sienna

currently waiting for that avalanche in the finale i guess

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

how could you do this to me

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

this is so true, how come even after everything they show and tell us it still feels like there’s another story hidden within, and that’s why everyone knows the way things could’ve gone if they just stayed true to THAT story, the one that contains the actual message of the show, instead of going against it

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

even when they are supposed to be bones they look more endgame than ever

#ambiguousbyler

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

I need to read an extremely long and detailed fic where mike goes to college, starts to come to terms with his sexuality and finally frees himself from the lifelong internalized homophobia, and just then he reunites with will in nyc thank you

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

the concept of mike seeming to be more in love with el when she’s dead…

he couldn’t even say i love you when she was DYING

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

season 2

sorcerer

season 1

season 4

season 3

season 5

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

friends? no thanks! *long pause* best friends!

that is just plain fucking evil for us and for will

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

i’m so sorry mike wheeler your character is just tragic

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

vol 2 is actually really good when you don’t have someone in your ear telling you it’s the worst thing they’ve ever seen and that the duffers should never write again (they did mess up some stuff tho)

[gayofthefae]

If it helps anybody's Byler doubt, because I feel like of all things this will the most:

The finale alone makes up over a QUARTER of the season

It makes up 26% of season 5's runtime.

THAT is why I keep bringing up story structure. Structure isn't about quantity. It's about RATIO.

And you may not feel like 2 hours is enough time. But the last quarter of the story IS.

You're comparing it wrong. Season 1's finale was 15%. Season 2's was also 15%.

The closest we've ever had is the season 4 finale, 22%. And there were 4 romantic confessions that episode. FOUR. Jopper, St@ncy, Lumax, and Mlvn. And an additional one attempted earlier in the episode for Mlvn. So 5, really. 5 scenes about one at least.

We're asking for ONE. With a LARGER portion of the story arc left. You're thinking time. But there is a larger portion of the story arc left.

And we still have no idea how they're pacing the epilogue. They fit 4 love confessions and a fifth attempt into 4x09 with 142 minutes total, but the epilogue hit at minute 110. On the other hand, the shortest epilogue we've had was only 10 minutes. Without that 32 minute outlier that's a result of the deep explanation a cliffhanger lost battle requires, the averaged epilogue length is actually only 13 minutes. Going off that, that's 5 love confession scenes with the battle in 110 minutes versus ONE in 115. More time. And they've dealt with most other personal plots early. They could give like 4/5 of those personal scenes to Byler buildup, easy.

[One last thing that's even further notable, in 110 minutes they fit 5 love confessions AND FOUR locations. FOUR different plotlines they were cutting between. Russia, Cali, Hawkins, and the upside down. There should only be 3 in our finale. Upside Down, WSQK, and The Abyss. That cuts out a whole 'nother chunk. 4 love confessions and a full plotline shorter...and I think we've made up that time. And with 5 minutes more minutes to spare, even.]

Edit: someone pointed out that I missed a number in my math the real stats are 21% for this finale, 13% for seasons 1 and 2, and season 4 was 18%. But my point of course being about difference not quantity still stands! Over a fifth is still plenty. And it's still up to 115 minutes. Thank you to the person who pointed this out.

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

“the duffers dumbed down will’s love for mike to just a silly crush” no they didn’t. Will did.

“the duffers made mike parallel tammy” no they didn’t. Will did.

to everyone complaining it doesn’t make sense, you’re right, it doesn’t and that’s they want you to realize

let’s not forget one of the main storytelling elements used in the series is show not tell

it’s not the first time they told us something and showed something completely different after

will byers is the ultimate unreliable narrator, he literally said he knew mike wasn’t like him and didn’t love him back. but he doesn’t actually know that he just assumed it

that’s why it’s up to mike to prove him wrong and show not only will but the audience that he does love him back

in tfs henry knew patty loved him, and it wasn’t until brenner and the mind flayer manipulated him and convinced him that she didn’t and she was actually scared of him, fear defeating love

in the show will thinks mike doesn’t love him since the beginning, and in the end he will be shown mike actually does love him, this time love defeating fear

