I don't know anything.

I read mdzs and love cats • they/them Wei Wuxian is our moral ideal

[mxtxfanatic]

"Wei Wuxian is more cautious of his ghost path in his second life." The same Wei Wuxian who summoned three fierce corpses within 48 hours of his resurrection to fight a ghost arm? The same Wei Wuxian who directly after this event went grave-digging to scrounge up some ghosts to put into talismans for later use? The same Wei Wuxian who plunges into Empathy with A-Qing despite seeing how horribly she must have died? The same Wei Wuxian who casually summons a corpse to ask it for directions????

I don't think there's a single moment in his second life where his first instinct is to use the orthodox path for anything. He even only accidentally used Siubian because he didn't have a physical body to defend himself with against Jin Guangyao in the hidden chamber. The next time he intentionally uses his sword, it's to cut up a melon.

[mxtxfanatic]

I'll take this one step further: people who say that Lan Wangji was "right" about the ghost path and "Wei Wuxian understands this now," why does Lan Wangji drop the subject? It can't be because Wei Wuxian uses it less, as we literally see that not be the case. It can't be because he accepts that Wei Wuxian has "self-harming tendencies," because he gets visibly upset and admonishes Wei Wuxian for taking on Jin Ling's curse mark, even though it was non-lethal to him. Lan Wangji can be upset about the curse mark but not about a cultivation style "he believes" is slowly poisoning his beloved and will lead him to a slow and painful death? And before anyone comes with the "well Lan Wangji learns to stop being rigid about rules!" take, 1) Lan Wangji was never an unquestioning follower of the rules, 2) there is not "rule" in the cultivation world against the use of resentful energy (once again, THE NIE EXIST), and 3) why would him no longer caring about the rules make him ok watching a loved one die a completely preventable death? Wei Wuxian has a new golden core, he is a skilled fighter even without one, and Lan Wangji can protect him besides, so what would motivate him to condone Wei Wuxian's flagrant use of the ghost path and teach the juniors about it while he's at it other than the fact that he now understands that there's nothing inherently dangerous about it when used correctly?

[questionabletimedescisions]

Going out on a limb to guess that some people might have begun to equate Wei Wuxian admitting he might’ve gone too far when getting his revenge against Wen Chao & co with the usual “gui dao is bad” lies that got perpetuated with the existence of the adaptations. And ignoring that the previous statement was about revenge, not the tool he used. Plus a general mix of both ignorance of how the genre tropes work (all that spitting blood) creating headcanon. And finally (totally admitting to this one) mixing up the adaptations with the source and being too damn lazy to check.

[mxtxfanatic]

I think a lot of people go into the story believing it’s supposed to be a redemption arc and leave it never understanding that the story is tricking us as much as the title is. Wei Wuxian wasn’t a demonic cultivator nor did he create it. His story is not a redemption, it’s a vindication. Wei Wuxian going, “wow, maybe i went too far. I was sooooo pretentious as a teen/young adult,” is a red herring for us as the readers who don’t know yet why he did any of that. We spend most of the novel bumbling through why tf Wei Wuxian seems to have lost his mind and, just like Lan Wangji, settle on “trauma” or “resentful energy” broke him, only to discover that it was actually all an act to make sure nobody discovered his biggest secret (and also, the rest of the world was corrupt and describing his most mundane actions in the most negative light, anyways.)

Adaptation mixup as it’s own thing is definitely true, though. People muddying the waters of what originates from what source has made for a lot of unpleasant novel discourse.

[weiwuxianismybae]

"Madam Yu is such a tragic character😣" Huh? "Stuck in a loveless marriage😣😣" Huh?? The one she herself demanded and forced upon the man that wasn't interested in her all because she thought he was in love with another woman? That marriage you mean?? Yeah, truly a tragedy for Jiang Fengmian her.

"She didn't abuse her disciples! She only wanted them to be strong!" The woman that was never home, always away on some night-hunt, the one that refused the appropriate title of 'Madam Jiang' and didn't pull her share of leading a clan. So caring! What a leader! I must have missed the paragraph in the novel explaining how she — while away — was always there in spirit, guiding disciples. Not like Jiang Fengmian, always there and instilling the clan's motto and all.

[oneeyedoctogod]

TAG GAME - 10 People I'd Like to Know Better

Tagged by @naamah-beherit, thank you very much! :D

Last Song: Everybody Knows by Wild Fire

Last Book: ... That one's a little complicated because I read like quite a few books at the same time (on account of them being translated chapter by chapter). So the last book I read is Welcome To The Nightmare Live by Sang Wo and translated by 98novels. My memory is kind of fucked so I'm not sure what was the last book I finished. It was probably So Witches We Became by Jill Baguchinsky

Last Movie: Promising Young Woman

Last Game: Rune Factory 5 (I was in the mood for some farming and jrpg shenanigans after getting my heart crushed by the two Nier games xD)

Last TV Show: Marianne

Sweet/Spicy/Savoury: All three, just not too strong :P

Relationship: Single!

Favourite Colour: Black

Last Internet Search: I usually wouldn't be able to tell you, but this time I remember x) It was stuff about escalators in French because I was helping a friend with their French studies and didn't want to say stupid stuff on accident.

Tagging: @admirableadmiranda, @madnessofthemuses, @grewlikefancyflowers, @jiangwanyinscatmom, @welgansheer (one might say I know you quite well already, but hey it's a good opportunity to know you EVEN BETTER!!)

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Why thank you Coré!

Last Song: ... Walk-Pantera

Last Book: Volume 3 of Peerless at the moment!

Last Movie: LORD OF THE RINGS!!!! Specifically, just for Billy Boyd's Pippin

Last Game: Silent Hill 2 remake, because I wasn't traumatized enough at 10 when I first played it (I FINISHED ONE ENDING!!!!). Genshin, l need my fix of staring at my neuvifuri ship every other day

Last TV Show: Apothecary Diaries (Maomao is precious and unhinged as always)

Sweet/Spicy/Savoury:

Relationship: Single

Favourite Colour: Light grayish blue

Last Internet Search: Bye Felicia gif.... I was talking to my mother... and it was a very important gif to use

Tagging: @sienne-k @chai-chahiye-yr @mxtxfanatic @halenhusky309 @preludianstaves @cannibalgremlin!

