sorry if this is too much labor 🙇🏻♀️ but could you point me to all your meta discussing the concept of morality in mdzs and specially wei ying and lan zhan’s? i wish you had an index lmao
I'm... very sorry about this and like.. taking forever I stare at these sometimes and go "hey I should answer that" and get thoroughly distracted (ADHD you strike once more) lol.
But oops here are some of the big posts and recent ones:
Wei Wuxian
One
Two
Three
Four
Five
Six
Seven
Eight
Nine
Ten
Eleven
Twelve (twelve seems like a good number to end this at for him and I like how it looks...)
Maybe it is because i've read one too many frustrated metas about the matter, but during this reread I find myself wondering where the hell are people picking up that WWX has a low image of himself/is self-deprecating. He is very bitter about his infamy and how he has been made into the source of all evil, and about his failure to achieve his goals and the way people dear to him got entangled in it all. That much is true. But… when LWJ tells him about what happened to Chang Ping, his reaction boils down to "If I were Chang Ping I wouldn't have balked at the Jin's demands. I would have hunted Xue Yang myself even if I knew that it would most likely get me killed too." And we know for a fact that's exactly the choice he made when he saved the Wen Remnants because he tells us himself during (going by EXR) chapter 8, when the narration mentions he fully understood what he was getting into back then and explains how he used Yumeng Jiang's motto to keep himself afloat through the whole ordeal. This is WWX telling us that he would make the same choice again and again! He wasn't made of stone, he did suffer through it, but he doesn't regret it all or sees himself as lesser for making the choices he did. He knew he was attempting the impossible. At the start of the novel, he's struggling with living again in a body that he doesn't yet consider his own, yes, but it would be much weirder if he didn't need some time to make peace with that.
Hi there Anon 👋🏻
Urgh, yes... Fanon!WWX with his insecurities and apparent low self-esteem… Who doesn't like to burden people with his troubles and thinks he doesn't deserve to be loved or receive help from anyone. Literally the EXACT opposite of the canon WWX we know and love 😅
I can't help but wonder if this pervasive misinterpretation stems from other adaptations. Perhaps some viewers who started with the CQL or the donghua before diving into the novel might be projecting a skewed impression onto canon!WWX, misinterpreting his actions through that lens. Of course, I know a lot of people who have come from the CQL and have an excellent understanding of the novel and its differences. It's as though some enjoyed the wacky, chaotic, suicidal dummy of the CQL so much and simply see what they want to when reading the novel instead 😅 I usually find the ones who claim he's the above are usually the same people who think WWX is "stupid," despite him being an undeniable prodigy!
Or, perhaps it really is just a genuine misinterpretation of his actions. Yes, at the beginning of the novel, WWX sometimes leans into the whole "I'm so bad and evil" persona he's been given, but that's his sense of humor shining through! He's not genuinely self-loathing; he's mocking those absurd assumptions about him. It's his personal joke, a very "WWX" way of laughing at the absurdity of it all rather than dwelling on the unfairness.
By the time he's reincarnated, I'd argue he's much less "bitter" and more at peace with his past. He's learned from it, which is why he no longer seeks revenge. We see him save everyone during the second siege, despite many of them having been present at the first siege that brought about his demise and still wish him dead a second time around! While he certainly experienced some bitterness in his first life, contributing to his mental breakdown and subsequent demise, his return in MXY's body shows a character who has processed much of that.
Sometimes, I really do wonder if people simply cannot grasp WHY WWX does what he does. This is of course the majority, but I know from first-hand experience while debating over this very mischaracterisation with some in the fandom that this really does seem to be the case... These people have outright declared they would not have done what WWX did, they would not have saved the Wen remnants or tried to help anyone else in need. And while some people might not act similarly, whether from fear or lack of confidence, it's unfair to trivialise WWX's just and heroic actions merely to excuse their own shortcomings.
It's like they can't understand why he'd jump in to help people or do what's right despite the inevitable backlash. So, instead of trying to fathom such selflessness, they justify their own lack of understanding by claiming he has "self-esteem issues." They'd rather assign him that flaw than acknowledge their own differing morals.
It's almost like people would rather say he doesn't value his own life (when we canonically SEE he does, when he declares he's about to drop Su She if no one will help him...) or feel he deserves love/affection/help (despite us seeing him readily jump at the chance of these things, if offered) than feel bad about their own lack of morals or admit their favourite side character just never offered him any help in the first place!
It's actually rather hilarious because WWX isn't the only person to jump in and save someone either... LWJ and JZX both did this (LWJ more than once) and no one ever claims they have low self-worth 🙄 And at least WWX usually has a plan whenever he does so... LWJ and JZX protected Mianmian without any means to defend themselves. They were only saved because WWX devised a plan in a dire moment.
The beauty of WWX's character is he doesn't dwell on things. He has the ability to focus on the little joys in life and adopt a positive outlook. So although he is obviously affected by all the tragedy and hardship around him, he quickly picks himself up and bounces back. Even finding himself in a strange, new body that isn't his own… he has a little moment when he sees the unfamiliar reflection looking back at him and thinks of the past and then pulls himself together. WWX doesn't spend too much time overthinking such negative things. He acknowledges it and moves on.
I do feel this is often misinterpreted as him being flippant and not caring about the suffering and unfairness he's faced - which is of course not the case. I guess it could be considered a coping mechanism… and it probably is to a certain extent. That, mixed with a personal philosophy influenced by his parents, cultural beliefs and teachings. Regardless, I don't think it's an unhealthy approach, nor does it stem from a "lack of self-worth”.
I think the "self-deprecating" label often comes from misinterpreting his sense of humour. He pokes fun at himself, his circumstances, or his infamy, but it's always in good-natured jest. Given his confident personality and positive attitude, this should be more than apparent. But if you've already misjudged him as someone with low self-worth, then his little jokes can indeed take on a much darker tone.