byler and creelby becoming foils again

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

it’s going to happen I don’t care

and then everyone’s going to be like remember when we thought we lost and were queerbaited and everyone cried and crashed out for five days while watching sad byler edits and cursing the duffers just for everything to work out in the finale

am I disappointed in the way they treated it? yes

do I still think it’s gonna happen? fuck yeah

EVERYONE GET MORE BYLER RIGHT NOW

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

love can and will defeat fear

will doesn’t actually believe mike is his tammy, we’ve seen the way he still looks at him, either he’s trying to convince himself he’s over mike or trying to lead vecna to believe this is the case

this will probably backfire, since vecna can still see into his mind, knowing that the big secret isn’t will being gay but him being in love with mike

the same it happened to henry, his love for him is going to be used against him, almost leading him to succumb to vecna and mind flayer

this brings out the “can love defeat fear?” question, which in henry’s case, it didn’t

and just when we think will is going in the same direction, that’s when mike comes in, finally confessing and proving will AND the audience wrong

mike is not will’s tammy, he is his vickie, even better he’s just his mike, the same boy will’s been love with for years

and this is where we find out that in will’s case, love can defeat fear, and give him the strength to kill vecna

they have all the pieces to make it work, even if it’s not the way we were expecting, and it could’ve been handled way better, there’s still hope for this to work

they way the treated mike and will’s relationship throughout the whole show is so special and meaningful to so many people, and we still have time to see it pay off like it’s supposed to, and while there were scenes and plot lines from this volume that were treated poorly, there were also scenes beautifully handled and that still carry an emotional weight that led us to this last chapter

the end of sorcerer and it’s impact on the queer community is still there, and I choose to believe that the same way they were able to do that, they can make not only a beautiful lovestory with years of building but a good fucking representation of queer love in a mainstream show

we’ve come so far we might as well stay hopeful till the end!

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

I truly believe they are trying to make us blind with rage and dissapointment so we don’t what’s coming

even after whatever the hell that was I still believe the duffers have something else up their sleeve but mostly I still believe in my close personal friend Mike Wheeler

I know there is way more depth to his character and this possible plotwist

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

ok so they are either queerbaiting us or just ragebaiting us so even us bylers don’t see the plot twist

[castleclerics]

ever since i saw that shot of mike looking at will at the end of ep4 i’ve been saying “omg he’s about to get sooo annoying about him” and god was i right

[gayofthefae]

I feel like so many people saying Will can be totally fulfilled without Mike are leaving out one vital detail:

Will is a romantic.

Not just has romantic feelings. He is a romantic.

He paints his crush with a heart on it. He unburdens himself in romantic confessions. He believes in sacrifices for love. He doesn't just want to makeout, he wants "to date". He likes a playful touch and a teasing smile. He encourages friends' crushes and watches them happily when they finally dance together. And he may not say it, but he secretly just wants somebody to hold his hand.

He doesn't just want romance, he wants Mike.

But it's also important to say that he doesn't just want Mike. He wants. romance.

He wants Mike. And he wants an avalanche. And he wants a knee brush, and a shared look, and an elbow bump, and a love letter, and a phone call,

He deserves more than just the some of those things people are proposing.

He wants to love his own queerness. And he wants Mike. You say "he can have both of those things still in some form". Great.

He also wants romance. That's still true.

The reason self acceptance doesn't work is because it was never all he wanted. He wanted romance. Queer joy as a general concept was not his sole goal. He still wants individual, specific things, and he always has.

His goal was never acceptance, people just haven't had enough representation to watch to see that queer people's only character arc option is not acceptance. It's whatever the indivudal character wants.

We are not a monolith who all just want acceptance, that is not an assumption that can be projected onto any given queer character, it is an individual story that has been told for case by case characters. Also, it is the bare minimum anyways. Wanting safety and good treatment isn't actually even a "want".

Will wants romance. Let him have what he wants. Not let him exist. Let him HAVE. what he WANTS.

[herelovingyouinthetomb]

YES SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK