#endogenic systems

[starlight-chickens]

blessing of being plural : if you can't handle something someone else might front and be better at it

curse of being plural : if you can't handle something someone else might front and be even worse at it

[mildly-inconvenient-plur-is]

WHAT is happening with simplyplural???? -🃏

⚠️Please reblog this version and not the previous one.⚠️

Simply Plural will be discontinued. (link to blog post.)

the dev is keeping the servers up for now, at least until June 2026, potentially longer if money allows it. however, they are stopping active development of the app for their own sake.

if you want replacement apps or things :

- Octocon (I've heard it was anti-endogenic in the past[?]). has an app and is online, but might(?) be locked behind a discord account. don't take my word for it, I did not research this app at all.

- Ampersand (Android only). Fully offline, so no friends features. otherwise similar to Simply Plural. Markdown supported. You can load most of your SP information on it using SP's export feature. I've been told it has a desktop app?

- Pluralkit. Requires(?) a discord account, but is online and has a website dashboard. no custom fields and a 1000 max characters description. Markdown supported.

- Tupperbox. A less advanced proxy bot for discord. I don't know much about this one.

- Any sort of notes app or physical journals. well. you can customise these as you wish, so. cool stuff. (if you're not bothered by very short character limits, Twinote is interesting.)

It is worth noting that SP's discontinuation, while being in effect, doesn't mean that the servers are going to be down tomorrow. you have time to change your habits and transfer your information to other means of tracking. -Anon

[the-otherspace]

While I love to point out that endogenic systems are supported by the medical community, I don't think it matters. Plenty of medical professionals won't allow nonbinary people access to hormones because their view of transness is very binarist. But nonbinary people are still valid just the same.

What matters most are people's real lives experiences. That's proof enough.

[cambriancrew]

It's strange to me that people think that endogenics have an unclear understanding of who they are. I'm very clear on who I am. I've been the same me for 35+ years. So have the other Willows. The rest of our Crew have been themselves for the decades they've been with us. That's one of the things that makes us very clearly a system: we're many very distinct, independent people.

We Willows can look back at any of our memories and recognize which of us was doing what. We remember the arguments we used to have, and the spirited debates over values and what to be when we grew up etc. We remember jostling for control, and struggling with things like personality tests: are we introverted or extraverted? What kinds of things do we value most? What do we most want? Those answers changed based on which of us took the test, which, depending on the length of the test, could have several of us answering at different points in the test. But if we focused on just one of us answering at a time, the answers were very consistent and persistent.

We weren't all four of us equally present in our life. Crystal, who did most of school, homework, and our main hobby of reading, handled somewhere between half and three quarters of our life between age 10 and 28-ish. But the rest of us were still there. Still took time fronting. Still wrestled together with important aspects of our life.

Embracing our plurality has actually increased our clarity on who we are. We understand ourselves and each other better. When we have mixed emotions about a thing, we aren't dividing them up by "parts" - mixing our individual parts up with each other as "parts". Rather it's easier to recognize things as, this emotion comes from part of me and this other comes from this other part of me, but this other tangle of emotions comes from this other Willow who isn't me, and this is why those emotions are present etc.

And each of us Crew has, historically, had an easier time figuring out things about each other than about our individual selves. Being able to really clearly describe objectively what each of us sees in ourselves only subjectively, has helped a lot with our personal growth and healing.

Which isn't to say it's easy, or that we're anywhere near "done" healing and growing. But it's easier, and we've all done a lot. And that's only been possible in the breadth and depth that it has been, due to our clear understanding of ourselves as plural.

One of the reasons parts work helps so much in people with CPTSD and IFS is that, by accurately describing a part, you begin to better understand why they are the way they are. And that better understanding leads to better and more positive communication which leads to better inner changes towards healthier patterns of belief and behaviors, which leads to personal growth.

We're not making up fake personalities and therefore confusing who we really are. (And even those people who do make up fake personalities aren't typically confusing who they are: look at actors who do that for a living.)

We're accurately describing our interior workings, and therefore understanding ourselves better, and becoming more fully our best selves.

=====

Sorry for how disjointed this is, we had a lot of thoughts together on this, though Crystal took point on writing it for the most part.