As you rightly say, WWX doesn't regret his actions—and he has no reason to! Even when he thought his efforts were for nothing and every single Wen remnant had been unjustly murdered, he still believed he did the right thing and would do so again… because he possesses an unwavering, strong sense of right and wrong. This makes the revelation that Wen Yuan survived all the more poignant. It made no difference to his belief that it was the right thing to do... But it offered a tangible, living testament to the goodness he fought for.
As you touched on yourself - WWX embodies the Jiang Clan motto through his unwavering commitment to doing what is right, even when the odds are stacked impossibly against him and the entire world has seemingly turned its back on him. He consistently "attempts the impossible" (or a more literal meaning of the motto courtesy of doufudanshi "do what you know you cannot") by literally doing what he knows he cannot... striving to uphold true justice and compassion in a world that often lacks both.
It really is a shame people can't just appreciate canon!WWX for what he truly is—a character who is steadfast, morally absolute, and stands by his principles, regardless of how difficult that path might be to follow ❤️
Such a great character analysis. I think Wei Wuxian is such a unique character and MXTX does such a good job on portraying his genius. His analysis and manipulations of events is often portrayed subtly rather than in an outright explanation to the reader, which I think causes some people to misinterpret his character.
I think fanon tropes also have a huge impact on character portrayal. A recent post on Twitter about fanon in general, not just MDZS, covered this trend. People take their headcanons and fanon, without any regard to canon, as truths. But what’s the point of being in a fandom when the characters are so far from themselves?
Fans: Wei WuXian avoided Lan WangJi and Jiang Cheng after his resurrection because he felt guilty about causing them pain.
Novel:
“The YiLing Patriarch had just returned to the mortal world, but the first thing he came upon was a kick and a scolding, not to mention the leftovers that served as his welcoming-meal. Where were the blood and gore? The ruthless slaughter? The absolute destruction? Who would believe him? He was like the tiger in a flatland, the dragon in shallow water, the phoenix without feathers, losing his advantage and belittled by those weaker than him.”
- MDZS, Chapter 3: Aggression-Part 1, Translation from Exiled Rebels.
At first glance, this reads like Wei WuXian’s confession—like he’s admitting to being the villain everyone in the prologue says he is. But on a second read, you will realize it’s pure sarcasm. He’s mocking how the cultivation world treats him like a monster, when all he ever did was stand by his moral principles.
Wei WuXian isn’t some guilt-ridden protagonist, endlessly regretting how his past actions caused pain and trying to “do better” in this new life. The only guilt he carries is for Jin Ling, the innocent child orphaned when he was just a month old, and Wen Yuan, the child he failed to protect. Among everyone in Wei WuXian’s old life, these two suffered without any fault of their own. Everyone else played a part in what happened. The tragedy was the consequence of their actions or, in some cases, their inactions.
He didn’t avoid Lan WangJi or Jiang Cheng because he felt guilty or hated them. Rather, he thought they hated him, which, in Jiang Cheng’s case, was true. He didn’t want to stir up old grudges or pain. Why would he bother explaining himself to people who had already labeled him the villain, never gave him a chance to tell his side, and even led forces to kill him?
Because here’s what most fans miss: Wei WuXian died. Literally. He sacrificed himself trying to save the people he cared about.
"Wei WuXian spoke, "He's been dead since a long time ago, and I've died once as well. What else do you want?"
- MDZS, Chapter 24: Malice-Part 2, Translation from Exiled Rebels
This new life is a fresh start. He’s not someone who steeps in old resentment. He lives in the now. That’s why he didn’t seek revenge or go hunting for the people from his past when he left Mo Mansion. He roamed the world, trying to find his place without dragging old grudges along.
So, the whole “guilty Wei WuXian” take? It totally misses the point. Wei WuXian doesn’t need to feel guilty—he’s the only one who was doing the right thing all along.
One of my favorite subtle moments of MDZS that I never see anyone else talk about is that section near the beginning of the book, during the Mo Manor arc, where WWX makes the active decision to help the Lan juniors
Because he takes a moment to think about it and articulates, for possibly the only time in the book (the only time I recall anyway), that he has valid reasons to hate the Lan sect - to the point that it would make sense for him to seek retribution.
The Lans were part of the ambush at Qiongqi Pass. The Lans celebrated Wen Qing and Wen Ning (really just Wen Qing but wwx doesn't know this) being burned and their ashes scattered so they could never reincarnate. The Lans declared war on WWX and the people under his protection. They participated in the raid on the burial mounds, slaughtering the elderly and the young (as far as wwx is aware. He doesn't know a-yuan was rescued) and drove wwx to his own death.
And for just that brief moment at the beginning of the book, before we the reader know any of the context, he acknowledges this. And we see him consider leaving. He could just walk away from Mo Manor. He wouldn't even be hurting anyone himself, he'd just be removing himself from the situation, leaving them to die.
But he doesn't. Because he decides that the juniors aren't responsible for the wrongdoings of their elders. They were just children when died. They've done him no wrong. So, at risk to himself, he jumps in to help.
Which, on it's own, isn't actually a huge thing? At this point in the book we still think he's a villain. So in the moment we go "so he draws the line at harming teenagers. That's interesting. Good to know" and we move on
But in retrospect? Even though WWX insinuates that he's ONLY helping the Lan juniors because they're young, and it would be a completely different story if they were adults, THIS IS NOT TRUE.
In fact, during the second raid on the burial mounds? The cultivation world AGAIN calls for his head on a platter. They blame him for things he didn't do. And then they're powerless. Powerless and under attack. and once again, wwx could just. Go. Just like at Mo Manor. Lwj still has his cultivation and his sword so they could just fly away.
