interstellar @interstellar--constellation - Tumblr Blog

Plural apps/Software list alternative for systems

Hello everyone,

As you can see, lots of apps and tools for systems are being discountinued, or the devs put it in hiatus. This started with Simply Plural, then Octocon, and then Amperson's hiatus. While I understand we're panicked because of those sudden news, please let's be all respectful and let's not harass the dev of the developpers.

Below the cut is the list of all apps we've found. Please keep us updated if you've found new ones that could help! We've tried our best to link all the tumblr account so you could check them!

You are welcome to correct us if we've made any mistakes on this post!!! We've done researches beforehand to check our infos, but we can't guarantee it's 100% correct!

Also we're using a lot of tag for this post catching attention of other systems to help them finding alternatives because of the shutting down of SP and Octocon! You can also find in the tags the ones they use for their apps!

interstellar--constellation

note that pocket-plurality, florality, and systemality are strongly anti-endo! the developers of asterism are also, but don't seem to mind if endos use their app.

with pk there's also pkswitcher and irys.cc

pluralspace is also pretty good, but currently it's 18+.

we're currently using constellations!

our-plural-cafe

please do more reasearch that isn't pluralpedia because you genuinely seem like the kind of pro-endo that actually has the disorder and is uneducated </3

Hi, sorry for taking months to respond. We are in fact a DID system, what are you getting at?

You can be a DID/OSDD system and accept others. I fear that's common sense.

#also can we stop acting like endogenic = non-disordered #like hi yes i'm a precurgenic/spontaneous p-did sys #we're mostly disordered because of some specific stressgenic guys #but stressgenic still falls under endogenic (can also be traumagenic it's fuzzy lol)#“endos dont have did/osdd!”#hi i'm right here i got hospitalized for it #anywayy #cw syscourse

leathersys

so... we may have made something.

have YOU ever thought like this?????? i know WE hate the current plural diagnostics!!!! so! WE MADE OUR OWN!!!!!!!

it's 50 questions long, you can receive a total of 55 points!

*Due to how Google Forms is built, your "System Percentage" is shown as your amount of correct answers. Plural systems typically get a score

we are not doctors, do not take your result as medical advice.

feel free to reblog with your result!

Please read this reblog if you have a concern about the nature of the questions!!

the-hadal-zone-sys

Y'know what?

Genuinely fuck you if you're still spreading that bullshit that plurals can't be happy and that being plural has to be all misery all the time or else you're faking!!!

I'm tired of being nice about this!! I love my headmates and I will never, EVER pretend otherwise!!

meadow-dot-7z

Syscourse is really funny if you try to imagine people saying the same things about any other mental phenomenon.

"DNI if you claim to be 'sad' without an MDD diagnosis"

"You're 'proud' of being 'self-confident'? Stop romanticizing NPD, it's a debilitating disorder for people who really have it, faker."

"Trauma is the only valid origin for psychosis, people who claim to have 'hallucinated' because of drugs or sleep deprivation are either lying or they just don't know how traumatized they are"

"Well, I developed my agoraphobia from being kidnapped and tortured THREE TIMES at the age of six, so anyone who claims they developed it later in life or from less severe trauma is faking."

introjection is just getting isekai'd send post

#actually plural #osddid #plural #plural system #did system #osdd system #plural blog #plural community #plural stuff #plural positivity #plural posting #plural things #pluralblr #pluralgang #plurality #pluralpunk

the-princes-epitaph

“dni endogenic ‘systems’ (most of you are toxic anyways)”

can you show me. can you show me examples of most of the endo community being toxic. what exactly do we do that makes “most of us” toxic?

and what’s so.. nontoxic, about denying people’s lived experiences? what’s so nontoxic about making someone’s identity a debate point? what’s so nontoxic about treating endo systems like theyre less than, because you dont like them? what’s so nontoxic about using science to determine if someone’s identity is valid? what’s so nontoxic about tags like “endos die,” “endos aren’t real,” “endos are ableist,” “endos are an invasive species”

