I'm autistic and my special interest is dinosaurs, specifically triceratops and other ceratopsians, since 2019! However not in the "I know everything about them"-way, but in the "I love them so much, I collect them and they are my children"- way.
Currently I'm shifting between being hyperfixated on Haunted Hotel, the MCU, the Amrev/Hamilton, and norse mythology (as it is also a big part of my culture).
I post art, edits, yaps, shitposts, and other things! Asks and requests are open!
Hi guys, I'm here to discuss hostrequired / Isaac. Originally this was just gonna be one big tumblr paragraph but I made it in typical online fashion: a google doc.
My dms are open if anyone has any questions or anything they'd like to add/discuss and I want no hate sent to this person. I also don't want anyone to search for the identities of the people here for the sake of their privacy.
Okay so like this was made for the Instagram trend thingy but I also wanted to incorporate it with Tumblr's layout :D
Idk if it works but hey at least I tried
ALSO QUICK RAMBLE!!
Hamilton and Burr's whole motifs are related with time
"Why do you write like you're running out of time"
"Just you wait"
"I'm willing to wait for it"
So I represented both as different time devices
Hamilton is a stopwatch, because y'know the whole running out of time thing. It's always used for a deadline or a plan, so it can give off a feeling of ambition or determination. While also giving off a vibe of urgency and pressure.
Burr is an hourglass. Patient and slow. But it builds up over time. It's also very delicate. One drop and the whole glass shatters, needing to be rebuilt. This can be interpreted as Burr's strategy whenever he fails, he stops and rethinks his entire plan and rebuilds a new goal.
Additionally, hourglasses are asymmetrical. Lin explained once that he wrote Burr to be asymmetrical. And an hourglass never always has the same grains of sand on each side (at least not often). So yeah bonus points there :D
Also Eliza has a time motif too
"It's only a matter of time"
I haven't decided on a time device for her just yet but so far I'd probably choose a grandfather clock. Stable, welcoming/homey, and from my research it can last very long. And she lived the longest.
be normal about people who wear diapers. be normal about people who need colostomy/catheter bags. be normal about people who need to wear pads or pad their mattress. be normal about incontinence. it’s not funny or weird or gross, it can happen to anyone of any age, and it’s frankly embarrassing that some of y’all can’t be normal about the aspects of disability that ick you out
I think I need to state the obvious here; no one knows 100% if they were lovers or just friends. We have reasonable evidence to believe that they were lovers, or at least had something romantic between them... However, we can also see that they refer to each other as "friends".
I posted a video about this on my tiktok, but I'll post this here as well; in text format instead of a slideshow.
Here is basically what I'll talk about:
History of male friendships
In ancient times, men were extremely close. They valued male friendships a lot, even more than their relationship between their wife. This was because men believed women to be inferior to men. This belief is still present today in many parts of the world, and it was, of course, a common thing to believe in the 18th century – the timeline in which Laurens and Hamilton were alive.
Men would embrace each other, hold hands, sleep in the same bed if necessary, and even go as far as kiss. Kissing your male friend, as a male, on the cheek was nothing unusual. It is not only a greeting in some cultures, it is also a sign of affection and to indicate friendship, family relationship, or to confer congratulations, to comfort someone, or to show respect... It was not generally seen as anything romantic.
Although homosexuality was highly looked down upon, people were not really as scared to be labeled as "gay" as people are today. And feelings of love were not as strictly labeled as either "platonic" or "romantic" as they are today either.
In many instances, male friendships, in the 1700s-1800s, had a similar intensity as a romantic relationship between a female and a male. Many do not know this, and therefore assume close male friends were lovers... Which is probably the case for Hamilton and Laurens.
Men would use very affectionate and endearing words to each other, which is seen in the Hamilton-Laurens letters. However, there is always a line to cross. And many think that Hamilton and Laurens definitely crossed that line.
Hamilton & Laurens
Before we dig deeper into Laurens' relationship with Hamilton, we need to discuss his supposed homosexuality.
John Laurens didn't seem to necessarily express any attraction towards women. We know this, not only because of his sexist behaviors and his lack of effort to humble his wife, but we can also read about this in his father's letters.