But they stay. And wwx doesn't just choose to fight, he paints a lure flag on his chest and presents himself as bait. He puts his life on the line to save a group of people who celebrated his death and would happily see him dead again
So yeah. I love that moment at the beginning. He was summoned back from the dead to get revenge for Mo Xuanyu. He acknowledges that he has fair reason to seek revenge of his own. And in that moment, he tells himself that he's only helping because those teenagers, specifically, are innocent. And if they weren't teenagers he'd let them die in revenge. But he wouldn't. When put to the test he DOESN'T. Because when when Mo Xuanyu summoned the most evil person he could think of, a demon sure to seek revenge, he summoned the wrong man
"Wei Wuxian is more cautious of his ghost path in his second life." The same Wei Wuxian who summoned three fierce corpses within 48 hours of his resurrection to fight a ghost arm? The same Wei Wuxian who directly after this event went grave-digging to scrounge up some ghosts to put into talismans for later use? The same Wei Wuxian who plunges into Empathy with A-Qing despite seeing how horribly she must have died? The same Wei Wuxian who casually summons a corpse to ask it for directions????
I don't think there's a single moment in his second life where his first instinct is to use the orthodox path for anything. He even only accidentally used Siubian because he didn't have a physical body to defend himself with against Jin Guangyao in the hidden chamber. The next time he intentionally uses his sword, it's to cut up a melon.
"Wei Wuxian is more cautious of his ghost path in his second life." The same Wei Wuxian who summoned three fierce corpses within 48 hours of his resurrection to fight a ghost arm? The same Wei Wuxian who directly after this event went grave-digging to scrounge up some ghosts to put into talismans for later use? The same Wei Wuxian who plunges into Empathy with A-Qing despite seeing how horribly she must have died? The same Wei Wuxian who casually summons a corpse to ask it for directions????
I don't think there's a single moment in his second life where his first instinct is to use the orthodox path for anything. He even only accidentally used Siubian because he didn't have a physical body to defend himself with against Jin Guangyao in the hidden chamber. The next time he intentionally uses his sword, it's to cut up a melon.
I'll take this one step further: people who say that Lan Wangji was "right" about the ghost path and "Wei Wuxian understands this now," why does Lan Wangji drop the subject? It can't be because Wei Wuxian uses it less, as we literally see that not be the case. It can't be because he accepts that Wei Wuxian has "self-harming tendencies," because he gets visibly upset and admonishes Wei Wuxian for taking on Jin Ling's curse mark, even though it was non-lethal to him. Lan Wangji can be upset about the curse mark but not about a cultivation style "he believes" is slowly poisoning his beloved and will lead him to a slow and painful death? And before anyone comes with the "well Lan Wangji learns to stop being rigid about rules!" take, 1) Lan Wangji was never an unquestioning follower of the rules, 2) there is not "rule" in the cultivation world against the use of resentful energy (once again, THE NIE EXIST), and 3) why would him no longer caring about the rules make him ok watching a loved one die a completely preventable death? Wei Wuxian has a new golden core, he is a skilled fighter even without one, and Lan Wangji can protect him besides, so what would motivate him to condone Wei Wuxian's flagrant use of the ghost path and teach the juniors about it while he's at it other than the fact that he now understands that there's nothing inherently dangerous about it when used correctly?
Fandom in general is too quick to label characters as having a Savior Complex or being Self-Sacrificing without taking into account the context surrounding the characters actions. This bothers me because those labels are often used to accuse characters of being reckless and thoughtless or depressive and suicidal as if those were the only possible motivations for a character to take a risk for other.
In the MDZS fandom I've seen those labels being applied to Wei Wuxian - incorrectly - in order to diminish the weight of his choices.
Wei Wuxian wasn't Self-Sacrificing. Not anymore that his job required him to be. He wasn't someone who went around in search of a heroic death. But as a Cultivator it was his responsibility to protect people - we can compare a Cultivator to a firefighter: saving people is part of their job, and that comes with a risk, but nobody thinks firefighters are just recklessly throwing themselves at danger for nothing, or that they are stupid for not ignoring that burning building.
Cultivators are supposed to protect people from the supernatural and that's a risky job. But Wei Wuxian isn't reckless. He's actually quite thoughtful and very strategic in his approach to any adversary. He's also an excellent teacher because of his patience and analytical skills - he's the opposite of reckless, really.
One of the plot points I see people use to accuse him of being reckless and self-sacrificing is the XuanWu cave debacle. The thing is, Wei Wuxian wasn't being reckless then. He bid his time, waited to see what Wen Chao would do first. He defended MianMian not out of some sort of self-sacrificing reaction, but because his morals compelled him to do so, and he wasn't the only one. Remember, a Cultivator is supposed to follow a strict moral code. When an innocent person, MianMian, was being attacked in front of them they were supposed to help her. For those who didn't, it was a moral failing.
But more than that, Wen Chao's plan to summon the XuanWu of Slaughter was utterly stupid and was bound to get them all killed. Wen Chao was absolutely not competent enough to kill the XuanWu of Slaughter himself, and when the situation inevitably got out of control Wen Chao's cronies would still whisk him away to safety and let the hostages there to die. Wei Wuxian's choice to confront Wen Chao then wasn't reckless, it was borne from a lack of better options and knowing if they didn't make a stand then and there they would all die. It's one of those situations in which none of the options available are ideal, and you just have to choose the least worse option. Between dying without resisting and fighting for a small chance of survival, Wei Wuxian chose to fight because he wasn't stupid or suicidal, and unlike the vast majority of people in the Cultivation World, Wei Wuxian actually lived up to the moral ideal.
Another plot point I see brought up again and again against Wei Wuxian is his use of "demonic cultivation". First off, the cultivation path Wei Wuxian invented and used wasn't demonic, it was the ghost path, and that's different. Demonic cultivation implicates the use of living humans and Wei Wuxian didn't do that. He used the resentment of ghosts, and he was repeatedly shown to be very kind and compassionate toward those ghosts, but he never used humans. The only character in MDZS that practiced demonic cultivation was Xue Yang, who created living corpses.
Moreover, Wei Wuxian didn't just choose to go for a walk in the burial mounds, he was thrown there to die by Wen Chao. He invented the ghost path because of necessity and it's a testament to his strong will to survive. Personally, I've never understood people who think Wei Wuxian creating the ghost path was self destructive. Dying is easy. If he had been self-destructive, he wouldn't have made it out of the burial mounds alive. Wei Wuxian was kind and compassionate and a genius and he had a strong will to live, so he created a new path of cultivation that could get him out alive and that would allow him to keep fighting, because it was war and they were losing, and if the Wens won it would be catastrophic for the world.