“(pro) endos are the toxic ones!!” meanwhile you guys are telling people to kill themselves and saying they aren’t real

catboykatebush

Writing a system’s singletsona name in a Death Note but it doesn’t work and I realize I have to write down every individual headmate’s name to kill them off one by one because Death Notes are plural affirming like that

icebongle

I've been thinking about this maybe too much but whatever.

so, I don't think a lot of systems, plurals, etc. would disagree that many within their collective do not identify with their body's face.

the very first rule given about using the death note is that you need to have the victim's face in mind when you write their name. for some headmates, this might be an easy condition to fulfill. a factive might identify with their source's face*, someone else might have an image they point to and can say "this is exactly what I look like." others, though, it's not so simple.

a brainmade headmate might be able to clearly imagine their own face in their mind, but not have a good exact reference image to point to. a fictive, especially from a source where there is no solid canonical depiction of them, might differ from what others typically depict them as. yet another individual might have no appearance to speak of. in these and similar situations, unless the death note accepts approximations, then there's no way to kill them using the death note. and considering the rules surrounding misspellings? I highly doubt that to be the case.

*may result in the death of their source instead

by the way, for everyone talking about syscourse and such with me i do appreciate you all and will get back to you, i'm just a bit swamped with summatives and exam prep at the moment

interstellar--constellation

okay random post but i'm seeing a lot of syscourse today and i remembered something that's been bothering me

was talking once with an anti-endo, and they said you can only get alters through (P-)DID/OSDD. i asked for a source, and they told me to read the DSM-V.

i cannot for the life of me find where it says that, so if anyone is interested i would *really* appreciate someone pointing it out. here's a copy:

cambriancrew

I think there's a core misunderstanding going on here.

The pushback you're getting is because you're referring to them as "alters".

"Alter" is a medical term exclusively for people with dissociative disorders.

So yes, only pwCDDs can have alters.

But you can have headmates and not have a CDD.

interstellar--constellation

doesn't the term "alter" come from "alternate personality" (or variations of such)? I'm having trouble understanding why it's special- especially as someone with a CDD, who knows other systems, both disordered and not, functionally there doesn't seem to be much difference.

also, for context, in this conversation we had been talking about both general headmates and alters- additionally regardless of if "alter" is a CDD-exclusive term, i'm still asking where the DSM states that, since i find their recomendation odd.

for additional clarity, i am now asking two separate questions- one, why is "alter" exclusive/what's its origin, and two, where does the DSM say alters are exclusive?

#syscourse

interstellar--constellation

edit: alright I made another post

"DID is a trauma disorder, and endos spread harmful misinformation that you can get it without trauma!" "DID can only develop before the ages of 7-9!"

Actually, you're the one spreading misinformation! It is not a trauma disorder, it is a dissociative disorder. There's a whole separate section in both the ICD and the DSM.

Additionally, the criteria does not require trauma:

"That's because people often don't remember their trauma, or doctors won't believe them!" Sure, you could make that argument, but that's your own interpretation. Let's compare with the first criterion for an actual trauma disorder:

It wouldn't be hard to tack something like that onto the DID criteria, but it isn't there, because it isn't required. Additionally!

"Risk factor", "most commonly", "commonly associated", this is not absolute language. Not once does it use "caused by". I'll agree that the vast majority of cases of DID result from trauma, and that it's common for folks to not remember their trauma. However, it still is not a requirement.

Closing notes:

Waow, is that... non-disordered plurality?