"Master Jack is too closely wedded to his studies to think about any of the Miss Nanny's"
Henry Laurens writes.
This basically says that John was too focused on his studies to show any interest in women.
However, he was a teenager at that time, and not every teenager starts developing feelings for people at the same age.
Henry did not seem so happy with John's lack of interest in women, but we also do know that Henry was most certainly emotionally manipulative towards John, which we also can read in letters. But I will not discuss that now, that is for another post.
Anyways, John expressed a fair lot of sexist behaviors and opinions, even towards his own sisters. Most men had some sort of sexist belief, because as said before, men believed women to be inferior. But it's almost as if Laurens showed more toxic masculinity and seemed to be quite strict on the subject. This, most likely, plays a part in Laurens' supposed homosexuality.
Laurens hid the fact that he had a wife (and a child) from Hamilton for nearly two years. This awakes questions. Why did he do that? To get a better chance with Hamilton, or to try and forget his family? Or was it simply because he didn't want to share such a fact about himself to someone new, and never found the opportunity to tell him?
Nevertheless, we know for a fact that Laurens only married his wife, Martha Manning, after she got pregnant. He married her to keep legitimacy of their child, but also out of pity.
John writes to his uncle;
"...Pity has obliged me to marry.."
When Laurens left for war, he left his pregnant wife in a whole other country... In December 1780, when congress chose John to be a special minister to France and had him travel there, Martha decided to travel with her daughter to reconnect with him upon hearing his arrival in France.
But apparently, John completed his mission and returned to the United States before Martha was able to see him.
Martha Manning died in France, 1781, during this trip. Only a year before John himself died. Their child, Frances, was sent to live with her aunt.
I don't know if he had the opportunity to bring his wife with him when he went home to America to fight, but he certainly did not make any (known) effort to visit his wife or daughter while in France.
However, a thing worth to know, is that Laurens only ever called his wife "Dear Girl", and Hamilton "Dear Boy"... As far as we know. We know that Hamilton was special to Laurens, but was his wife really special? Or was it just an affectionate name out of pity, because he felt bad? Did he grant her that name to make her feel loved? Whatever the reason is, this supports Laurens and Hamilton being lovers, or at least having some kind of chemistry, seeing as Laurens didn't call his other close friends such names.
Many believe that Laurens was gay, mostly because of his extreme lack of affection towards women, which his sexist beliefs could've played a major role in, but also because of his letter correspondence between Alexander Hamilton, and a guy named Francis Kinloch. We will never know his true sexuality though.
Time to talk about Hamilton, his wife, and his supposed bisexuality.
Alexander Hamilton was born out of wedlock in Charlestown, in the Colony of Nevis, in the British West Indies in 1755 or 1757. His father left when he was about 10 (depends on what birth year you go off), and his mother died when he was around 12-13, leaving both him and his brother orphaned.
Contrary to popular belief, Alexander did have a number of parental figures growing up. But unlike Laurens, who was born and raised to be that typical man of their time, and whose father chose his career path, Alexander was more "free".
This is a possible factor to Alexander's openness, the way he started his first (survived) letter to Laurens with the famous;
"Cold in my professions, warm in my friendships..."
Laurens was pretty disciplined, and was probably taught a number of different things on how to be the ideal man.
Hamilton, however, didn't have the same opportunity, and his environment growing up was very different from Laurens'.
We can see in letters when comparing them that Hamilton seems much more affectionate. Although Laurens uses affectionate language as well, he seems more "professional" and "careful" than Hamilton.
Another thing to note is that Hamilton was often described as feminine.
"...something almost feminine about his gentleness and concern for the comfort and happiness of other people..."
These are reasons as to why people believe Hamilton was bisexual, especially because he expressed love (true love, mind you) towards Eliza as well! Reading the letters between him and Eliza, it is evident that he really did love her.
Note that Hamilton was a flirtatious man, and that his letters to Laurens seem almost as flirtatous as his letters to Eliza. Even if his flirtatious language calmed when he met Eliza, the years before that he definitely expressed something more "romantic" and flirtatious in his letters to Laurens.