After the war, Wei Wuxian chose to stand up for the Wen Remnants, and that choice wasn't reckless, it wasn't self-sacrificing and it wasn't self-destructive. The Wen Remnants represent the great moral debate in the story: what was happening to them was genocide, and doing nothing meant being complicit in it. The persecution and extermination of the Wen Remnants was the culmination of the moral corruption of that society.
Wei Wuxian's choice to stand up for the Wen Remnants wasn't reckless. He understood the consequences and made a choice with a clear head. He knew from the beginning that they were all living on borrowed time. He certainly hoped at some points that maybe some sort of more permanent truce could be worked out with the sects, but he was always aware that the chances of that were slim. His choice to protect the Wen Remnants wasn't borne out of some sort of self-sacrificing ideal either. He didn't want to die and sacrificing his life was never his go-to response to any situation. He died after having tried everything else, after being pushed into a dead end by the entire world and resisting for around two years, which is two years more than most people would be able to resist for.
His choice to protect the Wen Remnants was a matter of morality. Wei Wuxian saw a genocide happening in front of him and his conscience wouldn't allow him to walk away. That's what Wei Wuxian means when he says to Lan Wangji, during Lan Wangji's visit to Yiling:
“But, let the self judge the right and the wrong, let others decide to praise or to blame, let gains and losses remain uncommented on. I, too, know what I should and shouldn’t do.”
Wei Wuxian chose to protect the Wens because while that might cost his life, choosing otherwise would cost him everything he was as a person.
MDZS is a story about society's failings and the extermination of the Wen Remnants is the great symbol of societal corruption: they fought a war to defeat a monster, only to turn around and become the next monsters themselves. In this sense, only the outliers of society could retain their pure hearts - Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji (who was in equal parts praised and superficially respected for his morals, as well as considered too rigid for it - Lan Wangji is respected as a member of the aristocracy and as an ideal role model, but when the same morals he's praised for get in the way of sect interests he's criticized for it), there's MianMian, Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan, a-Qing too, despite her not being a cultivator. All of those highly ideal characters exist apart from society.
Yet another plot point that's often wrongly used to paint Wei Wuxian as reckless is the ambush on Qiongqi pass, where Jin Zixuan died. The thing is, it was an ambush. He didn't have a chance to plan for it. Jin Zixun had 300 archers constantly attacking Wei Wuxian. It's already quite commendable that he was able to survive, asking for great planning in this kind of situation in ridiculous and beyond what's humanly achievable.
Moreover, despite all that, Wei Wuxian still had the presence of mind to explain the situation to Jin Zixuan and warn him not to get close or else he might die. And what did Jin Zixuan do? He asked the guy being attacked to stop defending himself instead of forcing his stupid cousin to stop attacking, then proceeded to ignore Wei Wuxian's warning and got close, then died as he'd been warned would happen. In this situation, Jin Zixuan was the one who showed an appalling lack of awareness of the situation, poor tactical skill, lack of leadership skills, poor diplomacy, and reckless behavior, not Wei Wuxian.
As for the battle of Nightless City, it was an extenuating circumstance, because Wei Wuxian wasn't sound of mind at this point. He was grieving and angry and had been targeted repeatedly for over two years by then, he'd been a victim of systemic oppression and had watched friends die. Not to mention that all of it started almost immediately after a three year long war in which he'd been a frontline soldier. He wasn't alright. And yet, he wasn't the one who started the fight. He showed up there and vented verbally at the people who'd just murdered his friends, the people responsible for s genocide, the people who'd been oppressing them for over two years, and yet Wei Wuxian only used violence after being attacked first. At this point, I think he had the right to respond with full power.
But the point here is that Wei Wuxian was pushed to this place step by step. He did everything right, he chose as best as he could, but society just wouldn't give him any other option.
I guess my point with this rant is to show that labels like self-sacrificing, reckless etc. often dismiss the context in which the characters are making their choices. Sometimes there isn't an option in which everyone gets to be safe and happy, and sometimes every single choice available will pose a great risk to life, sometimes every available option the circumstances afford the characters will end with someone they care about dying. And yet, they have to choose anyway, because the world won't stop until the stars align and all the problems disappear. No matter how fucked up the circumstances are, choices still have to be made, even if it hurts.
the myth of helplessness and the “hands-tied” rhetoric for authority figures in mdzs
i’m pretty sure every one of us has seen this notion echoed around for atleast one of the clan/sect leaders when it came to their compliance and/or active participation in the wen remnants’ genocide as well as their prior lack of help/refuge for the wen remnants once wei wuxian had rescued them. while this goes beyond just the way the cultivation world’s leaders handled the aftermath of the sunshot campaign (namely, their lackadaisical approach to helping civilians, exploiting those weaker than them, etc.), i’ll start with the genocide because that’s the crux of it all. that’s the nail in the coffin, that’s the biggest proof of why i feel so fucking angry whenever i see this sentiment of excusing/justifying/or even explaining why the sect leaders did what they did.
and like most skewed interpretations of mdzs (and i don’t mean this in a haughty superior way of only MY way of reading the text being THE right way but i feel like this is something we all have noticed after traversing the fandom waters for a while), this too begins with jiang cheng.
now, let me clear: jiang cheng, in full sobriety and clarity of thought, led the siege of the burial mounds to kill a group of innocent people, which included elderly women and men and a child. you would think this should be obvious but i’ll retierate: NOTHING justifies this, nothing excuses this. the same applies to every single sect leader and sect affiliated member who went for the siege that day and participated in the killings, whether directly or indirectly. this isn’t a nuanced situation and i personally feel that a discussion that begins with the premise of muddying the culpability of the people involved in the genocide shouldn’t even be entertained because the reasons do not matter. they just don’t. it doesn’t matter that nie mingjue’s personal philosophy stemming from his upbringing and loss gave him a narrowminded view of the “wen-dogs”. it doesn’t matter that jiang cheng was sunken in grief and rage after losing his sister. it doesn’t matter that the lans were convinced of wei wuxian’s deviousness and found it paramount to put an end to him and his affialites. it doesn’t matter that some were operating on half the information because when you march into the temporary residence of your supposed foes and kill them all in cold-blood despite them being unarmed and untrained—the weight of ensuring that your violence has a meaning, a justification is on YOU! if you’re committing this act, you have to make sure you aren’t being led blindly by manipulating rumors and ideals.
