me highkey whenever people give watari and L a father-son relationship
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@fuckyouwatari
me highkey whenever people give watari and L a father-son relationship
it also makes me laugh that Watari Defenders make it out that watari treating L as some plaything instead of a person is too far. like… the main character of this show is a genius 18 year old who obtains a book of death that, if he writes the name of a person while thinking about their face, they’ll die of a heart attack. and a silly goth shinigami follows him around and he has to keep up the “perfect citizen” act so he can continue his role as the New God of the world.
and they think that watari, taking advantage of an already shitty system for disenfranchised kids who don’t have ANY other relatives to take them in, to which watari can do whatever he pleases with them (including pushing them over their mental limits) and trying to find a “backup L” is TOO FAR????????? 😃😃😃 be SO fucking serious rn
the pure denial in watari defenders is mind boggling to me, not because watari is a real person who has For Sure done all the awful things i imagine he has in my headcanons (i am very much in tune with reality, thank you very much), but because… somehow. somehow, watari defenders come off exactly like the people who defend abusers irl. which is ODD, because i am aware of the reality that watari isn’t a real person!!!
but idk, their resistance to other people’s takes on watari doesn’t feel like it comes from a place of “i don’t personally see it,” but more from a place of “i don’t want to see it, because it’s so awful and i don’t want to IMAGINE L going through that, and i don’t want to IMAGINE watari putting L through that.”
and it does NOT surprise me in the fucking slightest that the main person who was on the Defensive with a capital D on The Post is a harry p*tter enjoyer 😭😭😭 like,,,,,,,, yeah. yeah, still enjoying that “series” in current day? then i don’t doubt it that this person defends the parts of that shitty book series whenever people bring up the creator and how she’s no joke funding discriminatory “causes” and would rather so many minorities not exist 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
LMAOOOOOOOOO
the way this passage (which was included in a translation that they inserted into the post) actually describes them and their adherence to denial. XD
the pure denial in watari defenders is mind boggling to me, not because watari is a real person who has For Sure done all the awful things i imagine he has in my headcanons (i am very much in tune with reality, thank you very much), but because… somehow. somehow, watari defenders come off exactly like the people who defend abusers irl. which is ODD, because i am aware of the reality that watari isn’t a real person!!!
but idk, their resistance to other people’s takes on watari doesn’t feel like it comes from a place of “i don’t personally see it,” but more from a place of “i don’t want to see it, because it’s so awful and i don’t want to IMAGINE L going through that, and i don’t want to IMAGINE watari putting L through that.”
and it does NOT surprise me in the fucking slightest that the main person who was on the Defensive with a capital D on The Post is a harry p*tter enjoyer 😭😭😭 like,,,,,,,, yeah. yeah, still enjoying that “series” in current day? then i don’t doubt it that this person defends the parts of that shitty book series whenever people bring up the creator and how she’s no joke funding discriminatory “causes” and would rather so many minorities not exist 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
the pure denial in watari defenders is mind boggling to me, not because watari is a real person who has For Sure done all the awful things i imagine he has in my headcanons (i am very much in tune with reality, thank you very much), but because… somehow. somehow, watari defenders come off exactly like the people who defend abusers irl. which is ODD, because i am aware of the reality that watari isn’t a real person!!!
but idk, their resistance to other people’s takes on watari doesn’t feel like it comes from a place of “i don’t personally see it,” but more from a place of “i don’t want to see it, because it’s so awful and i don’t want to IMAGINE L going through that, and i don’t want to IMAGINE watari putting L through that.”
you gotta be careful what you monger. if its fish people will like you but if its war then less so. various results
this post was insane and such a shitshow jdksjdksjsjskajsja (amused)
anywho. the most unexpected, but needed, thing my trauma therapist ever said is that “more people than you think out there would rather be in denial of something very terrible happening to a child right in front of their very eyes. they think to themself, ‘no… that’s awful… their parent(s) wouldn’t do that. who could ever do such a thing?’”
i didn’t even feed into this, i was just going on that no one can make me change my mind that watari is god awful and traumatized L willingly and uncaringly, despite what people say about the english translations being off and etc.
real death note fans want to beat quillsh wammy to death
real death note fans want to beat quillsh wammy to death
real death note fans want to beat quillsh wammy to death
real death note fans want to beat quillsh wammy to death
real death note fans want to beat quillsh wammy to death
i don’t get people who get into death note, which is full of fucked up characters, but draw the line at the idea that watari isn’t a good person 🤨 like,,, make it make sense ❤️
that person was lying btw. i found the original japanese version and asked my friend who knows japanese to translate it for me, and his translation was more or less the same as the official english translation.
watari…
raises kids as detectives as a hobby
(LAUGHS)
that’s kind of harsh, isn’t it?
also my friend said that THERE’S NOTHING IN THERE THAT SAYS HE’S DOING IT FOR THE BETTERMENT OF HUMANITY, so wtf, bro 🤨 why’d you put your own headcanon in the same line where you say what the translation says? 🤔🤔🤔
(i’m just gonna post this on its own so i can just link to this in posts instead of pulling it up every single time (I||; - . -))
Okay so here's the context of the english translation. Bad. Really bad. Vilified Watari. Original context in Japanese is "personal interest", which can indicate passion, interest, a sense of accomplishment, whether it is to see them succeed or do good to the world or other.
I think I'm overreacting (sigh) maybe it's because I wanted to believe that Watari is the faithful servant and father figure of L, instead of someone with malice. Yes he may have negligence, when delivering the policy of Wammy's House, but still... I think I'll stop here and let others judge Watari themselves.
they should have vilified him more tbh
(i’m just gonna post this on its own so i can just link to this in posts instead of pulling it up every single time (I||; - . -))
Okay so here's the context of the english translation. Bad. Really bad. Vilified Watari. Original context in Japanese is "personal interest", which can indicate passion, interest, a sense of accomplishment, whether it is to see them succeed or do good to the world or other.
I think I'm overreacting (sigh) maybe it's because I wanted to believe that Watari is the faithful servant and father figure of L, instead of someone with malice. Yes he may have negligence, when delivering the policy of Wammy's House, but still... I think I'll stop here and let others judge Watari themselves.
hey @lunalit-river, if this line was a “mistranslation” so to speak,
then can you explain to me this paragraph from “another note: the LA BB murder cases”? 😀
Discuss A topic with A informations, discuss B topic with B informations. My personal opinion is that LABB is somehow quite far from death note manga interpretation of the characters, which is evident from critics in the mandarin dn fandom (Japanese fandom I'll have to look into it) To name one very big issue, Mello in LABB as the narrator is quite bizarre and gives the story many plot holes, which I highly suspect even Ohba and Obata would agree with (more of Nisio Isin breaking all limits and getting a bit too free in novel writing.) As I currently do not have access to the original text of LABB, and also LABB is kinda out of topic if we were to discuss the manga mistranslation, I am afraid that I currently could not answer what you've raised.
100%. I'll just make a brief addition and say that the expanded universe is keen on portraying Watari as both a father figure to L and also a moral compass or sorts — as well as an instigator of change, for the betterment of humanity. I like this portrayal a lot, as it humanises them both further in a realistic way.
In fact, if we do consider the expanded universe as additional proof of this mindset, then Watari's diary entries from the movie (which @lunalit-river was so kind to translate for us!) further confirms how much Watari cares about L.
Watari is grieving L's death even before he dies from writing his own name in the Death Note. I'm especially interested in the following quotes:
Was it arrogant of me to think that I had given you everything you needed?
Did Watari believe he could provide for L fully? Give him what he needed, from a material, emotional and educational standpoint? Here it seems that Watari realizes he failed L somehow, that perhaps he didn't realize he needed something more.
Watari helped L, N, M, B, R, K, all the letters at Wammy's gifted program to learn and focus on their strengths, so they could thrive and become a force of good. As an inventor, he also seems intent on understanding what kind of environment is necessary for these gifted young boys and girls to achieve their potential — and so he gives them every opportunity to pursue their goals.
