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Yes, she is...
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âThereâs been some confusion, for you see, my roommate is⊠blondeâ
Yes, she is...
đ€Ł đ©· đ đ€Ł
â Gregory Maguire, Wicked
My heart broke over and over at her expressions in this scene. Frexspar didn't â ïž painfully enough.
Glinda and Her Zero Lack of Subtlety đđđ
Bonus:
One is her putting on a show with rehearsed lines and moves. The other is the flirting and seducing coming to her so naturally she doesnât even notice sheâs doing it.
So naturally! đ©·đ©·đ©·đđđ
Artwork by the amazingly talented Paiges_of_Art.
Itâs always fun to see how the original Wizard of Oz canon converges with the Wicked canon on material made by fans. Glinda having a harem of beautiful women sounds just like a big power move in and of itself in the L. Frank Baum booksâ; the queer undertones (or overtones, Iâd say) are obvious and fun. However, once you try to fit it into the Wicked canon, knowing that Elphaba is the love of Glindaâs life and her âthe one that got awayâ, it feels the tiniest bit less like a power move and more like a desperate coping mechanism and extreme case of overcompensating. Glinda can have all the women of Oz in her bed, but none of them will ever be the one her heart truly yearns for.
for anyone wondering what the legendary 1,000-yard lesbian yearning stare looks like: this is it. this is the stare.
Thereâs not enough words in the universe to convince me they donât feel that connection. Forever.
GELPHIE | Modern AU
âDown on the West Coast, they love their movies. Their golden Gods and rockânâroll groupies. And youâve got the music, youâve got the music in you, donât you?â
Oh yes!!
I think the main problem with the "Glinda wasn't punished enough" takes is people's tendency to mistake revenge for justice.
It's completely understandable to want to hurt people who have hurt you, we all know that feeling. But we often don't consider whether that's actually any good in the long run, and who that actually benefits. It feels good to do bad things to them in the moment, but in the long term what has it done? Has it helped you in anyway, has it benefitted anyone in anyway? Has anything gotten better as a result of it? (Yes I am aware that there are specific circumstances where this actually is the right thing to do, this isn't one of them)
So in Glinda's case, Elphaba has every right to hate her and want to hurt her. But she doesn't because 1. She's a very loving person who's down BAD for Glinda and I hate her so much- I'm getting distracted. And 2. Because what good does "punishing" Glinda do for anyone?? It does nothing good for Elphaba. So far she's watched everyone else she cares about being harmed as a result of her actions. (Well, that's what she believes) Glinda being hurt would just hurt Elphaba more. And the Ozians adore Glinda and anything bad that may happen to her would just cause more anger and fear from the people. And if no positive change comes from the "punishment" , is it really justice?
Glinda's story ended the way it did because that's how it needed to. She was Oz's last hope. They were never going to trust Elphaba, and with the Wizard and Morrible still in power things were only going to get worse. However, the people trust Glinda the Good, and she now wants to do real good and has the power to do so.
And if Glinda could get a "proper" punishment, what's the point? The whole purpose of a punishment is to teach a lesson. Glinda's already learnt the lesson and is using what she's learnt to make things better for everyone.
In short: Glinda "Wasn't punished enough" because literally nothing good would come from it. And if nothing good comes from what you view as a punishment, itâs revenge, not justice.
People who think this way but put Elphaba on a pedestal confuse me because if glinda WAS punished or imprisoned or worse killed, who would continue on Elphieâs cause? Like youâre so right about how people mistake revenge for Justice
Right? It's like they can't separate themselves from these characters. Just because YOU wouldn't have forgiven someone like Glinda that doesn't mean Elphaba also shouldn't. Like it's a fictional story and some things have to happen in order to have a satisfying ending and conclusion.
It also boils down to people's perception of these characters. Although Wicked tries to teach the lesson that you shouldn't apply the "good" and "wicked" labels on people so easily, they still go out of their way and apply those same labels to Glinda and Elphaba. That's why you get these weird takes which insist that Glinda should be punished eternally and Elphaba is treated like a saint who does not wrong.
đŻ to everything said above. Glinda DID learn a lesson. And she WAS punished, in that she lost everyone who ever meant anything to her, especially Elphaba. (I still hold out that she is reunited with her heart in the endâŠyou know the scene.)