even before the genocide, before the nightless city massacre, before the qiongqi path ambush—the way i’ve seen handwaving of jiang cheng’s mindset regarding the wens is a little baffling. “he had the burden of being a sect leader” “he had to protect his clan, his hands were tied!” jiang cheng wielding power and authority are often repackaged as baggage that his poor self is so tragically saddled with. it genuinely puzzles the shit out of me. have we all forgotten about “with great power comes great responsibility”?? jiang cheng’s responsibility as a cultivation sect leader goes beyond just the immediate thought about his sect and towards the cultivation world as a whole and how injustice was taking place by a fellow prominent clan. we know this is extremely important because the whole reason the sunshot campaign happened and why it came down to a war was because of prior negligence by the clans towards the congregation of power by the wens. to recognise the same methods now being employed by the jins was, infact, part of jiang cheng’s responsibility. just saving your own neck doesn’t work, when the larger picture is considered. besides, giving the wens the backing of the jiang clan would NOT have brought down instant doom upon the jiangs. that was the whole point. that was why jin guangshan felt it necessary to put ideas into his head and lead him to a path of hostility towards wei wuxian (which is still a choice jiang cheng made, mind).
also, while we’re at it, you’re telling me that the jiang clan rebuilt in part due to wei wuxian’s insane gravitational pull towards aspiring cultivators, would NOT have stood behind wei wuxian if jiang cheng had only tried? hell, i would go far as to say that some jiang disciples would have WANTED to join wei wuxian’s side. there was risk. there would be trouble. but that doesn’t mean jiang cheng had no option. the path of least resistance leads the crooked men, does it not? besides, being a leader is not about tucking tail and keeping your head down. it’s about making the difficult choices and yes, for jc, in this scenario, refusing to help the wens and wei wuxian was the easy choice.
also this whole myth about the sect leaders not being able to do anything because their clans would become targets is sort of antithetical to the whole premise of them being sect leaders in the first place. they’re the only ones who can do something with comparatively less risk to their person and those they’re “protecting” because they have the power of organisation. if the holders of authority cannot make decisive lines in the sand and push for change and resist, who can? the disciples or civilians would have an easier time opposing the clans individually or in groups, you think? they would have less to lose? (we already have an example in the form of mianmian; the waves had to be made from the top in this time-sensitive situation).
these fanon tropes originate from somewhere i know. it’s interesting to think of how these authority figures perceive their power as burdens, how the prince doesn’t want to become king but is forced into the role, how inheritances, even the ones that favour you, can feel like shackles around your neck.
but this kind of sympathetic view of the antagonists and the wrong-doers in mdzs leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because time and again, we have been shown how these sect leaders are blissfully happy to reap the fruits of their inherited power and generational wealth and are the ones most protected by the system. jiang cheng was perfectly fine being the sect leader by default and his grievance was moreso that wei wuxian wasn’t around to be his subordinate. the less that is said about jin guangshan the better. even lan xichen’s troubles didn’t come from him holding power but from his prolonged semi-wilful ignorance regarding jin guangyao. nie mingjue, while alive, used his influence to make his voice heard and condemned the wens because that was his unshakeable opinion on the matter.
now, this isn’t to say all the sect leaders were the same brand of callous and incompetent. yes, they had their problems. yes, their positions didn’t automatically make them immune to harm. but they were not the poor little burdened leaders with “pragmatic” point of views, trying to keep their boats afloat.
the ones with their hands tied were these: the lower classes in the pyramid. the ones who relied on the clans for shelter and food. the civilians whose requests for help were denied by the cultivation sects. the wen remnants who couldn’t do anything to save themselves. wen qing and wen ning. wei wuxian, whose every avenue of help was closed. mianmian. and even, imo, lan wangji.
there’s another similar notion towards wei wuxian that because he was a subordinate and because he has lesser social standing, he had more “freedom”. what ass-backwards logic is this, to be honest? when has having lesser social status, political power and monetary resources given a person more freedom? more freedom would mean that wei wuxian could do anything he wanted and go unquestioned. more freedom would mean that he would be able to practice the ghostly path without every second person accusing him of demonic activities. you know who had more freedom? the nie sect! their resentful energy dabbling went unquestioned because they had more freedom, they were protected by the reputation and might of their clan. nie mingjue’s hypocritical stance went unquestioned because he had freedom, precisely because he had more power. wei wuxian having a big personality, being flirtatious and not being a picture-perfect version of properness (he had good manners regardless) is not having more freedom. if he had that personality and no one accused him of being arrogant and if it wasn’t used against him as means to sully his reputation, then yes, that would be true freedom. this last part is probably redundant but hope the point of it was relayed. just because wei wuxian’s able to authentically be himself despite the backlash he receives for it does not make his social standing somehow a more advantageous position to be in compared to the literal leaders of the cultivation world.
in conclusion, the sect leaders did not have their hands tied by some inherent circumstance, their thrones of power were not ill-begotten curses they were trying to escape from but all the tying was done by them and their ropes which they gleefully tied around the necks of the wens to silence them forever. and if that sentence makes you uncomfortable, great. because that’s the reality of what these people did.
btw i definitely think Wei Wuxian's relationship tips are some of the worst pieces of advice in the history of ever. it's all stuff like "well based on my experience, just sitting there and yapping about whatever until the object of your affection turns red and clenches their fists and generally looks super pissed off is a great course of action. also, you should be saying the most suggestive, innuendo-laden things you can think of at all times. maybe also get them really drunk if you want to have fun at their expense. just basically be as annoying as humanly possible and you'll be irresistible!" and the problem is that it works perfectly if your name is Wei Ying and the person you are seducing is Lan Wangji, but for pretty much anyone else this is an extremely unwise course of action and if you want someone to actually be romantically interested in you in the slightest you should in fact be doing the opposite of all that
Saying the most suggestive, innuendo-laden things:
Wei WuXian assuredly threw a series of charming winks at both sides of the path, “Sister, how much for half a kilogram of loquats?”
