Spoke-n For

24 | she/grrr/GRRRS | bike demon | occasional enjoyer of women | Back after 5+ years lol

[thingsfromthedirt]

David Lynch, Cannes Film Festival (2002)

[lrosewrites]

YOU go make ART and then REFUSE to EXPLAIN it because you already DID your job and now it's the AUDIENCE'S turn to MAKE MEANING out of the ART

[barberrywire-deactivated2025080]

okay mr lynch i will go and do just that as i fucking should

[gothcycle]

[balaclava-trismegistus]

I hope you guys understand that when people describe counter-cultural art movements as "subcultures" that doesn't mean it's like a facebook group or something. We almost seem to have forgotten what a community is. These are genuine cultures which form around art and the philosophies that go into it. Punk rock culture, for example, has its own conventions, traditions, attitudes, rules, language, codes, everything. Every moderately-sized city in this country A complete, free-standing ecosystem of art and ideas, which the only barrier of entry is reciprocal engagement. You give to it as much of yourself as you take from it. So, because people get such an indignant attitude over this; why shouldn't I care about that? Why shouldn't we poke fun at people who pilfer the fruit of any art-culture without taking the time to so much as become aware of it? Taking fashion impressions from those groups, reducing it to an aesthetic, is an erasure of that culture. Particularly when that fashion serves as both elaborate in-group identification and collaborative, communal conversation through creation. I don't want to see that diverse group of artists and true believers get reduced to a cheap, cartoonish novelty any more than they already have, especially if it's just to serve marketing. I don't want to see that happen to anybody's art or the ecosystem that forms around it.

[jillianallen14]

Dear Baby Bats - Goth Band Recommendations

As a middle sibling goth (I’ve been in the subculture for close to 10 years now, so not a baby bat but not an elder goth either), let me turn you on to some bands because we do not gatekeep in this house!! Also, if you want consistently good lesser-known & brand new goth band recs, go follow Awfully Sinister on TikTok and Instagram. He’s a DJ & has great recs. I've found so much music through him because it's really hard to keep up with all the new bands cropping up every year. You want to avoid the goth subreddit because they are extremely gatekeeper-y and argue over labels constantly. It’ll just confuse you, and they are not nice over there.

If you’re very new to the subculture, and you haven’t yet listened to all of Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy, Christian Death, Cocteau Twins, Clan of Xymox, Joy Division, and Depeche Mode, go do so now. You'll want to know which of them you really enjoy the most because it will help you know which sub-subgenre(s) of goth you want to watch out for, and it'll tell you what to look for to find it. For example, Sisters of Mercy is the gothic rock subgenre, Christian Death is deathrock, Cocteau Twins is ethereal wave, Clan of Xymox is like the original darkwave, Joy Division is classic post-punk, etc.

I’ve bolded some of my absolute must-listen to goth bands, and I've put monthly Spotify listeners for each band so you know which ones deserve WAY more love. And in my pre-list ramblings for each OG band, I've given you some key terms to look up so you can more easily find music that's similar to what you enjoy. Okay, here we go:

If you like Bauhaus:

Bauhaus is a hard one because honestly, nobody really sounds like them, and they aren't really that closely associated with a specific sub-subgenre of goth. They have an extremely unique sound. They’re my favorite band of all time (I even have a tattoo for them, like I am devoted lol), but even I have a difficult time finding other bands that scratch their particular itch for me. These bands I’ve listed are as close as you’re gonna get imo.