But letâs face it, beyond those who felt Glinda deserved more of a punishment than LOSING EVERYTHING because of some individual concept of justice, the vast majority of those calling for revenge are simply hateful. IMO.
One of the weirder tendencies Iâve noticed about people who demonize Glinda and sanctify Fiyero is that they donât seem to want to engage with the fact that Wicked is about characters from The Wizard of Oz and that thereâs genuine and intentional significance to that. Itâs not just a schtick, itâs not just a marketing tactic, thereâs a real actual purpose to the fact that it centers on already well-established characters from a story that has existed in some iteration for over 100 years.
Elphaba isnât just Generic Misunderstood Outcast Rebel Girl fighting fascism, she is very specifically the Wicked Witch of the West, far and away one of the most iconic characters in film. And sheâs iconic, because sheâs a caricature. Pure evil. No nuance. Green skin, crazy cackle, setting people on fire, terrorizing a whole nation over a pair of shoes, tried to kill a kid and her little dog too. Completely irredeemable.
Glinda the Good Witch? Same deal, but flipped. A caricatureof pure goodness.Â
And after watching Part 1, so many people decided Wicked was a SURPRISE TWIST THE GOOD GUYS ARE THE BAD GUYS AND THE BAD GUYS ARE THE GOOD GUYS story.Â
Which is so completely insane to me given that right from jump, Wicked is screaming at the top of its lungs âThe concept of Absolute Good and Absolute Evil is NOT REAL, it is a tool used by a fascist regime to subjugate and control the masses.â
If Wicked were a Good versus Evil story, or a Hunger Games-esque Fight Fascism story, Elphaba and Fiyero would be the central relationship, Elphaba as our Outcast Rebel Protagonist, Fiyero as our secondary lead who would presumably show some textual evidence of a grander moral backbone and awareness and aspirations beyond just running away from it all and becoming Mr. Elphaba Thropp.
But Elphaba and Fiyero arenât the main characters, Elphaba and Glinda are the main characters; because Wicked is not a Good versus Evil story, nor is it even a Fight Fascism story. Fighting fascism is Elphabaâs personal goal, and itâs the reason why her image has been twisted and exploited - but itâs not the overarching theme of the narrative itself.
The narrative itself is about Good and Evil as propaganda, not literal moral states of being. Itâs asking you to look at the Wicked Witch, and Glinda the Good, two of the most recognizable icons in film who represent Absolute Evil and Absolute Good, and dismantle both of them.
Not SWITCH both of them; DISMANTLE both of them.
Because both the âWicked Witchâ and âGlinda the Goodâ are creations of the Wizardâs regime; theyâre pawns, theyâre puppets, theyâre caricatures manufactured by the authoritarian government to keep control over people, to keep people from questioning or rebelling, specifically by weaponizing moral panic. As such, both the âWicked Witchâ and âGlinda the Goodâ are just as much the antagonists of the story as the Wizard and Morrible. Because they ARE the propaganda machine.
And the only way to take down the fascist regime is to take apart the propaganda machine, which means taking apart the two most pivotal pieces keeping it together.
Basically youâre supposed to be unearthing the humanity beneath the icon, on both ends of the spectrum.Â
When we first meet Elphaba and Galinda in Act 1, back when they had no idea they were going to become political props, they were both very human - BUT, very notably, they were both extremely armored in these protective facades theyâve been carrying around since childhood. For Elphaba, that armor manifests as brutal honesty, self righteousness, and disdain for social hierarchy. For Galinda, that armor manifests in hollow, self-serving proclamations of goodness, and an obsession with outward appearances of perfection, both physical and moral.
Whatâs interesting about their âloathingâ era is that they loathe each other specifically because they see the human in each other. Galinda doesnât hate Elphaba for being green, she hates her because she publicly took a sledgehammer to the Galinda Is Perfect statue she built of herself and said nah, youâre not perfect, youâre just a person, and kind of a lousy one at that.
In a very weird way, Elphaba just created the first genuine human connection for BOTH of them - Elphaba has always been treated like an inhuman monster, Galinda has always been treated like the superficial embodiment of perfection beyond reproach - so for the first time, these two girls have someone looking them dead-on and saying, no, idiot, youâre human. And because of that, theyâre obsessed with scratching and picking away at the armor of each other. Itâs loathing, but thereâs a give and take to it, even a sense of satisfaction and enjoyment - they want to find the human in each other, even if they claim itâs for purposes of mutually assured destruction.