[...]
Wei WuXian turned around, perfectly catching it, and grinned, “Sister looks even prettier!”
[...]
After the second one also landed in his hand, Wei WuXian shouted, “Sister, you’re not only pretty, but you’re nice as well. The next time I come here, I’m gonna buy a whole basket!”
The woman’s voice was vibrant, and she was more daring than the other. She pointed at Lan WangJi, “Get him to come as well. You all can come here and get them!”
Exr. 17
Making the other clench their fists and leaving them fuming:
Only after Wei WuXian exchanged a few words with them, a cheerful smile on his face, did they finally begin to calm down and respond shyly.
[...]
Lan WangJi, “What did you give them?”
Wei WuXian, “Oh. You mean that? It’s rouge.”
[...] Wei WuXian, “You have to show people your thanks when you’re asking them things, right? I wanted to give them money, but they were too scared and didn’t dare to take it. It seemed like they really liked the scent of the rouge. They had probably never used such a thing before, so I gave it to them.”
With a pause, he added, “HanGuang-Jun, why are you looking at me like this? I know that the rouge’s quality really isn’t that great. But I’m not like how I used to be, when I always had a ton of flowers and jewellery on me to give to the girls. I really don’t have anything else to give them. At least it’s better than nothing.”
Exr. 33
Just out of where are you pulling these terrible takes?
Here a few actual advices from Wei Wuxian. Starting with a lesson in invitation for a date:
“[...] If you come to Lotus Pier, you can eat lots of delicious food. I can take you to pick lotus seed pods and water chestnuts. Lan Zhan, do you wanna come?”
Lan WangJi , “No.”
Wei WuXian, “Don’t answer everything with negative words. You sound so uncaring; girls won’t like it. Let me tell you—the girls in Yunmeng look very pretty, different from the sort of pretty in Gusu.”
Exr. 18
A lesson in trust:
Wei WuXian turned around and shouted, “HanGuang-Jun, it’s up to you now. We’re gonna go ahead!”
The strings of the guqin vibrated, as if someone was saying ‘mnn’. Wei WuXian cracked up with a pfft. Lan JingYi hesitated, “That was it? You are not going to say anything else?”
Wei WuXian, “What else do you want me to do? What else should I say?”
Lan JingYi, “Why did you two not say ‘I’m worried about you. I’m staying!’, ‘Go!’, ‘No! I’m not going! If I’m going, you’re going with me!’? Is it not a must?”
Wei WuXian was left open-mouthed, “Who taught you this? Who told you that this sort of conversation must happen? It’d sound fine out of my mouth, but can you even imagine your HanGuang-Jun say such things?”
The Lan Sect’s juniors chorused, “No…”
Wei WuXian, “Right? It’s a waste of time. I believe that someone as reliable as HanGuang-Jun will definitely be able to deal with it. I can just focus on my own things and either wait for him to find me or go find him myself.”
Exr. 38 (emphasis mine)
A lesson in reciprocity:
The woman, “The watermelon we gave you. Was it good?”
Wei WuXian realized, “So you were the ones who gave us the watermelon. It was delicious! Why didn’t you come in and sit? We could’ve poured you some tea!”
The woman smiled, “You lot weren’t there when we visited, so we left without going in. I’m glad to hear it tasted good!”
Wei WuXian, “Thank you!” He fished out a couple of big seed pods from the bottom of the boat, “Here are some lotus seed pods. Next time you visit, come and watch me train!”
Jiang Cheng snorted, “Would anyone want to watch you train?”
Wei WuXian threw the seed pods toward the shore. It was a far distance, but they landed lightly in the women’s hands. He grabbed a few more and stuffed them into Jiang Cheng’s arms, shoving, “What are you doing, just standing there? Hurry up.”
After a few shoves, Jiang Cheng could only accept them, “Hurry up and do what?”
Wei WuXian, “You ate the watermelon too, so you also have to return the gift, don’t you? Here, here, don’t be embarrassed. Start throwing, start throwing.”
Jiang Cheng snorted again, “You must be joking. What’s there to be embarrassed about?” Whatever he said, however, even after all of the shidi began to throw seed pods, he still didn’t start to move. Wei WuXian urged, “Then throw some! If you throw some this time, next time you can ask them if the seed pods tasted good, and you’ll be able to make conversation again!”
The shidi were in awe, “So that’s why! What a lesson. You have so much experience with these things, Shixiong!”
Exr. Lotus Seed Pod Extra (emphasis mine)
While Jiang Cheng floundered his dates to the point of being blacklisted in all of Yunmeng. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i think one of the most wonderful traits of wei wuxian is how socially competent he is, which is why it always annoys me if he is mischaracterized as someone who is unaware about how those around him feel, just because of the way his relationship with lan wangji pans out in the books. the dynamic between them was extremely multifaceted and what seemed obvious to us was very rightfully NOT obvious to wei wuxian and he hardly had time to sort those feelings out, given the kind of harrowing ordeals he was going through. but that aside–the way wei wuxian’s “social competence” manifests isn’t just social courage–in that, the risk of embarassment or self-consciousness doesn’t stop his self expression–or just his general forwardness and social butterfly tendencies but also–and imo, most importantly–his perceptiveness and astute reading of people around him which comes from a deep understanding of the human social element, at the individual and the societal level.
he has full awareness of how his station is looked down upon in the cultivation world and so while others in his situation may bend or break–wei wuxian cleverly toes the line between the two until taking a stance becomes necessary. he deeply understands the ugly dynamics running within the jiang family and clan and acts accordingly–be it his prompt efforts to placate jiang cheng or his conscious silence when madame yu is in a mood or even his acceptance of the whipping in lieu of restoring stability for the clan. despite his personal biases against jin zixuan, he can recognise his bravery. even his scandalous move to begin undressing in the cave shows that he knows exactly what would make lan wangji tick.