[chai-chahiye-yr]

For once I’m gonna remember and do one of these!

Hello Orion ❤️

Last Song: mostly looping through my favs from coke studio season 15

Here’s one! It’s a banger XD (and has subtitles in English too)

Last Book: Young Again. Link

Last Movie: Snowpiercer (2013) I knew it was another dystopian film but it really was so fun. And just a well made movie. Would recommend if you like action movies with a simple yet solid plot.

Last Game: Genshin Impact. My characters still suckkkkk and are so annoying to level up.

Last TV Show: Honestly I think Critical Role should count (¬_¬) those mini series are entire stories unto themselves. But that or Story of Pearl Girl.

Sweet/spicy/savoury: chatkhara :p

Favourite colour: I have a lot of pink clothes right now but most of my room is blue lol.

Last Internet Search: How to pass the driving licence test 😅

Tagging @mathi-cql @fireandgrimstone @randomness-is-my-order @rynne @bapha @chronic-dreamer

[randomness-is-my-order]

This made me go down a Coke Studio rabbit hole and I just realised that I’ve heard this song’s clips for a while now and today, I learned of the source so thanks for that!

Last Song: Back To Me by The Rose

Last Book: Currently almost done with Greta & Valdin buuuut the last book I finished would be The God of Small Things.

Last Movie: Rewatched Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gum for like the bajillionth time.

Last Game: Honkai Star Rail. I haven’t touched it in months though—don’t play games all that much.

Last TV Show: Grace and Frankie. I LOVEEEE these two ladies so much.

Sweet/spicy/savoury: Spicy! Spicy! Never not spicy!

Favourite color: Light cyan-ish shade.

Last Internet Search: Looked up a Greek letter so I could copy-paste it into a Word doc, lol.

This was fun, thanks for tagging!

I’m tagging @optimisticmiraclefest @lezleonardo @dephoraowo @factsilike @thischickiswack @lavender-phoenix-flames

[dephoraowo]

Ahh, thanks for tagging me @randomness-is-my-order!

Last Song: God Help the Outcasts - The Hunchback of Notre Dame

Last Book: I was going to read Percy Jackson Wrath of the Triple Goddess, but then I heard a lot of bad reviews concerning the characterisation in the book, so I decided maybe not. So the last book I read would be Mo Dao Zu Shi XD. That book forever changed my entire life, I'll never read another book the same way ever again.

Last Movie: The Lion King

Last Game: I actually play multiple games at once using different devices XD. Yes, I am crazy. That would be Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, Infinity Nikki, Sky: Children of the Light, and Wuthering Waves.

Last TV Show: Arcane

Sweet/Spicy/Savoury: Usually savoury and spicy, if I am feeling down, I would get some cold drinks.

Favourite Colour: Black and red (Because of Wei Wuxian, because it's a sexy colour).

Last Internet Search: How to build Castorice (I'm gonna pull for her just because she uses a scythe)

I'm tagging @yingandzhan @factsilike @lancabbage @ninjakk @annalacerda17 @myblurryreality @jiangchengneedstherapy @petirrojo57 @rkivees @weiwuxianismybae @withthewindinherfootsteps @yllzboohcultivationworld

[weiwuxianismybae]

Thanks for tagging me and sorry in advance as I would not be tagging anyone as this is nerve-wracking enough for me.

Last Song: Bouncy by Ateez (tho I'm a Stay)

Last Book: Daughter of the Moon Goddess by Sue Lynn Tan. I actually don't like this book, but I'm rereading it to finally finish this stupid duology. But the actual book last book that I finished and would recommend is Howl's Moving Castle.

Last Movie: I don't know honestly, I don't really watch movies. The last one I remember is Deadpool & Wolverine.

Last Game: Sudoku. I'm not really a gamer. I literally only have 3 mobile games on my phone (Sudoku being one of them).

Last TV Show: Does Last Week Tonight count? I'm lately (past few years) not really into any shows. They require to much time investment that I just don't have due to my studies.

Sweet/Spicy/Savoury: All three! Though, not too sweet and I'm still working on my spice tolerance.

Favourite Colour: Purple! Yellow is a close second, which is great as these two are complimentary colours.

Last Internet Search: A Madman's Diary by Lu Xun.

[randomness-is-my-order]

the myth of helplessness and the “hands-tied” rhetoric for authority figures in mdzs

i’m pretty sure every one of us has seen this notion echoed around for atleast one of the clan/sect leaders when it came to their compliance and/or active participation in the wen remnants’ genocide as well as their prior lack of help/refuge for the wen remnants once wei wuxian had rescued them. while this goes beyond just the way the cultivation world’s leaders handled the aftermath of the sunshot campaign (namely, their lackadaisical approach to helping civilians, exploiting those weaker than them, etc.), i’ll start with the genocide because that’s the crux of it all. that’s the nail in the coffin, that’s the biggest proof of why i feel so fucking angry whenever i see this sentiment of excusing/justifying/or even explaining why the sect leaders did what they did.

and like most skewed interpretations of mdzs (and i don’t mean this in a haughty superior way of only MY way of reading the text being THE right way but i feel like this is something we all have noticed after traversing the fandom waters for a while), this too begins with jiang cheng.

now, let me clear: jiang cheng, in full sobriety and clarity of thought, led the siege of the burial mounds to kill a group of innocent people, which included elderly women and men and a child. you would think this should be obvious but i’ll retierate: NOTHING justifies this, nothing excuses this. the same applies to every single sect leader and sect affiliated member who went for the siege that day and participated in the killings, whether directly or indirectly. this isn’t a nuanced situation and i personally feel that a discussion that begins with the premise of muddying the culpability of the people involved in the genocide shouldn’t even be entertained because the reasons do not matter. they just don’t. it doesn’t matter that nie mingjue’s personal philosophy stemming from his upbringing and loss gave him a narrowminded view of the “wen-dogs”. it doesn’t matter that jiang cheng was sunken in grief and rage after losing his sister. it doesn’t matter that the lans were convinced of wei wuxian’s deviousness and found it paramount to put an end to him and his affialites. it doesn’t matter that some were operating on half the information because when you march into the temporary residence of your supposed foes and kill them all in cold-blood despite them being unarmed and untrained—the weight of ensuring that your violence has a meaning, a justification is on YOU! if you’re committing this act, you have to make sure you aren’t being led blindly by manipulating rumors and ideals.