Do you mean to say... It's not exclusive to those ≤7-9 years old? Please, folks. This is the ICD, from the World Health Organization, and the DSM, from the American Psychiatric Association. I imagine they would know more about DID than us Tumblr denizens.

plural-archivist

alright, we're doing this.

just so you know, denying the trauma basis of a disorder that is mainly caused by trauma is not really a "win" to defend non-disordered plurality against anti-endos. believe me, researchers tried to understand this too and what they proved is that the disorder is caused by trauma. it's not a coincidence that almost all cases of DID report trauma in their history.

the reason trauma is not in the diagnostic criteria is because it's very difficult to prove trauma occurred, and sometimes even unethical. most DID systems forget the trauma anyways, have trouble remembering it even happened, and even denied the evidence of trauma. that's because trauma is subjective to the person, too. also, how can you put trauma as a symptom in disorders like this? how do you prove it?

it's not an interpretation, it's been researched, it's directly the cause.

yes, DID is a dissociative disorder. and what causes dissociation? trauma, mostly. yes, a lot of people dissociate for various reasons. but it's also a trauma response, to protect the brain from horrible memories and keeping the person safe. also, dissociative disorder are a chapter directly after the chapter of traumatic disorders.

also, it doesn't use absolute language because of nuance. it varies from person to person. I've written many research papers in my life, and it's nearly impossible to prove something 100%. because something like a mental disorder can't be proven 100%. it's literally impossible.

interstellar--constellation

to be clear, i am not trying to deny that DID mostly results from trauma- it absolutely does. i am simply saying it is not a requirement. my goal in this is to point that out.

and again, as i mentioned, if it's not in there solely because it's hard to prove, then why is it in the PTSD criteria?

i'm not saying that trauma doesn't cause dissociation, but as you've said, it is not the only cause of dissociation. again, i'm not trying to say that DID doesn't result from trauma, only that it doesn't exclusively result from trauma.

i understand that it doesn't use absolute language because that can't be proven, but that's my point- we can't prove that it's only caused by trauma, because there can always be an exception. so why are we invalidating the exceptions based on the majority? if something is caused 99.9% of the time by one thing, then there is indeed a very strong correlation, but the other 0.1% still exists, and should not be invalidated by this.

another thing worth noting is that these are labels. dissociative identity disorder, the label, does not require trauma. however, we could split it into two separate disorders, where one requires trauma and the other doesn't. i'm not saying we should do that, but the DID criteria does not include trauma, so DID does not require trauma. this does not mean that the other symptoms can or can't happen without trauma, but for it to be called DID trauma is not needed. now, our understanding of things is constantly evolving, take Asperger's as an example- but as it stands, we should not invalidate individuals based on a requirement that doesn't exist.

#tw syscourse #cw syscourse #syscourse #this is all /gen by the way i'm happy we're talking about this #i love being told i'm wrong but i don't usually come off that way #i'm arguing with the first things i think of not because they're infallible but because i thought of them and i want to know why they are o #aren't wrong

pinacae

We use the term “plural” because it sounds better than “multiple” and also because stealing from endos is good

interstellar--constellation

anti-endos: calling yourselves systems is harmful find your own term

endos: okay sure

anti-endos: mine now fuck you

sighs. not all anti-endos do this, i'm just a bit frustrated. especially over this:

anti-endos: endos are invading our spaces!

also anti-endos:

dude. we are just trying to exist. not even getting into the number of folks that have trauma from anti-endo spaces and could be triggered by this sort of post- what is your problem? genuinely. anti-endos always seem to think we're ableist, but even if we were, does that suddenly mean we deserve to be triggered, and attacked, and have our spaces invaded?

tl;dr if you're gonna post about being anti-endo at least be anti-harassment + tag your stuff

sinergypilled

If you fake a serious disorder like DID, then yes, you SHOULD be attacked and have your ableist "spaces" invaded!

interstellar--constellation

so actually, faking DID and being an endogenic system are completely different things! most endos don't claim DID, and the ones that do, do so because they experience the things that DID causes, e.g. the symptoms, e.g. the only actual diagnostic criteria (which does not include trauma)

if an endo is faking DID, that is a problem. but it's a problem because they're faking DID, not because they're existing as a system.

and, uh. if you think attacking people because of their existence/opinions is okay then I think that makes you the ableist one, actually. if you don't agree with them, stay away from them! you can do that! but harassment is never okay, in fact, it's illegal.

i don't think anyone should have their spaces invaded. I think there should be someone making sure they aren't stuck in an echo chamber, and if they're hurting someone (by which I mean actually hurting. not saying that they exist) that's an issue, but it's not an issue solely because of those spaces and invading to attack them will not solve it.

sinergypilled

"Endos don't claim to have DID" yeah, ofc, they just claim to have the exact same symptoms, but with no trauma! Obviously not DID! /sarc

Jfc you GENUINELY have a 0 in your intelligence stat.