So by the time we get to the Ozdust, theyâve both worked away at each other and gotten to see the human in each other so well, Galinda recognizes the vulnerability in Elphaba when sheâs dancing alone, when no one else does - when even Fiyero just thinks Golly itâs so super duper cool Elphaba doesnât care what anyone else thinks about her.Â
Both Elphaba and Galinda are at their most vulnerable during the Ozdust duet, because theyâve earned it. They know each other better than anyone, they both see each other as human when no one else does. But this time itâs changed tone - Galinda dances with her because of this recognition of holy shit, this person whose armor Iâve been obsessively chipping away at is vulnerable in the way that all humans are vulnerable, and I did that, Iâm responsible for that, and I donât want to be that person, and I actually admire this person, and care about this person, and I want to fix the damage Iâve done, I need to do something to show her Iâm with her.
Of even more significance is Elphabaâs acceptance of Galinda dancing with her. Elphaba is very shrewd and very guarded and very good at seeing through peopleâs bullshit, so by accepting this olive branch, sheâs also recognizing that this person whose armor sheâs been chipping away at does actually have a genuine desire to make amends, to admit she was wrong, to be better than who she was - to be human, not just a one-dimensional icon superficially beloved by the masses.Â
Itâs not elegant, but from both Elphaba and Galinda, that scene is a slow unfolding of âI was obsessed with hating the fact that you called out the human in me,â to âOh, thereâs a vulnerability to the human in you.â
So now weâve got Defying Gravity, and Elphaba and Glinda hit the irreconcilable differences mark, and they part ways - and the dictator swoops in and uses them to embody an ideal of Absolute Evil and Absolute Good, effectively stripping away the humanity that Elphaba and Glinda found in each other. Thus begins the propaganda machine.
These are not roles Elphaba or Glinda ever meant to find themselves in. And they still love each other, but over time, we see them begin to relapse into their old pre-Ozdust facades in order to protect themselves - Elphaba withdrawing into self righteous solitude, Glinda fixating on surface level adoration from the world, both of them beginning to deny and reject the vulnerabilities in themselves that the other brought out.
The Wizard and Morrible very much succeed in driving this narrative of the âWicked Witchâ and âGlinda the Good,â to the point that both Elphaba and Glinda start to find comfort and strength in these roles as their personal lives and relationships begin to fall apart. Toward the end of Act 2, they have largely embraced and committed to these caricatures of themselves, which means that just like the rest of Oz, theyâve been suckered in by the propaganda machine, while at the same time, literally being the propaganda machine.
The story hinges on their ability to recognize that theyâve become part of that machine, and their ability to dismantle it.Â
I donât know where the article is anymore but I remember Jon Chu said something along the lines of them being each otherâs salvation, which in addition to being the most insane way he possibly could have phrased that, is actually the crux of their relationship. They saw each other as human before anyone else did, then they had that humanity torn away from them, then they took comfort in the stripping-away of their humanityâŠso how do they get it back?
Essentially they have to come back to themselves at the Ozdust. Glinda has to confront the fact that sheâs let herself be ruled by her own denial and fear and need to be adored, and Elphaba has to confront the fact that sheâs let herself be ruled by self righteousness and hubris and the need to be respected, and that neither of them has had any real effect on the state of Oz as a whole, except to serve the narrative created by the Wizard and Morrible. Thatâs the point: they have both been reduced to pawns who exist to propagate the unchecked authority of the Wizardâs regime.