even before the genocide, before the nightless city massacre, before the qiongqi path ambush—the way i’ve seen handwaving of jiang cheng’s mindset regarding the wens is a little baffling. “he had the burden of being a sect leader” “he had to protect his clan, his hands were tied!” jiang cheng wielding power and authority are often repackaged as baggage that his poor self is so tragically saddled with. it genuinely puzzles the shit out of me. have we all forgotten about “with great power comes great responsibility”?? jiang cheng’s responsibility as a cultivation sect leader goes beyond just the immediate thought about his sect and towards the cultivation world as a whole and how injustice was taking place by a fellow prominent clan. we know this is extremely important because the whole reason the sunshot campaign happened and why it came down to a war was because of prior negligence by the clans towards the congregation of power by the wens. to recognise the same methods now being employed by the jins was, infact, part of jiang cheng’s responsibility. just saving your own neck doesn’t work, when the larger picture is considered. besides, giving the wens the backing of the jiang clan would NOT have brought down instant doom upon the jiangs. that was the whole point. that was why jin guangshan felt it necessary to put ideas into his head and lead him to a path of hostility towards wei wuxian (which is still a choice jiang cheng made, mind).

also, while we’re at it, you’re telling me that the jiang clan rebuilt in part due to wei wuxian’s insane gravitational pull towards aspiring cultivators, would NOT have stood behind wei wuxian if jiang cheng had only tried? hell, i would go far as to say that some jiang disciples would have WANTED to join wei wuxian’s side. there was risk. there would be trouble. but that doesn’t mean jiang cheng had no option. the path of least resistance leads the crooked men, does it not? besides, being a leader is not about tucking tail and keeping your head down. it’s about making the difficult choices and yes, for jc, in this scenario, refusing to help the wens and wei wuxian was the easy choice.

also this whole myth about the sect leaders not being able to do anything because their clans would become targets is sort of antithetical to the whole premise of them being sect leaders in the first place. they’re the only ones who can do something with comparatively less risk to their person and those they’re “protecting” because they have the power of organisation. if the holders of authority cannot make decisive lines in the sand and push for change and resist, who can? the disciples or civilians would have an easier time opposing the clans individually or in groups, you think? they would have less to lose? (we already have an example in the form of mianmian; the waves had to be made from the top in this time-sensitive situation).

these fanon tropes originate from somewhere i know. it’s interesting to think of how these authority figures perceive their power as burdens, how the prince doesn’t want to become king but is forced into the role, how inheritances, even the ones that favour you, can feel like shackles around your neck.

but this kind of sympathetic view of the antagonists and the wrong-doers in mdzs leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because time and again, we have been shown how these sect leaders are blissfully happy to reap the fruits of their inherited power and generational wealth and are the ones most protected by the system. jiang cheng was perfectly fine being the sect leader by default and his grievance was moreso that wei wuxian wasn’t around to be his subordinate. the less that is said about jin guangshan the better. even lan xichen’s troubles didn’t come from him holding power but from his prolonged semi-wilful ignorance regarding jin guangyao. nie mingjue, while alive, used his influence to make his voice heard and condemned the wens because that was his unshakeable opinion on the matter.

now, this isn’t to say all the sect leaders were the same brand of callous and incompetent. yes, they had their problems. yes, their positions didn’t automatically make them immune to harm. but they were not the poor little burdened leaders with “pragmatic” point of views, trying to keep their boats afloat.

the ones with their hands tied were these: the lower classes in the pyramid. the ones who relied on the clans for shelter and food. the civilians whose requests for help were denied by the cultivation sects. the wen remnants who couldn’t do anything to save themselves. wen qing and wen ning. wei wuxian, whose every avenue of help was closed. mianmian. and even, imo, lan wangji.

there’s another similar notion towards wei wuxian that because he was a subordinate and because he has lesser social standing, he had more “freedom”. what ass-backwards logic is this, to be honest? when has having lesser social status, political power and monetary resources given a person more freedom? more freedom would mean that wei wuxian could do anything he wanted and go unquestioned. more freedom would mean that he would be able to practice the ghostly path without every second person accusing him of demonic activities. you know who had more freedom? the nie sect! their resentful energy dabbling went unquestioned because they had more freedom, they were protected by the reputation and might of their clan. nie mingjue’s hypocritical stance went unquestioned because he had freedom, precisely because he had more power. wei wuxian having a big personality, being flirtatious and not being a picture-perfect version of properness (he had good manners regardless) is not having more freedom. if he had that personality and no one accused him of being arrogant and if it wasn’t used against him as means to sully his reputation, then yes, that would be true freedom. this last part is probably redundant but hope the point of it was relayed. just because wei wuxian’s able to authentically be himself despite the backlash he receives for it does not make his social standing somehow a more advantageous position to be in compared to the literal leaders of the cultivation world.

in conclusion, the sect leaders did not have their hands tied by some inherent circumstance, their thrones of power were not ill-begotten curses they were trying to escape from but all the tying was done by them and their ropes which they gleefully tied around the necks of the wens to silence them forever. and if that sentence makes you uncomfortable, great. because that’s the reality of what these people did.

[chai-chahiye-yr]

Honestly if your ‘analysis’ of a character doesn’t go beyond

“you don’t understand that this is a deeply hurt and broken person”

and ends with

“And this is why you can’t say anything bad about them”

Then that’s a bad analysis at best and calling it that is being nice.