And, yes, Trauma IS part of the criteria. Read a book, and not some blog post ;P

Also, if your points were valid (they aren't), you should take your advice and not interact!

Oh, also, if we should just ignore ableists, should we also ignore racists? Should we ignore others that cause suffering? Or is that only valid when used against people you actually like, considering you're obviously faking being anti-endo lol.

interstellar--constellation

Here's the DSM and here's the ICD. Show me where in the criteria it lists trauma- I'll wait.

And actually, having alters doesn't mean DID! DID involves more than just that, if we take a look at the criteria. However, if an endo meets that criteria (which doesn't include trauma), then what's the issue with them saying they have it? Also note how I said most endos, not all endos.

Also, there is a difference here. I am tagging my posts with the syscourse tags, and I am responding to someone else, rather than intentionally spreading hate. If someone says something, I am allowed to respond. If I am hateful in my response, that is an issue, but I don't think I am. If I'm triggering anyone, please tell me, so I can adjust my future actions.

When did I say to ignore ableists and racists? I'm saying not to attack or harass them. If they are being hateful, if they are actively harming others- congratulations, the law is on your side. If someone expresses racist sentiments- that's hate speech! You can have something done about it. But, take an example-

At a school, there is a club for kids to be racist. This is an issue, so what do you do? I would go talk to staff or police about it, because that is against the law. What I wouldn't do is walk in there, start shouting at everyone, attack them, and invade their spaces so they don't feel safe anywhere. That won't convince them to change, either. No one should be doing hate speech, but even if they do, that doesn't make it okay to assault them. Not assaulting them, however, is not the same as just letting them be openly racist.

To be clear- When I talk about discrimination, I am not comparing it to endos. Anti-endos do so, and as such I am using the "ableist" straw man. I do not believe endos are ableist, though I'm sure there are individual endos who are.

When did I claim to be anti-endo 😭 I'm trying to talk without letting my opinions cloud my words too much, but take one look at my blog and it should be pretty clear I'm pro-endo. Do you want to know the way I see it? Anti-endos are bigots, because you're looking at people and just denying their existence. How is "endos are roleplaying DID" any different from "trans women just want to invade women's washrooms"? How is saying "you can only be plural through DID/OSDD, otherwise you're faking and hurting real systems" any different from "you're only trans if you have gender dysphoria, and otherwise you're appropriating a medical disorder"? Take a step back for a moment. The endo side of things is literally just "we exist". But that's not really what we're talking about here.

Oh, also random add-on, I have a 98th percentile IQ (found from a psych-educational assessment). That doesn't make me better or smarter than anyone else, but it should help disprove your claim of me having "a 0 in [my] intelligence stat".

#tw anti endo #tw syscourse #cw syscourse #there is more for me to say here based on stuff i'm getting separately #but this person is not trying to listen so they aren't worth the effort #should they want an actual and respectful debate though i'll try harder

Alright, based on the responses to this post, and having read this post, I’ve refined my arguments.

What is DID, exactly? I understand it to essentially be 1. The presence of alters, 2. Dissociative amnesia between alters, and 3. These symptoms cause clinically significant distress. Diagnostic criteria agrees with this.

So, non-traumagenic DID. It’s been explained that “associated” is the strongest language we will get in this field- however, it still isn’t absolute language, so we should not use it to exclude people. If someone has the three symptoms outlined above, I could care less whether it was caused by trauma, but that’s an opinion.

