Except OPās scare-quotes characterization of antizionist beliefs (regardless of whether it is correct in how it prescribes āwhatās Jewishā or not) isnāt internally incoherent or contradictory at all if the antizionist believes that Israel is erroneously associating & representing itself with Jewishness. and this is what many of its claimants do believe, that israel misrepresents itself as an agent of jewish people generally or as acting in collective jewish interest when it does not, but by creating that association to the rest of the world it āincreases antisemitismā anyway (āisrael increases antisemitismā is also what people are actually saying is happening; nobody is arguing that israel "invented" antisemitism wholesale, or that it did not exist beforehand at all. mossadspypigeon's 2nd question is just shamelessly attacking an obvious strawman).
Yet it's Israel's fault that antisemitism is on the rise? What happened to "conflating Judaism with Zionism is antisemitic"?
@otakuvampyre the problem is that israel itself conflates judaism with zionism; the fact that they do this while committing an endless stream of crimes against humanity & civil rights oppressions is what people are critiquing as "leading to an increase in antisemitism". of course you could argue its still on the onus of people to make a moral distinction between what israel is & does and jewish people generally (regardless of whether israel chooses to market itself as representative of all jews), but the people saying this are approaching this from a phenomenological perspective, not an individual moral one. that's the distinction you're missing: there's a difference between what people should do in response to things and what tends to happen in response to things, and sometimes you want to respond to & understand the latter.
many antizionists including myself believe the quoted beliefs are wrong anyway (israel & zionism are jewish, but being 'jewish' doesn't mean they can't be condemned or opposed; israel hasnāt āincreased antisemitismā because there no longer exists structural antisemitism to āincreaseā, & there is no evidence antisemitism-as-interpersonal-bigotry incidences have increased), but they arenāt inconsistent with each other, and itās interesting that instead of using any of the actual reasons to discredit it, the op instead makes a shitty strawman & spits out a list of nonsense questions at it. itās not very intellectually honest!
you're right, @siryouarebeingmocked, it isn't gaslighting because the supposed āgaslightingā in question is an imagined strawman in the first place. op is making up their own nonsense fallacies to fling shit at.
2. why was antisemitism a thing long before ā48? why were we dhimmis? like hello
already addressed the first part. but the second question is even more deliciously disingenuous! being a dhimmi was simply not a function of antisemitism, as other non-muslim religious groups (like christians) were dhimmis too under the ottomans. if being a dhimmi can be treated as evidence or a qualifier of having been horribly oppressed in 'pre-48' palestine, then do you regard 'christophobia' as having been a similar force to antisemitism in that time and place? moreover, if being a dhimmi applied just as much to other religious groups apart from jews, how could you characterize it as a form of "antisemitic oppression" specifically?
4. why does every single piece of propaganda surrounding israel echo thousands of years of jew hatred?
simply, it doesn't. a key part of historical antisemitic propaganda is the, you know, libel and lies aspect. a key part of the accusations levied at israel now in the face of their 60+ year military occupation, in the face of recent & ongoing ethnic cleansings and land annexations, in the face of their campaign to successfully raze a densely populated civilian district to the ground, is that many of the things they are being accused of are well-documented and true. nobody's "echoing" anything; jewish people are actually doing awful things in real time, and shielding themselves from critique over it by crying antisemitism.
and even if theyāre yelling about zionistsā¦why are they doing so at a synagogue or yom kippur services or a hanukkah lighting event or at the classroom of a jewish studies professor orā¦
there have been organized antizionist protests at synagogues before, but many of these have specifically been due to those synagogues hosting events encouraging things like sale of illicitly occupied west bank properties, something that is illegal under international law. if synagogues and other jewish cultural and religious centers are going to politically or financially support Israel in its crimes then they should be subject to protests.