hell, i’d say even his initial thought about how the resentment of the dead can be redirected towards a target shows his striking comprehension of how emotions work in general. what’s more, he’s able to recognise the machinations nie huaisang had employed and he was also aware of the bigger picture associated with how fickle and easily swayed mob mentality was when everyone took part in bashing jin guangyao when certain truths came to light. when he was first brought back to life, he quickly and correctly deduced what kind of life mo xuanyu must have led and how he could act in order to easily humiliate the mo family. he empathised with jin ling and yet realised how he was brought up left something to be desired and so, tried to inculcate some of his own highly regarded values to him.
the deft manner in which he handled the juniors speaks for itself–a good teacher will always have good communication skills and wei wuxian went above and beyond just “good”. his people skills on nighthunts are extremely helpful–his ability to make tongues loose simply by charming people is highlighted more than once. just off the top of my head–him politely appealing to jin guangshan about the wen remnants and apologising for “intruding”, him readily handing in his sword at the indoctrination camps, him suggesting to jiang cheng that he should leave the clan once he was at the burial mounds–all of this (and much much more) demonstrates wei wuxian’s competence at guaging complex social dynamics, which is why, when he goes against the current and stands firm, it is a deliberate, well thought out decision, one made after considering the risks and repercussions, and that makes wei wuxian’s stance at the end that much more powerful. he is not stumbling his way through life, is not unheeding of his social status, is not a “mad genius with poor social skills”. hell, i would say wei wuxian’s ability to see straight through people is more impressive than even his insane intellect and to reduce that aspect of him feels like a disservice to his character. because when it comes down to it, the fact of the matter is that the murky social world through wei wuxian’s lens is actually astonishingly clear.
One thing that I really do love about SVSSS, is the way that Shen Yuan, made "Shen Qingqiu" not Shen Jiu, his self identity. Even at the start when he refuses to be unnecessarily cruel to a child due to his own moral standing and that alone had already changed the entire trajectory of the original plot. The system itself is an interesting mechanism for some of his own hesitation and denial for how he has altered PIDW by making Shen Qingqiu in a separate individual from Shen Jiu. Because it doesn't force him to make any choices he himself may be against, but to find solutions for his individuality to be maintained.
It lays the exact same scenarios from the beginning for Shen Yuan to be Shen Jiu. He desperately (and badly) tries to play that part while it lets him alter the world around him, from the very moment he entered it, fully unaware what his individualism is already doing.
His kindness is what makes Luo Binghe begin to cherish Shen Qingqiu and have hope again, despite all his blustering about manipulating things so Luo Binge won't eventually kill him. His kindness in keeping Liu Qingge is what makes Liu Qingge loyal to see him live as well. His kindness is what makes Yue Qingyuan tell Shen Qingqiu he can't die with any regrets. Even when he first sacrifices himself for Luo Binghe it's out of his own want to not see Luo Binghe become the blackened version within PIDW who had no hope once his mother had died. By the end he stands by this individuality by telling Yue Qingyuan he is Shen Qingqiu, not Xiao Jiu. Not only for his individuality to be acknowledged, but for Yue Qingyuan to be at peace with his regrets, yet he was still able to make a long lasting and strong friendship.
Shen Qingqiu also makes deeper relationships that are his own, nothing resembling what the original Shen Jiu had and ultimately died not having, due to Shen Yuan's determination to maintain individuality in that world. Even with the penultimate reveal of Shen Jiu's origins, Shen Qingqiu's focus of intent is for Yue Qingyuan (the one who has become his friend he trusts above all) and Luo Binghe (the one he fell in love with and tried to protect above all else) and not, Shen Jiu, the man he was supposed to have been in plot, and the deepest acknowledgment that the character of Shen Qingqiu's individualism.
I think there is something interesting in Jin Ling not taking Zidian, the legacy not of Yunmeng Jiang, but of Madam Yu and the ideals she raised Jiang Cheng on, and him literally shoving it back to Jiang Cheng. To stand up with other boys and Wei Wuxian despite the extreme circumstances and impossibility of surviving but choosing to fight and potentially die facing that threat.
Yunmeng Jiang's legacy lives in two orphans for all intents and purposes that aren't even heirs to its seat in Wei Wuxian and Jin Ling, whose tie as family metaphorical and biological was with Jiang Yanli of Yunmeng Jiang. While Jiang Cheng still lives in the shadow of what his mother expected him to be with the ideals she instilled in him.
Wei Wuxian is one of the best characters in mdzs. He is, unfortunately, also one of the most misunderstood characters in mdzs. I will be compiling all of his fanon tropes so that readers will be able to differentiate the canon from fanon.
Wei Wuxian did the Golden Core Transfer purely out of love.
Wei Wuxian was favoured by Jiang Fengmian. (+ this, this.)
Wei Wuxian doesn't know how to take care of himself.
Wei Wuxian is oblivious. (+ this, this, this, this.)
Wei Wuxian was adopted into the Jiang family. (+ this.)
Wei Wuxian harms the dead. (+ this.)
Wei Wuxian was not mistreated by the Jiangs. (+ this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this.)
Wei Wuxian did not help the Jiang Clan after the war.
Wei Wuxian is an alcoholic.
Wei Wuxian regrets what he did to save the Wens.
Wei Wuxian is always thinking about Lotus Pier.
Wei Wuxian wants to reunite with Jiang Cheng during his second life. (+ this, this, this.)
Wei Wuxian is physically weak without his golden core.
Wei Wuxian tortured every single Wen in the Supervisory Office.
Wei Wuxian refuses to accept help from everyone around him. (+ this, this.)
Wei Wuxian thinks Lan Wangji hates him. (+ this.)
Wei Wuxian views the Jiangs through rose colored lenses.
Wei Wuxian never told anyone that he was thrown into the Burial Mounds.