Virgin Prunes (80’s band that has absolutely unhinged music in the way Bauhaus has unhinged music; one of my favorites; no one else does it like them and no one else ever will; I would actually give my left foot to see them live); 13.2k monthly listeners (this is actually physically painful to me, how is it this low!!! don't walk, RUN to go listen to them)

Alien Sex Fiend (80’s classic unhinged goth); 77k monthly listeners

Sextile (modern band that has some very Bauhaus-sounding guitar work at times); 147k listeners

The Danse Society (80’s unhinged goth; has similar experimental vibes to Bauhaus imo); 36k listeners

Sex Beat (80’s band); not even really on Spotify

Ritual Howls (modern band; I don’t know why it gives Bauhaus, but it does; one of the few modern bands that scratches that particular itch for me); 45k listeners

The Agnes Circle (modern band; one of my favorites; they have the right Bauhaus-like atmosphere for me); 52k listeners

Traitrs (I can’t explain why they remind me of Bauhaus, but they do; another one of my fave modern bands; they make me want to start levitating and doing the Ian Curtis dance in the same way Bauhaus does lol); 239k listeners

If you like Siouxsie and the Banshees:

Siouxsie is another one that's hard to pin down sound-wise because again, they don't really fit into one specific sub-subgenre, so all of these recs are just goth bands with female vocalists who have the same kind of powerful vocals that Siouxsie does.

Second Still (modern band; singer sounds a lot like Siouxsie to me at times); 69k listeners

Skeletal Family (80’s band; has the same “women in punk” vibes that Siouxsie has); 55k listeners

Xmal Deutschland (80’s band; has the same powerful vocals that Siouxsie has; makes you wanna go stupid go crazy the way the Banshees do); 73k listeners

Secret Shame (modern band w/ w woman singer; has the same rage that Siouxsie songs have to me, especially early Siouxsie); 6k listeners (let's get those numbers up, folks!!!)

Rosegarden Funeral Party (modern band w/ a woman vocalist); 57k listeners

Mephisto Walz (90s & 2000s; sounds so much like the Banshees at times); 56k listeners

If you like Depeche Mode:

For Depeche Mode enjoyers (which DM is kind of on the fringes of what’s considered “goth,” but they’re so entrenched in the subculture that I included them anyway), you’re gonna want to delve into modern goth playlists that have a lot of EBM (electronic body music) and modern goth that leans towards synthpop/synthwave. So those are the kinds of playlists you’ll want to search up for similar sounds to DM.

Nuovo Testamento (modern band; combines post-punk and pop elements in a way that’s very similar to Depeche Mode; lots of fun live, and they have a good sound); 25k listeners

Boy Harsher (modern band; relies heavily on synth; feels like it should be playing at every goth club); 558k listeners

ULTRA SUNN (modern band; singer sounds like Dave Gahan); 217k listeners (they just blew up on tiktok recently, which explains why this just skyrocketed since the last time I was on their Spotify page lol; good for them, good for them, they deserve it)

Ministry's first album, which was synthwave/synthpop before they went industrial (this is one of my all-time favorite albums)

French Police (modern band); 252k listeners

Closed Tear (modern band); 152k listeners

Night Sins (modern band); 33k listeners

Panic Priest (modern band; vocals sound decently similar to Dave Gahan & there is a lot of reliance on synth; In All Severity is a gorgeous song); 5k listeners

Fad Gadget (underrated 80’s band; I just feel like if you like DM, you’re also gonna like this band); 58k listeners

If you like The Cure:

You'll be hard-pressed to find a goth band that wasn't influenced by The Cure, so I really can't give you any key terms for what to look up lol. They also changed their sound so frequently that it entirely depends on what era of The Cure's music you're looking to find similar music for.

Vision Video (modern band; combines post-punk and pop elements like The Cure does; one of my fave modern goth bands; they are INCREDIBLE live); 52k listeners (I'm gonna need y'all to get a song or two of theirs to blow up on tiktok expeditiously lol)

Urban Heat (modern band; great live); 36k listeners

The Chameleons (80’s band; very underrated; they are also very good live); 167k listeners

House of Harm (modern band, very new; also very good live; has pop elements); 44k listeners

Deceits (modern band, another very new one); 28k listeners (it's crazy how much this number has grown the past two months because it was in the single thousands not that long ago; everyone say thank you, tiktok)

Drab Majesty (modern band; their instrumentals remind me of The Cure); 172k listeners

Double Echo (modern band; their instrumentals also remind me of The Cure); 15k listeners (let's get these numbers up!!!)