Wicked has heavy Fight Injustice, Resist Fascism, and Stand Up for Whatâs Right Even If Youâre Standing Alone messages, and it does raise parallels to the real world stripping away of human rights and using âothernessâ as a scapegoat to manipulate a disenfranchised populace (Iâm gonna say they were clumsy about it and really lost that whole plot in Act 2, butâŠyâknowâŠthatâsâŠitâs Wicked Act 2 - Dana Fox, you did the best you could with what they gave you, angel, truly Act 2 is a whole mess to try to work with, youâre a hero honestly <3)
But as the audience, you really are supposed to be looking at Good and Evil as propaganda, not a true moral binary to simply be flipped on its head. Youâre supposed to be taking two of the most recognizable fictional images of Good and Evil in media, and questioning the whole concept of Good and Evil, and how this authoritarian government was able to use these young women to embody that concept to further their own agenda, and to what degree both Glinda and Elphaba submitted to it.Â
And youâre supposed to be looking for the human in both Elphaba and Glinda when theyâre at their worst, when theyâre petty or vengeful or self-serving. Youâre supposed to be rooting for them to get free of the roles theyâve been corralled into and come back to themselves, which in turn will allow them to, yâknow, overthrow the government. That is actually the point of this very oddly-paced and inconsistently-toned weirdo story, thatâs the reason Elphaba and Glinda are the main characters, because the evolution of their relationship from beginning to end actually addresses the main themes Wicked has laid out.Â
âŠOr! Alternatively! You can just say Elphaba is a precious pure cinnamon roll whoâs a misunderstood but morally pristine freedom fighter and is also meeeee :D and Glinda is a self-obsessed fascist >:( and Fiyeroâs a noble hero and martyr and should actually be the main character <3 and thank goodness Elphabaâs arc ends in being provided for by a man who loves her so she can live out the simple life she REALLY wants as wife and mother in the story of Anthony Bridgertonâs Adventures in Oz ;) Like genuinely some of you are so determined for Wicked to be about quite literally anything except what itâs about, and Iâm just over here smacking my head against the wall slowly going insane.
^I am aware that this is me right now btw. like itâs fine. i know what iâm about. showin up to tumblr with my clown shoes writin my clown essays. the wicked era is over and iâm still here muttering and shaking my fist at the sky, full clown. this will still be me in the nursing home i fear. do they make nursing homes for clowns. god i hope so.
đ€đ€đ€ yes
gayest parts of wicked: for good off the top of my head:
- consistent rainbow symbolism. âitâs because somewhere over the rainbow!â right but were they ever over the rainbow or was it just a pride flag that followed glinda around?
- elphaba giving fiyercrow glindaâs big brown eyes. insane because green eyes would have been a one trillion times better choice for him.
- elphaba wearing that lingerie under her oufit to glindaâs wedding. keep in mind that when she left she had no idea she was gonna sleep with fiyero but she DID know that she was gonna go straight to glindaâs bedroom.
- fiyerabaâs thing being âyouâre beautifulâ when glinda was the first to say it to elphaba in popular
- speaking of popular, the mirror shot in alaym matching the mirror shot in popular, except fiyero is in glindaâs place. dare i say elphaba also looks considerably happier in popularâs scene, and that itâs significant that glinda is looking right at her, as opposed to fiyero turning towards her neck.
- the giant fucking rainbow room that glinda & the wizard had prepped in case elphaba came back and wanted to do a dance number with them
- elphaba keeping and frequently looking at the âi hope you get what your heart desires đâ pamphlet even though itâs been a full year since she last saw glinda
- thank goodness being covered in lavender-colored flowers (not lavender itself but about as close as you can get with a hanging plant)
- speaking of which glinda wearing a lavender colored dress for half the movie??
- the song where they say âi love youâ literally being called into the closet. and them saying i love you at all especially with those looks on their faces
- every part of for good
- literally ANY shot from the field montage, including the last scene
- glindaâs pre-wedding and wedding dressesâ necklines matching the shape of elphabaâs glasses
- similarly, glindaâs wedding jewelry having green gems. also, her crown has green gems that flash near the beginning of girl in the bubble
- every single one of her oufits has at least some green in it, thanks to the above. including deleted outfits!
- girl in the bubble in general
- the whole movie
Emotionally constipated weirdos online: âThe way Ariana and Cynthia be acting, something very traumatic must have happened on the Wicked set!â
All the traumatic stuff Ariana and Cynthia were up to on the Wicked set:
Glinda The Good | Grief, Memory
Catfight and balcony scene anon here!!
I think the movie REALLY doubles down on metatext with the balcony scene and. I'm sorry but the balcony scene is just objectively crazy work. what the fuck.