“This character has abused kids/taken advantage of women/killed the powerless marginalised people/abused their own power to get their way/etc”

But

“They are a deeply hurt and broken person so it’s fine, they’re just lashing out, they don’t mean it, in my hypothetical scenario they were nice so this actually means they were secretly nice all along, THEY’RE THE VICTIM HERE, don’t look at the victims made by their hands”

Is such a ludicrous way of thinking when analysing a piece of fiction.

This is not analysis. It’s personal fanfiction being posited as analysis because it says that if this character which did terrible things was in a different story then in my mind, they would be the hero. How completely pointless. And also untrue.

If a character when pushed lashes out at the weak and powerless, then it would not matter what story you put them in. Even if it’s a coffee shop AU, they would lash out at whoever they could.

Stop reacting as if people are hating on real human beings when criticising characters as if they all have secret inner lives and eventually grow up and change and not as if they’re fixed fictional creations used as a literary tool to tell a story.

[randomness-is-my-order]

i feel like one of the subtler bits of wei wuxian’s characterisation that is sometimes slightly skewed is that he is actually not the jump-into-the-heat-of-battle kinda guy, rather he’s one to hang back and observe before making a very clear and decisive move. look at the xuanwu cave predicament—wei wuxian did not immediately oppose wen chao, instead he stayed put as things escalated and once he realised how futile the situation was, he enacted a plan that was neither impulsive nor self-serving, but one that was optimal to benefit the most amount of people possible. similarly, he wasn’t pushed or blinded by his anger when wang lingjao came to lotus pier. even then, at the cost of himself (which imo, was much more calculated than people give him credit for but i digress), he chose de-escalation. same goes for the appeal he made to jin guangshan about the labor camps and same goes for every single instance of wei wuxian working his nighthunting and info-gathering knowledge to use before even approaching a danger-zone/haunt.

yes, wei wuxian is incredibly powerful and is formidable in battle but he’s not some violence-loving, battle-smug individual who would try to jump into the thick of things to flaunt his fighting prowess. the moments that people refer to as wei wuxian jumping the gun—the nightless city massacre, the ambush fight, opposing wen chao—are, infact, proof of how the battle is thrust to wei wuxian instead of wei wuxian thrusting himself into a battle. i would say that maybe the only example of wei wuxian getting heated into action is when he punched jin zixuan and even jin zixuan would agree to deserving those fists. i guess the reason i bring this up is because this sort of undermines another characteristic of wei wuxian which is his impeccable emotional regulation. if he was angered by every unjust circumstance and lost his wits about him as some of the popular fanon believes, wei wuxian would’ve never gotten as far as he did. it was because of his keen sense of seeing the truth in people and situations and then adjusting his own responses that helped him save himself and the wens for as long as he did and later stand tall before the cultivation world and show them the flaws in their mob logic. he’s not an emotionless man carefully tailoring his personality to suit his needs but he’s also not a emotionally volatile person pouncing at every opportunity to talk with fists instead of words. he’s as good at verbal sparring as he is at the physical counterpart of it and it’s always a bummer when his intellectual battles are reduced in favour of portraying him a certain, canonically divergent way.

[allikittkatt]

Silly meme lol

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Why do so many fanfics have wangxian act so shameless around each other in public and around the kids? Fanfics tend to portray them acting so shamelessly until everyone around them either knows what they're doing in the bedroom or are really tired of them acting like this in public. Is this how they really act in the novel?

I think this may be due to fandom running with this particular scene:

After entering the tavern, they took a seat in an inconspicuous corner, and the waiter came over to greet them. He saw the sword at Lan Wangji’s waist, then the flute at Wei Wuxian’s. Because of their appearance and bearing, he couldn’t help but connect them to the pair who had been the subject of all the most heated talk recently. But after staring at them intently for a while, he noticed that the customer dressed in white was not wearing the Lan Clan’s forehead ribbon. Ultimately, he was left unsure of their identities.

Wei Wuxian asked for liquor while Lan Wangji ordered a few dishes. With one hand propping up his cheek and the other toying with a snow-white forehead ribbon under the table, Wei Wuxian listened to his deep voice as he read off the dishes. A wide grin was plastered on his face.

Once the waiter was gone, he commented, “So many spicy dishes. Can you eat them?”

Lan Wangji picked up the teacup on the table and took a sip. “Sit properly,” he said evenly.

“There’s no tea in there,” Wei Wuxian pointed out.

Lan Wangji filled the cup, then raised it to his lips again. After a while, he repeated,

“…Sit properly.”

"Am I not? It’s not like I’m propping my feet up on the table like I used to,” Wei Wuxian said.

Lan Wangji could no longer bear it. “Even so, do not put them elsewhere.”

Wei Wuxian was confused. “Where did I put them?”

“…”

"Lan-er-gongzi has so many demands. Why don’t you teach me how to sit properly?”

Lan Wangji put down the teacup and cast him a look. He was about to rise in a whirl of sleeves in order to teach him a very proper lesson indeed—but just then, a table at the center of the main hall burst into a chorus of roaring laughter.

Wei Wuxian likes being innocuously dirty towards Lan Wangji. But it's not anywhere near "everyone knows". We also have to remember when it came to xiao-Mianmian she even tells her parents Wei Wuxian was the "bad man" because he was being more openly dirty than Lan Wangji was, despite their little role play being on both ends . Wei Wuxian really likes being seen as the debauched next to Lan Wangji's prim and pretty self in public.

It's why Wei Wuxian jokes about no one being any the wiser that Lan Wangji can be just as much of a pervert and it not seeming to be fair. They fuck with Lan Qiren by purposefully being loud with their bed activity to annoy him and he can't do anything what with them being in their own home and married. And there is Wei Wuxian sitting in Lan Wangji's lap in front of Lan Sizhui (who they are close to so really no need for much proprietary). But the thing here when it comes to them acting as such, is because they are around designated family with those instances.

If they mess around outside of the discerning eye it's not any more radical than any other couple that plays around. They think there's just a skewed imagining of how couples can and cannot act without it veering into heavy purity politics despite these two acting like any other couple that's not exactly hiding they're a couple. We have the Inn lady in Yunmeng encouraging a one room after they both hesitated about one room or two room question and them HIDING they broke the tub because they had sex.