The Bolshoi (underrated 80’s band that combines new wave and goth elements in a similar way to The Cure); 114k listeners

Miss Teen America (brand new band from NYC! They only have one single out right now, and it’s well worth listening to); 940 monthly listeners (y’all know what to do!!! Let’s get those numbers up, up, up!) link to their single: https://open.spotify.com/album/4nvdZeUVLLrMv3tEziCqm7?si=2WVS7-eYQLGR7Id3wLiKhg

If you like Clan of Xymox:

Most of these bands will be modern ones because Clan of Xymox was honestly way ahead of their time. (They are also amazing live, so go see them before they eventually call it quits!) For playlists that are full of their vibe, you’re gonna want to look up “darkwave” playlists and also some EBM. Clan of Xymox pioneered darkwave, so any darkwave band you listen to is gonna be influenced by their sound in some way or another.

Harsh Symmetry (modern, very new; very heavily relies on synth); 29k listeners

Ssleeping Desiress (modern band; instrumentals similar to Xymox); 55k listeners

Twin Tribes (probably my favorite modern goth band; they are fucking incredible, and I’m dying to see them live); 276k listeners

ACTORS (modern band; heavily relies on synth); 86k listeners

Mareux (modern; heavily relies on synth); 4.8 million listeners (this is wild!!!! everyone say thank you, tiktok)

Sixth June (modern); 23k listeners

Plastique Noir (modern); 40k listeners

Rendez Vous (modern); 160k listeners

Minuit Machine (modern); 97k listeners

If you like Christian Death:

All of these recs will be deathrock recs or goth bands that heavily leaned on punk sounds. So if CD is the OG goth band you’re most fond of, you’re gonna want to delve into deathrock playlists for similar sounds.

Asylum Party (80’s band); not on spotify

45 Grave (80’s band); 47k listeners

Voodoo Church (80’s band; probably my favorite out of this bunch; I actually like them more than Christian Death); 7k listeners (let's get these numbers up immediately!!!!)

Ausgang (80’s band); 2k listeners (WHAT; they deserve so much more, damn)

Corpus Delicti (90’s band; they are very good; they sound the least like Christian Death on this list imo); 26k listeners

13th Chime (80’s band; very underrated); 6k listeners

The Birthday Party (80’s band; very unhinged sound); 54k listeners

UK Decay (you know, I actually don’t know what era they’re from; unhinged sound); 1k listeners (omg)

Super Heroines (underrated 80’s band); 2k listeners (you see what I meant about underrated?)

Specimen (80s band; this one could have just as easily gone under Bauhaus tbh, but the vocals are generally higher pitched than Peter Murphy’s, so I put them under this category); 102k listeners

Sex Gang Children (80’s band; just so unhinged & I love them for it); 27k listeners

Suspiria (90s, I think? I don’t actually know); barely on Spotify but 27k listeners

Theatre of Hate (80s); 7k listeners

Bloody Dead and Sexy (2000s, I think); 44k listeners

If you like Cocteau Twins:

Cocteau Twins’ early sound is usually categorized as “ethereal wave” goth, so those are the playlists you’ll want to look up if you enjoy their early sound. If you like their later sound, you’re gonna want to lean more towards shoegaze for similar vibes.

Dead Can Dance (80’s band; NO one, and I mean NO ONE, was doing it like Dead Can Dance; so fun to dance to in the goth club); 332k listeners

Lycia (90’s band; their music is very transcendent); 20k listeners

Linea Aspera (modern band; gorgeous woman vocals; honestly, their music is just very beautiful); 67k listeners

This Mortal Coil (formed in the 80s; women vocals that sound extremely similar to Robin Guthrie at times; Sixteen Days/Gathering Dust is just like the best song ever); 310k listeners

If you like Joy Division:

All of these bands will be ones that sound very classically post-punk, so those are the playlists to search out; emphasis on "classic" because post-punk is a very broad term that gets applied to a lot of music. I would argue that Joy Division has had the most influence out of all the OG goth bands on the current goth sound/goth renaissance we're going through right now, so there are a LOT of bands out there for you if you’re a JD fan.