Take a hypothetical. Hypothetically, someone has those three things, but absolutely no trauma. Our basis for “DID is caused by trauma”, as shown in the posts, seems to amount to “We can’t replicate it without trauma.” This is fine; but what if it was replicated without trauma? Does that person have DID, or not? They meet all the criteria, and what else would you call it?

Similarly, take a strawman system. This system has headmates, but no amnesia. This system does not have DID, because dissociative amnesia is a diagnostic requirement. You can tell someone that they’re using the wrong terms without telling them that they’re faking due to their origin.

An argument I see a lot is “endos water DID down to ‘people in my head disorder’”. To a degree, I would say, it is “people in my head disorder”- I see it as “people in my head with amnesia barriers and part or all of this causes problems disorder”. If any* of that does not apply, then we are not talking about DID. Do endos say systemhood is “people in my head”? Yes- though, there is nuance. DID and systemhood, however, are not the same and should not be treated as such.

Something that bothered me in one of the posts I saw was the statement “Arguing against the trauma basis of DID isn't supporting endogenic systems, it's arguing against the reality of DID being a real disorder.” Does DID have to come from trauma in order to be a disorder? I don’t think so, and its origin should not affect whether we treat it as such. If it is distressing, then it is a disorder. If all disorders had to be caused by trauma, that would invalidate a lot of current research.

Another comment I take issue with is “But importantly the treatment for CDDs is trauma work.” For many, it is, I will not try to say otherwise. But for me, it isn’t. My treatment is facilitating better internal communication, so we can all work together and not hurt each other. We don’t need trauma work, because that is not the part of our CDD that is an issue.

I am sure this will not be my last statement on this matter, as I imagine I will get many more responses. I welcome this! Please, educate me.

#cw syscourse #tw syscourse #syscourse #actually plural #osddid #plural #plural system #systemhood #sysblr #osdd system #actually a system #did system #dissociative system #sys blog #system #system community #sysposting #system stuff

interstellar--constellation

"DID is a trauma disorder, and endos spread harmful misinformation that you can get it without trauma!" "DID can only develop before the ages of 7-9!"

Actually, you're the one spreading misinformation! It is not a trauma disorder, it is a dissociative disorder. There's a whole separate section in both the ICD and the DSM.

Additionally, the criteria does not require trauma:

"That's because people often don't remember their trauma, or doctors won't believe them!" Sure, you could make that argument, but that's your own interpretation. Let's compare with the first criterion for an actual trauma disorder:

It wouldn't be hard to tack something like that onto the DID criteria, but it isn't there, because it isn't required. Additionally!

"Risk factor", "most commonly", "commonly associated", this is not absolute language. Not once does it use "caused by". I'll agree that the vast majority of cases of DID result from trauma, and that it's common for folks to not remember their trauma. However, it still is not a requirement.

Closing notes:

Waow, is that... non-disordered plurality?

Do you mean to say... It's not exclusive to those ≤7-9 years old? Please, folks. This is the ICD, from the World Health Organization, and the DSM, from the American Psychiatric Association. I imagine they would know more about DID than us Tumblr denizens.

sour-not-sweet

Hey, I get what you are trying to do, but this is still misinformation with how you are presenting it.

Before I go through the effort of gathering links to different discussions going over the reasons for these points, would you be interested in reading them?

interstellar--constellation

yeah. of course!

edit: alright I made another post

"DID is a trauma disorder, and endos spread harmful misinformation that you can get it without trauma!" "DID can only develop before the ages of 7-9!"

Actually, you're the one spreading misinformation! It is not a trauma disorder, it is a dissociative disorder. There's a whole separate section in both the ICD and the DSM.

Additionally, the criteria does not require trauma:

"That's because people often don't remember their trauma, or doctors won't believe them!" Sure, you could make that argument, but that's your own interpretation. Let's compare with the first criterion for an actual trauma disorder:

It wouldn't be hard to tack something like that onto the DID criteria, but it isn't there, because it isn't required. Additionally!