And supposedly, someone(?) had asked Hamilton if he was bisexual (in other terms, of course). I don't know whether or not this is true, but it is certainly another reason as to why people think he was bisexual.
Did Alexander really invite Laurens to have a threesome with him and Eliza on their wedding night?
The simple answer for this is "probably not."
But this obviously needs more digging.
Hamilton writes to Laurens;
"I would invite you after the fall to Albany to be witness of the final consummation"
The word "consummation" is most commonly used to refer to two people having sexual intercourse to seal their relationship/marriage. It was quite common, especially around Christians, to do this.
Hamilton is most certainly referring to this, and he is inviting Laurens to "witness" it. A.k.a., to watch. (which wasn't too unusual!)
Hamilton, in the same letter, mentions that Eliza loves Laurens in the American manner and not the French manner, meaning that she loves him as a friend and nothing more. So the possibility of Hamilton inviting Laurens to have a threesome with them is pretty low... Especially because Hamilton explicitly wrote "witness", and not "join". So, he most likely did NOT invite Laurens to have a threesome with him and his wife.
So, were Hamilton and Laurens lovers? (Conclusion)
Considering the little knowledge we have, we cannot say for sure.
Historians say that the possibility of them being lovers, at least before Hamilton met Eliza, is big!
Personally, I think it is very possible that they were lovers, or at the very least had some sort of romantic relationship. A lot of things point to a romantic bond, however a lot of things also point to them being only close friends.
But from my perspective, the romantic signs outnumber the platonic ones in their first years of friendship. It is clear, however, that Alexander did really love Eliza, and you can see an obvious change in Alexander's language towards John after Eliza came into his life.
To summarize their relationship with a bit of comedy, I'd say it's more like a high school crush type of situation; Alexander and John had a crush on one another, which possibly turned into something more serious, before Alexander fell in love with the new girl at school, and they ended up together, later marrying. High school sweethearts.
But in all seriousness, my friend actually worded it amazingly good;
"they were just real close friends trying to serve one anothers ‘needs’ till they found the one"
Which is a very good and possible theory!
But, is it okay to ship Lams?
I'd say so, yes.
Shipping historical figures is weird asf if the people didn't have any romantic chemistry and so... Which Laurens and Hamilton seemed to have.
Therefore, I think it is okay to ship Lams. But of course is it also okay to not ship Lams, and to dislike it! We will never know for sure if they were lovers or not, and we cannot say that they 100% weren't lovers or 100% were. Sadly, a lot of letters have been destroyed/not found, and we can only know so much.
Feel free to ask questions or add anything, whether it's supporting them being just friends or the possibility of them being lovers.
I know I haven't covered everything in this post, like Hamilton joking about his own pp in the first (survived) letter to Laurens, so if you're interested in reading that; go on my tiktok (@historicalhamsandwich) and check out my slideshow about this there. (I also cover more letters)
i’d also like to add that hamilton had was like- OBSESSED with greek mythology and ancient greek culture to the point that he (correct me if im wrong i think i read it in the chernow book so- take it with a grain of salt) also had a lot of thoughts about their relationship to sexuality, like polyamory, orgies, “trading wives” etc.
he was definitely not as inhibited accepting his sexuality, whatever it might have been, as laurens.
he also grew up in a place where homosexuality was a lot more common than in south carolina in the late 1700s, as people who were prosecuted for being queer went to the “new world” to escape the stricter regimes in their home countries.
while we have no concrete proof for this, it is not unlikely that partially due to this hamilton and laurens had different views of their relationship. hamilton probably saw them similarly to Akhilleus and Patroklus or Alexander of Makedonia and Hephaestion.
i personally find it unlikely that either saw themselves as truly/purely romantically attracted to the other, most likely just a very intense emotional and/or physical relationship that may have had every indicator of a gay relationship to us now, but was to them simply a friendship.
idk bro i have a lot of thoughts about this and i don’t think i can put them all into words. sorry if this is convoluted or hard to understand, im rambling :,)
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