation tactics used by an abuser, responses to abuse manifested by victims (which the abusers may then spin around as evidence that they’re the ones being abused), or examples of simple conflicts that arise in nonabusive relationships that can be worked through in a constructive way.

abusers know how to manipulate shallow or inaccurate understandings of how abuse operates to the detriment of their victims, and they benefit from descriptions of abuse that abstract it away from dynamics of power and control. let’s avoid making their jobs easier for them.

[makingstuffup]

And while we’re at it, let’s all recognize that a tumblr user saying “you remind me of my abuser” is utterly meaningless at this point (if it ever had any meaning). Too many disingenuous, toxic users have used that as a trump card to shut down those they disagree with, and I for one do not ever want to hear it again.

[allyitis]

[content warning: rape, abuse]

between “not having sex with your non-ace partner is abuse,” “having sex with someone you’re not sexually attracted to is always them raping you,” and “it’s easy to keep yourself from being raped,” i really never want to hear aphobes discuss rape and rape culture ever again

[disco-discourse]

NO ONE EVER SAID (1) STOP LYING ABOUT ABUSE VICTIMS

[catandkitty]

i’m so sick of ace tumblr lying about what i said in my own fucking post! my rapist ex partner was NOT ACE! this wasn’t a case of, well maybe she’s RAPING HER ACE PARTNER WHO DOESN’T WANT SEX! HE WAS A SERIAL RAPIST! he refused to have sex when i wanted to because it made it easier for him to REGULARLY PHYSICALLY AND SEXUALLY ASSAULT ME! every time i have to read some new fuckface lie about some shit i literally never fucking said i want to kill myself! FEEL FREE TO REBLOG AND/OR LINK THOSE SHITHEADS TO THIS POST BC I WANT THEM ALL TO FEEL AS FUCKING AWFUL AS THEY SHOULD!

[disco-discourse]

@acephobia-is-real @interqueerlove

[keebocourse]

(this may not make any sense, so I apologize for rambling) Because I’ve seen several posts misunderstanding what ‘sexual attraction’ actually is, I thought I might attempt to clear up the confusion.

Let’s say you have never felt a desire to eat an apple. You feel neutral about the whole thing, but sometimes your partner makes apple fritters, and you don’t want to make them feel bad, so you try one for them. You still don’t have the desire for one.

Or, maybe you don’t desire to eat an apple, but you eat them occasionally because you like the texture, and there’s nothing better to eat. You still don’t desire to actively go out and eat apples.

Or perhaps you don’t like eating apples, no matter what form they’re in, or who serves them to you. It doesn’t matter to you, you just don’t like them.

As you can see, I’m comparing the act of sex to the act of eating an apple. You can still have sex without actually feeling sexual attraction.

[colorisbyshe]

Telling young people it’s natural and healthy and not at all abusive to have sex with their partner so their partner doesn’t feel bad is fucking horrific. It’s horrific.

If you don’t desire sex, you don’t owe your partner anything. Having sex with someone “so they don’t feel bad” is not the same as eating someone’s dessert you weren’t craving. Holy shit.

[keebocourse]

There’s a difference between being coerced into having sex with your partner, and mutually agreeing to.

[colorisbyshe]

There’s literally nothing healthy about a relationship where one partner is continually having sex they do not want or crave just to make the other partner happy, even if it is technically consented to.

Guilt or “well they’ll be sad if I don’t say yes” is NEVER a good enough reason to have sex and you encouraging this puts a lot of young people in dangerous positions.

Even consensual sex can be unhealthy and bad sex. Consent should be enthusiastic and for yourself.

[gracklesong]

I feel like these posts are popular for two reasons:

- They are made by very young people with little to no sexual experience who are under the impression that having sex without attraction is no more uncomfortable or potentially upsetting than eating underseasoned mashed potatoes. Sex you don’t actually want can hurt! It can make you disassociate! It can make you feel objectified and reduced to a body! Furthermore, nobody who cares about you will WANT to have sex with you if you don’t desire it! It’s usually quite obvious when people are faking enthusiasm, and even if it isn’t, decent people will feel awful if they found out they were having sex with someone who didn’t want it! A partner who will have sex with you knowing full well you don’t enjoy it and would never seek it out is a bad person! That is literally relationship rape, and it should not be normalized!

- A lot of young people are terrified that if they don’t do this, they will never be able to have a relationship. That is simply not true. There are a lot of people who don’t and wouldn’t identify as ace who will give up sex in a healthy, loving relationship. When you’re young, it seems like everyone around you is having tons of sex and dating and being popular, but the fact of the matter is your peers are still figuring things out themselves, and are often experiencing their lives and relationships very differently than what it looks like from outside.

When you reach your late twenties and thirties, you will be amazed how much more candid and honest people are about their desire and how they feel about past relationships. There are a lot more people in happy relationships that don’t have sex than you think! There are also a lot of people who are miserable in their relationships in part because of mismatched sex drives, but they’re too afraid of loneliness to leave. Do not waste years of your life feeling like you have to engage in what you think partner wants if you yourself don’t want it! It builds resentment and misery, it drives you apart from the other person. You deserve better, and you will find it, even if it means having to wait a little longer to get there. Your life and chance of happiness does not disappear at 25; do not make yourself miserable just to cling onto someone you’re fundamentally incompatible with. Clear communication about your desires, including making boundaries and respecting those of your partner’s, is the key to happiness, even if some potential partners are scared off by it. Laying back and letting someone use your body is something only promoted by religious fundamentalists who feel you have no inherent right to happiness or bodily autonomy yourself.