Molchat Doma (modern band); 2.5 million listeners (wow lol, they've grown so much over the past two years, it's actually insane; good for them)

Soviet Soviet (modern band); 152k listeners

Fearing (modern band; very good live); 30k listeners

Ploho (modern band); 146k listeners

Pink Turns Blue (criminally underrated 80’s band; they are SO good live); 98k listeners (this is an actual travesty, this band is way too good to not even be in the hundred thousands)

The Sound (another incredibly underrated 80’s band); 119k listeners

This Cold Night (modern; has the deep vocals of Joy Division and the driving bass); 150k listeners

Bleib Modern (modern); has very similar vocals to Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, which is a band listed under the Sisters of Mercy section of this post, so if you end up liking this band, you should also listen to Red Lorry Yellow Lorry & vice versa; 36k listeners

Lebanon Hanover (modern; has the existential angst that Joy Division always ignites in me); 936k listeners (this is crazy, holy shit!!!!!! go, Lebanon Hanover, go!! now if only they would tour the damn US)

She Past Away (modern; deep vocals); 226k listeners

Belgrado (modern; woman vocals!); 18k listeners (they deserve better than this!!)

Leonora Post Punk (modern; Mexican goth band w/ Spanish vocals, so support them! They’re amazing! They have those deep vocals you want when you’re looking for a similar sound to Joy Division); 56k listeners

O. Children (modern; has the deep vocals & interesting bass lines that Joy Division was known for; great band); 29k listeners

If you like Sisters of Mercy:

This is one of my least favorite goth subcategories, which is odd because I actually love Sisters. But if you’re looking for a lot of music that sounds like SoM, I’d suggest delving into the 90’s and early 2000’s goth music scene. Search out those playlists.

Rosetta Stone (90’s band); 54k listeners

Miazma (modern); 10k listeners

Red Lorry Yellow Lorry (another criminally underrated 80’s band; one of my fave goth bands); 40k listeners (THEY!! DESERVE!! BETTER!!)

Dreamtime (modern); 65 listeners (ouch lol, please go show them some love)

Fields of the Nephilim (80’s, I think; if you’re a metalhead, you’ll probably appreciate this band); 95k listeners

The Merry Thoughts (80s); 19k listeners

The March Violets (underrated 80s; might be a controversial opinion to put them under SoM, but I’m standing by it); 69k listeners

Horror Vacui (modern; it’s kind of a stretch putting them here tbh, but I couldn’t figure out what other category to put them under); 44k listeners

Also, if you want a 1500-song, 105-hour goth playlist that’s constantly growing, here you go. The name of it is a dig at my ex lol: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6jCV530pMmOEmDHj4CLNka?si=cEVKiyAwQpaieGiV2pMyqw

[kitsunetsuki-deactivated2026051]

Sarah Moon - Photo Magazine (Aug. 1975)

[vamprvomit]

"you arent REALLY -------" Rant

prescriptive vs. descriptive, aesthetic vs. subculture

Anybody else tired of seeing terms for aesthetics get treated like they're prescriptive when really some terms are just descriptive?? Especially on social media sites with fast trend cycles, primarily TikTok, people just come up with words to describe how they dress, and then it ends up being a list of guidelines after going through the worst game of telephone. Is there even really a subculture around it? Not for a lot of the common terms I see. Even if there's no real subculture behind the fashion, people will fight tooth in nail in someone's comment section saying that they aren't the term they used to describe themself. For example, fairy grunge is just a description of grunge with fairy elements, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's pretty open to interpretation. What part of that is a specific set of guidelines? I can understand if the term is just not very accurate, but being a pain in someone's comments because they "aren't REALLY xyz" for something that isn't even much of a subculture is insane to me. Is there fairy grunge music? Are there fairy grunge shows? Not really. Some artists might fit the bill well enough, but they usually also fall into a larger category that they consider themselves to be. I'm going to save my thoughts about subculture and the internet for later, but I think you get the idea. There's a massive difference between an aesthetic on TikTok and a subculture, and treating aesthetics just as seriously as subcultures doesn't make any sense.