[z0mb1eluvju1ceagainstendos]

i and almost every programmed system i know have been told we’re endo either directly because of the torture based conditioning we experienced as children or because of the symptoms of said torture based conditioning …

genuinely i think the endo community’s weird obsession with programmed systems is this bizarre form of jealousy that like. they think programmed systems are universally validated and accepted for their trauma and mental illness because it’s “bad enough” in a way they feel entitled too. which it isn’t even true, endos get treated better than programming/RAMCOA survivors and CDD systems as a whole because they are not mentally ill or trauma survivors so they have the privilege of being free from that discrimination. they also fail to understand that having “worse” problems makes getting help harder for a number of reasons including doctors literally not knowing what to do with organized abuse survivors. 

i’ve literally heard endos say stuff like “systems with x type of trauma are lucky because people think they’re valid” 🫩

there are a lot of rlly shitty things they frequently say about programmed systems and/or RAMCOA survivors. the most common i’ve seen is using us to try to prove you can be endogenic … because apparently being deliberately tortured by a high control group at a very young age with the goal of training you to behave in a specific way (usually because it makes you easier to further torture) is the same as deciding to make some imaginary friends one day? like they deadass take “my traffickers would intentionally trigger dissociation so they could take advantage of my brian’s coping mechanisms” as proof that you can decide to be a system whenever you want.

for me i was also convinced i was “mixed origin” and “protogenic” by endo systems when i was like 14 because of programmed alter splits & internal handlers programming alters and the fact that my trauma started when i was a baby so “it has been happening for as long as i can remember so i must have been born a system”. for me at the time i was mostly safe from my abusers but i know people who were taught stuff like that while actively being trafficked or in a cult that was taking advantage of the fact they were a system.

they convinced me that my trauma wasn’t bad enough to have DID and that i didn’t have amnesia (i had debilitating amnesia). i was also taught that my system would never act in a way that hurt me and shamed for being a toxic/selfish host when i reacted in unhealthy ways because of programming or like was hostile to internal handlers who think it’s best that we do whatever our abusers want.

this didn’t just happen to me like i said it’s insanely common among other programmed systems i know. polyfragmented DID especially programmed HC-DID presents in unconventional ways and a lot of things common in CDID systems have been appropriated by endos, such as not knowing when or why splits happened, not remembering trauma, having symptoms since a very young age, having lots of alters with a complex inner structure, even having alters that “make alters” which ppl will insist makes you mixed origin but it is not unheard of for alters to represent in system functions that you cannot really control, like an alter representing how your subconscious splits alters by physically cloning them in headspace.

sometimes i genuinely feel like some endos are intentionally grooming young trauma survivors. not all, i don’t want to make such heavy accusations towards the whole endo community even tho i don’t like them because i think the majority are just ignorant and ableist or children being manipulated, but they definitely have a hatred for victims of trafficking, cults, and other organized child abuser groups. generally they do not like PTSD survivors and other mentally ill people which is not surprising considering their origins but it is annoying when they claim to not be ableist or hateful towards victims.

You described perfectly some of my thoughts on endos and how they treat some parts of the CDD community. And i agree. How people treat ramcoa/programmed systems WORSE compared to people who dont even know what a system is is genuinely heartbreaking. All endos do is discredit the disorder when it's hard enough as is getting help or people that believe and support you alone. Thank you for sharing.

[sweetpea67]

Normally I stay out of syscourse (because I’m a singlet and very unfamiliar with plurality), but as someone with a deep interest in psychopathology I find it extremely funny that there are people who think they can say with 100% certainty that DID has been conclusively proven to solely be caused by trauma. DID is extremely under-researched and little-known, despite being about 1.5% of the population. Basically no practitioners are trained to identify it. And while the trauma model is currently the best accepted theory, this is far from settled.* The DSM-5TR lists trauma as a “risk factor” for DID, not a conclusive statement that the two are always linked. And since most endogenic systems don’t even claim to have DID, your argument isn’t even that good—it’s literally just “it is IMPOSSIBLE for the brain to do X unless Y has happened to you”…and given how complicated and weird the human brain is I’m going to call bullshit on that.

*yes, there’s a lot of bullshit swirling around in here and elsewhere about “social contagion” but the point I’m trying to make is that it’s dishonest to claim psychology is 100% sold on the traumagenic-only model

[defendsbadfictionalpeople]

Hellooooo people with multiple tulpas/willogenic systems! I already have my first tulpa, Tave, and she's great. But we've both been thinking about trying to get another tulpa.

How did you guys do it? Tips?