Fandom likes to think the characters in novel are a lot more discerning of Wangxian's relationship than they actually are. No one in the novel can just tell they have a thing for each other strangers or not. Only ones that encourage them or third wheel are the juniors and Wen Ning. They go on a date night in Yunmeng and it's not something necessarily out of the ordinary or remarked on in the extras (or hell even after the siege and it's Jiang Cheng getting his homophobia bit on and acting like they're being purposely disrespectful despite doing nothing out of the ordinary).

So no, it's an overwrought trope this fandom loves.

[chai-chahiye-yr]

Overwrought trope that fandom loves and also gives and excuse for someone to scorn Wangxian with either Wen Qing being randomly disapproving and scolding Wei Wuxian to put him down, or more often

Jiang Cheng’s homophobia being rewritten to be ‘reasonable’ because he’s not disgusted of people being gay, it’s just that Wangxian are so shamelessly gay that it’s disgusting even if it’s something as innocuous as Wei Wuxian sitting in Lan Wangji’s lap or them holding hands.

Haha let’s laugh

[annalacerda17]

I think it's a mix of people assuming the other characters know more about what's going on in wangxian's relationship than they do because we, as the readers, get to see everything and know everything, so it's sometimes easy to forget that the other characters aren't in our protagonists' heads like we are, and that they don't get to see everything we get to see. So, normal flirting between a couple can look like a lot more when we, as the readers, can see exactly what's going on in that couple's head.

On the other hand, their alleged "lack of decorum" is often used as an excuse to criticize their relationship, and I think there is at least a grain of homophobia in this, because that's actually a pattern that repeats in some other fandoms as well. Just look at TGCF and SVSSS, hualian and bingqiu often get the very same type of criticism, but at least I've never seen that criticism being directed at heterosexual couples, let alone to such a degree. It gives me the vibes of people who say they aren't queerphobic, but then get bothered when they see a queer couple walking down the street, all the while ignoring the heterosexual couple making out beside them.

On the metaphorical third hand, I think this trope is so prevalent in the fandom that people who didn't read the book very carefully - which is totally valid, as a lot of people prefer to read casually just for relaxation - can end up believing this is canon just because it gets repeated so much around the fandom.

[iamthelemonlord]

Thoughts: wwx probably wasn't ever gonna get reincarnated cuz he his body was destroyed and he didn't get burial rites. I'm not 100% sure on this, but seeing that wq's ashes were scattered as a punishment and nmj's soul was cut into pieces and this was a reflection of his body, it makes me wonder if that's a similar case for wwx's soul. It's also seen in tgcf: hc offering his ashes to be destroyed, which would destroy his soul. Being that it's stated wwx's body was completely destroyed, no bones left, makes me wonder if this is the case.

[mxtxfanatic]

Tgcf and mdzs don’t operate under the same worldbuilding rules, so using one to compare to the other doesn’t work. Also Nie Mingjue’s soul wasn’t cut up, just his physical body.

With that said, I think Wei Wuxian could have reincarnated if he wanted and it has nothing to do with the state of his corpse. The thing only thing said to prevent souls from reincarnating is being destroyed (example being Xiao Xingchen whose soul was shattered because his spirit was in life, not because his body post-death wasn’t treated right), but resentment or another worldly attachment can keep them from moving on for however long it takes for the soul to expend that energy. So not receiving a proper burial could lead to a resentful corpse or spirit because a spirit would be resentful at not being respected. Same with disturbing a grave or desecrating a corpse. So despite her corpse being burned and ashes scattered, we never hear a peep about Wen Qing haunting anything, but Wen Ning is still walking around. We also never hear anything about any of the Jiang Clan’s spirits wandering around.

[weiwuxianismybae]

Agree with the comment, except that Nie Mingjue's corpse was indeed cut together with his soul. That's why they couldn't summon his soul in Mingshi:

Wei WuXian was secretly shocked. It was almost impossible that the spirit couldn’t be summoned with Lan WangJi and him playing "Evocation" together, unless… Unless the dead person’s soul was cut apart alongside his corpse!

It appeared that this good fellow’s death was a bit worse than his. Although his corpse was chomped into more pieces, at least his soul was complete.

Exr ch. 19

And as Wei Wuxian put it himself: you couldn't find a more harmless wandering ghost than him. While his soul was whole, he didn't move on. But as he didn't become resentful either, I think he would have moved on and reincarnated eventually. At least that's my wishful thinking.

[delicatebitchking]

Wei WuXian in a nutshell

[mxtxfanatic]

Just realized that you could write a canon-compliant, Wei Wuxian-centric fic with no mention, allusion, or reference to Jiang Cheng, but you couldn’t write a canon-compliant, Jiang Cheng-centric fic without bringing up Wei Wuxian, and I just think this sums up their characters so neatly.

[weiwuxianismybae]

Some of you are kinda misunderstanding the consequences of a golden core removal. No, it’s not like being disabled. And before I go further, I'm not trying to downplay how much pain Wei Wuxian went through, both mentally and physically, but it's not like him suddenly turning disabled. He would have been disabled if he had to live with chronic pain after the surgery, but he doesn't. Such a thing is never mentioned and it's more reasonable to assume that he didn’t have it than that he had. Also, Wen Qing was the best doctor of the generation. It's ridiculous to assume that she would leave Wei Wuxian disabled after her surgery.

Golden core is an extra appendage. Without it, you return to the default setting. Wei Wuxian was once again a regular human.

Though, not really. He went through the whole war, not once lagging behind the cultivators. He hit the bullseye blindfolded. He went against 3000 cultivators. In Mo Xuanyu's body, with a weak golden core, he, without a sword, went against Xue Yang.

Wei Wuxian is truly phenomenal, with or without a golden core. His sacrifice of debt and gratitude shouldn’t be disregarded, but it shouldn’t be exaggerated either.