[err0rose]

yo, is there any older/more experienced punks whose brains I could pick? I like the music, the subculture as well as the fashion, political left-ness of the scene, and oh my god the culture in general around punk shows (at-least the only "punk" show I've been to) was so incredibly nice and encouraging and fuckin COOL.

I trust a random tumblr user more than a website for actual info on the topic of where to start, recommendations and taboos/faux pas to avoid/break intentionally. (Will take recs of websites that are actual punk spaces and not just cashing in on the aesthetic)

Also will take music recs if any are offered :3

DM's open, will share what (if any) knowledge gained if asked.

Thanks to anyone who reads and responds <3

[gothcycle]

I’m only 23, but these books are great histories of punk, and we’re part of a Punk, Riot Grrrl, and Black Metal english class in College.

Lipstick Traces - Greil Marcus

Girls to the Front - Sara Marcus

Subculture: The Meaning of Style - Dick Hebdige (this one is heavy on critical theory)

I’d also recommend the documentary “The Decline of Western Civilization” (1981) which features a lot of early punk bands.

I’m a huge fan of the Olympia and D.C. punk scenes which slowly branched into so many genres like emo, and twee, and grunge, and UGH i love alt subcultures.

Let me know if you have any questions! I can’t promise I have the answer tho ;-)

[redditreceipts]

Hi, I’m curious on your opinion, if you’re willing. I’m a trans woman, I recognize I was born with a male body, but I don’t accept people purposefully calling me a man. I am a woman. I’m curious how you feel about that combination of how I see my identity.

Tw: stalking, harassment

I experience life through the lens that people perceive me as, which is woman. I’m talked over at work, I’m stalked by cars while riding my bike at night, and numerous men have made inappropriate advances toward me. I know I don’t have the specific experiences of sex-based discrimination, but I definitely experience the gender-based discrimination from living in a sexist society.

Hey :) Thanks for the question!

You can of course identify however you like, but to acknowledge material reality, self-identity is not really that important. I would, however, not advocate for people to come up to you and harass you, call you names etc. I also think that it is the kind thing to do in most situations to respect people's pronouns and beliefs, even if you do not share them.

And yes, it is also very problematic that men are treating you like that. This should not happen, and you should be able to maneuver the world without this kind of discrimination. People are seeing you as a woman, and women are treated like shit in this society. However, just because people see you a certain way does not mean that you literally are that thing. For example, there are catholic women who wear headscarves. In an islamophobic environment, some people might think that they are Muslima and shout islamophobic slurs at them. Do these women experience a kind of discrimination similar to that of Muslim women? Yes. But does that make them Muslim? No.

But if people are seeing and treating you as a woman, the gender-based discrimination you face is certainly a problem, which would make you a great ally in the fight against patriarchy and exploitation! Passing trans women and women face a lot of similar struggles, even if I wold argue that they do not belong in the same sex category. These are male violence, homophobia, sexualisation, mental health issues, and overrepresentation in prostitution. I actually think that your voice is very important, and if you are interested in fighting for women's and trans women's rights, I think that you can contribue quite a lot! There are many trans women who are allies in feminist and intersectional fights and I think that your voice can be impotant in bringing attention to these issues :)

[gothcycle]

Hi, that was me. Jumping out of the shadows. Thanks for your perspective, as well as the mostly respectful response. I appreciate the solidarity about our fight against patriarchy and trying to achieve our collective liberation from it.

I do want respond to your second paragraph. I understand the analogy you’re making about catholic women being discriminated as if they were Muslims, but I’d disagree with how you’re applying it. To me, it’d make more sense to apply it to sex, not gender. So while most people might perceive me as a “female body” that doesn’t mean I’m actually biologically female.

What I don’t see is how the gender-based discrimination I face is different from that of a cis-woman. If I’m stalked like a woman, harassed like a woman, and just discriminated as a woman, then what’s the difference? I recognize this doesn’t include the patriarchal objectification of the female body, but I’m trying to get at the patriarchal objectification of the woman gender.