Because:
Of course there's the canon hetero interpretation of "Glinda and Fiyero are getting married, and Elphaba is Fiyero's mistress" but I propose the alternative, more interesting possibilities:
1) Elphaba is married to The Cause, and Glinda is Elphaba's mistress
This is what we were discussing, and it's still so crazy to me... This feels like it kind of reflects that one line in the book where Elphaba says "I'm married, just not to a man" where it's ambiguous if she means activism or Glinda... (Which brings up Crazy Ideas in my head but we're not talking about that rn)
But also the idea that Glinda is tired of the secrecy and hiding... Wanting to be able to share their relationship with the world... Once again, Glinda getting the mistress lines is crazy because SHE'S the one who isn't ready to leave the closet what does she MEAN!!!!
But also just the usage of a traditional narrative convention but in a way to queer code characters is CRAZY!! Because now there's an implication that they're having romantic entanglements because that's what these scenes are normally about!! Like. In subverting the trope, it's like. What aspect of the typical narrative are they subverting by doing this... In the same way that What Is This Feeling subverts the typical enemies to lovers story but simultaneously reinforces that Glinda and Elphaba will fall in love with each other, this balcony scene simultaneously subverts the idea of a heterosexual encounter on the balcony, I'm sure there's more but I'm blanking... But yeah wow I can't believe that string of words left Glinda's mouth because she literally sounds like a Stereotypical Mistress in a black and white movie or something... "You never saw me, I was never here" "I can't BEAR this anymore!" if this was said in a transatlantic accent I would 100% believe this came from a Golden Age Hollywood movie
Alternatively...
2) Glinda is getting married to Fiyero (or, in other words, Big Heterosexuality), and Elphaba is Glinda's mistress
This makes the build up to the balcony scene Really Interesting... Like, Elphaba finds out Glinda is getting married and then rushes to see her, and then crashes her wedding... It's giving the same energy as a male love interest realizing he's in love with the female lead who is about to get married and rushing to interrupt the wedding... Like, door slamming open right as the officiant says "speak now or forever hold your peace"... Which once again makes Glinda saying the mistress lines CRAZY like. Wow we are doing subversions in subversions now!! But yeah Glinda is married to Big Heterosexuality and Elphaba is the mistress... Elphaba low-key embodying defying societal expectations, coming to Glinda's door begging -> also mistress begging her paramour to choose her-coded
Oh god anon youâre gonna make me do another essay Iâm so sorryâŠ..
See this is one of those beautiful asks that I donât have a whole lot to add to as far as the scene analysis itself because between this ask and this other one, likeâŠYES this EXACTLY. Youâve kind of covered everything in my brain when it comes to this scene lol, you are right on the money.
BUT! I do actually want to address one of the other points you made just about the subversion of romantic tropes in Wicked as a whole, because IâmâŠa nerd and I canât be stopped.
So. Just to start off with, the subversion of romantic tropes is always interesting to me anyway, even just to see the way audiences react - and specifically with straight audiences, you will see them fight those subversions on every front and swear up and down that theyâre anything but romantic. You see the argument all the time that the real subversion here is that the love story is Friend Love! Itâs a Friend Love Story! Donât make it Romantic, that Cheapens the Sanctity of Female Sister Friendshiphood!
Like they will work themselves into a lather insisting that the important subversion is that the love is platonic, when itâs likeâŠOkay, but the specific tropes that are being subverted are textually Romantic Tropes, not just generalized acts of love that youâd see in a story about familial love or platonic friendship. And thatâs not random happenstance, that was done for a reason.
You mentioned What Is This Feeling, and that really is the moment everyone who worked on Wicked should have just thrown in the towel and said Yeah itâs gay - though honestly not just because of the enemies to lovers vibe since thatâs still subtext - with this one in particular we can look at the text itself.
From a lyrical standpoint, the song is intentionally written to parody the insta-love songs you usually get between romantic leads in a musical, only flipping it on its head to insta-hate, which then allows for a more gradual, genuine love to build over time. So thereâs trope number one and thatâs actually a doozy of a first trope because it isnât subtext, itâs text text. And the joke of it is haha itâs insta-hate instead of insta-love, but unfortunately for Winnie Holzman and Steven Schwartz, by using the insta-love trope as the foundation this relationship is built on, theyâve already set up a romantic parallel, right from jump.Â
And thatâs hard to just erase or ignore as a one-off joke - literally the framework weâre in while these girls get to know each other mirrors that of a love song where itâs like I have these really intense feelings for you that I donât know how to define, I canât eat, canât sleep, heartâs pounding, Iâm confused, Iâm flustered, you make me feel something Iâve never felt beforeâŠThis is song number one between them, weâve known these girls for like five minutes, and the framing is that of the two leads falling hard for each other over their first few weeks at Shiz.