K left; Spiraling Trap, Watari's diaries and L:Change the WorLd explain what happened, with a few plot holes here and there, if we assume it's the same character (the "he" might be a mistranslation since K is depicted as a woman):
Once upon a time, K used to work with Watari investigating criminals. The reasons K left Watari… I may be one of them. I caught the criminal that K was trying to let slip away… Now that I think about it, that must have been the trigger. K felt that there was a limit to law-abiding criminal investigations in the wake of a certain incident, and split from Watari. While K was working with Watari, he felt that the motive behind a certain crime justified it, and wanted to let the perpetrator off. After he left Watari, K traveled around the world doing research. I wonder what he found…
Spiraling Trap, dating sim dialogue
The above, [I caught the criminal that K was trying to let slip away] is a reference to L's morals and his sense of justice — explained to us in AN:LABB, when he tells Naomi Misora that he cannot overlook evil. K could, and believed that some crimes were justified (foreshadowing for unleashing a deadly virus that would kill most of humanity, and save the world? //L:CtW).
A died. B went insane. L kills himself for his goals.
Was this all for victory? Was this all for justice?
Watari grieves because L would rather die to defeat Kira than to preserve himself. However, he also mentions the following:
(...) Your talent has surpassed mine, and now you are consuming yourself (...)
This is my educated guess, but I believe Watari was very well aware that he enabled L to the point that he became out of balance. I don't think he meant to, and the expanded universe does give us reason to extrapolate that Watari had only good intentions towards L. That he's a kind man who wanted to help children — though in his ambition to help, he enabled too much, and that caused a series of losses.
From personal experience with a good friend who is extraordinarily intelligent, that kind of unique mind without adequate nurturing (emotional, healthy relationships / not just an education, a focus on logic and ambition) can become out of balance.
That's also why I love these quotes from L, in Spiraling Trap:
You give me true peace of mind. No one could ever replace you. For your sake… I’d think of a way to get through anything. We share a bond.
It suggests to me that default/canon!L is not at ease. He's out of balance and very much not at peace in many ways that aren't evident until he chooses to say so.
Watari also feels powerless before the enormity of what L has done. He can't give advice. He can't make it better. He's waiting for L to die.
Interesting that Watari also places himself in the role of L's parent, [I learned a lot from being with you, L, just as parents learn a lot from their children.]. His feelings towards L are of affection and respect; he follow L, helps him, takes care of him.
But Watari is ultimately flawed and didn't predict that L would go so far as to kill himself like this. This isn't L's addiction to games at play, it's his unshakable sense of justice at work. L sacrifices himself for the greater good, just as Watari raises the genius children at Wammy's with the hope that they, too, can make the world a better place.
Only he didn't anticipate this level of immense sacrifice. If anything, I believe that L and Watari have a lot of love for humanity and that is ultimately their undoing (in the expanded universe and manga canon).
translation by lunalit-river
oh… my god? i did NOT know about the movie!watari’s diary entries. the way it was written hurts my heart.
“the expanded universe is keen on portraying Watari as […] an instigator of change, for the betterment of humanity.”
i still can NOT like this interpretation/concept. in fact, it terrifies me more than makes me view watari in a good light??
putting the weight of the world on these children’s shoulders, always (silently) saying “you can stop injustice in the world. you can punish the guilty and the damned”? that’s too much pressure to put on an adult, much less these children.
no child’s life and mental health is worth it for “the betterment of humanity.”
but then again, maybe watari has this realization himself with the following lines… 🤔
“L. Don't you ever place your emotions prior to your goals?”
“L. I never meant for things to end this way. Your talent has surpassed mine, and now you are consuming yourself.”
also it seems odd to me that watari, this man who is clearly intelligent and has studied countless subjects (just given from the fact that he’s an inventor with several patents around the world), did not think to research about child rearing. 🤨 like,,, he knows all about how to put together machines or something, proving he can learn intricate subjects and topics, but when placed in this parental figure to these orphans, DIDN’T think “i should research about this since i care about these kids :)”??? it’s odd!
but maybe the reason why he didn’t read any current material about child rearing is simply because he’s old, and assumes that the way he was raised was right (cause he turned out okay), so there’s no need to research upon it? 🤔🤔🤔 (i am trying my best to see it from all angles.)
and maybe him being old (and therefore being less informed about mental health) also explains why he didn’t anticipate L killing himself in the name of justice. it’s such an illogical move for any human to do, to kill themself, that it genuinely didn’t cross watari’s mind as a real possibility :o
BUT. i 100% agree and believe your sentiment of “watari enabled L.” like no decent parent would ever let their kid not eat nor eat unhealthily, regardless of the how’s and why’s.
(personal information ahead) i was neglected as a child, mainly through lack of attention from my parents, was emotionally neglected by them, and generally was just ignored. apart of this was my parents getting fed up with me not wanting to eat vegetables as a kid. this… is a normal developmental phase for a kid to go through, to be adversed to eating vegetables. but instead of my parents trying out different recipes that included vegetables, they gave up and let me eat junk food only.
so i have the right to say the following, as someone who (much like L) was allowed to eat only unhealthy foods growing up:
it was not okay. even if their intentions was to have me eat anything at all, it was NOT okay for them to not adjust and to not attempt to find ways for me to eat healthy. this shows a clear lack of caring for my health and my future.
they enabled me to eat unhealthy foods.
that was the end result, and that is not okay for a parent to do.
i eat healthier now of course, but just… god. having good intentions behind your actions towards your child is reasonable to a point, and i feel like what watari did was way past that point of being moral.
which is what leads me to the conclusion that watari didn’t have L’s interests and future in mind, and leads me to the conclusion that he didn’t care about him.
yes, he held a basic level of care for him to not want him to die or be sick in any way, but that’s the bare minimum of caring for other human beings.
let’s revisit the next sentence again…
“L. I never meant for things to end this way. Your talent has surpassed mine, and now you are consuming yourself.”
another possible (keyword “possible”) meaning of this sentence is that while L’s talent (wanting to enforce justice in the world) has surpassed watari’s to the point that L will kill himself for it (“now you are consuming yourself”), watari is saddened by this mainly because he sees L as another part of his cause. his cause to aid humanity.
so while his care for L does cover him being saddened by the idea of him dying… he may not care about L as a human, with a future, who has the rights to goals and dreams like everyone else. if this were true, it’d be upsetting to say the least, as despite watari seeing himself as “caring for the betterment of humanity,” he’s somehow completely overlooking how L should have had the chance to engage in humanity/healthy human experiences (going on vacations, having a friend group or a friend at all, engaging with their local community, having hobbies, etc).
which leads me to bring up how light yagami holds a similar view of himself and his use of the death note. light knows that yes, murder is wrong. but he excuses his murder spree with the death note as “delivering justice.” so, in a sense, he’s doing it “for the betterment of humanity.” 👀
but as near says at the end of the series, if light is going by official forces of justice (laws, the laws on murder), then he still killed people. which, from the perspective of the police, is a crime, and he should be imprisoned for said crimes against humanity. (“you’re nothing more than a crazy serial killer.”)
to summarize, light used the death note “for the betterment of humanity” while not actually caring for the people he killed himself (ex. he never thought of how naomi misora’s family would be distraught by her death).
similarly, watari enabled L to work under the unhealthy conditions he did “for the betterment of humanity,” while not caring for L’s mental health and overall fulfillment in life.
both light yagami and watari did things for “the betterment of humanity,” but that does not mean they actually had humanity** for others, and their good intentions does NOT outweigh the effects of their actions.
**humanity as in caring for another’s physical health, mental health, and fulfillment in life.
i feel like you add a lot of “but watari intended for this as a good thing!!!” after admitting his faults as a way to justify his actions. correct me if i’m wrong, because i don’t intend to be biased here.
in fact, i will admit that i was personally biased with the reblog and tagging lunalit-river. i apologize for that. at the time i thought i had all the information on hand about watari, but i clearly didn’t (with his diary entries from the movie), so that was my own fault.
but going forward, i’m trying to see things as unbiasedly as i can on this post, because i genuinely wanna discuss watari as a character instead of push an agenda. this is a discussion post now XD
watari to L fr