[yunmeng-jiang]

btw i definitely think Wei Wuxian's relationship tips are some of the worst pieces of advice in the history of ever. it's all stuff like "well based on my experience, just sitting there and yapping about whatever until the object of your affection turns red and clenches their fists and generally looks super pissed off is a great course of action. also, you should be saying the most suggestive, innuendo-laden things you can think of at all times. maybe also get them really drunk if you want to have fun at their expense. just basically be as annoying as humanly possible and you'll be irresistible!" and the problem is that it works perfectly if your name is Wei Ying and the person you are seducing is Lan Wangji, but for pretty much anyone else this is an extremely unwise course of action and if you want someone to actually be romantically interested in you in the slightest you should in fact be doing the opposite of all that

[weiwuxianismybae]

Saying the most suggestive, innuendo-laden things:

Wei WuXian assuredly threw a series of charming winks at both sides of the path, “Sister, how much for half a kilogram of loquats?”

[...]

Wei WuXian turned around, perfectly catching it, and grinned, “Sister looks even prettier!”

[...]

After the second one also landed in his hand, Wei WuXian shouted, “Sister, you’re not only pretty, but you’re nice as well. The next time I come here, I’m gonna buy a whole basket!”

The woman’s voice was vibrant, and she was more daring than the other. She pointed at Lan WangJi, “Get him to come as well. You all can come here and get them!”

Exr. 17

Making the other clench their fists and leaving them fuming:

Only after Wei WuXian exchanged a few words with them, a cheerful smile on his face, did they finally begin to calm down and respond shyly.

[...]

Lan WangJi, “What did you give them?”

Wei WuXian, “Oh. You mean that? It’s rouge.”

[...] Wei WuXian, “You have to show people your thanks when you’re asking them things, right? I wanted to give them money, but they were too scared and didn’t dare to take it. It seemed like they really liked the scent of the rouge. They had probably never used such a thing before, so I gave it to them.”

With a pause, he added, “HanGuang-Jun, why are you looking at me like this? I know that the rouge’s quality really isn’t that great. But I’m not like how I used to be, when I always had a ton of flowers and jewellery on me to give to the girls. I really don’t have anything else to give them. At least it’s better than nothing.”

Exr. 33

Just out of where are you pulling these terrible takes?

Here a few actual advices from Wei Wuxian. Starting with a lesson in invitation for a date:

“[...] If you come to Lotus Pier, you can eat lots of delicious food. I can take you to pick lotus seed pods and water chestnuts. Lan Zhan, do you wanna come?”

Lan WangJi , “No.”

Wei WuXian, “Don’t answer everything with negative words. You sound so uncaring; girls won’t like it. Let me tell you—the girls in Yunmeng look very pretty, different from the sort of pretty in Gusu.”

Exr. 18

A lesson in trust:

Wei WuXian turned around and shouted, “HanGuang-Jun, it’s up to you now. We’re gonna go ahead!”

The strings of the guqin vibrated, as if someone was saying ‘mnn’. Wei WuXian cracked up with a pfft. Lan JingYi hesitated, “That was it? You are not going to say anything else?”

Wei WuXian, “What else do you want me to do? What else should I say?”

Lan JingYi, “Why did you two not say ‘I’m worried about you. I’m staying!’, ‘Go!’, ‘No! I’m not going! If I’m going, you’re going with me!’? Is it not a must?”

Wei WuXian was left open-mouthed, “Who taught you this? Who told you that this sort of conversation must happen? It’d sound fine out of my mouth, but can you even imagine your HanGuang-Jun say such things?”

The Lan Sect’s juniors chorused, “No…”

Wei WuXian, “Right? It’s a waste of time. I believe that someone as reliable as HanGuang-Jun will definitely be able to deal with it. I can just focus on my own things and either wait for him to find me or go find him myself.”

Exr. 38 (emphasis mine)

A lesson in reciprocity:

The woman, “The watermelon we gave you. Was it good?”

Wei WuXian realized, “So you were the ones who gave us the watermelon. It was delicious! Why didn’t you come in and sit? We could’ve poured you some tea!”

The woman smiled, “You lot weren’t there when we visited, so we left without going in. I’m glad to hear it tasted good!”

Wei WuXian, “Thank you!” He fished out a couple of big seed pods from the bottom of the boat, “Here are some lotus seed pods. Next time you visit, come and watch me train!”

Jiang Cheng snorted, “Would anyone want to watch you train?”

Wei WuXian threw the seed pods toward the shore. It was a far distance, but they landed lightly in the women’s hands. He grabbed a few more and stuffed them into Jiang Cheng’s arms, shoving, “What are you doing, just standing there? Hurry up.”

After a few shoves, Jiang Cheng could only accept them, “Hurry up and do what?”

Wei WuXian, “You ate the watermelon too, so you also have to return the gift, don’t you? Here, here, don’t be embarrassed. Start throwing, start throwing.”

Jiang Cheng snorted again, “You must be joking. What’s there to be embarrassed about?” Whatever he said, however, even after all of the shidi began to throw seed pods, he still didn’t start to move. Wei WuXian urged, “Then throw some! If you throw some this time, next time you can ask them if the seed pods tasted good, and you’ll be able to make conversation again!”

The shidi were in awe, “So that’s why! What a lesson. You have so much experience with these things, Shixiong!”

Exr. Lotus Seed Pod Extra (emphasis mine)

While Jiang Cheng floundered his dates to the point of being blacklisted in all of Yunmeng. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[allpiesforourown]

Okay here's my Lan Qiren apologist masterpost

"He had Lan Wangji whipped! He's an abuser!"

That was Lan Wangji's punishment for injuring 33 Lan elders while defending a demonic cultivator who caused innumerable deaths in the cultivation community. You need to remember the setting of this story: Madame Yu whipped Wei Ying half to death just because she went "you didn't do anything wrong, your general existence is just mildly annoying to me." Lan Qiren deciding Lan Wangji get one lash for every person he hurt is NOTHING in comparison to the punishment he would have gotten if anyone else was in charge and it was the only way to clear his name.

2. "The Lan sect rules he enforces are too strict."