I donât want to turn this into too crazy of an essay where I do a beat for beat of all the romantic tropes because weâll be here forever, so Iâll just do a quick recap of some of the main ones across both movies:
-Love song framework (What Is This Feeling)
-Dancing like youâre the only two people in the room (Ozdust Duet) (goes even harder in the movie version because of how much they emphasize physical contact between them)
-Being seen and told âYouâre beautifulâ for the first time in your life / Realizing someone else is beautiful in a way that contradicts everything youâve been taught to believe (Popular)
-âPick me, choose me, love meâ (Elphabaâs Promise deleted scene)
-âDefy societyâs rules and run away with meâ (Defying Gravity)
-Window breaking in the vein of âthrow gravel at a girlâs bedroom window to get her attentionâ
-Balcony scene
-Boudoir scene
Â
-Femme Fatale tempting our hero away from her noble calling (Wonderful)
-Femme Fatale realizing she was wrong and trying to reverse the plight of the hero
-White Knight galloping into the moonlight to rescue the damsel in distress
And those are just the tropes, that doesnât even cover half of the other lovey-dovey shit they do (talkin bout whatever weird snuggling thing they were doing during Sentimental Man idek)
Point being, every last one of those tropes is very specifically a Known Romantic Trope, and when the trope youâve subverted is a Known Romantic Trope, you havenât actually de-romanticized it by putting two women in the roles typically assigned to Male Love Interest and Female Love Interest. Youâve just made it gay. A romantic trope is a romantic trope is a romantic trope.
(also side note, I think itâs fun that they play with who gets the traditional male or female roles in all of these tropes - Glinda is both Femme Fatale and White Knight, Elphaba is both Romeo at the Balcony and Damsel in DistressâŠI just think that's neat)
But you still have these swathes of straight people insisting that itâs not romantic and that the important subversion is that the love is platonic, and that by pointing out the romantic framing, us queer people are being delusional and only seeing what we want to see. When itâs likeâŠsubtext and narrative subversions like that are literally how us queer people have had to tell our stories forever, because itâs the only way we could get away with telling our stories and still have them seen by larger audiences. Thatâs not delusional or wishful thinking, itâs a literal storytelling technique that queer people have always used. Willfully ignoring the significance of those tropes being subverted is kind of justâŠbeing bad at reading.
And just as an added bonus - Okay, yes, death of the author is important, as is not seeking shipping validation from actors or creators of a work, but at the same time in this particular case, itâs been kind of moving to see things like Jon comparing the balcony scene to two lovers having an affair, or Myron saying itâs the greatest love story ever told, or Ari using the word queer in every interview she can get away with and fighting tooth and nail to keep queerness as an essential part of peopleâs reading of Wicked. Thatâs been one of the pitfalls of Wicked becoming this commercial success is that the general straight audience got a hold of it and fully refuses to acknowledge that alongside the political and social commentary, it is a love story between two women, and that the tropes weâre working with support the inherent romanticism of that relationship.
And to be clear, gelphie was never written to be a canon endgame ship. It was always going to be fiyeraba canon endgame. But that shouldnât negate the fact that the relationship between Elphaba and Glinda was romantic. People get very caught up in the concept of Canon Endgame and consider that to be the end all be all, when thatâs just really not the point of storytelling lol, like stories arenât meant to be about who won the fandom ship war. Elphaba and Glinda were never written to end up together, but when theyâre the two characters playing out every romantic trope except the awkwardly tepid onscreen sex scene that had no buildupâŠtheirs is the romance that actually sticks with you, even if it doesnât end in them running off into the sunset together (or having an onscreen makeout sesh even though Iâm still convinced there was at least one take they did where Ari went in for the smooch, I know itâs out there, I know it, Jon)
But anyway - back to your point! Balcony/boudoir scene! Mistresses! The inherent romanticism of that scene! The marriage to The Cause, and the marriage to Big Heterosexuality! Adultery is hot when itâs gelphie! Book reference! Glinda should have a transatlantic accent! Yes to all of that. Sorry I derailed from your original ask, I just got very excited about the subversions.