"Risk factor", "most commonly", "commonly associated", this is not absolute language. Not once does it use "caused by". I'll agree that the vast majority of cases of DID result from trauma, and that it's common for folks to not remember their trauma. However, it still is not a requirement.

Closing notes:

Waow, is that... non-disordered plurality?

Do you mean to say... It's not exclusive to those ≤7-9 years old? Please, folks. This is the ICD, from the World Health Organization, and the DSM, from the American Psychiatric Association. I imagine they would know more about DID than us Tumblr denizens.

#syscourse #tw syscourse #cw syscourse #actually plural #osddid #plural #plural system #systemhood #system #sysblr #did system #osdd system #system community #traumagenic system #sysposting

pinacae

We use the term “plural” because it sounds better than “multiple” and also because stealing from endos is good

interstellar--constellation

anti-endos: calling yourselves systems is harmful find your own term

endos: okay sure

anti-endos: mine now fuck you

sighs. not all anti-endos do this, i'm just a bit frustrated. especially over this:

anti-endos: endos are invading our spaces!

also anti-endos:

dude. we are just trying to exist. not even getting into the number of folks that have trauma from anti-endo spaces and could be triggered by this sort of post- what is your problem? genuinely. anti-endos always seem to think we're ableist, but even if we were, does that suddenly mean we deserve to be triggered, and attacked, and have our spaces invaded?

tl;dr if you're gonna post about being anti-endo at least be anti-harassment + tag your stuff

sinergypilled

If you fake a serious disorder like DID, then yes, you SHOULD be attacked and have your ableist "spaces" invaded!

interstellar--constellation

so actually, faking DID and being an endogenic system are completely different things! most endos don't claim DID, and the ones that do, do so because they experience the things that DID causes, e.g. the symptoms, e.g. the only actual diagnostic criteria (which does not include trauma)

if an endo is faking DID, that is a problem. but it's a problem because they're faking DID, not because they're existing as a system.

and, uh. if you think attacking people because of their existence/opinions is okay then I think that makes you the ableist one, actually. if you don't agree with them, stay away from them! you can do that! but harassment is never okay, in fact, it's illegal.

i don't think anyone should have their spaces invaded. I think there should be someone making sure they aren't stuck in an echo chamber, and if they're hurting someone (by which I mean actually hurting. not saying that they exist) that's an issue, but it's not an issue solely because of those spaces and invading to attack them will not solve it.

#this goes both ways #if you are pro-endo and pro-harassment my blog is not a safe space for you #tw syscourse #cw syscourse #tw anti endo

pinacae

We use the term “plural” because it sounds better than “multiple” and also because stealing from endos is good

interstellar--constellation

anti-endos: calling yourselves systems is harmful find your own term

endos: okay sure

anti-endos: mine now fuck you

sighs. not all anti-endos do this, i'm just a bit frustrated. especially over this:

anti-endos: endos are invading our spaces!

also anti-endos:

dude. we are just trying to exist. not even getting into the number of folks that have trauma from anti-endo spaces and could be triggered by this sort of post- what is your problem? genuinely. anti-endos always seem to think we're ableist, but even if we were, does that suddenly mean we deserve to be triggered, and attacked, and have our spaces invaded?

tl;dr if you're gonna post about being anti-endo at least be anti-harassment + tag your stuff

pinacae

We think that endos DESERVE to feel bad actually!

interstellar--constellation

that says a lot about the sort of person you are, I think... just because someone exists in a way you don't agree with doesn't mean they deserve to be triggered

for me, this applies to everyone- for example, I hate bigots and don't want them around me, but they still don't deserve to be triggered, they're people like the rest of us. does this mean I have to go along with their logic? no, and I can avoid them as much as I want, but that doesn't make it okay to hurt or trigger them. if you think it does, then I fear you are the ableist one.

#tw syscourse #cw syscourse #tw anti endo #to my followers:#ignore me lol I love arguing with folks online #if I should make a tag for that though lmk

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