First of all, Lan Qiren is an old Asian person. I feel like that would be enough to make my point, but I will continue regardless.

The Lans have so many rules because they have extreme self-regulation issues when it comes to their emotions. We've seen Lan Wangji's dad ruin his life by trying to atticwife his lover, but Lan Wangji wasn't any better. If you've read the incense burner extra you know he got his first crush at 15 and his brain immediately went to fantasizing about violently assaulting Wei Ying in the library. Their hundreds of rules are stifling because they're supposed to be. If the Lans don't try to contain themselves they will ruin their lives and the lives of people they care about.

Is "don't talk while you're eating" even that extreme of a household rule? Like every family has some variation of "don't do ____ at the dinner table" and the Lans having their own version is not that insane.

3. "He was against Lan Wangji loving Wei Wuxian."

I need you to spend like. 2 minutes putting yourself in Lan Qiren's shoes.

Imagine you are Lan Qiren. Imagine you find out your brother broke his family apart by forcing his wife to stay with him. Lan Qiren was just a man who was thrust into not only taking care of the Lan clan, one of the biggest cultivation sects you can think of, but also his two traumatized nephews. Imagine cleaning up the mess your brother left you while having to raise two children that aren't yours.

Then you see your nephew, who you have raised like your own son, helplessly pining after the infamous demonic cultivator who has rejected him and teased him. You watch him turn against and injure his own family members to protect a literal criminal.

Then he comes home holding the child of the man he loves and you let him keep that baby and raise him. Because you see yourself in him. You see someone who just lost a loved one who was not a good person but someone you loved regardless. How many times do you think he saw Lan Wangji raising Lan Yuan and remembered himself raising someone else's children because their father was no longer there?

And then after all that Lan Qiren had been through, he didn't even try to keep Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian apart once he found out the truth. When Wei Ying explained how he'd been set up, he was one of the first elders in the cultivation community to give him a chance to explain himself. And after that even if he was cold to Wei Ying, he didn't say shit about the two of them having nasty loud gay sex in gusu every night.

I don't care. Lan Qiren hate will always be forced to me, he did literally nothing wrong and if I was in his shoes I would not have been able to handle it

[mxtxfanatic]

Idk, I feel like points 1 and 3 are kinda weak. Just because Lan Wangji fighting his clan went “against the rules” does not mean that the rules are moral to begin with, especially since what he fought them over was to protect Wei Wuxian, the sole protector or a group of labor camp escapees. Lan Wangji was also not whipped to “clear his name;” he was whipped as punishment, i.e. retribution for the suffering he inflicted on his elders. He had no name to clear because the only people who even knew what he was being punished for were the 33 senior disciples, Lan Xichen, and Lan Qiren, since the point of only those individuals going after him was to keep his actions at Nightless City secret. Those three years Lan Wangji took to heal? Sold to the outside world as “seclusion” just like the Lan told the rest of the world that his imprisoned mother was just “in seclusion.” Lan Qiren isn’t wrong in this instance because of the whipping, though; he’s wrong for his hand in the persecution of Wei Wuxian and the Wen remnants which is what culminated in the whipping (also we don’t even know if he did it or lxc did, but that’s an aside).

For your third point, Lan Qiren hated Wei Wuxian before he ever found out Lan Wangji liked him, and he didn’t find out that Lan Wangji liked Wei Wuxian until he and the other senior disciples went on their search post-Nightless City bloodbath. Lan Qiren hates Wei Wuxian because he hated the boy’s mother, no need to embellish that. Saying that Lan Qiren doesn’t keep wangxian apart as some sort of sign that he’s actually being fair is misleading, because the stated reason why he mostly keeps his thoughts to himself is because he knows that Lan Wangji will never obey him on this subject and that the price of forcing his nephew to obey him may be said nephew’s wellbeing and their relationship and uncle and nephew, lest we forget that Lan Qiren wanted Lan Wangji to turn Wen Yuan back on the streets until Lan Wangji branded himself during a drunken, grieving stint. But even then, Lan Wangji has to argue with Lan Qiren about Wei Wuxian being invited to the clan banquet post-marriage, he punishes the juniors if he catches them interacting with Wei Wuxian, and he also absolutely lectures Lan Wangji about “improper behavior” in the extras. Not once does Lan Qiren go out of his way to interact with or acknowledge Wei Wuxian, it is Wei Wuxian who—out of respect for seniority—reaches out first.

I’ll give you your second point because Lan Qiren being a stickler for rules—while annoying in some cases—isn’t in itself a bad thing. Lan Wangji is also a stickler for rules and only breaks them when it comes to Wei Wuxian, just like Wei Wuxian makes an effort to follow them only for Lan Wangji’s sake. Lan Qiren was dealt a shitty hand by the unexpected actions of his brother, but his own bullheadedness also harmed his nephews until he finally accepted that he can’t intimidate them (Lan Wangji, mostly) into obeying him just because “rules.” Once he reached that acceptance, he was able to peacefully coexist as a continued part of his nephew’s life, but that doesn’t mean he still doesn’t have his unjustified, angry flair-ups. He’s simply a sanctimonious asshole.

[thischickiswack]

I’m going to go ahead and say a) thanks for responding to perhaps the weirdest post I’ve ever seen but b) I have to chime in because I actually had different issues with the take.

I actually think #1 is the only valid point (meeting violence with violence makes sense to me) while #2 veers straight off into racism.

“is an old Asian person” is insanely stereotypical and racist, especially when literally EVERYONE in the story is Asian. Oh my god. As an asian person (albeit west asian,) grow up, OP. By OP’s logic, since everyone abides by these mystical Strict Asian Rules, than there shouldn’t even be any discord. But there is. Wei Wuxian makes fun of their standards constantly (which I don’t think is fair, but regardless, it shows that it’s not the cultural norm for everyone.)