maybe i'm just maggie tulliver and i always take the side of the rejected lover in stories but i do think a lot of my sympathy for glinda, especially in act ii when she's at her worst (and loneliest), is that she was kind of set up for failure from the start in the sense that winnie holzman was always going to write her as the popular blonde girl for elphaba's nerdy brunette girl to take revenge on behalf of all the other nerdy brunette girls who have been spurned by men in favor of silly blonde popular girls. on one hand, glinda was written to represent the privileged and 'undeserving' in many ways, and this extends to the trope she embodies within wicked's love triangle. but on the other hand, i do think the archetype of the spurned lover is one that's easy to sympathize, especially since i think fiyero rejecting her and choosing the brunette girl over the blonde popular girl is part of the fantasy of this particular flavor of love triangles. and this often takes a particularly misogynistic bend, as it reduces women and their relations to competing for a man's love and is largely dependent on the humiliation of another woman, which is why in wicked they pause the actual plot so elphaba can smuggly rub in glinda's face that fiyero doesn't love her he loves elphaba đ . and through a semi-queer lens you can kind of read glinda as the girl that needs to get humiliated and spurned in order for fiyeraba to work, reinforcing a heterosexual social order so the het couple can have their "walk into the sunset" moment while glinda is left alone and mourning (which, yes, i know is due to her own inaction but i'm talking specifically about the trope she embodies in romance). and i think that's where i sympathize most with her--despite the fact that she does some pretty bad things over the course of the musical--because in a metatextual sense her character does, in part, exist to be humiliated and rejected in order for a straight romance to sail and so winnie can have the satisfaction of getting one over on whatever blonde girl was dating her crush in high school
Like how they take all the moments of character growth for Glinda in the book and make them the butt of the joke in the musical...
Like whoever thinks Wicked the musical takes is political plot seriously...
It's just really sad to see how they took a very complex queer relationship between Elphaba and Glinda and turned it into this heterosexual love triangle competition to humiliate Glinda. Which is ironic because regardless of it even in the musical they have always been very queer, they never were able to really get rid of the queerness of Elphaba and Glinda's relationship, but we know that, because of the narrative adjustments they made on regards to Fiyero and how they handle morality in regards to romance, it really was aiming for a more heterosexual approach made to humiliate Glinda.
Is just very sad
The love triangle is the root cause of the most tiring and frustrating Wicked related discource ever. And when you try to point out the very obvious misogynistic writing, they try to divert the conversation by saying Glinda was complicit to the fascist regime and deserves to be humiliated and die alone. But somehow Fiyero gets a pass because the narrative decides so, and the patriarchal ideas are being reinforced again.
it's frustrating because i really do think glinda ending up alone at the end of the musical is the most narratively satisfying way to end her character arc. it's not that i don't want glinda to face consequences for her role. her grief/guilt over losing elphie and her stepping up to truly be glinda the good at the end of the play because she wasn't beforehand are two of the most compelling things about her character imo. but i hate how this gets all tangled up with the love triangle bs, and i hate how part of glinda ending up alone is just the satisfaction of the nerdy unpopular girl getting picked by a guy over the pretty blonde girl who he "should" pick, but was never going to. there's this tension between glinda being alone because of her complicity and selfishness, and her being alone because she exists in an archetype where she has to be rejected and humiliated for another woman to get satisfaction that she was picked by a man over her
did u find that gelphie fic u were looking for đ i wanna know too
Not yet!! I'm still hoping though.
"but what did glinda think would happen when elphaba got captured by the gale force?" wow almost like glinda wasn't thinking in that moment. almost like she was at her absolute lowest at that moment because she felt that the two people she loved most in the world abandoned her and were actively deceiving her for years. almost like she wasn't thinking clearly and was both trying to get back at them in some way but also get them back because it's been well-established that glinda's worst fear is being alone and unloved. almost like glinda's been told her entire life her value as a person is in how much other people love her so having the two people she cares about most abandon her like that completely shatters her sense of self and self-worth. almost like it's been established that when glinda feels insecure she's prone to making split second decisions to try and re-exert some sense of control over the situation. almost like glinda often doesn't understand her own influence and privilege and has been willingly blinding herself to the violence of the system uplifting her. almost like one of the core themes of the musical is why people do wicked things and how loneliness contributes to wickedness. almost
Gelphie + Hands
Wicked | Wicked: For Good
And yetâŠđ