It’s obvious that discrimination against non-passing trans people is different from cis-woman gender-based discrimination, but I’d still argue that its gender-based discrimination. It’s like its own category. Because with non-passing trans people, there’s the perceived biological sex (usually matching that assigned at birth) along with the perceived subversion of gender from their gender expression.

I’m personally of the camp that gender is socially constructed, but that doesn’t make it any less real. It is real, or at least feels socially real in our particular culture contexts (American context btw). My sex is physically real, but honestly the only people who have any reason to know it are my doctor and sexual partners.

Idk, it’s a big tangled up mess, but my personal goal is always to cause the least harm I can. It’s been interesting thinking through it as I type this out, and there’s so many other points that could be discussed, but thanks again for the response.

[gothcycle]

“The bicycle has a soul. If you succeed to love it, it will give you emotions that you will never forget.” – Mario Cipollini

[carnivorecarcass]

[possible-streetwear]

CHRISTIAN DEATH -  Rozz Williams

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 1)

get yourself used to sleeping on your back (and possibly elevated depending on your surgeon) BEFORE surgery.

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 2)

have cough drops on hand because your throat will probably be sore from the breathing tube they use with anesthesia.

[cathedral-spires]

Top surgery tip 3)

Get and use straws. You'll have T-Rex arms for a while but you still need to hydrate.

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 4)

the post surgery compression binder is more comfortable than youd think but it still gets pretty itchy. so dont be afraid to take benydryl, itll help you rest and stop the itch

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 5)

sounds weird but try not to flex your pecs… watched a horror game play through and every time there was a jump scare my whole body tensed up including my pecs which hurt like a bitch

[purplepunchsoda]

Top surgery tip 6)

Have hand sanitizer/ body wipes incase you cannot reach across sinks easily and to also put under your armpits if you cannot get deodorant there

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 7)

you might be numb in some areas affected by the surgery. especially if your surgeon does any liposuction along with just cutting your boobs off. right now my armpits are numb which makes cleaning them weird. less of a tip and more its normal for early in recovery

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 8)

about a week in stuff starts to feel like pins and needles. i thought that meant my one nipple was falling off. turns out its the opposite and its them coming back to life. the post op compression binder while annoying does help the tingling feel less weird

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 9)

you surgeon may be ripped to hell and back like mine and put the compression binder on super tight. ITS OK TO LOOSEN IT A LITTLE.

its there for compression to keep the swelling down but same rules apply as a regular binder: it might be a little uncomfortable and feel tight but you need to still be able to BREATHE

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 10)

invest in a long pair of tongs or one of those claw grabber things. i just made ramen that was in a cabinet above the microwave. how? tippy toes and tongs.

[britcision]

Top surgery tip 11)

You can buy little hair net looking guys at some major pharmacies that include shampoo and can be used to wash your hair in bed if you’re having trouble in the shower

(This is a general surgery tip but all my disabled friends swear by ‘em post surgery it makes your life much easier and you can feel properly clean)

[itsparadoxlacuna]

top surgery tip 12) it’s okay to sleep on the couch or in a chair if it’s too difficult or painful to get in and out of bed. My couch plus a pile of throw pillows on either side of me was the perfect place to sit and simmer as I recovered. I also recommend getting one of those airplane pillows that go around your neck. very useful if you end up sleeping sitting up and don’t want your neck to crick.

[tanukipost]

top surgery tip 13)

when it comes to scar care. anything is better than nothing. and you dont need to shell out hundreds of dollars for fancy scar creams. to massage your scars as long as everythings properly closed you can just grab an gentle unscented or naturally scented lotion and use that. shea butter, cocoa butter, bio oil the like. youre just looking for something for sensitive skin and thatll keep them hydrated.

[seizethegrey-deactivated2025081]

y'all really missed the boat on calling these tip top top surgery tips

[the-haiku-bot]

y'all really missed the

boat on calling these tip top

top surgery tips

Beep boop! I look for accidental haiku posts. Sometimes I mess up.

[thorstenhasenkamm]

“Bike Love“