Wei Wuxian is a people pleaser. (+ this.)
Wei Wuxian is seen as an equal / respected by Jiang Cheng.
Wei Wuxian is privileged.
Wei Wuxian's cultivation is demonic cultivation. (+ this, this, this.)
Wei Wuxian is ashamed of his cultivation.
Wei Wuxian's memory is bad.
Wei Wuxian has a hero complex.
Disclaimer, none of these posts belong to me. I suggest reading all of the wonderful posts of the users that I have listed down because they are quite good to read. I'm just listing down all the fanon tropes, pet-peeves, misconceptions, gripes, or horrible takes out there in the fandom in mdzs for my own reference and perhaps everyone out there who needs it.
If there are any more things that I have missed, please don't hesitate to share 😊🙏. I have unfortunately reached the limit for this post and will have to add to a separate post if there are more fanon takes.
I don't think any protagonist can ever top Wei 'Yiling Laozu' Wuxian. No one is doing it like him. He is an icon. He can shoot arrows blindfolded. He is a prankster. He falls for a boy and decides immediately that he must have said boy's attention on him at all time. He is necromancer exacting his vengeance. He is just three years old. He is a flirt. He has his first kiss in his twenties. He does not remember your name. He does remember that one song his crush sang to him in a cave when he was injured and feverish. He is a sunshine boy. He survived the hell of hells. He died and was unhappily brought back to life. He's the bizarre genius, the miraculous hero, the force of the rebellion, the flower that blooms alone. He walks the single plank bridge alone. He is the awesome gay uncle who knows everything. He is a pretty boy. He is the most moral, steadfast person you know. He is just a man throwing flowers to his love. He rips his hard won talent out to repay a debt that never was. He is a sister's boy. He is an abuse survivor. He is an urban legend. He is one of the most handsome men of his time. He has so much trauma. He plants children like radishes. He threw the arrow he was shot with from a rooftop and killed someone. He is a talented musician. He is a scheming fox. He can drink you under the table. He is so fucking tired of this bullshit. He has probably long since burned his tastebuds with the spice he puts in his food. He is broke. He kisses skeletons on their hands in gratitude. He confesses his deep, abiding love in the middle of being held hostage. He attempts the impossible and succeeds. He is an untamed hero, standing against a world condemning the innocent. He is everything.
I first started mdzs with the manhua and then watched the donghua and then finally read the novel,
I always had a strong dislike jc's character especially after he refused to help the wens, yeah that was the moment I decided he is just an asshole and just overall there was nothing special about him but after I read the novel I absolutely hated him cuz this guy is an abuser as well amd his attitude is so much worse.
Falling into fanon misinterpretations is common, I would admit I did fall for some of them too but after I read the novel I realized how wrong the they were and that it couldn't be further from the truth and that is when I started searching for good meta blogs and thankfully found blogs that actually have great and accurate analysis cuz there are a lot of people that just spread misinterpretations more than analyzing the actual media.
I think most people don't pay much attention to the text and they are too attached to the fanon to register canon, in their mind jc is the best jiujiu and lxc an angel and wwx the oblivious guy and they don't wanna and refuse to look further than that, also people might not know what a good media analysis looks like and that's why they end up following those popular blogs that fuel these fanons and bad readings even more.
And this is why paying attention, understanding media and finding trustworthy sources is important cuz if you lack common understanding of text and ongoing themes of the story it is easy to fall for fanon this is why pay attention to fandom discussions usually the only that actually give good reasoning and provide text evidence and not just some made up headcanon, cuz it helps you learn more as well.
Love being called illiterate for saying a lack of morals a character has is a ridiculous thing to try to defend.
"So you're wanting him to sacrifice as well!?"
Well yes... yes, because that's how relationship and hardships work... you have to give in order to gain and hold on to things you care about or feel strongly about. It's a very moralistic failing to try to deny empathy and kindness because it's hard on you personally, no matter how many times you try to call the other "loyal, filial, loving, honorable" of their own, when everything they do is contrary to your defense you are making, and it makes that character's negative traits all the more apparent because the defense is not adding up to what they have done.
For each "positive" you try to claim for them there are passages upon passages directly shooting that down and in a much worse light.
Still not over the absolute poetry of how MDZS handles resentment.
Something the story keeps building up is an idea that carrying resentment is bad, but the sheer deftness of how MXTX deals with this keeps amazing me.
There’s this ongoing theme about the dangers of resentment that is expressed in multiple ways. Claims about using resentful energy being an unorthodox path that will inevitably lead to ruin and use of that energy damaging the wielder’s mind and heart. The atrocities keeping grudges can lead to. The personal value of letting go of things weighing down someone’s heart.
WWX, the first person to develop a cultivation path based on resentful energy, is one of the least resentful characters in the story. He doesn’t take things lying down and he’ll get angry in the moment, but after things are over, he just…moves on. He doesn’t hold onto his grudges against the Wens. He doesn’t hold onto his grudges against the sects. He doesn’t want some protracted revenge. He just moves on.
On the other hand, the antagonists are the ones who nurture their resentment and their grudges. JGY remembers all the wrongs done to him, big and small, until he finally gets an opportunity for revenge, often drawing in innocent people to use and discard along the way. XY nurses his grudges until he can disproportionately return them – an entire clan for a pinky, an entire temple for capturing him. JC, not satisfied with the siege, keeps torturing and killing WWX by proxy for thirteen years. The sects, similarly not satisfied with winning the war, want to return everything they suffered and more until they finally decide to eradicate the remaining Wens entirely.
The contrast here just keeps inspiring. The story initially sets us up to believe that WWX is bad because he used resentful energy and it corrupted him. Then it twists around to say that no, while resentment is a corrupting force, what corrupts isn’t cultivating with resentful energy, it’s cultivating resentment within your own heart. And this is why it’s so important that WWX can and does use resentful energy, can develop a whole path based on it, without being corrupted himself – his heart remains pure.
The fantasy element – the resentful energy – is not the true danger. The real danger of corruption comes from the human element.
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