Secondly, Wei Wuxian isn’t actually the only person Lan Wangji is a bit slack on the rules with. There are several instances where Lan Jingji begins to speak, then Wei Wuxian notices that he pauses to look at Lan Wangji to make sure he wont be punished for breaking the precepts, usually gossiping. I also just generally think Lan Wangji tends to give the juniors more slack than he was ever given, although it’s hard to distinguish what he was and wasn’t given, and what he self inflicted as a disciplinary. Lan Sizhui is the one who makes the comment that infuriates Jin Ling after the Xue Yang incident, which indicates to me they weren’t taking their meal in silence. While its possible no one had begun eating yet since Lan Jingji makes a comment about not having tried a dish, I personally find the former more likely since we see them mid-meal when WWZ and LWJ walk in.

I also think being a strict asian parent turns into straight up harsh cruelty when you threaten to beat a child who cant process death for going to visit the house his mother resides in in hopes that she’ll appear. Or ostracizing your star student from his peers by making him the disciplinary head, ensuring that people are more afraid of him. (Obviously I don’t think this was purposeful, but clearly his intentions are not as a loving parental figure, but as someone trying to mold a perfect employee to carry out your clan’s way.)

[weiwuxianismybae]

Agree with everything above, and I just want to add that

The Lans have so many rules because they have extreme self-regulation issues when it comes to their emotions.

is a baseless take. The novel gives a clear explanation of where the rules come from. Lan An grew up as a monk. All those rules about no killing within Cloud Recesses, waking at 5 and sleeping at 9, all stem from the life in a monastery. The later generations expanded upon this basis, not because they have "self-regation issues," but because with time and growth of the clan, adjustments needed to be made.

Also, it's unreasonable to judge the whole clan (blood related and outer disciples) on actions of one or two people from the main family. I'm not going to comment upon Qingheng-jun's decision because the novel doesn't provide that many details. As to Lan Wangji’s fantasies, I strongly believe that those were influenced by Wei Wuxian's words. In chapter 111, while they're rolling in the grass, he says this:

“Where was I? Let’s continue. You’re so strong, so I couldn’t have resisted. If I screamed, you could’ve silenced me. Or your Library Pavilion also would’ve been a great place, right in the middle of the scriptures scattered on the ground. We could’ve bought a few cut-sleeve booklets to compare and learn, any position at all... Ge! Ge! Er-gege!

ExR.

While, sure, Lan Wangji could have had those fantasies without needing Wei Wuxian to add oil, just because someone has certain fantasies doesn't mean they would act upon them. Lan Wangji didn’t after all. And as to the stolen kiss during the hunt on the Phenix mountain — Lan Wangji felt remorseful for his actions and apologised to Wei Wuxian (later, but honestly the guy teased him to such an extreme only a kiss was a very tame reaction). He was also always respectful towards Wei Wuxian's wishes and decisions. "There is someone I want to take back and hide," shows his care and concern for Wei Wuxian, not him actually wishing to kidnap Wei Wuxian.

A better argument to "The Lan Sect rules are too strict" would be: And? Their house, their rules. Those rules only apply to the Gusu Lan disciples (or visiting disciples who are there to study) and only within the Cloud Recesses. That's why Wei Wuxian was completely reasonable (if insufferable), saying that he would go outside of Cloud Recesses to kill the rabbits and then bring them back to roast. Or drinking on the wall because that's "outside."

Anyway, Lan Qiren is a pedantic old goat. Why stan him?

[weiwuxianismybae]

"Jiang Cheng rebuild his whole clan from the ashes!"

And where do you think Wei Wuxian was? Cheered him on from the sidelines? Drank his days away with ghost women?

The Lotus Pier was never burned (in the novel) – what use is a burned Supervision Office to the Wen? Besides those first three months without Wei Wuxian, he didn't rebuild anything alone. After, it's because of Wei Wuxian that the Jiang Clan continued to exist as a Great Clan and recruited plenty of disciples.

[weiwuxianismybae]

"That's the longest sentence he's heard Lan Wangji say."

Isn't this getting annoying and repetitive? Lan Wangji is not someone who doesn't know how to socialise. He just prefers not to with most people. In the novel, the story about the Chang clan, while told to us through narration, is told to Wei Wuxian by Lan Wangji in "simple and straightforward words." It's not that he doesn't know how to talk, it's that he does so without embellishing his words. He, with his straight to the point words, is at one side of the spectrum, while the sweet-talking, boot-licking Jin Guangyao is at the other, with Wei Wuxian hopping through it depending on the situation.

Lan Wangji is a well-educated gentleman! Don't disrespect him like this!

[weiwuxianismybae]

While studying for my Chinese history exam, I suddenly started thinking how if not for Wei Wuxian's return and the unveiling of Jin Guangyao's schemes Jin Guangyao would have used the story of the Duke of Zhou as an excuse to stay in power and manipulate Jin Ling.

The Duke of Zhou was a younger brother of King Wu. King Wu together with King Wen overthrew the bad drunkard king of Shang dynasty who had lost the Heaven's favour and founded the Zhou dynasty. Or that's how the story goes. Anyway, after King Wu's death, his son was too young, so the Duke of Zhou took over and helped consolidate the new dynasty. In the idealised version of this story, the Duke of Zhou willingly passed the throne to his nephew and stayed his loyal adviser. This story is very famous and the duke is often seen as an example of a wise man and a loyal adviser to a young king.

I can very well see how Jin Guangyao would use this story to reassure the Jin elders that he will give the seat of clan leader to Jin Ling when the boy is older.

So, can you imagine how as soon as Jin Ling is of age to take over Jin Guangyao willingly and graciously steps down like the Duke of Zhou and "consults" Jin Ling on how to govern. I can see this develop in two ways: 1. Jin Guangyao stays behind the scenes but has all the actual power or 2. Jin Guangyao "consults" Jin Ling to the point that everyone is dissatisfied with his rule and forces him to give up the seat of clan leader and Jin Guangyao takes over once more (Jin Ling will most likely end up dead in this case).

When I read the "this story was often used as an example—" I immediately thought of Jin Guangyao and had to write this.

This is very similar to how Wei Wuxian uses the story of Yu the Great (another great cultural hero) to illustrate his point of how obstructing the resentful energy is wasteful and it's better to redirect it instead.